ADVERTISEMENT

basketball team issues

ohio herd

ohio herd

Platinum Buffalo
Gold Member
Aug 28, 2012
9,687
5,785
113
I admit I haven't watched many of the games this year. I was at the Ohio game the others I have watched on the internet. Of the 6-7 I have watched, it seems we shoot poorly , and dig ourselves in a hole. We then Get hot and can't catch up. Our rotations seem irrational at times. Other than that we seem to be close but no cigar. I am curious what some of you think is lacking. I mean DD is the same guy and we have been doing decent for the past 6 years until now. Is this his Doc 2016 season. Can we recover next year? Other than bash Danny who I think is a decent coach I would love insight from some of you.
 
That’s fine if you want to blame the coach for that

but you gotta give him credit for the cusa title. The NCAA tourney win. The CIT title. Recruiting our all time leading scorer. Falling to 17-15 a couple years ago then bouncing back to 15-7 in a Covid year.

Sorry. You don’t quit on a guy who did all that because he is struggling big time this year. That just means we have to start all over again

Dumb
 
  • Like
Reactions: ohio herd and Chevy1
Aaron Perkins said:
That’s fine if you want to blame the coach for that

but you gotta give him credit for the cusa title. The NCAA tourney win. The CIT title. Recruiting our all time leading scorer. Falling to 17-15 a couple years ago then bouncing back to 15-7 in a Covid year.

Sorry. You don’t quit on a guy who did all that because he is struggling big time this year. That just means we have to start all over again

Dumb
Click to expand...
I never discredited his past accomplishments. I'm talking about NOW. Are you happy with how he is handling the points that I discussed?
 
  • Like
Reactions: HerdGrad1999
pburg-herdfan said:
I never discredited his past accomplishments. I'm talking about NOW. Are you happy with how he is handling the points that I discussed?
Click to expand...

He is running our offense through a potential NBA player. It’s not working. But I don’t think I can fault him for having that as a plan

he is playing different players constantly. He has changed up defenses, offenses, etc the past month

it comes down to one thing. We can’t shoot. Yes. He recruited the players and that’s on him. But I just think we give him the chance to adjust in the off season.
 
  • Like
Reactions: ohio herd

"The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results."​


Before the resident superfans in their Pennington jerseys start the uprising, let me say this....

Many, if not most, of us loved Coach D and the excitement of playground ball initially. BUT, we had Elmore, Burkes, and company back then. We do not have anything near that now. It's not working....not even close. Yet, here we are. Prove me wrong, Coach. Adjust. Develop players. Recruit better. I want you ...I want us to succeed.
 
  • Like
Reactions: mike48, Ninegate, The Real SamC and 5 others
Aaron Perkins said:
That’s fine if you want to blame the coach for that

but you gotta give him credit for the cusa title. The NCAA tourney win. The CIT title. Recruiting our all time leading scorer. Falling to 17-15 a couple years ago then bouncing back to 15-7 in a Covid year.

Sorry. You don’t quit on a guy who did all that because he is struggling big time this year. That just means we have to start all over again

Dumb
Click to expand...
Please describe his efforts in recruiting our all time scoring leader?

If by recruiting efforts you mean that he was told that Elmore was already on campus with no plans to play and he asked him if he would like to play since he was already a student here, then forgive me if I don’t consider that recruiting.

If not for Jon just showing up, Dan would be Dwight Freeman light. He wouldn’t have a conference title, an NCAA win or a CIT title. He used the momentum from those accomplishments to do nothing but recruit more local kids that are better suited for DII ball and foreign projects that are never developed.

I guess we can hang on and hope our next great player decides to quit somewhere else and just enroll here on their own so Dan can “recruit” him.
 
Aaron Perkins said:
He is running our offense through a potential NBA player. It’s not working. But I don’t think I can fault him for having that as a plan

he is playing different players constantly. He has changed up defenses, offenses, etc the past month

it comes down to one thing. We can’t shoot. Yes. He recruited the players and that’s on him. But I just think we give him the chance to adjust in the off season.
Click to expand...
Likewise, he lost 9 straight with a potential nba player. Who does that?
 
  • Like
Reactions: MUfan4life2014, ThunderCat98, HerdGrad1999 and 2 others
I may be wrong but it seems to me that DD needs to hit the portal real hard and find a shooting guard who can knock down 3's all night long. This team is essentially last years team but that team was 15-7 this one is on a 9 game losing streak. Whether he stays or goes just stop with the comparisons to Jirsa and Freeman years. I say he deserves one more season to fix this. If next year we get more of the same maybe then DD needs to go back to Myrtle Beach and enjoy the sunshine.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Herd1972
pburg-herdfan said:

"The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results."​


Before the resident superfans in their Pennington jerseys start the uprising, let me say this....

