Anyone who is watching Baylor and Gonzaga can see the value of having grown men in the paint. In order to play at the highest level, teams need have a post presence. