Basketball question

[ilmherdfan]

Question for those that watched practice over the summer and preseason: What has happened since then?

I am not attacking you, just curious as to what happened. We are a bad team right now.

 

[bbneutralfan]

Remember practice is just that - against each other. Yes they practice hard but no substitute for playing against those who are not your teammates. Everyone looks good in practice - some better than others. Now they are finding out the weaknesses we have i.e., no really good bigs at this point, shut down Elmore and Burks we’re dead. Lots of work to be done IMO. Team trying to live on last year’s success.

 

[ilmherdfan]

This is really ugly. Even Elmore looks out of sorts.

 

[johns_1124]

Question for those that watched practice over the summer and preseason: What has happened since then?.

People watching practice and reporting has no clue about basketball. Just reporting what they think they saw. Anything impressed them!

 

[jrod64]

I can tell you this, our defense is awful and we can't rebound. Offensively tonight was actually one of our better games except for Elmore. We have been playing extremely selfishly going one on one almost exclusively. Elmore has been settling for fade away 12 footers instead of getting to the rim. I saw a lot of good things tonight that I think we will build upon but we have got to play better defensively especially when we go small as other teams are just abusing our small lineup inside

 

[Tim Hensley]

Who the hell is johns_1124? Sounds like he's out of the Bible. Why, I bet he can even walk on water!

Sure doesn't know any English... It's HAVE not "has."

 

[Herd-nificent]

Elmore has had his bubble burst .... finding out he is not NBA material.

 

[Herdon2]

This season has certainly been anticlimactic. I had bought season tickets for bball for first time in long time and the games I was hoping we would win have been complete blowouts. I can't wait to see the UVA score.

 

[Herdmeister]

Question for those that watched practice over the summer and preseason: What has happened since then?

I am not attacking you, just curious as to what happened. We are a bad team right now.

The 2 practices leading up to Ohio were the worst we have had all year. After watching those I wasn't surprised to see what I did in Athens.
Then the practice this week were much better. We saw the lineup change and I felt rather comfortable. Then the collapse in Pittsburgh.
I'm looking forward to today's practice. Toledo will be a VERY tough game for sure. They may be better than both Ohio and Duquesne.

 

[The Real SamC]

Toledo has not really played a great schedule, but they are 8-1. They will crush this team.

The cold truth of reality is not only finally sinking into the fanbase, but into the players, some of whom are responding by playing selfishly, and most of whom are simply phoning it in and going through the motions. When a team stops listening to the coach, bad things happen.

We have a shot against Morehead, and in-conference there is the bottom group of 4 to 6 football centric group that makes a token effort at basketball, but other than that, there are few wins on this schedule.

 

[ARandomHerdFan]

Toledo has not really played a great schedule, but they are 8-1. They will crush this team.

The cold truth of reality is not only finally sinking into the fanbase, but into the players, some of whom are responding by playing selfishly, and most of whom are simply phoning it in and going through the motions. When a team stops listening to the coach, bad things happen.

We have a shot against Morehead, and in-conference there is the bottom group of 4 to 6 football centric group that makes a token effort at basketball, but other than that, there are few wins on this schedule.

Considering you're wrong about almost everything, I'm not too worried about basketball.

This was a post you made last year:

Basketball will bounce about to a .500 or so record, only because some of the football centric schools in CUSA make near zero effort at other sports, and we will have a nice argument about should we pay to play in one of these stupid post season tournaments, and then everybody can talk about "next year".

Lather, rinse, repeat.

 

[herdalicious]

Losing Penava was crushing. Other than Darius George, who isn't a true big, we have nothing resembling a big. The import looks like a fish out of water, and Iran Bennett looks more and more like a project that may never pan out. People got upset when his weight was brought up earlier in the season, but at this point you can't really deny that he's not in any kind of shape to provide quality minutes, and that's having been on campus, in the program, waiting to play for well over a year.

