Coach Stowers

[banker6796]

Heard you were saying John wasn't mediocre with a .605 winning percentage because he ranks 173rd in winning percentage all time among coaches who have coached at least 10 years. There are so many things that make that a meaningless stat.

First, how many coaches have been a head coach for 10 years in the history of football that includes at least some FBS seasons? That seems to be the criteria for the list.

The list I saw only showed 250 entries. John was 173rd on that list with the lowest winning percentage showed being .557 and the highest being .881 being the highest.

Second, Of the coaches that have coached 10 years as a HC, where does John rank in the number of years ending with a conference championship? I know John is at .100, but what about the others?

Third, of the coaches that have 10 years as a HC, where does John rank among them from a SOS perspective?

Fourth, there are 25 active coaches on that list, 19 have a better winning percentage than John. Three of the five below John have outperformed him in their current position. The 2 that haven't are Charlie Strong and Air Force's coach who plays under different expectations.

Simple fact is that to remain a HC for 10 years you have to win, I think it would be hard to find too many guys that got that long that had a sub .500 record, at least in the modern era. So essentially, any coach that is a head coach for at least 10 years has a floor winning percentage of .501 and a realistic ceiling of .800 (even though a handful have exceeded that). So where does .605 fall within the range of .501 to .800? Yep, lower end of coaches who have "earned" that tenure.

It's funny that John at .605 is so close to Nehlen at .609. His mentor and another coach with a long tenure who built a winning percentage losing to good teams, beating bad teams (manipulated with having extra OOC games), not winning championships, and few marquee wins in his long career.

Nehlen is the poster child for long tenured mediocrity, and John is just slightly worse than Nehlen.

 

[TwolfHerdfan]

Many programs would fire coaches with such an average/ mediocre winning percentage. We embrace them.

 

[i am herdman]

Many programs would fire coaches with such an average/ mediocre winning percentage. We embrace them.

Especially when at one point you were a top g5 program. One with rankings ans Heisman candidates. A program that won more games than anybody in an entire decade.

Mike Hamrick and Doc have turned the program into nothing but mediocre. I know there is a football God who will correct this.

 

[W-S HerdFan]

Maybe the contract won’t be extended....Duke seems to have wooden water-seeking device tuned in. Let’s hope so!

 

[cottrell75]

Calling him Coach is as disrespectful as calling John, John. Stowers is in a non-coaching roll, so he’d be more of an anal-yst.

 

[mlblack16.]

Bump for Coach Stowers.

@Josh Stowers you seem to have missed this important thread addressed to you.

 

[Josh Stowers]

Bump for Coach Stowers.

@Josh Stowers you seem to have missed this important thread addressed to you.

Oh no.....I read it. I think he's wrong in what he's saying, but like I told someone the other day, it's pointless to argue with someone that refuses to listen to reason. You guys are going to poke holes in everything the man does so it doesn't matter. I had someone say to me the other day, "there is a group of people that's going to get what they have coming to them at some point" and I tend to believe that.

 

[TwolfHerdfan]

Oh no.....I read it. I think he's wrong in what he's saying, but like I told someone the other day, it's pointless to argue with someone that refuses to listen to reason. You guys are going to poke holes in everything the man does so it doesn't matter. I had someone say to me the other day, "there is a group of people that's going to get what they have coming to them at some point" and I tend to believe that.

So you are implying that the next coach will not have much success and sink the football program into further irrelevancy?

 

[Josh Stowers]

So you are implying that the next coach will not have much success and sink the football program into further irrelevancy?

Like I stated on the premium board, I think the three tier system will come into play no matter who the coach is.

 

[i am herdman]

Like I stated on the premium board, I think the three tier system will come into play no matter who the coach is.

Well can we at least not be mediocre at whatever tier we are at?

 

[riflearm2]

I had someone say to me the other day, "there is a group of people that's going to get what they have coming to them at some point" and I tend to believe that.

So some of us are going to face the wrath of having to suffer through one championship per decade in the worst conference in the country and numerous losses to historical FBS powerhouses like Charlotte, Old Dominion, and the others?

