ADVERTISEMENT

GK's Teacher Union Boss is an Idiot.

I highly recommend Thomas Fleming's book "Disease in the Public Mind" that talks about the psychology of the reasons for the war. Some of it is certainly "plant/grow" but there was legit concern after John Brown that the abolition movement, which was getting increasingly violent, would lead to societal collapse in the South.

Between Nat Turner and the situation in Haiti Southerners were like "We'd like manumisson as well, but y'all have to help us figure out what to do with millions of uneducated people" because just releasing them was not an option, which is why Lincoln and most Yankees were in favor of back-to-Africa movements.
Are there any sources that the South wanted to free the slaves but the road block was what to do with them?

I think that eventually would’ve been the problem, but I don’t think we were to that point yet (or would’ve been in the following, say, decade.)
 
  • Like
Reactions: wvkeeper(HN)
Robert E. Lee says as much in his own personal letters, and Fleming in the book I reference quotes some others. There were even some Southerners who were in favor of freeing the slaves for economic reasons. This sounds gross, but the cost to house/feed/provide medical care, etc... per person was more than it cost Joe Industrialist up north to pay his Irish immigrants.
 
Are there any sources that the South wanted to free the slaves but the road block was what to do with them?

I think that eventually would’ve been the problem, but I don’t think we were to that point yet (or would’ve been in the following, say, decade.)
wasn't that how the colony of Liberia started in Africa?
 
wasn't that how the colony of Liberia started in Africa?
That was the idea or attempt, but only about 15,000 actually went. That’s a couple orders of magnitude below what emancipation brought.

Not to mention most of the slaves had never been to Africa in the first place, and had been in America for several generations. So you weren’t really sending them “back” anywhere, just away to a foreign continent they were not at all equipped to survive on. Which is something I don’t think most of the white people who had the idea in the first place were overly concerned about.
 
just away to a foreign continent they were not at all equipped to survive on. Which is something I don’t think most of the white people who had the idea in the first place were overly concerned about.

Not glossing over what you are saying but didn't some whites also go to a foreign continent(s) they were not at all equipped to survive on?

History is complex and at many times ugly. Day to day living was very hard and people were more concerned about surviving than the feelings or welfare of others.
 
Not glossing over what you are saying but didn't some whites also go to a foreign continent(s) they were not at all equipped to survive on?
Yes, and a lot of them died. Jamestown famously had about a 10% survival rate.
 
That was the idea or attempt, but only about 15,000 actually went. That’s a couple orders of magnitude below what emancipation brought.

Not to mention most of the slaves had never been to Africa in the first place, and had been in America for several generations. So you weren’t really sending them “back” anywhere, just away to a foreign continent they were not at all equipped to survive on. Which is something I don’t think most of the white people who had the idea in the first place were overly concerned about.
Why would they want to leave here? This is the land of opportunity. Even with out history, this is the best place to be for the last couple of hundred years.
 
  • Like
Reactions: KyMUfan
Are you asking how American slavery is more relevant to American history than that of other countries?
Isn't that the statement of yours that I quoted?

It's a bit short-sided of you to make such an assumption, being that all you know of the impact on other countries who allowed slavery is from textbooks. Or have you lived in those countries as well and know the past and current impact of slavery there as well?
 
Why would they want to leave here? This is the land of opportunity. Even with out history, this is the best place to be for the last couple of hundred years.
Isn't that the statement of yours that I quoted?

It's a bit short-sided of you to make such an assumption, being that all you know of the impact on other countries who allowed slavery is from textbooks. Or have you lived in those countries as well and know the past and current impact of slavery there as well?
Ok I see the misunderstanding.

I am saying that American slavery had a bigger impact on American history than, say, Brazilian slavery had on American history. Not that it had a bigger impact on American history than Brazilian slavery had on Brazilian history.

So yes it should be kept in context that at the start of American slavery most places we’re doing it, that shouldn’t be ignored, but it shouldn’t be a surprise that in an American history class there will be more of a focus on American slavery than the slavery that existed in other countries.
 
Is having to fight a civil war to get rid of slavery a positive in your view?
no, but thank goodnes the republicans were there to free the slaves....the racist dems were for slavery, for jim crow, and continue to this day to enslave many minorities in ghettos with failing public education and no way out.
 
  • Like
Reactions: ThunderCat98
no, but thank goodnes the republicans were there to free the slaves....the racist dems were for slavery, for jim crow, and continue to this day to enslave many minorities in ghettos with failing public education and no way out.
So we agree that the legacy of slavery still has an impact on peoples lives?
 
I believe he is actually saying democrats are still continuing the legacy of slavery...
Look I’ve had to listen to so many people say slavery and racism has no impact on the world today that we don’t even need to agree on who’s doing it for me to be happy.
 