There was a play in the Ohio game where their guard drove the lane on Bennett in transition; Bennett turned and stopped to draw the charge, but when the guard's body hit him, he couldn't keep his feet set and stumbled backward and the charge turned into a blocking foul. That's not a good sign on a lot of levels.

 

[Sean Hammond]

What is a "football centric school"?

 

[Chris McLaughlin]

Toledo has not really played a great schedule, but they are 8-1. They will crush this team.

The cold truth of reality is not only finally sinking into the fanbase, but into the players, some of whom are responding by playing selfishly, and most of whom are simply phoning it in and going through the motions. When a team stops listening to the coach, bad things happen.

We have a shot against Morehead, and in-conference there is the bottom group of 4 to 6 football centric group that makes a token effort at basketball, but other than that, there are few wins on this schedule.

You are absolutely ridiculous.

Seriously, what world do you live in?

After the all the incorrect shit you talked about the basketball program last year you're really going to dig your heels in like this now?

 

[The Real SamC]

I'm not too worried about basketball.

I am, I watch the games and understand basketball.

last year

Last year the team was 20-10 versus DI in the regular season. .666, not .500. That was better than I, and most people not seeing the world through the green tinted glasses, thought. It got hot in this one-bid league's tournament and went on to upset a team in the first round of the NCAAs. It was great. It was special.

How long we going to live on that? This year? Five years? Thirty years?

How many more losses before everyone comes around? Or are we going to ride this all the way to Frisco?

What is a "football centric school"?

CUSA exists for football. The only common factor linking the teams together is football. If there was no football, this conference would not exist and the teams would find much more geographically logical conferences to play in.

Different schools make different efforts at basketball. Some of CUSA makes an serious national level effort at basketball. We do. Western and Middle and UAB and ODU do. Even though they are down right now UNCC does. UTEP won the national championship 50 years ago. Other make a lesser effort. Have you seen some of the GYMS, not arenas, GYMS some of these schools play in? They play basketball because the rules say you have to play basketball. The two main sports in Texas are football and football practice.

 

[Y.A.G Si Ye Nots]

They play basketball because the rules say you have to play basketball. The two main sports in Texas are football and football practice.

Yet the state has Texas Tech, Texas, TCU, Houston, and North Texas within the top 44 of teams receiving votes.

 

[Sean Hammond]

I am, I watch the games and understand basketball.



Last year the team was 20-10 versus DI in the regular season. .666, not .500. That was better than I, and most people not seeing the world through the green tinted glasses, thought. It got hot in this one-bid league's tournament and went on to upset a team in the first round of the NCAAs. It was great. It was special.

How long we going to live on that? This year? Five years? Thirty years?

How many more losses before everyone comes around? Or are we going to ride this all the way to Frisco?



CUSA exists for football. The only common factor linking the teams together is football. If there was no football, this conference would not exist and the teams would find much more geographically logical conferences to play in.

Different schools make different efforts at basketball. Some of CUSA makes an serious national level effort at basketball. We do. Western and Middle and UAB and ODU do. Even though they are down right now UNCC does. UTEP won the national championship 50 years ago. Other make a lesser effort. Have you seen some of the GYMS, not arenas, GYMS some of these schools play in? They play basketball because the rules say you have to play basketball. The two main sports in Texas are football and football practice.

I would argue many of your points, but you're like talking to a fvcking brick wall, so I won't waste my time.

But just know that those schools who have "GYMS" also have high school level football FIELDS. They're poor, man. Not "football centric"

 

[The Real SamC]

Google is your friend. Try "Alamodome" and then "UTSA Convocation Center" and then "UTSA endowment". Or try "Rice Stadium" and then "Tudor Fieldhouse" and "Tuition at Rice University". Or "FAU Stadium" and "FAU Arena" and "enrollment of FAU".

There is nothing wrong with being football centric. It is not a slur. Alabama, Texas, Florida State. Neither it basketball centric. Kentucky, Duke, Kansas. Nor is trying to do well at both sports. WVU, Ohio State, UCLA.

Trying to argue that this whole league puts the effort and resources into basketball that we and the other better teams do, or that their fans care about basketball as much as we do, is silly. They don't.

