Conference Expansion
- Thread starter Mike Gwinn
- Start date
They needed a 12th member to have a championship game for football. Coastal Carolina got more votes than Eastern Kentucky.
I was hoping C-USA would consider Coastal Carolina. GREAT place to visit on game days & an easy drive from West Virginia Plus, a lot of HERD graduates live within 2-3 hours of Myrtle Beach. They have aggressively upgraded their facilitie$.....baseball field expansion in the millions (on campus too); football stadium is being expanded.....their basketball facility was host to the Big South tourney last March (I attended). Good catch by the SunBelt.
HerdZilla22 (Sweeney in Charlotte).
HerdZilla22 (Sweeney in Charlotte).
CCU is a good choice for the SBC. The Myrtle Beach area is growing fast (70K in 1960, 270K today), and changing from just a vacation community to a residential one, with plenty of retirees (from elsewhere, with $$, and looking for something local to hang on to). CCU is over 10K students. USC and Clemson, while they have true statewide followings, are outside the market.
To you guys that wanted EKU, EKU would be kidding itself. Its 20 miles down the interstate from Big Blue. Big Blue is going to soak up 99% of the attention. Statewide, really, but certainly in the Lexington metro area. Liberty, well, we all know what it demands of its students. That makes recruiting a challenge.
To you guys that wanted EKU, EKU would be kidding itself. Its 20 miles down the interstate from Big Blue. Big Blue is going to soak up 99% of the attention. Statewide, really, but certainly in the Lexington metro area. Liberty, well, we all know what it demands of its students. That makes recruiting a challenge.
Couldn't agree more. This is why the P-5 wants definite separation. Our conference could be accused of the same thing I guess with Charlotte and ODU. Keep increasing the numbers of Bowl division and the bigger separation line is going to happen.
so my understanding of the 21st century college football handbook indicates adding a new FBS school means there will be 5 new bowl games.
happy days
happy days
Do you guys mean "regulation" like some kind of rules about the standard to move up or stay up, or "relegation" , as in Eurosoccer, where like if you finish last in the ACC, you get put back in CUSA for the next year and whoever wins CUSA takes your spot?
Regulation would violate anti-trust. If a school meets the criteria, they meet the criteria. You cannot just tell a school it cannot play I-A, if it is at least as big/draws as many fans/has as many boosters/spends as much money/so on as the lowest current I-A member.
Relegation would be killed by ESPN, et al. They don't want people to understand just how soft the bottom 3 or 4 in the "power 5" leagues are, compared to the top of the "group of 5".
Regulation would violate anti-trust. If a school meets the criteria, they meet the criteria. You cannot just tell a school it cannot play I-A, if it is at least as big/draws as many fans/has as many boosters/spends as much money/so on as the lowest current I-A member.
Relegation would be killed by ESPN, et al. They don't want people to understand just how soft the bottom 3 or 4 in the "power 5" leagues are, compared to the top of the "group of 5".
I get that there was a need for a 12th team, but come on. There's a huge gap forming in the FBS and it's only going to get wider as more teams like Coastal Carolina join the fray. They bring nothing football wise, and we all know that football is the king of sports right now.
Hell, within the next few years the Power 5 could very well break away from the Group of 5. Then what? CC gets to brag about how they were in the FBS?
Exactly
And there is a criteria that about 20-25 G5 schools do not meet every year but it isn't enforced by the NCAA
[QUOTE="Herd Fever, post: 154305, member: 934"
And there is a criteria that about 20-25 G5 schools do not meet every year but it isn't enforced by the NCAA[/QUOTE]
I agree with that 100%. Starting with claimed live gate numbers. The MAC, in particular, just counts the people actually there and multiplies by 100.
Personally, I think the whole "cost of attendence" (pay the players) fiasco will take care of it. Even well above the MAC level, we are seeing teams with 10000 "cost" (pay) differences between different teams in the same conference.
