Is no one holding out hope for the possibility of a winning record? If we can’t get past the butterflies on Saturday, then the fat lady can warm up in the rehearsal room.
Go Herd!
Go Herd!
Calling all optimists.......
- Thread starter W-S HerdFan
- Start date
Not much the be optimistic about, 5 games in and regression is what we seen from game to game. If we some how win the next 2, after what we have seen so far, I would bring optimism back into the convo
Yep, we may be the worst team in the country considering all the returning experience we have/had. We prolly have the worst QB situation in the country as well. I've watched a lot of teams with Freshmen QB's and Sophomores too and they look much more polished than our guys. That is clearly on the staff for lack of development. jmho.
I still think we will have a winning season... But lets be honest, with the talent we have coming back that was never the goal. The goal was a CUSA title, win 10 games and see where we stand at the end of the year. Now that is all but shot.
MTSU has already beaten us and FAU, so I don't see them losing 2 games to the sisters of the poor that is the rest of CUSA. And more disappointingly, even if MTSU did drop 2 league games, I don't see us running the table.
Before the season my prediction was that MU would go 9-3 and win the East Division. Now I'm thinking 7-5 and a trip to the Bahamas Bowl is more realistic. Obviously, that is not a terrible season by any means, but it's certainly not where any of our expectations were coming in.
MTSU has already beaten us and FAU, so I don't see them losing 2 games to the sisters of the poor that is the rest of CUSA. And more disappointingly, even if MTSU did drop 2 league games, I don't see us running the table.
Before the season my prediction was that MU would go 9-3 and win the East Division. Now I'm thinking 7-5 and a trip to the Bahamas Bowl is more realistic. Obviously, that is not a terrible season by any means, but it's certainly not where any of our expectations were coming in.
7-5 and the Bahamas Bowl would have been a worst case scenario for many of us before the season started. ugh!
Were a lot of people expecting 10 wins with two P5's on the schedule and a freshman QB? I do bong hits sometimes while I'm on the phone with my mom, but man that shhh is bold.
I'm not entirely surprised by what I've seen so far this season. I thought if things went better than expected we'd challenge for a division title, but probably not win it. Clearly things have been on the other end of the scale, and my gut says Green is done for the year based on the way the press is avoiding mention of it. Maybe Thomson shakes off the rust and shows some flashes, but there's an equal chance that he aggravates the injury and we finish the season with Garrett Morrell. 2018 could still live up to limited expectations, but clearly everybody over-estimated what we had.
As for the hand-wringing over our sometimes-beloved HBC, I can't disagree with people who wonder why it is that we have so much trouble establishing any sense of continuity within the program after having the same guy in place for nine years. Next season, Doc will become the longest-tenured football coach in Marshall history not named Cam Henderson, but he's still bringing in transfers sight-unseen, and then realizing in the first week of fall practice we've given a scholarship and a roster slot to a kid whose career has already ended.
I'm a big proponent of the benefits of coaching continuity, but sometimes it feels like we hired Doc in 2010, he left and took another job in 2015, and we hired Doc Holliday to come in and reboot the program from scratch in 2016, and we're now in the third year of his second tenure.
I'm not entirely surprised by what I've seen so far this season. I thought if things went better than expected we'd challenge for a division title, but probably not win it. Clearly things have been on the other end of the scale, and my gut says Green is done for the year based on the way the press is avoiding mention of it. Maybe Thomson shakes off the rust and shows some flashes, but there's an equal chance that he aggravates the injury and we finish the season with Garrett Morrell. 2018 could still live up to limited expectations, but clearly everybody over-estimated what we had.
As for the hand-wringing over our sometimes-beloved HBC, I can't disagree with people who wonder why it is that we have so much trouble establishing any sense of continuity within the program after having the same guy in place for nine years. Next season, Doc will become the longest-tenured football coach in Marshall history not named Cam Henderson, but he's still bringing in transfers sight-unseen, and then realizing in the first week of fall practice we've given a scholarship and a roster slot to a kid whose career has already ended.
I'm a big proponent of the benefits of coaching continuity, but sometimes it feels like we hired Doc in 2010, he left and took another job in 2015, and we hired Doc Holliday to come in and reboot the program from scratch in 2016, and we're now in the third year of his second tenure.
