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Article from Smock about why this team would get crushed by Snyder's worst...

the most disturbing thing from the article was Akron. i had no clue how bad they ended up being...

Horrendous results: This season’s 65-38 loss to Akron keeps looking worse. The Zips are 5-5, losing 41-0 to Western Michigan, 41-20 to Buffalo and 48-17 to Toledo.
 
Yep, the 2007 team was better and at least gave an effort. I think a more reasonable comparison would be that this is our worst team since Chaumps 1986 sqaud. Not a slam on them just looking at game perforamance, etc.

This is sad. The train is off the tracks and running amuck. Doc has lost total control. 2017 doesn't look much better without massive and drastic change.

WKU may score 100 on us. Frankly, I don't blame them if they do.
 
Yep, the 2007 team was better and at least gave an effort. I think a more reasonable comparison would be that this is our worst team since Chaumps 1986 sqaud. Not a slam on them just looking at game perforamance, etc.

This is sad. The train is off the tracks and running amuck. Doc has lost total control. 2017 doesn't look much better without massive and drastic change.

WKU may score 100 on us. Frankly, I don't blame them if they do.

We finished 6-4-1 and 4-3 in he conference in 1986. Not sure how that remotely compares to a likely 2-10 season. You have to go back to 1981 in order to find a team that just won 2 games.
 
We finished 6-4-1 and 4-3 in he conference in 1986. Not sure how that remotely compares to a likely 2-10 season. You have to go back to 1981 in order to find a team that just won 2 games.


Just saying that team was likely our weakest since. The 2007 wasn't nearly as bad as this current cluster bomb. So in essence it's safe to say this is our worst team in decades.
 
The part that kills me is that I kind of thought 2007 was our bottom and 1999 was our ceiling. Then in 2014, that was the new ceiling...and it was a mid-December bowl against a MAC team. Now 2016 is the new bottom, and I gotta tell you - its hard to look at all this and not think the quality of the product hasn't been down-graded across the board.

We win the Stars Competition each spring on Signing Day, but that doesn't matter for much when half to two-thirds of those recruits never see the field. That dynamic, combined with the weakness of our conference, has really hidden how badly the quality of Marshall teams has degraded in the last 5-6 years.
 
We win the Stars Competition each spring on Signing Day

Not so much the last two seasons. Not like we did from 2011-2013. Those classes were a big part of our run. These last couple classes have had a couple big recruits but overall were not that impressive and it's showing on the field.
 
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This is the start of a very long winter season for the program. Not much to look forward to for several seasons to come.
 
Hartley was a big loss on the recruiting side as well, last years class without him was not that great..........just saying, between Hartley and Seider, we lost a lot in recruiting and Doc should have had an ace up his sleeve if he is as good at recruiting as they say he is.
 
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Not so much the last two seasons. Not like we did from 2011-2013. Those classes were a big part of our run. These last couple classes have had a couple big recruits but overall were not that impressive and it's showing on the field.

Not only not very impressive, but we seem to be getting recruits with little passion for the game. I'll take a kid that loves football and works his ass off 12 months a year anytime over an extra star or two next to a name.
 
I think this article shows why people still showed up to watch the 2007 Herd versus why people are not watching today's Herd. People see a ridiculous level of talent on the 2016 team that is being wasted to an extreme level.
 
Not only not very impressive, but we seem to be getting recruits with little passion for the game. I'll take a kid that loves football and works his ass off 12 months a year anytime over an extra star or two next to a name.


Damn right and that's exactly is what's happening.
 
Not only not very impressive, but we seem to be getting recruits with little passion for the game. I'll take a kid that loves football and works his ass off 12 months a year anytime over an extra star or two next to a name.


Damn right and that's exactly is what's happening.
 
The part that kills me is that I kind of thought 2007 was our bottom and 1999 was our ceiling. Then in 2014, that was the new ceiling...and it was a mid-December bowl against a MAC team. Now 2016 is the new bottom, and I gotta tell you - its hard to look at all this and not think the quality of the product hasn't been down-graded across the board.

In 1999 we were undefeated and played a three loss MWC team on December 27th. Let's not pretend it was something more than it was.

