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Doc’s Superior Recruiting:

Not one, not two, but three major failures on the part of the jar head, and we're only 13 posts in.

Keep posting marine. I feel you have a decent shot at breaking Fever's record of most screwups in a single thread.
 
Not one, not two, but three major failures on the part of the jar head, and we're only 13 posts in.

Keep posting marine. I feel you have a decent shot at breaking Fever's record of most screwups in a single thread.

Meh, I was going off the PFF article. The fact that Green made an all freshman team from CUSA voters takes any validity away from their team in its entirety
 
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Meh, I was going off the PFF article. The fact that Green made an all freshman team from CUSA voters takes any validity away from their team in its entirety

Were there any other freshmen QBs that played significant snaps? Don't know, but if he was the only one, and had a 6-2 record as a starter, his selection makes sense.
 
This thread is fun...

I don't think if you watch the games, especially when you compare our guys to our opponents, that not having talent is an issue. We have talent, better than any other team in CUSA in many people's opinion. The problem is, has always been, and always will be with Doc – Not knowing how to use that talent once its on the field.
 
I don’t disgagree at all with Rhino. Unless we recruit DB’s that have very stiff necks how else do you explain them never being able to turn around when the ball is in air. Coaching?

Exactly...

Doc is a fine recruiter, as are several members of his staff, they just aren't very good at developing that talent... Watch the MTSU and Southern Miss games. We were bigger, faster, stronger than those teams at most positions. We lost because they were better prepared and made better adjustments.
 
Or less mistakes on the field; I'll go with this one, we lost both games because of more mistakes on the field. And I'd say those were both coach and player mistakes, some plans and some execution of those plans.
 
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Doc was never an X’s and O’s Guy. He recruits them but developing that talent is a weakness. Litton is a prime example. He got worse in my opinion.
 
Doc was never an X’s and O’s Guy. He recruits them but developing that talent is a weakness. Litton is a prime example. He got worse in my opinion.

Chase most certainly did not get worse. His sophomore season ruined him in the eyes of most fans, rightfully so, but his last season here he was much better in terms of decision making and leadership (with a grain of salt). Honestly, I think the biggest issue with Chase was that his skill set didn't mesh well with what Legg wanted to do.
 
Chase most certainly did not get worse. His sophomore season ruined him in the eyes of most fans, rightfully so, but his last season here he was much better in terms of decision making and leadership (with a grain of salt). Honestly, I think the biggest issue with Chase was that his skill set didn't mesh well with what Legg wanted to do.

But isn’t that the larger issue here. Why recruit a QB that doesn’t fit your offense at all. And if you’re going to why not change your offensive philosophy to meet the QB skill set?
 
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But isn’t that the larger issue here. Why recruit a QB that doesn’t fit your offense at all. And if you’re going to why not change your offensive philosophy to meet the QB skill set?

To a point...yes. With that said, Litton's natural ability was too much to pass on. Like others have stated, had he stuck around for this season, I think our offense could've been special. Coach Cramsey's desire to drive the ball downfield would've meshed very well with Litton's ability.

There are still other issues that may not have allowed such to happen (during Litton's career or now).
 
It's worth noting that in this end of the pool, you take who you can get at QB no matter what your philosophy is.

We wound up with Litton because he was an idiot in high school, otherwise he'd have gone P5. We wound up with Cato because he was malnutritioned and literally mentally ill. If you listen to an Isaiah Green interview, you might get a hint as to why he fell into our laps as well, otherwise our best options are an FCS QB with a bum arm and Garrett Morrell.

There are days I wish 1996-2002 never happened. It ruined this fanbase for all time.
 
To a point...yes. With that said, Litton's natural ability was too much to pass on. Like others have stated, had he stuck around for this season, I think our offense could've been special. Coach Cramsey's desire to drive the ball downfield would've meshed very well with Litton's ability.

There are still other issues that may not have allowed such to happen (during Litton's career or now).

I don’t deny Litton had talent he had a ton of it. I’ve yet to figure out what our offensive identity was while he was here and what actual offense we actually ran though. And I’m not certain Cramsey will be allowed to fully implement his offense while Doc is here.
 
It's worth noting that in this end of the pool, you take who you can get at QB no matter what your philosophy is.

We wound up with Litton because he was an idiot in high school, otherwise he'd have gone P5. We wound up with Cato because he was malnutritioned and literally mentally ill. If you listen to an Isaiah Green interview, you might get a hint as to why he fell into our laps as well, otherwise our best options are an FCS QB with a bum arm and Garrett Morrell.

There are days I wish 1996-2002 never happened. It ruined this fanbase for all time.


Is doubt any P5 school would have put up with his attitude or shenanigans.
 
To a point...yes. With that said, Litton's natural ability was too much to pass on. Like others have stated, had he stuck around for this season, I think our offense could've been special. Coach Cramsey's desire to drive the ball downfield would've meshed very well with Litton's ability.

There are still other issues that may not have allowed such to happen (during Litton's career or now).

I agree. We spent three years saying "man, if chase could just run the read option right we'd be so good!"