 

[Y.A.G Si Ye Nots]

Google is your friend. Try "Alamodome" and then "UTSA Convocation Center" and then "UTSA endowment".
.

UTSA doesn't own the Alamodome. In what bizarre world is a school considered "football centric" when it doesn't have its own stadium and has to rent out a cavernous basketball arena that is 20 miles from campus to play their football games?

Or try "Rice Stadium" and then "Tudor Fieldhouse" and "Tuition at Rice University"..

Clearly, you've never been to Rice. Pretty, urban campus? Yes. Nice baseball stadium? Yes. Nice G5 football stadium? No.

Trying to argue that Rice is football centric due to some false belief that their football stadium is better than their basketball facilities is as foolish as we've grown to expect from you, Samantha.

Rice's basketball facilities are nothing to write home about, but they are on par with their football stadium in comparison to peer institutions: both are sub-par.

Or "FAU Stadium" and "FAU Arena" and "enrollment of FAU".
.

The discrepancy between those two facilities had to do with FAU moving up to FBS football.

FAU's Ocean Bank Convo Center was already suitable for D1, mid-major basketball. Is is a great facility? No. But it is suitable, on campus, and its own.

FAU didn't have its own football stadium. It had to drive 45 minutes, each way, from campus to rent an NFL stadium. Building an on-campus stadium for their FBS program doesn't mean they are football centric. It means they were simply trying to get to the same level as what they provided their basketball team.

If the situation had been reversed (FAU having an on-campus football stadium but having to send their basketball team 45 minutes away to rent a stadium), FAU would have built a basketball arena that was more modern (thus nicer) than their football stadium. That wouldn't have made them "basketball centric." It would have just been an attempt to give their basketball team a fighting chance.

The best part is you contradict yourself.

You claim that UTSA is football centric since they send their football team 20 miles away from campus to rent a huge basketball arena. You then claim that FAU is football centric because they built a football stadium so that they didn't have to rent out a huge, empty stadium 45 minutes away.

 

[RhinoD]

Getting back to the original topic...

Our basketball team has no size. I think anyone who watched practice and the preseason games knew that would be an issue, but many believed that we could overcome having no size by shooting the lights out and scoring 100 points a game. We cant.

Here are our "big men" and it's not hard to see why the team is struggling.

Iran Bennett (6'9) – Still over the desired playing weight, no stamina, fouls like crazy, limited offensive game.
Ante Sustic (6'10)– Tall but doesn't rebound, good help defender but poor on-ball defender, wants to be a guard on offense
Jannson Williams (6'9 in the media guide, 6'7 or so in real life) – Arguably our best player this season. Great effort, really good SF, not a PF or C.
Mikel Beyers (6'9, again being generous) – Can shoot it, athletic, but not a good defender and looks totally lost on both ends of the floor.
Darius George (6'7) – Most improved player on the team, great effort, but really a SF and not a PF or a C.

When we run into teams who have guys 6'8 or so and taller, that rebound and play good defense we are in trouble.

 

[Sean Hammond]

UTSA doesn't own the Alamodome. In what bizarre world is a school considered "football centric" when it doesn't have its own stadium and has to rent out a cavernous basketball arena that is 20 miles from campus to play their football games?



Clearly, you've never been to Rice. Pretty, urban campus? Yes. Nice baseball stadium? Yes. Nice G5 football stadium? No.

Trying to argue that Rice is football centric due to some false belief that their football stadium is better than their basketball facilities is as foolish as we've grown to expect from you, Samantha.

Rice's basketball facilities are nothing to write home about, but they are on par with their football stadium in comparison to peer institutions: both are sub-par.





The discrepancy between those two facilities had to do with FAU moving up to FBS football.

FAU's Ocean Bank Convo Center was already suitable for D1, mid-major basketball. Is is a great facility? No. But it is suitable, on campus, and its own.

FAU didn't have its own football stadium. It had to drive 45 minutes, each way, from campus to rent an NFL stadium. Building an on-campus stadium for their FBS program doesn't mean they are football centric. It means they were simply trying to get to the same level as what they provided their basketball team.