Had we not blown it against WKU in 2014 we would very well could have been playing in the Fiesta Bowl. The Boca Bowl against NIU was not our ceiling that year.
 
In 1999 we were undefeated and played a three loss MWC team on December 27th. Let's not pretend it was something more than it was.

Something to consider though...had the '99 Herd existed in 2014 I think we would have made it to the Fiesta Bowl and put on a helluva show.


Had we not blown it against WKU in 2014 we would very well could have been playing in the Fiesta Bowl. The Boca Bowl against NIU was not our ceiling that year.

The Boca Bowl was still yet another example of the small-time mentality those in charge of our football program possess. Beating the absolute shit out of a MAC team did NOT garner any respect. We should have taken the opportunity to lay it on a B1G team in Illinois.
 
Had we not blown it against WKU in 2014 we would very well could have been playing in the Fiesta Bowl. The Boca Bowl against NIU was not our ceiling that year.
Prior to losing to WKU, we were trailing Boise State in the CFP rankings. We could have won that game and the conference championship and we still would not have had enough to unseat Boise, who won out. Just the same, we could have lost two other games, not even played in the Conference Championship, and when bowl selection time came around, we'd have been playing NIU in Florida (unless WKU or LTSU decided they wanted to, for some reason).
 
i used to think if we could go unbeaten we would get the access bowl. the only way that happens is IF the AAC and MWC champions have 2 losses. even then it is not certain as 'licious pointed out above. in 2014 we were 11-0 and ranked behind 9-2 Boise. Boise had no marquee wins that season. they played 1 P5 and got drilled.
 
Not only not very impressive, but we seem to be getting recruits with little passion for the game. I'll take a kid that loves football and works his ass off 12 months a year anytime over an extra star or two next to a name.
This this this god this. Makes me think of the Blake Keller article the week of the Louisville game...I think it was meant to make us think we're lucky to have him on the team, but it more or less said the kid quit on UCF mid-season because he didn't want to play football anymore. Why do you give a kid like that a scholarship? Why do you bring that attitude into your lockeroom? Why would you be surprised when he doesn't live up to his potential?
 
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Prior to losing to WKU, we were trailing Boise State in the CFP rankings. We could have won that game and the conference championship and we still would not have had enough to unseat Boise, who won out. Just the same, we could have lost two other games, not even played in the Conference Championship, and when bowl selection time came around, we'd have been playing NIU in Florida (unless WKU or LTSU decided they wanted to, for some reason).

We were one spot behind Boise when we lost to WKU - a lot could have happened. My point remains the same, though. Our ceiling was much higher that year compared to '99.
 
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Not so much the last two seasons. Not like we did from 2011-2013. Those classes were a big part of our run. These last couple classes have had a couple big recruits but overall were not that impressive and it's showing on the field.


The recruits when Doc first arrived were tricked into coming here then it was to late for them to leave and have to sit a year once they figured out what a poor in game coach and asshole he can be. Now the word is out on him amoungst recruits and they are going to sign at other schools. I'm sure a few liked Doc but most of the former players I've asked what they think of Doc and it's mostly not positive. Another reason he needs to go is this down hill snowball effect it will have on recruiting. Kids don't want to be apart of this dumpster fire
 
Goodness. "Let's rehash playing a good MAC team in a good location over playing the lowest bowl eligible Big 10 loser in Dallas' rotten Cotton Bowl (the stadium, the bowl game named that moved to Jerry World a long time ago) " from years ago. That is even sadder than having fond memories of the Marcum-Snyder era of failure, dishonesty, destruction, and lying.

We are having a bad year. Cheer anyway. Show up anyway.
 
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I think this article shows why people still showed up to watch the 2007 Herd versus why people are not watching today's Herd. People see a ridiculous level of talent on the 2016 team that is being wasted to an extreme level.


I question if we really are as talented as some think. Results on the field against teams like Akron and Charlotte prove otherwise. Lets not drink the media kool aid.
 
The recruits when Doc first arrived were tricked into coming here then it was to late for them to leave and have to sit a year once they figured out what a poor in game coach and asshole he can be. Now the word is out on him amoungst recruits and they are going to sign at other schools. I'm sure a few liked Doc but most of the former players I've asked what they think of Doc and it's mostly not positive. Another reason he needs to go is this down hill snowball effect it will have on recruiting. Kids don't want to be apart of this dumpster fire

Wtf are you talking about. What you posted couldn't be any further than the truth.
 