Many, if not most, of us loved Coach D and the excitement of playground ball initially. BUT, we had Elmore, Burkes, and company back then. We do not have anything near that now. It's not working....not even close. Yet, here we are. Prove me wrong, Coach. Adjust. Develop players. Recruit better. I want you ...I want us to succeed.
Click to expand...
I’m not sure why people can’t see this.
His offense works when we had those players that had great chemistry and played together in AAU against each other in high school, etc. We had some really solid players that even in “hillbilly ball” did really well. Loop, Watson, Browning, Taylor, Peneva… all contributed more than our current players.
 
Yep. The stars aligned. You just don’t see 2 players ending up #1 & #5 on the all-time scoring list play together during their careers very often. DD has done his best. Assistants are weak. Time for a new hire from outside the MU orbit to come in & shake things up! We need that edge, and we don’t have it w/this group. We need energy in all respects……
 
  • Like
Reactions: TwolfHerdfan
Rock98Dog said:
Please describe his efforts in recruiting our all time scoring leader?

If by recruiting efforts you mean that he was told that Elmore was already on campus with no plans to play and he asked him if he would like to play since he was already a student here, then forgive me if I don’t consider that recruiting.

If not for Jon just showing up, Dan would be Dwight Freeman light. He wouldn’t have a conference title, an NCAA win or a CIT title. He used the momentum from those accomplishments to do nothing but recruit more local kids that are better suited for DII ball and foreign projects that are never developed.

I guess we can hang on and hope our next great player decides to quit somewhere else and just enroll here on their own so Dan can “recruit” him.
Click to expand...
the already on campus rumor is complete BS. I saw banker state that on herdfans. I guess you can debate if he fell in his lap or not, but listen to yourself...Elmore with "no plans to play" do you know any of the Elmore family? cause they are playing ball somewhere somehow. Greg White told DD he should or needed to take Elmore and DD did take him. He did fall in his lap a bit and I"m sure DD wasn't hitting the bricks hot on his trail but, he was available and DD took him and no else took him away so I give DD Elmore.

I agree we wouldn't have title or NCAA win without Elmore, but we wouldn't have had it without any of the key players that ....year Elmore, Burks and Peneva and DD's system.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not defending DD and agree he's a lazy recruiter and it has caught up with him. I just don't think we need to repeat silly rumors.
 
  • Like
Reactions: HerdGrad1999
Aaron Perkins said:
He is running our offense through a potential NBA player. It’s not working. But I don’t think I can fault him for having that as a plan

he is playing different players constantly. He has changed up defenses, offenses, etc the past month

it comes down to one thing. We can’t shoot. Yes. He recruited the players and that’s on him. But I just think we give him the chance to adjust in the off season.
Click to expand...
Potential NBA player?
 
19MU88 said:
the already on campus rumor is complete BS. I saw banker state that on herdfans. I guess you can debate if he fell in his lap or not, but listen to yourself...Elmore with "no plans to play" do you know any of the Elmore family? cause they are playing ball somewhere somehow. Greg White told DD he should or needed to take Elmore and DD did take him. He did fall in his lap a bit and I"m sure DD wasn't hitting the bricks hot on his trail but, he was available and DD took him and no else took him away so I give DD Elmore.

I agree we wouldn't have title or NCAA win without Elmore, but we wouldn't have had it without any of the key players that ....year Elmore, Burks and Peneva and DD's system.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not defending DD and agree he's a lazy recruiter and it has caught up with him. I just don't think we need to repeat silly rumors.
Click to expand...
How is it a silly rumor when, if you read what you wrote, you agreed with exactly what I said?
 
Horrible or not it was google. And I went to the second one on the list because I didn’t want to pay for the first one.
 
I have watched every game so far and have noticed several things that have led to this losing streak.

1. Lack of another scorer. I didn't say shooter because they all can shoot. Not too many can score.

2. Losing focus. Getting away from what got them where they were successful.

3. Poor shot selection at crucial points in the game. As well as poor free throw shooting in stretches.

4. Defensive lapses.

5. Being slower than other teams.

6. Being "out-toughed".

7. Lack of a "killer instinct". Not finishing a game strong.

DD can be blamed for many things. However, he cannot get on the court and score, play defense or assist anything the players are doing physically. The players are the performers on the floor and are expected to reflect their coaching. They are either playing poorly or are not coachable.

There may be many more causes, but these are what I have noticed.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Herd1972, ohio herd and MrHerd05
The Real SamC said:
Fantastic and unbelievable that there are still people defending the indefensible.