But, yeah, I would be happy with a live gate rule that requires a legitimate, audited, real 25K live gate (paid, not comped) to be Div I. That takes out about 1/3rd of CUSA and the SBC, and almost all of THE AMERICAN!!!!!!! right there.
And there is a criteria that about 20-25 G5 schools do not meet every year but it isn't enforced by the NCAA[/QUOTE]
I agree with that 100%. Starting with claimed live gate numbers. The MAC, in particular, just counts the people actually there and multiplies by 100.
Personally, I think the whole "cost of attendence" (pay the players) fiasco will take care of it. Even well above the MAC level, we are seeing teams with 10000 "cost" (pay) differences between different teams in the same conference.
But, yeah, I would be happy with a live gate rule that requires a legitimate, audited, real 25K live gate (paid, not comped) to be Div I. That takes out about 1/3rd of CUSA and the SBC, and almost all of THE AMERICAN!!!!!!! right there.
Within the G5 these are the teams I would relegate to the 1AA level based on Attendance, APR, Facilities, Career Wins and Losses, and Bowl Victories
MAC
Buffalo
Eastern Michigan
Akron
Kent State
UMASS
Miami(OH)
Ball State
Central Michigan
CUSA
ODU
UNCC
FIU
UNT
UAB
Sun Belt
ULM
NM State
Coastal Carolina
Idaho
Troy
Georgia State
Georgia Southern
Texas State
AAC
Tulane
Temple
Tulsa
SMU
Mountain West
San Jose State
Wyoming
MAC
Buffalo
Eastern Michigan
Akron
Kent State
UMASS
Miami(OH)
Ball State
Central Michigan
CUSA
ODU
UNCC
FIU
UNT
UAB
Sun Belt
ULM
NM State
Coastal Carolina
Idaho
Troy
Georgia State
Georgia Southern
Texas State
AAC
Tulane
Temple
Tulsa
SMU
Mountain West
San Jose State
Wyoming
Actually both, if you want to move up, gotta meet some guidelines, if you want to stay there gotta keep it up (not a Viagra pun lol). Like friggin enforcing the 15K rule, maybe even a stadium size requirement like that of yesteryear. There simply are programs at this level that do not belong and there are programs at the championship division that could move up. We took on of them in ODU, then you have programs like Montana, Delaware etc that could if they wanted to. I don't think I need to go into who could be moved down, several MAC and Sunbelt programs meet that criteria, and I would even venture to say FIU as well.
I a
I agree with quite a bit you listed, but some I don't. North Texas, SMU, Tulsa, Even Tulane and others like that have invested in athletics with facility upgrades or new. Just being honest though, there aren't very many G-5's that have good attendance, something ranging from 20K average and up. We are lucky to be one of the few.
CC has hardly done poorly since starting football in 2003. 12 seasons in, and they've won at east a share of their conference seven times (4 of last 5 seasons), have made the FBS tournament five times (4 of last 5 seasons), and have several players in the NFL. They're a great choice by the SBC - good football team in a large, growing area.
And as for the idea that schools moving up to FCS will encourage the P5 to break away sooner? I'm of the opinion that they will never fully break away, and would actually prefer more FCS teams to move up. After all, most P5 schools are no longer actively scheduling FCS opponents, so it's becoming harder to find non-P5 opponents.
Dave Weekley had OU's radio guy on a couple of weeks ago. They were speculating that this whole "cost of attendence" pay the players deal would eventually break up the MAC, as it is about 50-50 between those that can and can't afford it. I can see that happening.
My 2 cents, The answer is not expansion ( no one to really consider). The G5 best option is a well planned merger of the best of the G5s that would create a strong conference with serious consideration for post season.
Pretty Much the best 36 G5 schools need to split into a Eastern and Western Conference 9 game conference schedule 3 OOCs Conference Championship and the 2 conference champions play each other for the right to play in the Access bowl
Watching North Dakota State vs Montana last weekend showed me how great FCS/1AA can actually be. Good crowd, good action, great schools. And honestly, sometimes I wish MU could go back to that. Getting 25-30k people in the stands, no worries about the school's that print their own money, and focusing on getting to the real form of playoffs.