Now that we only have 11 games, I see 6-5 as best possible. IF we can't win Saturday, then we are in serious trouble
definitely can't go 7-5, be like old times prior to the 12 game season, we would be 6-5, anything less and no bowl. So this team can f up 3 more times basically but no more. Honestly, if that is the best they can do, probably need to sit at home anyways. This is position coaching at its worst, Adkins needs let go at the end of the season for sure. Not sure we can gauge anything very well on offense with the line being as bad as they have been, other than the receiver drops. I swear this almost feels like 2016, the only thing missing is the off the field rumors to cause this lol
As far as MTSU is concerned, they have a history or folding in the second half of the season, so we will get to see if that repeats itself. I hope they go on to win the whole thing if it isn't us. They are due one.
The way our schedule is playing out, FAU at home, they rely on running the ball, we are actually good at stopping that to date, but we will need to put them in the negative on turnovers to beat them imo. FIU, we lose, its on the road, our FL boys never do all that well in front of their friends. ODU, I don't know really, we could see the team that gave ECU fits and beat VT, or we could see the team that got pasted by Liberty and FAU and also lost to charlotte. @ USM, toss up, haven't been all that impressed yet, but doesn't mean they are bad. If we can't beat UTSA and UNCC, we underachieved more than we realize at this point. Guess we get to see this **** show unfold.
As far as MTSU is concerned, they have a history or folding in the second half of the season, so we will get to see if that repeats itself. I hope they go on to win the whole thing if it isn't us. They are due one.
The way our schedule is playing out, FAU at home, they rely on running the ball, we are actually good at stopping that to date, but we will need to put them in the negative on turnovers to beat them imo. FIU, we lose, its on the road, our FL boys never do all that well in front of their friends. ODU, I don't know really, we could see the team that gave ECU fits and beat VT, or we could see the team that got pasted by Liberty and FAU and also lost to charlotte. @ USM, toss up, haven't been all that impressed yet, but doesn't mean they are bad. If we can't beat UTSA and UNCC, we underachieved more than we realize at this point. Guess we get to see this **** show unfold.
I will say this, I do hope Adtkins makes me eat crow and they improve from this point on, its starts and ends with that group imo. I hate to point anyone specifically out, but he is the coach of that group and has to take the heat for it, and the praise for it if they all of a sudden remember how to be a lineman.
You do know we can't go 7-5 in the regular season due to the cancellation of the S.C. Game. But we could possibly get to 6-5 with wins over ODU, Charlotte, and UTSA.
Every body says we have talent. where is it?! Outside of Brady and a couple of others I just don’t see it. We are mediocre at best
King I think is, William and Obi show flashes. Front 7 on defense, the back 4 is questionable other than Gant lol We would be singing a different tune of the offensive line would get on board and do their jobs, that's just my take.
beefcake - I am no x's & o's guy, but I don't understand why our secondary unit isn't being coached to turn their heads back to look for the ball!! Is it that hard to do? Another ? - do we get Keon Davis back this week? We are a lot better imo when we have the 2 headed monster. Good thread...
ODU, UNCC, and UTSA are should wins, FIU is hard to say, they lost to two P5s, squeaked by ODU and beat a I-AAs and a de facto I-AA. 7-4 at best, 6-5 more likely. Bahamas vs MACer or Hawaii vs Hawaii.
If the team loses on Saturday, they will lose out
If the team loses on Saturday, they will lose out
It's the way Heater coached them and what Fuller has continued to do, basically get in their face and defend by distraction and contact instead of making plays on the ball. Nothing has really changed in our defense, he coaches just like heater did, even the lack of adjustments to how the team is going to adjust to you. It always bit them with e a QB that could take control, like Stockstill, Doughty, Tettleton, and Ragland, just off the top of my head. If you can recall, last few years anyways, most of our interceptions come to us because they overlooked a player in the passing lane while under pressure, not really the guy who was doing the defending that much. I kinda think we "can" be better with Davis in there, but as the #2 back. It just seems that when King finds confidence, he takes over and does much better than Davis, maybe he needs to stay the #1 back?? Davis hasn't learned to churn his legs, he goes down too easy for a back his size and I also think we need to plug Anderson in more, he was ripping off chunks and showing he can be a load if he makes it to the second level at least. What about the other young back we have that is highly thought of, redshirting? Knox? or Evans, can't remember. Of course none of this matter if the line doesn't grade the road.