Remind us again how we aren't already experts at handling that?

 

[cottrell75]

TwolfHerdfan said:

↑



So you are implying that the next coach will not have much success and sink the football program into further irrelevancy?

Like I stated on the premium board, I think the three tier system will come into play no matter who the coach is.
[/quote]
Does John(Doc if you are nasty), have us in the enlightenment phase now?

 

[Marine03]

Oh no.....I read it. I think he's wrong in what he's saying, but like I told someone the other day, it's pointless to argue with someone that refuses to listen to reason. You guys are going to poke holes in everything the man does so it doesn't matter. I had someone say to me the other day, "there is a group of people that's going to get what they have coming to them at some point" and I tend to believe that.

Explain to us exactly what this means. Is this some sort of threat that John is going to miraculously get all his shit together and win a title, get to an access bowl, or something much greater than that? And in doing so you and Perkins and a few other homers and Superfans are going to call us out on it?

 

[TwolfHerdfan]

Oh no.....I read it. I think he's wrong in what he's saying, but like I told someone the other day, it's pointless to argue with someone that refuses to listen to reason. You guys are going to poke holes in everything the man does so it doesn't matter. I had someone say to me the other day, "there is a group of people that's going to get what they have coming to them at some point" and I tend to believe that.

In reading the last sentence - it reinforces what most of us know. Those in the Schewey see the fan base as a bunch of inbred little people who know nothing of which they speak. The general tone of that statement reads as extremely arrogant and standoffish. And they wonder why attendance numbers dwindle and donations stagnant.

 

[HerdFan73]

Oh no.....I read it. I think he's wrong in what he's saying, but like I told someone the other day, it's pointless to argue with someone that refuses to listen to reason. You guys are going to poke holes in everything the man does so it doesn't matter. I had someone say to me the other day, "there is a group of people that's going to get what they have coming to them at some point" and I tend to believe that.

What is “wrong” about a factual stat? He’s one of the worst performing among active coaches with equal or greater tenure.

We don’t have to poke holes in anything Holiday does, the holes are already there. A very small contingent of people just choose to ignore them.

 

[Josh Stowers]

In reading the last sentence - it reinforces what most of us know. Those in the Schewey see the fan base as a bunch of inbred little people who know nothing of which they speak. The general tone of that statement reads as extremely arrogant and standoffish. And they wonder why attendance numbers dwindle and donations stagnant.

The conversation was with someone not employed by the university/AD but has quite a bit of knowledge of things.

 

[riflearm2]

The conversation was with someone not employed by the university/AD but has quite a bit of knowledge of things.

So what does it even mean? Marshall fans should be happy for never winning in a horrible conference, because Marshall will soon get a lot less competitive in the conference? Marshall should be happy they are even at the same level of football as other schools, since there is going to be a split faster than expected? Marshall is going to drop to FCS, so we should have been satisfied with the very mediocre results we were getting under John?

Why the cryptic comment? Why not just explain what the fvck your buddy implied?

 

[TwolfHerdfan]

The conversation was with someone not employed by the university/AD but has quite a bit of knowledge of things.

Appreciate the info. All I can say is, hope that dude enjoys all the empty seats around him; or in the box.

 

[i am herdman]

Oh no.....I read it. I think he's wrong in what he's saying, but like I told someone the other day, it's pointless to argue with someone that refuses to listen to reason. You guys are going to poke holes in everything the man does so it doesn't matter. I had someone say to me the other day, "there is a group of people that's going to get what they have coming to them at some point" and I tend to believe that.

What's coming to them? The wrath of Zeuss or what?

 

[banker6796]

Let's see, we significantly dropped down in competition in the 2013-2014 timeframe and dominated all the little, pesky, start up programs we were forced to play. However, since those programs/schools care about football and are getting better, we now have to live with the fact that they will all become better than us because our plan is to stay stagnant and just keep doing the same thing.