If the situation had been reversed (FAU having an on-campus football stadium but having to send their basketball team 45 minutes away to rent a stadium), FAU would have built a basketball arena that was more modern (thus nicer) than their football stadium. That wouldn't have made them "basketball centric." It would have just been an attempt to give their basketball team a fighting chance.

The best part is you contradict yourself.

You claim that UTSA is football centric since they send their football team 20 miles away from campus to rent a huge basketball arena. You then claim that FAU is football centric because they built a football stadium so that they didn't have to rent out a huge, empty stadium 45 minutes away.

Thanks for taking the time to correct the brick wall.

 

[Sean Hammond]

Getting back to the original topic...

Our basketball team has no size. I think anyone who watched practice and the preseason games knew that would be an issue, but many believed that we could overcome having no size by shooting the lights out and scoring 100 points a game. We cant.

Here are our "big men" and it's not hard to see why the team is struggling.

Iran Bennett (6'9) – Still over the desired playing weight, no stamina, fouls like crazy, limited offensive game.
Ante Sustic (6'10)– Tall but doesn't rebound, good help defender but poor on-ball defender, wants to be a guard on offense
Jannson Williams (6'9 in the media guide, 6'7 or so in real life) – Arguably our best player this season. Great effort, really good SF, not a PF or C.
Mikel Beyers (6'9, again being generous) – Can shoot it, athletic, but not a good defender and looks totally lost on both ends of the floor.
Darius George (6'7) – Most improved player on the team, great effort, but really a SF and not a PF or a C.

When we run into teams who have guys 6'8 or so and taller, that rebound and play good defense we are in trouble.

Mostly correct. IMO, Jannson is the perfect stretch 4 in today's basketball. If you don't think he's a PF, you must be comparing him to Karl Malone and not what a PF is today. He's a perfect stretch-4 who can play some 3. George has similar attributes.

I agree with everything else. I think too much has been made about Bennett's weight and not enough has been made about his lack of skill. Dan has a lot of developing to do with him before we see him as anything more than a better version of Mijovic (I've been saying this for a while).


IMO, we're more similar to the type of team we had 2-3 years ago with Ryan Taylor, Loop, & Browning. Those teams struggled early on too and played really well in the CUSA tournament, but came up short when facing the well talented/coached MTSU teams. We greatly miss what Penava provided.

 

[RhinoD]

Mostly correct. IMO, Jannson is the perfect stretch 4 in today's basketball. If you don't think he's a PF, you must be comparing him to Karl Malone and not what a PF is today. He's a perfect stretch-4 who can play some 3. George has similar attributes.

Thats a good point... Because we are routinely getting our lunch money taken by bigger and stronger frontcourt players I tend to think less about our system and more about matchups. Williams can play a stretch-four of offense, but that doesn't do us any good as far as rebounding against taller teams.

If Williams is going to be considered the PF, which is fine, then we need a C that can rebound and protect the rim. Penava was good at both of those things and currently none of our other bigs are even mediocre.

 

[Sean Hammond]

Thats a good point... Because we are routinely getting our lunch money taken by bigger and stronger frontcourt players I tend to think less about our system and more about matchups. Williams can play a stretch-four of offense, but that doesn't do us any good as far as rebounding against taller teams.

If Williams is going to be considered the PF, which is fine, then we need a C that can rebound and protect the rim. Penava was good at both of those things and currently none of our other bigs are even mediocre.

Totally agree. Not having Penava's shot blocking abilities definitely hurts. People like to use the term "rim protection", which is correct. But I like to think of a guy like Penava as more of an "eraser", in the sense that he erases defensive mistakes. Penava wasn't good because he could anchor down a low post player and take him away. Penava got abused vs those types, just like our current guys are. But Penava erased a lot of defensive mistakes--and sometimes teams just scheme up/execute a damn good play--and Penava would be there to deny it. Using the "eraser" way of thinking, a big body (like Bennett) isn't going to help in that sense. And what a defensive anchor (like Bennett) gives you in defending the post, will be negated/exploited by teams pulling him away from the basket and making him defend PnR.