It is time for DD to go.
Click to expand...
That determination is above our pay grade. We are certainly entitled to our opinions, but we know what they say about that. As a team we are currently shooting almost 10% below the percentage we shot from 3-point range last year (26.5%- 36%). Below are the 3-point shooting percentages for 2020/21 & 2021/22
2020/21 2021/22
Kinsey 41.3% 16.7%
Taylor 41.6% 28.0%
Early 39.6% 26.0%
George 42.9% 18.9%
Byers 32.2% 27.3%
Obinna 17.2% 32.1%
Sarenac 33.3% 32.6%
Miladinovic 20.0% 31.3%
Dillon 00.0% 50.0%
Collins 25.0% 30.0%

You can blame coaching if you would like, however these are the same players and same coaches. The drop off in shooting is significant for the players that have demonstrated the ability to shoot much better. I do not have an answer and apparently you don't either. I'm sure Dan would appreciate any input from anyone that can explain why so many players have shot so poorly. I will support the coaches and the team until someone decides to make changes.
 
Aaron Perkins said:
That’s fine if you want to blame the coach for that

but you gotta give him credit for the cusa title. The NCAA tourney win. The CIT title. Recruiting our all time leading scorer. Falling to 17-15 a couple years ago then bouncing back to 15-7 in a Covid year.

Sorry. You don’t quit on a guy who did all that because he is struggling big time this year. That just means we have to start all over again

Dumb
Click to expand...
I wish more people had your perception across the board.
 
Aaron Perkins said:
My point is this. He changed up his style to fit this particular players skill set. It isn’t working. But how do we fault him for running the offense through that guy.
Click to expand...

Basketball coaches actually do more "coaching" in terms of drawing up plays, making in-game adjustments, communicating to players, etc.

He hasn't adjusted the change in style that isn't currently working, and he has a longer season to make said adjustments...what does that tell you about his ability to coach?
How is it MU can't win with an NBA caliber player on the court? CUSA probably has a few NBA level players, but goodness, its not like the ACC or Big Ten.

How often is MU down at halftime, needing to overcome double digit deficits to win? That's also been a chronic problem even with Elmore.

Speaking of, how does MU's all time leading scorer get shut down any time he plays against a P5 team?
6 pts against UMD
6 pts against Texas A&M
14 pts against UVA
14 pts against UI
16 against Xavier
15 against wvu
27 against WSU was easily his best, but that's it.
DD seems to rely heavily on his talent but gets outcoached or simply doesn't step up his efforts, when the lines are even if not tipped in the benefit of the opposition.

He's had a long time to build on the wins he did get and the program hasn't been moving up since Elmore left.
 
HerdFan300 said:
I have watched every game so far and have noticed several things that have led to this losing streak.

1. Lack of another scorer. I didn't say shooter because they all can shoot. Not too many can score.

2. Losing focus. Getting away from what got them where they were successful.

3. Poor shot selection at crucial points in the game. As well as poor free throw shooting in stretches.

4. Defensive lapses.

5. Being slower than other teams.

6. Being "out-toughed".

7. Lack of a "killer instinct". Not finishing a game strong.

DD can be blamed for many things. However, he cannot get on the court and score, play defense or assist anything the players are doing physically. The players are the performers on the floor and are expected to reflect their coaching. They are either playing poorly or are not coachable.

There may be many more causes, but these are what I have noticed.
Click to expand...
Have you noticed that when we run our offense we look like we're in slow motion compared to our opponent?
 
  • Like
Reactions: HerdFan300, W-S HerdFan and TwolfHerdfan
Herd1972 said:
You can blame coaching if you would like, however these are the same players and same coaches. The drop off in shooting is significant for the players that have demonstrated the ability to shoot much better. I do not have an answer and apparently you don't either. I'm sure Dan would appreciate any input from anyone that can explain why so many players have shot so poorly. I will support the coaches and the team until someone decides to make changes.
Click to expand...
I think part of it is mental. Hot shooting is contagious as is cold shooting. However... we don't do much to help ourselves.

1. We don't have a consistent inside threat so the defense can play a little tighter on the passing lanes and closer to the 3 point line.
2. We don't have a consistent inside out threat. Jannsen gave us that. Granted he played out of position and that hurt his production and his shooting slumped some, but he did keep the defense honest and spread the floor. At times now we are literally playing 4 against 5.
3. We have terrible spacing, ball movement and positioning on offense.
4. Kinsey has a slow first step, made more apparent by his upright position on offense and his high dribble. He can't break down the defense and then kick the ball out to the open man. When he does get a step he usually takes a tough shot over two or three defenders. We have no one inside he can dish off to to finish. We make it easy for the defense.
5. West at least could get that step and break down the defense,
6. Pick and roll? You need someone on the pick and roll that can actually catch the ball, much less score.
7. Defense can create offense. I wonder how many of Jannsen's blocks or Jerrod's steals lead to Herd points last year?

We looked lethargic against Rice last year in the tournament. We have looked the same virtually all of this year. Something seems wrong with the program.
 
  • Like
Reactions: TwolfHerdfan, W-S HerdFan and 19MU88
19MU88 said:
he was already on campus??? not going to play??? come on.

We can say he's a lazy recruiter without adding BS to it.
Click to expand...
Elmore was enrolled at Marshall as a student before he ever spoke to Dan and was playing pick up ball at the rec center.
 
  • Like
Reactions: TwolfHerdfan
Rock98Dog said:
Elmore was enrolled at Marshall as a student before he ever spoke to Dan and was playing pick up ball at the rec center.
Click to expand...
You act like he’s just a student at MU with no plans to play, playing pick up in rec, and then recruited by DD. I guess this is how half truths and urban legends grow. Anyway, DD did take him sight unseen on GWs word.

1) He enrolled in January of 2015 on a Monday, started practicing with team immediately after. He did meet DD when he enrolled. That goes along with me saying DD wasn’t hard after him and GW sold DD on him. Don’t confuse meeting him in person when enrolled and starting classes with the other stuff.

2) He was initially a walk on paying own way since VMI did not grant release. Maybe that helps fuel the urban legend. I believe he played some intramurals too but not sure if it was just rec pick up. He was initially a walk so maybe he did.

All in all you should know that he was not at MU playing rec ball when discovered. Hey I guess he fell in his lap anyway and DD is a lazy recruiter. Do we agree on that, just not some the other stuff.
 
  • Like
Reactions: KyMUfan
KyMUfan said:
I think part of it is mental. Hot shooting is contagious as is cold shooting. However... we don't do much to help ourselves.

1. We don't have a consistent inside threat so the defense can play a little tighter on the passing lanes and closer to the 3 point line.
2. We don't have a consistent inside out threat. Jannsen gave us that. Granted he played out of position and that hurt his production and his shooting slumped some, but he did keep the defense honest and spread the floor. At times now we are literally playing 4 against 5.
3. We have terrible spacing, ball movement and positioning on offense.
4. Kinsey has a slow first step, made more apparent by his upright position on offense and his high dribble. He can't break down the defense and then kick the ball out to the open man. When he does get a step he usually takes a tough shot over two or three defenders. We have no one inside he can dish off to to finish. We make it easy for the defense.
5. West at least could get that step and break down the defense,
6. Pick and roll? You need someone on the pick and roll that can actually catch the ball, much less score.
7. Defense can create offense. I wonder how many of Jannsen's blocks or Jerrod's steals lead to Herd points last year?

We looked lethargic against Rice last year in the tournament. We have looked the same virtually all of this year. Something seems wrong with the program.
Click to expand...
Your points are well stated. Not sure I agree the team has looked "lethargic....virtually all this year". We have played several very poor effort games, Toledo, Campbell, Northern Iowa, La Tech, come to mind. I suggest shooting the three more effectively would solve many of the issues you identify. Our poor shooting has pressured the entire team to force plays that are not there, play one on one, and take bad shots in traffic.
Making a higher percentage of 3's, can solve many ills. It does open up the lane for more effective drives to the basket and, if well covered, trusting a pass to the 3 point line has a 35-40% chance of being made. You are absolutely correct that "part of it is mental". Our best players have the ability to shoot far better and I am hoping they can regain their confidence or, as Coach says, "Swagger"!
 
Herd1972 said:
Not sure I agree the team has looked "lethargic....virtually all this year".
Click to expand...

Maybe not the best way to state it. We have played hard at times but I haven't seen an intensity or coordination of effort by 5 guys on the court at the same time, or by the 7 or 8 in the rotation during any one game. Or maybe the word is engagement that I am looking for. We just can't get any offensive flow going.


Herd1972 said:
I suggest shooting the three more effectively would solve many of the issues you identify.
Click to expand...

Cause and effect. Solving any of the issues I identified would also open up some looks from three. We have to play a complete game to be effective. We are too easy to defend.

There was a young man from FAU #4 Greenlee that gave the effort I like to see. 4 points but 10 assists. I told him during a dead ball I appreciated his effort. West, like him or not, gave that effort and it was contagious.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

ohio herd

Since moving to FBS in 1997

Replies
2
Views
757
Herd Nation
greengeezer
greengeezer
W

Coach Huff Status

Replies
52
Views
3K
Old Fairfield - Premium Forum
mlblack16.
mlblack16.
E

Lots of people to blame, but AD should have seen this coming

Replies
17
Views
2K
Herd Nation
exHerdSID
E
E

I think I understand why we are where we are..

Replies
11
Views
2K
Herd Nation
herdfan06
H
greengeezer

Christmas sucks

Replies
36
Views
863
Pullman Square - Non Sports Talk
i am herdman
i am herdman
ADVERTISEMENT

Latest posts

ADVERTISEMENT
Top Bottom
Back