Is that the stellar message you are getting from your high placed sources, just in different words? Because that is the only mindset that creates a reality where we shouldn't reasonably be expected to continue to dominate teams that we have recently dominated. If they continue to work to get better and we continue to work just as hard, how do we get left behind?

And on the getting better thing - have we not funded the IPF, updated the locker room, and increased John's salary all post 2014? Why haven't we gotten better along with everyone else?

 

[ARandomHerdFan]

What's coming to them? The wrath of Zeuss or what?

Are you talking about Zeus the Greek god in the sky, or Dr. Seuss the beloved children's book author guy?

Lightning bolt? Literary jolt?

Whatever the approach, it's better than watching John coach.

 

[Marine03]

The conversation was with someone not employed by the university/AD but has quite a bit of knowledge of things.

Perkins?

 

[i am herdman]

Are you talking about Zeus the Greek god in the sky, or Dr. Seuss the beloved children's book author guy?

Lightning bolt? Literary jolt?

Whatever the approach, it's better than watching John coach.

Mixture of two and the lightning will get to you!

 

[mlblack16.]

The conversation was with someone not employed by the university/AD but has quite a bit of knowledge of things.

Perkins?

Get real

 

[19MU88]

In reading the last sentence - it reinforces what most of us know. Those in the Schewey see the fan base as a bunch of inbred little people who know nothing of which they speak. The general tone of that statement reads as extremely arrogant and standoffish. And they wonder why attendance numbers dwindle and donations stagnant.

ridiculously silly comment.

 

[HerdFan73]

ridiculously silly comment.

Why? It’s obvious that those in the AD couldnt care less about what the VAST MAJORITY of the MU fan base thinks or wants.

The majority of the fan base is not in the big green, and Hamrick has let it slip in public in the past how much respect he has for those fans not in the Big Green. (As most MU fans are not).

 

[19MU88]

Why? It’s obvious that those in the AD couldnt care less about what the VAST MAJORITY of the MU fan base thinks or wants.

The majority of the fan base is not in the big green, and Hamrick has let it slip in public in the past how much respect he has for those fans not in the Big Green. (As most MU fans are not).

I don't think Hamrick is perfect and I've never been a Doc fan and am not happy he's still here. I also don't think that one tweet was the best choice but I also think how bad it was exaggerated by many. And for goodness sake, I hope all of our future ADs listen to the season ticket holders and BG members first and not a bunch of "customers" that don't donate nor do they buy season tickets. Our program will really be a shit show when that happens.

 

[W-S HerdFan]

“You can please some of the people all of the time, you can please all of the people some of the time, but you can't please all of the people all of the time”.”

Anyone care to argue with the above? I am going to assume 100% of the bitchers and moaners would reluctantly have to pull the “no” lever.
Always has been that way, always will be. (good Gawd, I’m starting to sound like Sam!) . Whoever is in charge has to make decisions he/she/it (!!) knows won’t please everyone. Again, any of you on this thread that wants to take a contrary position to the universally true statement above? I would love to read your defense of your stance.....

 

[i am herdman]

Why? It’s obvious that those in the AD couldnt care less about what the VAST MAJORITY of the MU fan base thinks or wants.

The majority of the fan base is not in the big green, and Hamrick has let it slip in public in the past how much respect he has for those fans not in the Big Green. (As most MU fans are not).

Haven't renewed mine yet. Why throw money at it? Plenty of other charities to give it to. They have settled and handed out contract extensions like candy. Sitting and looking at the renewal form and lay it back down. Arrogant mediocrity on their part

 

[i am herdman]

“You can please some of the people all of the time, you can please all of the people some of the time, but you can't please all of the people all of the time”.”

Anyone care to argue with the above? I am going to assume 100% of the bitchers and moaners would reluctantly have to pull the “no” lever.
Always has been that way, always will be. (good Gawd, I’m starting to sound like Sam!) . Whoever is in charge has to make decisions he/she/it (!!) knows won’t please everyone. Again, any of you on this thread that wants to take a contrary position to the universally true statement above? I would love to read your defense of your stance.....

My biggest beef is the contact extensions and the acceptance of mediocrity or worse. That's what put marshall in a bad spot.