However, I don't see Penava's replacement on our roster this season, and IMO, we need to stop looking for it this season (I say "this season", because Penava was very Michael Beyers-like in his freshman & sophomore seasons. Beyers could develop into what Penava became.) To compensate for the loss of Penava's mistake erasing capabilities, I think we're going to have to play much better team defense on the perimeter. Possibly play some junk defense to give different looks? Put more pressure on the ball, play more denial on the wings, and extend the opposition's offensive sets. Because Ajden Penava isn't walking through the door.

 

[herdinatl]

Getting back to the original topic...

Our basketball team has no size. I think anyone who watched practice and the preseason games knew that would be an issue, but many believed that we could overcome having no size by shooting the lights out and scoring 100 points a game. We cant.

Here are our "big men" and it's not hard to see why the team is struggling.

Iran Bennett (6'9) – Still over the desired playing weight, no stamina, fouls like crazy, limited offensive game.
Ante Sustic (6'10)– Tall but doesn't rebound, good help defender but poor on-ball defender, wants to be a guard on offense
Jannson Williams (6'9 in the media guide, 6'7 or so in real life) – Arguably our best player this season. Great effort, really good SF, not a PF or C.
Mikel Beyers (6'9, again being generous) – Can shoot it, athletic, but not a good defender and looks totally lost on both ends of the floor.
Darius George (6'7) – Most improved player on the team, great effort, but really a SF and not a PF or a C.

When we run into teams who have guys 6'8 or so and taller, that rebound and play good defense we are in trouble.

Jannson is 6'-9".....and thank you for your kind words about him.

IMO he is a 3 stetch 4 and should be considered a big-shooting- guard or small forward and NOT a power forward. Again, just my opinion.

Just for the record, you can take my opinon and $2 to the store and get a ccoke (pepsi for you northerners), lol.

 

[Sean Hammond]

Jannson is 6'-9".....and thank you for your kind words about him.

IMO he is a 3 stetch 4 and should be considered a big-shooting- guard or small forward and NOT a power forward. Again, just my opinion.

Just for the record, you can take my opinon and $2 to the store and get a ccoke (pepsi for you northerners), lol.

I really appreciate your contributions to the board. You've been a delight since you joined.

I understand your opinion on Jannson. But the way we play is considered "positionless basketball" and it's for a reason. Jannson, Darius, Watson, etc. can be labeled a certain position/fit. But where they play in our offense doesn't really matter if they aren't the 1. What does matter is defensive assignments and those will be made on a game-to-game basis, based off our opponent, and matchups. For instance, West would be classified as a "3". Jarrod West isn't a 3. But he also isn't the PG, because we have Elmore. However, West's defensive abilities are perfect for guarding the opposition's PG and Elmore can slide to the least capable 2/3 of our opponent.

In CJ Burks' freshman season, he was our 6th man and would often sub in for our center (Thompson). Burks isn't a center. But our 4, Ryan Taylor, would slide down to play the 5 (at 6'5) and Loop and Burks would either play the 3/4, depending on matchup. Burks isn't a 4 either, but that's what he played sometimes in defensive assignment.

So when I talk about where a guy is/should be playing, it's based off the traditional 1-5 labeling in our "positionless" system. Really, on offense, we play 1 PG, with 3 wings, and a big; or 1 PG and 4 wings. Where they're classified in the traditional 1-5 labeling is kinda irrelevant. NBA GMs today don't fill a roster out based off the 1-5 labeling anymore. There are about 13 categories they now try to pigeonhole a player into and fill their roster out based on fits for the coach's/organization's system.


Sorry for the long and drawn out post. I'm a nerd when it comes to basketball. Good discussion, I always enjoy.

 

[herdalicious]

Just for the record, you can take my opinon and $2 to the store and get a ccoke (pepsi for you northerners), lol.