So we agree that the legacy of slavery still has an impact on peoples lives?
well we still have a democrat party so yes.

what was it L Johnson said about having them vote for the next 100 years or whatever??

and plenty just voted for Biden who has numerous racist direct quotes recorded so yes...

what is your point? the mere fact that there even was slavery is the only reason the majority of african americans are even alive today so it has to have an impact. democrats just make it a negative impact
 
Eventually the notion of slavery in America needs to be a history lesson and nothing more. Eventually it needs to cease being a source of guilt for people who had nothing whatsoever to do with it, given how many generations ago it happened. It was (and is) terrible, but there isn’t a soul in this country who is being personally negatively affected because of slaves that were brought here 250 years ago. It’s asinine to think otherwise.
 
This goes back many year but I believe it was a Daniel Patrick Moynihan interview I was watching or listening to. If you are not familiar with him he issued what became known as
the Moynihan Report.

At the time he said that prior to either desegregation or the war on poverty blacks had higher literacy rates, higher two parent homes, etc. than whites.

This was pre-internet days so I've never researched to confirm but would be interested to see if anyone else has heard this.
 
At the time he said that prior to either desegregation or the war on poverty blacks had higher literacy rates, higher two parent homes, etc. than whites.

This was pre-internet days so I've never researched to confirm but would be interested to see if anyone else has heard this.
Wasn't this right before the govt decided to take over the role of "father" in the african american household?
 
This goes back many year but I believe it was a Daniel Patrick Moynihan interview I was watching or listening to. If you are not familiar with him he issued what became known as
the Moynihan Report.

At the time he said that prior to either desegregation or the war on poverty blacks had higher literacy rates, higher two parent homes, etc. than whites.

This was pre-internet days so I've never researched to confirm but would be interested to see if anyone else has heard this.
So I had only vaguely heard of that report, and I decided to take the time to read most of it. It’s not really dense at all and isn’t a bad read. Here’s where you can find a copy:


The argument he’s making is nuanced and appears to have been taken out of context many times, by both sides. If you had to boil it down to one idea, it is that unstable black families are the main reason for economic disparity between black and white people. Particularly the lack of a male breadwinner.

He goes on to lay the blame for the unstable black families on racism, a history of segregation, and lingering effects of slavery. This is often overlooked by people using this report to try and justify racist beliefs.

He also says welfare programs will not help solve the underlying problem. A lot of conservatives like to stop right there, but he says the only way to fix it is to provide full employment for black males. He also advocated giving more money to families.

The left tore it apart because it said a lot of things that sound racist out of context, and because it pushed for a traditional male breadwinner, woman taking care of the kids (though he only advocates that for when kids are young) family structure. Again, taken out of context, this would seem to blame black families for falling apart and not really provide any path for the black families that were already broken to advance. They missed the forest for the trees.

His writing on equality versus liberty is extremely interesting. Worth a read.
 
White liberals were more than happy to destroy the black family by emasculating the men from their male roles. It was a practice run for what we are now seeing today in the white family.
 
White liberals were more than happy to destroy the black family by emasculating the men from their male roles. It was a practice run for what we are now seeing today in the white family.

Seems to be the case. Now the strongest families in America are those that have insulated themselves from this (Asians) and those that haven't been fully exposed to it yet (Hispanics). There are exceptions of course and this is an oversimplification but with a broad brush it's not too far off.
 
So I had only vaguely heard of that report, and I decided to take the time to read most of it. It’s not really dense at all and isn’t a bad read. Here’s where you can find a copy:


The argument he’s making is nuanced and appears to have been taken out of context many times, by both sides. If you had to boil it down to one idea, it is that unstable black families are the main reason for economic disparity between black and white people. Particularly the lack of a male breadwinner.

He goes on to lay the blame for the unstable black families on racism, a history of segregation, and lingering effects of slavery. This is often overlooked by people using this report to try and justify racist beliefs.

He also says welfare programs will not help solve the underlying problem. A lot of conservatives like to stop right there, but he says the only way to fix it is to provide full employment for black males. He also advocated giving more money to families.

The left tore it apart because it said a lot of things that sound racist out of context, and because it pushed for a traditional male breadwinner, woman taking care of the kids (though he only advocates that for when kids are young) family structure. Again, taken out of context, this would seem to blame black families for falling apart and not really provide any path for the black families that were already broken to advance. They missed the forest for the trees.

His writing on equality versus liberty is extremely interesting. Worth a read.

To be fair I've never taken the time to read it as I didn't know how long the report is. However I did hear him speak about it 30 years or so after its publication and it was interesting to hear his analysis at the time.

While I appreciate and find your analysis interesting, I'm also interested in the pre and post statistics pertaining to both black and white families that I referenced.
 
ADVERTISEMENT