What is the aversion to our athletic dept/marketing using the state outline incorporated in the logo? I don't really get this. So many people/potential students wonder where Marshall is located. I really think this should be used in some of our logos we use. I think we should use it in our field and court logo as well. When we are on TV it shows and reminds folks where we are. There is a reason why the t shirt company "the home t" is so popular and was on Shark Tank. The guy makes his money off of state logos on tshirts. People are proud of their state and WV folks especially are proud of their state but Marshall doesn't give people the option to represent their state in a logo. If they put this in a couple shirt designs it would be one of the top selling shirts.
State outline in our logo
- Thread starter Herdon2
- Start date
MU has come and gone with state outlines. Popular in the late 60s, late 80s-early 90s.
Rather than say "they" say "I". Call up the Colligate Licensing agency and submit your proposal and pay your royalty and have at it. I hope you make a million.
Rather than say "they" say "I". Call up the Colligate Licensing agency and submit your proposal and pay your royalty and have at it. I hope you make a million.
Agree. I have no problem in having it but I think it means very little, As for me, I'm not a rah-rah WV person. Yes, I was born here, actually the first 3 days of my life were in Ohio. I moved from here for about 20 years and never thought a thing about it except it was a further trip to see Herd games.
We had it on the flag for at least the Motor City Bowl versus Cincy, because someone asked my dad and I where Marshall was located so we just pointed at the flag.
I don't think it needs to be on the official logo though. Somebody making tshirts with the whole thing is enough.
I don't think it needs to be on the official logo though. Somebody making tshirts with the whole thing is enough.
We are a regional school drawing very heavily from eastern KY and southern OH. Maybe that is a factor?
... located within a distance that can reasonably be measured in feet from Ohio...
And? MU is the closest of the state two legitimate universities for 75% of the state's population and has more state residents attending it than any other. Yeah, its close to Ohio and Kentucky. Just like the homes of most people in WV are.
but if we try to survive with WV students, we'll fail. we need that metro, or even better out of state, tuition.
Herdon wrote that "if we put this (state outline) in a couple of shirt designs it would be one of the top selling shirts." Really? What makes you think that? I would rather have a buffalo in side profile with "The Herd" in the M across it.
I think we also need to find a way to start better branding ourselves in the state/tri-state. I would like to see us put a small outline of the state on the back of our helmets, and somewhere small on the front of the basketball jerseys.
Also, what would it hurt for them to put out a few shirts and see if people want to purchase those?
Like I said, I just think we should start implementing the state outline in a small, but noticeable as well as classy. I don't want some over sized tacky outline of the state lol.
Or we could try to do something similar the represent the Tri-State in general. Either way, I'd be cool with it. Tri-State might would be even better. Make the people in the are feel some sort of personal connection to the school/team.
Also, what would it hurt for them to put out a few shirts and see if people want to purchase those?
Like I said, I just think we should start implementing the state outline in a small, but noticeable as well as classy. I don't want some over sized tacky outline of the state lol.
Or we could try to do something similar the represent the Tri-State in general. Either way, I'd be cool with it. Tri-State might would be even better. Make the people in the are feel some sort of personal connection to the school/team.
That is why WVU is what it is. 65% out--of-state. They can get by with that, because the typical hilljack non-alumni fan sees "West Virginia" and "that there is usens" and is OK with the fact that the school long ago turned its back on WV because they believe that the sports team somehow is representing them, even though their relationship with the school is non existant.
Marshall cannot get by with that. Every out-of-state student is still subsidized with state tax money. The state is not going to tolerate yet another de facto private school. We try that and the state will cut our budget all the more.
More than that, yes, I get "metro" students who do the math and see that MU as a "metro rate" student at Mommy's house is still less than in-state and a dorm. And I get the huge Appalachian diaspora, MU alumni and not, sending their kids "home" to go to college. And I get the special programs that MU has, like Forensic Science, and HELP and so on. But some ordinary kid with no relationship to MU or WV is going to pick MU over his or her own state's state colleges or actual private schools because? I love MU and I cannot answer that question. I just do not believe that there are that many kids who would pick MU over other places.