I could give two shits what some athletic director of a college thinks of me.

 

[herdfan93]

If IG is still the qb to beat heading into fall camp my season ticket money is going to the tip off club. In this scenario, money well spent.

 

[Herd1972]

Haven't renewed mine yet. Why throw money at it? Plenty of other charities to give it to. They have settled and handed out contract extensions like candy. Sitting and looking at the renewal form and lay it back down. Arrogant mediocrity on their part

The young men and women accepting athletic scholarships to play for us do not make any decisions about the hiring or firing of coaches or contract extensions. I will support and encourage them through the purchase of season tickets and attending games. It helps to think of them as your own children. They are children to someone and deserve our support for choosing to accept an athletic scholarship with the University we all love. I do not agree with every decision made by a coach or administrator. Focusing on student athletes keeps my support in perspective.

 

[i am herdman]

The young men and women accepting athletic scholarships to play for us do not make any decisions about the hiring or firing of coaches or contract extensions. I will support and encourage them through the purchase of season tickets and attending games. It helps to think of them as your own children. They are children to someone and deserve our support for choosing to accept an athletic scholarship with the University we all love. I do not agree with every decision made by a coach or administrator. Focusing on student athletes keeps my support in perspective.

So, there are other children who need money as well, more than D1 athletes and their scholarships are going to be paid for regardless. These are not starvring children. They play a sport in college which is entertainment Maybe when Marshall has to start using the money from somwhere else they will realize they need to fix it. If Marshall can pay a football coach $800,000 a year an give multiple contract extensions the athletes are not going to starve. THe only way they will fixe it or get better is because of money, being hit in the wallet.

 

[Herd1972]

So, there are other children who need money as well, more than D1 athletes and their scholarships are going to be paid for regardless. These are not starvring children. They play a sport in college which is entertainment Maybe when Marshall has to start using the money from somwhere else they will realize they need to fix it. If Marshall can pay a football coach $800,000 a year an give multiple contract extensions the athletes are not going to starve. THe only way they will fixe it or get better is because of money, being hit in the wallet.

Not sure what you are implying. On average Marshall students receive $11,418 in financial aid. There are over 220 female athletes receiving an average of $10,000 in aid from their athletic scholarship. Male athletes (200) receive an average of over $16,000. Over half of the student athletes are receiving partial scholarships. There are over 55 academic scholarships available including the WV promise Scholarship based strictly on academic merit for graduating WV High School students. Athletic scholarships is one of several ways to receive financial aid. Students apply for federally funded Pell Grants and Work Study assignments at the school. None of these are making students rich, but it is helping them to prepare for a much better future. Most student athletes are not naive enough to believe they can make a living playing sports. The goal is education and yes all of us are entertained. To suggest these kids are somehow getting support not available to non-athletes is disingenuous. Only 2 of Marshall 14 sports teams pays for themselves, football and Men's Basketball. The demands of practice time, time away from classes for travel, puts a great deal of pressure on student athletes. They represent our University and I want to support and encourage these sons and daughters of Marshall. I happen to enjoy attending our athletic events as well! Have done so through "thick" and "thin" since I became a Marshall student in 1964. Will continue until I'm physically not able to do so.

 

[JamesSlade]

Heard you were saying John wasn't mediocre with a .605 winning percentage because he ranks 173rd in winning percentage all time among coaches who have coached at least 10 years. There are so many things that make that a meaningless stat.

First, how many coaches have been a head coach for 10 years in the history of football that includes at least some FBS seasons? That seems to be the criteria for the list.

The list I saw only showed 250 entries. John was 173rd on that list with the lowest winning percentage showed being .557 and the highest being .881 being the highest.

Second, Of the coaches that have coached 10 years as a HC, where does John rank in the number of years ending with a conference championship? I know John is at .100, but what about the others?

Third, of the coaches that have 10 years as a HC, where does John rank among them from a SOS perspective?