Are you serious? Going backwards? Ok, here is fall out as far as fan experience if we did something like that, and its a big one. We never would have gotten VT, WVU, KSU, CU (they were big east at the time), upcoming Purdue, Pitt, UL, NCState, Navy.....to ever come in the Joan, period, no ifs ands or buts. That's not even to mention teams even from the sunbelt, AAC, CUSA, MWC etc, you could forget ever having those in the Joan as well. 1A simply does not play away games to 1AA schools.
I laugh when people say we should go back to the 1AA level.
I'm talking more about the experience, not the level of competition. I understand fully that reverting back to the FCS level would be a bad idea, as far as competition goes.
I would rather play ODU and UNCC then Wofford, Western Carolina, and Liberty
Level of experience is related directly to the level of competition, you can not separate the two. Hey playoffs are great, and with some luck the slots will increase in our division in the future. Playing for an FCS championship matters to the school who is playing it, but it doesn't matter to anyone else in the rest of the country. We strive to matter to ourselves and the rest of the country. I see no fall off from playing FBS football over FCS in fan experience, for most its the other way around, interest and experience has increased and that comes from playing teams that the country knows about and knowing the reward of a good season is a bowl game and a possible bowl game in national spotlight. Way too many positives playing FBS over FCS.
Becoming harder to find non-P5 opponents? Lol they're just not trying hard enough to allow us to play them, that's all. I don't see any instance where, especially now, a P5 came calling us that we would turn it down.
Dick Ash
Official Roster Geek, Staff Writer
There was some hint by the SBC Commissioner that Idaho and New Mexico State's future in the Sun Belt is all but certain. There are agreements that need to be renewed if they are to stay in. The two schools are affiliate members for football only. Hartwick, Howard and NJ Institute of Technology are affiliate members for men's soccer only. NJIT will move their men's soccer team to the Atlantic Sun where they are members for other sports in 2016-2017. Texas-Arlington and Arkansas-Little Rock are full members that don't play football.
Options:
the SBC could go back to 10 teams
they could look at UMass and/or Army as potential members that are out of the footprint but better than Idaho & NM State
they could look at southern teams like James Madison or Liberty or Eastern Kentucky (again).
Options:
the SBC could go back to 10 teams
they could look at UMass and/or Army as potential members that are out of the footprint but better than Idaho & NM State
they could look at southern teams like James Madison or Liberty or Eastern Kentucky (again).
Can't really put Miami in with a grouping of those teams. I don't like them, but their history is pretty strong.
I was all about the attendance numbers...but I think the COA is going to weed out the weaker ones eventually. I am surprised 50/50 of the MAC is split. I figured it would be less than that with the majority unable to afford it.
What's going to really shake things up are schools who think they can actually do it...make farcical scenarios, and ultimately end up using money from the school itself...costing departments and professors their positions. While the latter is unlikely since the academics would raise hell, it is a possibility for some who really think they can try it.
I just wonder how long some schools are going to continue on before they just ultimately fold and go down a lower level.
All it takes is just one to do it...and the dominoes will fall.
Not really, probably only conference made up of mostly former 1aa schools is the sunbelt, and no one knew they existed for while as a conference in 1a. North Texas, Troy, MTSU, and more recently LA Monroe, put them on the map.
Remove Miami, Central Mich., Akron, ODU, UNT, Troy, Georgia Southern, Temple, SMU, and Wyoming from that list.... and you may be on to something
Supply and demand. The number of available non-P5 opponents was effectively reduced from 190 to 65 for teams no longer schedule FCS teams. Combine that with trying to still have somewhat interesting match ups (OSU scheduling instate MAC teams instead of, say, San Diego State for example), G5 schools still scheduling FCS schools as well as each other, fewer opponents willing to do a one and done, and trying not to schedule low prestige teams with a good chance of beating you, and I think it's pretty clear that demand and difficulty for scheduling G5 opponents has gone up. Particularly for the two thirds of the P5 that are not considered the "elite."
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