Agree with this. I would like to see the state incorporated into more shirt designs and even into the uniform but I don't really care if it's part of our logo. I think Marshall would do better by laying claim to West Virginia, Ohio & Kentucky rather than just West Virginia....for the reasons stated above.
First, let's set the record straight. WVU's undergraduate enrollment is made up of 49% of West Virginia students while the other 51% come from out of state.
Out of state residents pay higher tuition rates than West Virginians. The fact of the matter is that out of state residents help subsidize the cost of education for state residents. As a matter of fact, the Higher Ed committees of the Legislature have encouraged Marshall and West Virginia to attract more out of state students.
As to the topic at hand, there is nothing wrong with Marshall utilizing a state outline or some reference to the state when branding its athletic teams or academic departments. Marshall has struggled in previous attempts at finding a suitable logo design and another effort at a new brand may do more harm than good but it's certainly worth studying.
I like the idea of the state outline somewhere on the uniform. It doesn't have to be bold. It could just be a small reminder. Also, if Marshall starts marketing to the Tri-State area, I am afraid the advertisements will sound like every episode of Phineas and Ferb.
Neither assertion, Rifle, is correct. As has been explained hundreds of times, WVU gins up its enrollment figures. For one thing the 1000s of teachers across northern WV (100% in state) who are taking classes to keep their certificates valid or get a raise are counted. With all of this voodoo economics WVU can get itself down to where "only" 51% are out-of-state. If you count full time students on the actual campus, the figure is 65% out of state.
As to the idea that out-of-state students are not subsidized, this is easily dismissed. The state loses money on every out-of-state student. At MU, at WVU, everywhere.
That is why OOS tuition in other states (better run states, but relative to WV "other" and "better run" are synonyms) are so much higher. Nearly double what WVU charges, taking the averages of Pitt, Ohio State, Kentucky, Virginia, Virginia Tech, Maryland, and Penn State.
Nearly double.
WVU, where YOU pay, and OTHERS benefit.
And the state is not going to let us by with the same stuff. WV is broke.
you're so full of shit. of the 29,175 students on campus in morgantown for Fall 2014, only 3,563 were part-time students, you'd expect some of those would be local students, but also a significant portion of them would be people taking 1-2 online courses, that live outside the state of wv. either way, if you say that all 3,563 part-time students were out of state, then the 14,970 out of state students would only be 58% of the 25,612 full-time students, no where near the 65% you keep dropping incorrectly.
You do know, of course that there are not even 29K students on-campus in the 'hole. That figure INCLUDES all students taking a WVU sanctioned class (as opposed to PSC, WVUP, WVUT). Including the off-campus and the fake internet classes.
So its "only" 58%. Or "only" 51%.
Or its the correct figure, accounting for actual asses in actual seats in actual Morganhole. 65%.
WVU, where YOU pay, and OTHERS benefit.
Marshall's enrollment last year was about 9,756 student, by gender, 56.5% female with 43.5% male. Great for the guys!
I could not find the In State verses out of state enrollment....Why the Big Secret?
HerdZilla22 in Charlotte
I could not find the In State verses out of state enrollment....Why the Big Secret?
HerdZilla22 in Charlotte
MU is:
77% in-state.
8% "metro rate" (Metro rate is a discount between in and out of state for nearby counties in OH and KY, in return OH and KY do similar things for other WVians at their colleges).
4% Academic Common Market (ACM is deal between particular states where we treat their students as "in-state" for programs they don't have and they likewise do the same for WVians)
11% "true" out-of-state.
My personal guess is that about a third to a little more than that of the "out of state" students have parents that have some relationship with MU or at least the area generally. Mostly folks who moved away at the start of their adult lives and send their kids "home" to go to school.
77% in-state.