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The recruits when Doc first arrived were tricked into coming here then it was to late for them to leave and have to sit a year once they figured out what a poor in game coach and asshole he can be. Now the word is out on him amoungst recruits and they are going to sign at other schools. I'm sure a few liked Doc but most of the former players I've asked what they think of Doc and it's mostly not positive. Another reason he needs to go is this down hill snowball effect it will have on recruiting. Kids don't want to be apart of this dumpster fire

Wtf are you talking about. What you posted couldn't be any further than the truth.
 
Wtf are you talking about. What you posted couldn't be any further than the truth.


Exactly. Doc has a tremendous reputation as a recruiter and has past players (including Marshall players) that swear by the man. That doesn't happen if you are a liar.

Are there players that don't like Doc? Sure. Not every boss is loved by all of his employees and the same goes for coaches. Fans make the mistake of convincing themselves of this fantasy that all the players are best friends and every player wants to run through a wall for their coach. Couldn't be further from the truth on every team ever.
 
AndyfortheHerd true we don't have Toledo and Western Michigan anymore but Hammy loves the MAC so next year we get Miami (OH) and Kent State and soon a team that has Docs number - Ohio.
 
Not so much the last two seasons. Not like we did from 2011-2013. Those classes were a big part of our run. These last couple classes have had a couple big recruits but overall were not that impressive and it's showing on the field.
The 2011 class has been by far our best during the Doc era, but the 2012 classes has to be one of our worst classes since moving to FBS back in 1997. If you look at the top-18 recruits by position in each class from 2011-2015, the 2011 class was the highest composite rating (72.46 = 3-star), highest star rating (2.778), had one of the best overall retention rates for the top 18 recruits by position (61.11%), and had the highest retention rate among 3-star plus recruits (69.231%). The class also gave us all-time stars in Cato and Shuler (4th rated WR in class so not included in numbers), and was the key class in rebuilding the program. The 2013 class was good for solid starters and depth players so they contributed to our success, but the 2012 class was abysmal. Only 4 of the top 18 recruits turned into depth chart or starting caliber players, and the class was also one of our lowest rated classes. The retention rate for the top-18 recruits by position in the class was 27.78%, and the retention rate for 3-star plus recruits was 10%. So while Seider did a great job with the 2011 class, his 2012 class was the complete opposite, and is partially at fault for the lack of senior leadership we see on this year's team, since only 1 SR remains and he doesn't even play.

Looking to the future, the 2014-2016 classes supply 26 of 44 2-deep spots on the current team and we will return all but 2 of those players next season. The 2014-2015 classes currently have good retention rates among the top-18 in both classes with 16 of 25 3-star plus recruits still in the program and most are gaining valuable experience this season. From a ratings standpoint, the 2016 class is the best class we have had on paper and is loaded with potential. At this time, only 6 of the top-18 recruits are playing, but the top-18 by position in the class contains 12 3-star and 2 4-star recruits. So when looking at the 2014-2016 classes returning 30 of 39 3-star plus recruits from the top-18 by position, which will make up a bulk of the 2017 and 2018 teams, the future looks bright even if this year has been a terrible disaster.
 
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Hartley was a big loss on the recruiting side as well, last years class without him was not that great..........just saying, between Hartley and Seider, we lost a lot in recruiting and Doc should have had an ace up his sleeve if he is as good at recruiting as they say he is.
The 2016 class is our best yet on paper under Doc when you figure in the "futures" or NQs. Now the 2011 class was great overall, so only time will tell if the 2016 class can get to that level of success.
 
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Our 2002, 2003, 2004 class is probably the 3 worst classes since out move up
I believe I would agree with that, the 2012 class talent level was pretty good for a G5, but the 2012 class was close due to the insane attrition level. The only players in the class that produced on the field were Leggett, Devon Johnson, JUCOs (Ken Smith and Gage Niemeyer), Massaquoi, Tindal, and Thompson besides Cincotta and Williams on special teams.
 
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