Sir, this is West Virginia - we drink Royal Crown from cans that were manufactured in the 1980's.

 

[herdinatl]

I really appreciate your contributions to the board. You've been a delight since you joined.

I understand your opinion on Jannson. But the way we play is considered "positionless basketball" and it's for a reason. Jannson, Darius, Watson, etc. can be labeled a certain position/fit. But where they play in our offense doesn't really matter if they aren't the 1. What does matter is defensive assignments and those will be made on a game-to-game basis, based off our opponent, and matchups. For instance, West would be classified as a "3". Jarrod West isn't a 3. But he also isn't the PG, because we have Elmore. However, West's defensive abilities are perfect for guarding the opposition's PG and Elmore can slide to the least capable 2/3 of our opponent.

In CJ Burks' freshman season, he was our 6th man and would often sub in for our center (Thompson). Burks isn't a center. But our 4, Ryan Taylor, would slide down to play the 5 (at 6'5) and Loop and Burks would either play the 3/4, depending on matchup. Burks isn't a 4 either, but that's what he played sometimes in defensive assignment.

So when I talk about where a guy is/should be playing, it's based off the traditional 1-5 labeling in our "positionless" system. Really, on offense, we play 1 PG, with 3 wings, and a big; or 1 PG and 4 wings. Where they're classified in the traditional 1-5 labeling is kinda irrelevant. NBA GMs today don't fill a roster out based off the 1-5 labeling anymore. There are about 13 categories they now try to pigeonhole a player into and fill their roster out based on fits for the coach's/organization's system.


Sorry for the long and drawn out post. I'm a nerd when it comes to basketball. Good discussion, I always enjoy.

Thanks....nice to hear. I've recently getting blasted about my not so positive comments. My comments have been how i see them and only MY opinion and have never been a personal attack on any player.

Now that THAT is out of the way, Jannson will play where ever Danny asks him to play. You will not want him to but Jannson will run the point if Coach asks him too, lol. I know coach has him playing the 4-5 slot mainly out of defensive necessity. I was just stating earlier about his "natural" position being a shooting guard/small forward.

 

[herdinatl]

Sir, this is West Virginia - we drink Royal Crown from cans that were manufactured in the 1980's.

lol.....yes sir.......I'm just going by my experience visiting Jannson. Pepsi has been the prominent drink served.

 

[pdbailey]

Getting back to the original topic...

Our basketball team has no size. I think anyone who watched practice and the preseason games knew that would be an issue, but many believed that we could overcome having no size by shooting the lights out and scoring 100 points a game. We cant.

Here are our "big men" and it's not hard to see why the team is struggling.

Iran Bennett (6'9) – Still over the desired playing weight, no stamina, fouls like crazy, limited offensive game.
Ante Sustic (6'10)– Tall but doesn't rebound, good help defender but poor on-ball defender, wants to be a guard on offense
Jannson Williams (6'9 in the media guide, 6'7 or so in real life) – Arguably our best player this season. Great effort, really good SF, not a PF or C.
Mikel Beyers (6'9, again being generous) – Can shoot it, athletic, but not a good defender and looks totally lost on both ends of the floor.
Darius George (6'7) – Most improved player on the team, great effort, but really a SF and not a PF or a C.

When we run into teams who have guys 6'8 or so and taller, that rebound and play good defense we are in trouble.

For the 12th time Williams is really 6-9 and is a stretch-4.

 

[herdalicious]

lol.....yes sir.......I'm just going by my experience visiting Jannson. Pepsi has been the prominent drink served.

I think our local Pepsi distributor just has a good sales team.

Or we're a bunch of fat people who really like the extra sugar.

Shit. It's the second one, isn't it?

 

[herdinatl]

I think our local Pepsi distributor just has a good sales team.

Or we're a bunch of fat people who really like the extra sugar.

Shit. It's the second one, isn't it?

lol....no wonder I feel so at home up there !!

 

[mlblack16.]

Considering you're wrong about almost everything, I'm not too worried about basketball.

This was a post you made last year: