Sportingnews has Doc #1
- Thread starter ohio herd
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Here is the article:
http://www.sportingnews.com/list/46...holliday-david-bailiff-skip-holtz-larry-coker
http://www.sportingnews.com/list/46...holliday-david-bailiff-skip-holtz-larry-coker
Being rated by Sporting News as the #1 coach in CUSA doesn't mean you are a great coach. We were the conference champ for the first time last year; so who were they going to rate ahead of Doc as the CUSA coach "getting it done"?
Nice recognition for Doc within the conference but let's not get ahead of ourselves. I doubt the rest of the country even noticed this story let alone consider Doc one of the best coaches in the country.
Just curious, was Bob Pruitt a great coach or average since he coached in the MAC?
There are only a handful of college coaches I would call great. Pruett was closer to that designation than is Doc though. Pruett dominated the MAC after taking a team from the IAA division to IA. Doc has not dominated CUSA (hopefully last year is the start of that) and hasn't beaten anyone really noteworthy yet. Doc has made coaching decisions that lost us games we should have won (WVU, UCF, etc.). Even last year in our only loss we came out and played an empty backfield the first few possessions against a team we should have been concerned about keeping the ball out of their offenses hands.
BP also took over a team loaded with talent. Doc took over a train wreck and has turned us back into a top 25 team again. For the record, as good as BP was he had his share of mishaps.Remember the Akron game in 2004? I think the sky is the limit for Doc.I am not sure what your definition of having a quality coach is, but I will take Doc whether he is great, good or average in your book.
BP was maybe the 2nd best CFB coach in America. Coach Holliday is not. But Coach Holliday IS the right fit for our Herd at this point. He is not the best at game management, but Doc has been really good at establishing a FB culture out of the chaos of MS.
I appreciate Pruett as much as anybody, and more than a lot of people. That's a somewhat... Lofty assessment of him I think.
Matt Hayes just ranked all 128 Division 1 football coaches. Doc was ranked No.68 which puts him near the top of the bottom half of all coaches.
Well Matt Hayes is clueless. I am not sure where he would rank but he would have to be in the top 50. Personally, I would rank him closer to top 40, only because of his length of time. I believe he will eventually get the respect he deserves. Only way to get it is to keep on winning IMO.
He also has coach dude at #51(WVU) that ranking alone should cast doubt on the entire articl. Doc over coach dude any day!
You are clueless, there is a Hell of a lot more to being a Head Coach than in game coaching decisions, and hhe has greatly improved in that area as well.
The quitter was handed the keys to a corvette, Doc was handed the keys to a hoptie. And to say Pruitt was the second best coach in America is hilarious!!!!!!!!!!
The quitter as I refer to him got out once the losses started to add up with his players, he quit recruiting, he quit disciplining, and he flat out quit caring. Snyder was handed a team that lacked discipline and talent and was too much of a nice guy to change anything
The quitter as I refer to him got out once the losses started to add up with his players, he quit recruiting, he quit disciplining, and he flat out quit caring. Snyder was handed a team that lacked discipline and talent and was too much of a nice guy to change anything
Pruett had a great team he inherited...FCS national champions...twice. Doc did not. Doc had a team who hadn't won in a decade.
Doc has also given Marshall a much better level of talent than Pruett did. Pruett also made some huge head coaching blunders, I recall one in particular at ohio state, faking the punt or whatever it was...boneheaded call that ultimately cost us in the end.
Not to say Doc is not without his coaching faults either, but to say Pruett is squeaky clean and perfect, is a grossly inaccurate thing to say.
Pruett will never have my respect once he left the cupboard bone dry and ditched the team he helped get to the top. If Doc is leaving Marshall in the future, at least he has us in a good standing.
Doc should be ranked higher on that list.
Doc has also given Marshall a much better level of talent than Pruett did. Pruett also made some huge head coaching blunders, I recall one in particular at ohio state, faking the punt or whatever it was...boneheaded call that ultimately cost us in the end.
Not to say Doc is not without his coaching faults either, but to say Pruett is squeaky clean and perfect, is a grossly inaccurate thing to say.
Pruett will never have my respect once he left the cupboard bone dry and ditched the team he helped get to the top. If Doc is leaving Marshall in the future, at least he has us in a good standing.
Doc should be ranked higher on that list.
I hate threads like this.
I love Doc I think he has developed into a great coach. The talent he is bringing in is unparalleled to what we have seen in the past. His game day coaching is miles ahead of where it was and is getting better. He has hired some great assistants too. I actually think if he stays a few more years he will go down as the best we have ever had including Donnan and Pruett.
To you Pruett bashers and yes herd fever we all know you don't like Pruett you say the same bullsh1t in every thread that Pruett is mentioned. Well guess what I see of you on this board I don't like you or at least your internet persona but I understand this is a message board and everyone is entitled to their opinion so the majority of times when you post in a thread it kills it for me.
We were very fortunate to have 2 HOF coaches in a row at Marshall. Donnan took us to great heights and Pruett took it even further. The Internet is a great place to continue to spout bullsh1t long enough and it gets accepted as gospel. The Pruett inherited all this talent is true because he developed them! These guys were IAA recruits. We weren't stealing guys from Bama or Ohio State. We were recruiting guys against Furman and Appalachain State. Yes they had talent but to act like Pruett walked into a roster that without development was a top 25 team is laughable.
Pennington went from having hardly any scholarship offers, and none from IA schools, to a first round NFL draft pick. Nobody wanted Leftwich as a QB except Pruett, they wanted him to be a TE, and he went on to be a first round NFL pick as a QB. The list goes on and on. To act like Pruett wasn't a great coach is just being a hater for haters sake. Yes he had flaws, and I didn't like the timing of when he left, but he took us to great heights and he loves Marshall University. Pruett did and still does more for this University than all of his haters combined.
These threads are stupid because every time one comes up herd fans decide who they support and feel the need to bash the other guy.
The truth is Pruett was great, Doc is great and getting even greater. How about appreciating the fact we have had some great coaches roaming the sidelines including the guy roaming them now in Huntington and just enjoy it.
I love Doc I think he has developed into a great coach. The talent he is bringing in is unparalleled to what we have seen in the past. His game day coaching is miles ahead of where it was and is getting better. He has hired some great assistants too. I actually think if he stays a few more years he will go down as the best we have ever had including Donnan and Pruett.
To you Pruett bashers and yes herd fever we all know you don't like Pruett you say the same bullsh1t in every thread that Pruett is mentioned. Well guess what I see of you on this board I don't like you or at least your internet persona but I understand this is a message board and everyone is entitled to their opinion so the majority of times when you post in a thread it kills it for me.
We were very fortunate to have 2 HOF coaches in a row at Marshall. Donnan took us to great heights and Pruett took it even further. The Internet is a great place to continue to spout bullsh1t long enough and it gets accepted as gospel. The Pruett inherited all this talent is true because he developed them! These guys were IAA recruits. We weren't stealing guys from Bama or Ohio State. We were recruiting guys against Furman and Appalachain State. Yes they had talent but to act like Pruett walked into a roster that without development was a top 25 team is laughable.
Pennington went from having hardly any scholarship offers, and none from IA schools, to a first round NFL draft pick. Nobody wanted Leftwich as a QB except Pruett, they wanted him to be a TE, and he went on to be a first round NFL pick as a QB. The list goes on and on. To act like Pruett wasn't a great coach is just being a hater for haters sake. Yes he had flaws, and I didn't like the timing of when he left, but he took us to great heights and he loves Marshall University. Pruett did and still does more for this University than all of his haters combined.
These threads are stupid because every time one comes up herd fans decide who they support and feel the need to bash the other guy.
The truth is Pruett was great, Doc is great and getting even greater. How about appreciating the fact we have had some great coaches roaming the sidelines including the guy roaming them now in Huntington and just enjoy it.
You guys let me know about all the talent we have that even comes close to Sciullo, Max Yates, Rogers Beckett.....
I don't even need to go further than those 3. We haven't had players like those 3 in at least 13/14 years.
Pruett and Doc are not comparable, different era different game. Docs legacy is still being written and ol' Bobby jumped ship--because the administration was shit at the time and never fulfilled the needs of the staff or Pruett...no IPF, no nothing. Do you folks not remember the issues between Pruett and he who needs not be mentioned?
I don't even need to go further than those 3. We haven't had players like those 3 in at least 13/14 years.
Pruett and Doc are not comparable, different era different game. Docs legacy is still being written and ol' Bobby jumped ship--because the administration was shit at the time and never fulfilled the needs of the staff or Pruett...no IPF, no nothing. Do you folks not remember the issues between Pruett and he who needs not be mentioned?
I'm not sure what I said that would make you think I'm clueless PD. In fact I agree with everything you said after "You are clueless". I wasn't saying Pruett was a great coach. Neither he or Doc are great coaches! But Pruett accomplished more here than Doc has thus far.
And to those that keep talking about the superiority of Doc's recruits over those Donnan and Pruett brought here I would ask you to consider how Doc's recruits are viewed by NFL draft experts as compared to those brought here by Donnan and Pruett. We may have more depth now than before but we don't have the NFL quality players now that we had under Donnan or Pruett. To be honest, I really haven't seen the player development under Doc that I saw under Pruett. In fact the most talented recruits seem to digress a little or leave (many because of character problems).
Ok, so assuming for the sake of discussion Pruett was handed a cadillac and that's the reason for much of his success. Then let's see, now that Doc has the best talent at Marshall ever, if he can duplicate the success of Pruett. And for the sake of this discussion we will assume that the MAC during Pruetts tenure was a lesser conference than CUSA now. So we will call Doc's best talent ever and the MAC being a weaker conference as a wash. With this last football season as a starting point let's see if he can lead us to a conference championship 4 of the next 5 years, go to a bowl game all 5 years and win 4 of them, and have us ranked in the top 25 at the end of the season in 2 of those 5 years. When he's done those things, then we can put him at the same level as Pruett, but not before.
Nope, the power ratings show that CUSA is a little stronger overall, and CUSA should improve dramatically the next few years as some of the young programs improve.
There's one thing wrong with this...
It's much more difficult to move up in rankings now than it was when Pruett was here. All Marshall needed to do was win...and they did under Bob, who got us into the top 10 nationally. Doc did the same thing and we were hard pressed to make the top 25...and really, both conferences are somewhat comparable...I'd give C-USA a slight edge...VERY slight. The new conference re-alignment sucked but we made do with what we had...especially when you compare to the present MAC...whom Marshall murdered in the bowl game.
I think it depends on what "rankings" you're talking about. The CFP Rankings or the AP rankings?
I propose we use the same rankings now as we did when BP was coaching. AP and coaches poll.
Sadly the CFP rankings matter most now...and they are going to be hard to advance in.
It doesn't matter. The AP and Coaches poll still exist. We use them.
I'll repeat: "With this last football season as a starting point let's see if he can lead us to a conference championship 4 of the next 5 years, go to a bowl game all 5 years and win 4 of them, and have us ranked in the top 25 at the end of the season in 2 of those 5 years. When he's done those things, then we can put him at the same level as Pruett, but not before."
The benchmark has been set by Pruett. Either Doc matches or exceeds the benchmark or he does not. It's a fair way to compare the 2 coaches. No excuses.
Holiday has always been a great recruiter, and he's gotten a lot better as a coach.. but as far as coaching alone, I'd still take Pruett over him without hesitation.
No you want to use them for your own argument. The coaches poll and AP poll is irrelevant nowadays
Let's see the last 2 years 1-1 in conference championship games with 2 dominate Bowl victories, I guess he is on pace.
Look once again Pruett was handed a championship caliber team that had 1A talent already on the roster. Doc was handed a program that was worse then shit. A team filled with descent, thieves, people that didn't care about football or Marshall, no leadership, no drive, potheads, gamblers, and alcoholics, team cliques and no team unity, and a place where losing was accepted in the locker room. Pruett just had to keep the machine oiled, while Doc had to refurbish the whole damn program.
I'm just going to guess you didn't watch college football last year, I mean you went missing the entire season unless it was to bash Doc or bash certain moments of games. Never was you around when things was going good
Look I understand that Pruett has some loyal fans here but fact of the matter is he quit right before spring practice and there is no excuse for that. Let that be one of our star players quitting right before spring practice and they will be shamed from Marshall forever
And if you want to see the impact of him quitting look at the recruiting classes from 2002-2005 there is more busts, academic failures, or just flat out noshows then players when actually made any sort of impact. That's quitting. Allowing the team to act how they did during the 2004 season off the field then behaving how they did during the bowl game with no discipline is quitting.
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