Then why the hell didn't we go to something a little less dependent on the read option!?
 
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I agree. We spent three years saying "man, if chase could just run the read option right we'd be so good!"

Then why the hell didn't we go to something a little less dependent on the read option!?

Exactly, that’s also my point. We knew he couldn’t run that offense when he got here. Here we are on our second OC and we still have the to really find out what our offensive philosophy is. Does anyone know what we actually call our offense?
 
Meh, I was going off the PFF article. The fact that Green made an all freshman team from CUSA voters takes any validity away from their team in its entirety
Green finished ranked 8th in QBR and had a solid season for a Freshman. He was by far the best Freshman QB in the conference.
 
It's worth noting that in this end of the pool, you take who you can get at QB no matter what your philosophy is.

We wound up with Litton because he was an idiot in high school, otherwise he'd have gone P5. We wound up with Cato because he was malnutritioned and literally mentally ill. If you listen to an Isaiah Green interview, you might get a hint as to why he fell into our laps as well, otherwise our best options are an FCS QB with a bum arm and Garrett Morrell.

There are days I wish 1996-2002 never happened. It ruined this fanbase for all time.
I am glad we had those years but agree we were spoiled
 
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First, you argue this:


Green finished ranked 8th in QBR and had a solid season for a Freshman.

Then, you say this:

He was by far the best Freshman QB in the conference.


But you fail to mention that another C-USA freshman QB finished 51st in QBR in the country while Green finished 103rd in QBR.

If you're going to use Green's QBR ranking as an argument for him, then claim he was by far the best freshman QB in the conference, you can't ignore that another freshman QB's QBR was far better.
 
First, you argue this:




Then, you say this:




But you fail to mention that another C-USA freshman QB finished 51st in QBR in the country while Green finished 103rd in QBR.

If you're going to use Green's QBR ranking as an argument for him, then claim he was by far the best freshman QB in the conference, you can't ignore that another freshman QB's QBR was far better.
I wonder how Green was voted freshman QB of the year in CUSA when there was another freshman QB in CUSA that was so much better?
 
I wonder how Green was voted freshman QB of the year in CUSA when there was another freshman QB in CUSA that was so much better?

Two really bad issues with your attempt:

1) Reading comprehension: I never argued that another freshman QB in C-USA was better, let alone "so much better." What I did point out was that Bailey used only one statistic - QBR - to support his argument. His argument was that the QBR showed Green had a solid season for a freshman and claimed he was by far the best freshman QB in the conference, but he didn't realize that another freshman QB in the conference had a far better ranking in the one statistic he used to support his stance on Green.

2) You wondered how Green was voted freshman QB of the year when there was another freshman QB so much better (we just went over how that wasn't my argument). Well, what you fail to understand is that Green was a CO-freshman of the year. Want to know who the other CO-freshman of the year is? That same freshman QB who has a far better QBR.
 
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First, you argue this:




Then, you say this:




But you fail to mention that another C-USA freshman QB finished 51st in QBR in the country while Green finished 103rd in QBR.

If you're going to use Green's QBR ranking as an argument for him, then claim he was by far the best freshman QB in the conference, you can't ignore that another freshman QB's QBR was far better.
Robison had a better QB, but was a turnover machine that was not a better QB than Green. 5 of Green's 10 INTs where on passes that hit receivers in the hands. If Green had any luck he would have only had about 5 INTs and would have had a couple more TDs based on some easy TD passes that were dropped by receivers.
 
Robison had a better QB, but was a turnover machine that was not a better QB than Green. 5 of Green's 10 INTs where on passes that hit receivers in the hands. If Green had any luck he would have only had about 5 INTs and would have had a couple more TDs based on some easy TD passes that were dropped by receivers.


The apologies are strong in this one.
 
Robison had a better QB, but was a turnover machine that was not a better QB than Green.

Robison: passes attempted - 304 INTs - 12
Green: passes attempted - 305 INTs - 10

Robison: rushing attempts - 73 fumbles (lost) - 2 (2)
Green: rushing attempt - 40 fumbles (lost) - 3 (3)

They almost had an identical number of pass attempts. Robison had two more INTs. However, it appears that Robison pushed the ball downfield more based on him having a full yard advantage in yards per attempt and a higher average in yards per completion.

Robison had almost twice as many rushing attempts as Green, yet Green fumbled the ball more.

When you add up both of their passing attempts and rushing attempts and then divide that number by their turnovers, the results show:

Robison turned it over every 26.93 he attempted a pass or ran the ball. Green turned it over every 26.54 he attempted a pass or ran the ball.

In other words, Green turned it over slightly more frequently than Robison, yet you claim Robison was "a turnover machine."

I didn't watch enough of either of them to determine who was the better QB. And frankly, coaching, both good and bad, has a lot to do with that, and neither of us are able to know how much that factored in. But the arguments that you've presented to support your stance have not only been inconclusive, but worse, actually have shown Robison to have been better.

QBR? Nope.
Turnover machine? Nope.
Co-freshman of the year? Nope, since they shared that.

I am still waiting to see how Green was "by far the best freshman QB in the conference."
 
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