With so many returning starters (especially on defense), many of whom have had good seasons previously, it's easy to see why people were optimistic about our talent level. You would assume that guys who are returning starters would be even better than previous seasons.
On offense –
WR - Brady
WR - Marcel Williams
RB - Davis
RB - King
OL - Brown
OL - Molette
OL - Ulmer
On defense –
DL - Bee
DL - Tyler
DL - Hames
LB - Young
LB - Couch
LB - Hancock
LB - Hernandez
CB - Jackson
S - Gant
jackson has underperformed, he can keep pace when he isn't making a bonehead play and staying right with the receiver, but he doesn't fight for the ball, rest of what you listed is doing well or ok enough for production.........other than the lineman. They either haven't adjusted to cramsey or adkins is throwing them off, i have to believe its one of the 2.
I understand we have a crap load of returning starters but they still make the same mistakes they have always made. They really haven’t gotten much better. So at the end of the day maybe all of these guys aren’t as talented as we all thought
Were these QBs playing for P5 schools? Most of the QBs mentioned in previous arguments were 4-star plus recruits that were highly regarded coming out of HS. Recruits at that level tend to be much more polished than your 3-star or less recruits when they show up on campus. That's usually why they were rated much higher.
I don't believe anyone coaches that way anymore. It is rare to see a DB at the FBS or NFL level even turn their heads around anymore in man coverage. I believe they may be teaching them differently than in the past.
Nope. Some were G5. Troy, App St. Ark St., OU. We just don't develop QB's and Doc sucks at recruiting QB's it seems. Cato and Fro were the only ones worth squat. And yes, I include CL in that group. jmo
You are still missing the biggest issue. Our QBs had zero FBS experience to start the season and are learning a new offense. It really is like we are starting over with T-FR QBs. There are going to be issues in this type of situation. I believe "Legg" picked the wrong QB or settled for the easy recruitment in recruiting a few times in some of our previous classes, and don't think for a second he wasn't the one making that decision and then having Doc sign off on it.
Troy - The starting QB was a JR and his backup was 3-star/5.6 recruit that is in his 3rd year in the program.
Appy - Thomas is a good find as a 2-star guy that came out of a very good HS program, but he is in his 3rd year in the program and system.
Ark St - Their QB is a 3-yr starter and a SR and was a JUCO that was rated a 3-star/5.6
Ohio - Their QB is a 2-yr starter and a JR and was a JUCO QB that was rated a 2-star/5.4.
I would give the JUCO coaches of the guys from Ark St and Ohio the credit for their development as those guys came in as starters from day 1, and I give the Appy coaches props for the development of their guy. Troy recruited two guys from solid HS programs so they did a good job with these guys as well. Still, none of these guys were as inexperienced as Green coming in and Thomson really has only had a short amount of time to get comfortable in the offense due to the shoulder soreness that prevented him from taking extended reps during preseason camp and the time leading up to game 1.
You are correct about their experience but at the same time, our kids just aren’t developing as they should. Cato did because he worked his ass off. Fro - the same. No other Doc QB recruits have panned out, CL was Ok but a head case and cancer. The others overhyped or left because they weren’t making progress on the depth chart.
I guess what I should be saying is we shouldn’t be in a position to rely on a freshmen to come in and start. Cato, Litton and now Green. Am I wrong in that thought?
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Some of you don't realize that if we are 5-6 after the FIU game we can still make a bowl game.
Hammy will throw some $$$ at a school like Morehead State or a FBS team who didn't have 12 regular season games to play in the Joan on the first Sat. in Dec. He and Doc really want that highly coveted CUSA Bahamas Bowl slot, don't you know!!
Hammy will throw some $$$ at a school like Morehead State or a FBS team who didn't have 12 regular season games to play in the Joan on the first Sat. in Dec. He and Doc really want that highly coveted CUSA Bahamas Bowl slot, don't you know!!
I disagree about Legg making the decision on anything recruitment wise. Doc makes his own decisions with recruiting period. For example, there were many grad transfer QB's on the market and we settled on Thomson. Legg was already gone.
If we go 5-6 we should put moving signs in docs front yard
Correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't the NCAA only count one win against an FCS team toward bowl eligibility? I remember years back (10 or more) Rutgers having two on the schedule, and it coming up at the time that the second one wouldn't count.
Normally that is true... But they would likely grant an exception since we had a game cancelled. With more bowl games than ever they are going to need teams to fill slots.
It is way too early to start figuring in back door ways into bowls. CUSA has 8 teams with 3 or more wins, and 7 slots. Assuming other conferences have empty slots or whatever, a 6-5 or contrived to be 6-6 MU offers little and would be passed over
It comes down to this weekend. A 1-5 ODU, and yes, I know who the one was, and we are 4-2, with games left versus several bad to mediocre teams. Lose and we are 3-3 and the team will stop listening, thug out, go through the motions, get arrested, quit, transfer, and so on and we will probably lose out, excepting maybe UNCC which is crap.
It comes down to this weekend. A 1-5 ODU, and yes, I know who the one was, and we are 4-2, with games left versus several bad to mediocre teams. Lose and we are 3-3 and the team will stop listening, thug out, go through the motions, get arrested, quit, transfer, and so on and we will probably lose out, excepting maybe UNCC which is crap.
You people make me sick all you do is sit behind your computer and bitch. I am willing to bet big bucks if D'antoni and the basketball team starts going the wrong direction and you will be talking about his team failing too. You people need to get a life and stop bitching every time we lose a game. Doc wins almost 60% of his game and I love this idea let's fire the coach. Who the hell do you think is going to make us this power house. OMG I forgot Bob Pruett!! Josh Stowers is so right about you critics you all bitch but have no solutions. I am also blown away that you think every kid wants to come to MU are you kidding me this is WV and the most northern school in a southern league. Just 1 time I wish you had the opportunity to talk to kids like Josh does and I guarantee you will find out we are not thought of by kids the way our fan base thinks we are. We are a very small fish in a huge pond and you would find that out. BTW there is not enough WV kids to win with either. I also love the critics bitching about not beating out Ohio State for the Nester's of the world or Tennessee for Locklear. You compare those facilities to ours and it is laughable. I love Doc and MU but my god he is not a miracle worker!!
One more point you talk about Doc not winning championships here is fact for you critics Michigan has no Big 10 championships in the last 10 years. I guess Michigan is not a great program since they have no titles in the last 10 years? Only 1 team wins a championship each year you people forget that fact. .
One more point you talk about Doc not winning championships here is fact for you critics Michigan has no Big 10 championships in the last 10 years. I guess Michigan is not a great program since they have no titles in the last 10 years? Only 1 team wins a championship each year you people forget that fact. .
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If Marshall wins 6 games we will be in a bowl game... If we win 5 games and either beat a 1-AA team CUSA title game weekend, or get a waiver from the NCAA, we will be in a bowl game.
There are 40 bowl games this year (and yes, I agree that is too damn many) so any team that is eligible will be on the field somewhere. No team that has 6 wins will be passed over the way UTSA was last year.
Well stated, Josh Stowers, Sr. Are you a Duke fan as well?
Welp, I am pretty damn happy. 2 days and counting for a thread about football that has not included a single derogatory comment about a fellow poster. Can we keep it going? I have to say it will be a huge disappointment if the Herd doesn't show up in Norfolk. Expecting a win ....
Christ, you're a moron.
The post directly above yours called somebody else "Josh Stowers Sr." That wasn't meant as a compliment to that poster.
Legg was certainly the decision maker in terms of what he wanted at the QB position for "his" offense, and was heavily involved in those recruiting decisions. He did not recruit Thomson, but he originally wanted Kai Locksley at QB in the 2018 class. He has been a failure at UTEP.
There is a very organized recruiting process in place that is used to identify players for evaluation and then offers and also to determine how many recruits we need to have at each position. The process is very meticulous as I understand it with Doc only involved at a high level. The RC runs the process for each cycle and the coaches and coordinators doing the evaluations, rankings, and decision making on recruits. Doc reviews the information and signs off if he approves. The process is his baby, but his really is only involved at a high level.
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