Fourth, there are 25 active coaches on that list, 19 have a better winning percentage than John. Three of the five below John have outperformed him in their current position. The 2 that haven't are Charlie Strong and Air Force's coach who plays under different expectations.

Simple fact is that to remain a HC for 10 years you have to win, I think it would be hard to find too many guys that got that long that had a sub .500 record, at least in the modern era. So essentially, any coach that is a head coach for at least 10 years has a floor winning percentage of .501 and a realistic ceiling of .800 (even though a handful have exceeded that). So where does .605 fall within the range of .501 to .800? Yep, lower end of coaches who have "earned" that tenure.

It's funny that John at .605 is so close to Nehlen at .609. His mentor and another coach with a long tenure who built a winning percentage losing to good teams, beating bad teams (manipulated with having extra OOC games), not winning championships, and few marquee wins in his long career.

Nehlen is the poster child for long tenured mediocrity, and John is just slightly worse than Nehlen.

Nehlen had seasons of
9-3
9-3
9-3
8-4
11-1
8-4
11-1
8-4
8-4

With some down seasons from rebuilding thrown in between. He also took over a program that was TERRIBLE. Was in position twice to win a NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP and all while playing programs like Penn State, Miami, Boston College, Pitt ect.

Two compare what John has done at Marshall to what Nehlen did at WVU based on a win percentage is laughable and shows your ignorance to these matters. John took over a program used to winning also and has not built anything on it. He's playing JuCo level teams to bottom feeder P5 level teams and winning 60 percent.

He's worse than Nehlen. By far

 

[herdalicious]

 

[i am herdman]

Not sure what you are implying. On average Marshall students receive $11,418 in financial aid. There are over 220 female athletes receiving an average of $10,000 in aid from their athletic scholarship. Male athletes (200) receive an average of over $16,000. Over half of the student athletes are receiving partial scholarships. There are over 55 academic scholarships available including the WV promise Scholarship based strictly on academic merit for graduating WV High School students. Athletic scholarships is one of several ways to receive financial aid. Students apply for federally funded Pell Grants and Work Study assignments at the school. None of these are making students rich, but it is helping them to prepare for a much better future. Most student athletes are not naive enough to believe they can make a living playing sports. The goal is education and yes all of us are entertained. To suggest these kids are somehow getting support not available to non-athletes is disingenuous. Only 2 of Marshall 14 sports teams pays for themselves, football and Men's Basketball. The demands of practice time, time away from classes for travel, puts a great deal of pressure on student athletes. They represent our University and I want to support and encourage these sons and daughters of Marshall. I happen to enjoy attending our athletic events as well! Have done so through "thick" and "thin" since I became a Marshall student in 1964. Will continue until I'm physically not able to do so.

I don't really care. Appreciate the info, but I am not one to have a bleeding heart of this matter.

 

[banker6796]

Nehlen had seasons of
9-3
9-3
9-3
8-4
11-1
8-4
11-1
8-4
8-4

With some down seasons from rebuilding thrown in between. He also took over a program that was TERRIBLE. Was in position twice to win a NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP and all while playing programs like Penn State, Miami, Boston College, Pitt ect.

Two compare what John has done at Marshall to what Nehlen did at WVU based on a win percentage is laughable and shows your ignorance to these matters. John took over a program used to winning also and has not built anything on it. He's playing JuCo level teams to bottom feeder P5 level teams and winning 60 percent.

He's worse than Nehlen. By far

The only reason Nehlen even won 60% of his games is because he could manipulate the schedule for wins as an independent and then had the luxury of only playing 7 conference games once in the Big East, and two of those were Temple and Rutgers who sucked every single year. I will admit that he was the king of the MAC while coaching at WVU, but against teams that weren't part of what is now called G5, FCS, and the aforementioned Temple and Rutgers, he was barely a .500 coach.

He and John Holliday are one in the same, cupcake eaters that can't digest steak.

 

[Herd1972]

I don't really care. Appreciate the info, but I am not one to have a bleeding heart of this matter.

Bleeding heart isn't necessary. information provided simply to inform how students, in general, survive financially. Athletes are not the only people getting assistance.