8% "metro rate" (Metro rate is a discount between in and out of state for nearby counties in OH and KY, in return OH and KY do similar things for other WVians at their colleges).
4% Academic Common Market (ACM is deal between particular states where we treat their students as "in-state" for programs they don't have and they likewise do the same for WVians)
11% "true" out-of-state.
My personal guess is that about a third to a little more than that of the "out of state" students have parents that have some relationship with MU or at least the area generally. Mostly folks who moved away at the start of their adult lives and send their kids "home" to go to school.
I live out of state and I have a college age son. I can tell you that MU is not that great of deal in terms of dollars. Matter of fact, it would cost us a lot of money. Sure, they offer the legacy scholarship but they won't combine it with academic. Wow, the legacy scholarship saves a whopping few hundred dollars a year over academic. All in all if you are out of state and your kid gets the legacy scholarship MU(with room and board) is still going to cost you $20 plus grand a year. Multiply that times four. Is MU an $80,000 education?
I love MU as much as the next guy, but to me that is not that great of a value for out of state students. I honestly think MU does not want out of state students in large numbers.
I love MU as much as the next guy, but to me that is not that great of a value for out of state students. I honestly think MU does not want out of state students in large numbers.
I disagree Herdman...
For what Marshall offers combined with whatever work ethic your lazy kid is going to put into their education...the result could be pretty substantial.
Marshall and wvu, are both some of the more affordable out-of-state options for students. It also can give them a good return on the investment if they applied themselves.
But go ahead, send your kid to Penn State where you'll end up forking out about $40,000 per year for your kid making it about double the payment you'd have if the kid went to Marshall...and if they happen to graduate with a degree Marshall offers, it's likely the two are accredited by the same academic body, one just looks fancier and costs double what the other does.
I also think Marshall SHOULD go after more out-of-state students...it's less of an incentive to drop out, the demographics are good for parents who could likely afford their students to go, and the education is what you make of it...challenging or a cakewalk.
Marshall, hopefully increases their enrollment numbers to 20,000 with about 5,000 of those being out of state, 1,000 being foreign exchange, the rest being basically in-state or tri-state metro area students.
Problem is, Marshall doesn't have room to fully expand...yet. They don't have much room to build new dorms. I heard Holderby is going to come down and they'll either build a new dorm where it stood or across the street in the empty field. They also want to do away with Laidley Hall, which is an aging building much like Hodges was...they'll tear that down and make that a foreign exchange student dorm.
IF Marshall somehow go the ACF property, build some riverside dorms near the river with a nice view...on top of the baseball field and other things.
For what Marshall offers combined with whatever work ethic your lazy kid is going to put into their education...the result could be pretty substantial.
Marshall and wvu, are both some of the more affordable out-of-state options for students. It also can give them a good return on the investment if they applied themselves.
But go ahead, send your kid to Penn State where you'll end up forking out about $40,000 per year for your kid making it about double the payment you'd have if the kid went to Marshall...and if they happen to graduate with a degree Marshall offers, it's likely the two are accredited by the same academic body, one just looks fancier and costs double what the other does.
I also think Marshall SHOULD go after more out-of-state students...it's less of an incentive to drop out, the demographics are good for parents who could likely afford their students to go, and the education is what you make of it...challenging or a cakewalk.
Marshall, hopefully increases their enrollment numbers to 20,000 with about 5,000 of those being out of state, 1,000 being foreign exchange, the rest being basically in-state or tri-state metro area students.
Problem is, Marshall doesn't have room to fully expand...yet. They don't have much room to build new dorms. I heard Holderby is going to come down and they'll either build a new dorm where it stood or across the street in the empty field. They also want to do away with Laidley Hall, which is an aging building much like Hodges was...they'll tear that down and make that a foreign exchange student dorm.
IF Marshall somehow go the ACF property, build some riverside dorms near the river with a nice view...on top of the baseball field and other things.
Hypothetical. Ok, if I am in NC resident, why would I send my kid to Marshall for $23 grand a year when I could send them to ECU, App State, UNC Charlotte, etc. for $7 grand a year lower? Those schools are similar to Marshall? I know the numbers. I have them for MU and several of these schools. There is that much difference for a NC kid to go to MU. The legacy scholarship helps but MU won't combine it with anything else and say it is because it is higher than the academic scholarship. Well, yehh by a whopping few hundred dollars.
That was my point. MU is not that great of a deal for out state students when comparing similar schools. Of course Penn State is going to cost more and is harder to get in. I've ran the numbers in a real world experience. At some point, it becomes a business decision. Is it worth $30,000 more(higher cost over a 4 year period) for a parent to send a kid to MU?
I don't know how MU is losing money on out of state students. Seems to me the out of state students are subsidizing some of the low cost of in state tuition for WV residents. MU is a great deal for residents of WV. For out of students in many states it is not.
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And that is the question for which there is no answer.
WVU and Marshall are essentially in totally different situations.
First, of course, the non-alumni hilljack has WVU's back in a way that Marshall will never enjoy. As long at the hilljack perceives WVU as "them there is usens" pretty much whatever the management does, including the massive subsidy of out-of-state students is OK.
And then you have totally different markets, and different products to sell.
WVU, as a de facto private school, plies the market in the northeast. The northeast, for various historical reasons, does not fund higher education like the rest of the country, rather it gives more money to students to spend where they will. And the northeast, and most of the country, have a tiered system of higher education. The schools with big sports are hard to get into. Really hard. Best and brightest. WVU has essentially open admissions. Anybody who has any business in any college can get into WVU. If you cannot get into WVU, your education should end at the 12th grade.
And WVU has, in addition to a massively subsidized tuition and open admissions, a certain product to sell. Cupcake academics, a local culture that might as well be New Jersey (and which makes fun of the very hilljacks that love "their" school so much), an Animal House lifestyle, and, while it has never won anything, some semblance of "big time sports".
So you have some kid. Standing there with a few letters that say in so many words "you are not smart enough" and being pointed towards Montclair State, or Radford, or SUNY-Wide Spot In the Road, or Frostburg, or what have you. And here is WVU offering him open admissions, cupcake academics, a life of four (or five or six) years of drunken revelry, and the lowest out-of-state tuition going. I can see who would go for that. The drunk. The loser. The sports mad New Jersite. Guido.
Marshall? Different product. Different market. MU borders not on the northeast, but on the South and Midwest. Places chock full of good colleges, well run by their state. Great schools. With reasonable tuitions and good academics. MU (leaving out the above mentioned Academic Common Market, the "metro rate" and a few special programs like Forensic Science or HELP) offers ??
Well, a nice, but grossly underfunded, mid-sized university that is kind of on the border between a small research institution and a big undergraduate centric one. Nice. Good. But not really distinguishable from Appy State, or James Madison, or ETSU, or Louisville, or Kent State, or Ball State, or College of Charleston, or so on. No real reason for an ordinary person with no relationship to WV and no desire or need for our special programs to look twice. Just as well go to their home state's offerings, which are a lot like MU, only more suited to them.
Which is why it is a Quixotic venture to try to be a de facto private school. The market, one that WVU turned its back on decades ago, is right there. West Virginia.
Our job and our burden.
The market you speak of is very limited. There are only so many West Virginia students going to college and that pool is shrinking every year as West Virginia loses population. You cant rely just on West Virginia students. It wont work. Marshall isn't going to grow the new engineering program, or the Biotech department or virtually any other program relying on West Virginia high school students alone to do it. Marshall has to bring in more international and out of state students to truly grow the university. As Marshall grows more programs should be available and that means more opportunities for those West Virginia students you are speaking about.
I don't think putting an outline of the state in a university logo would help much. It didn't seem like it helped when we used it before on old logos. How many people who don't know which state Marshall is located would then be able to look at a new logo and suddenly recognize the state of West Virginia in outline? I wouldn't think it would be many.
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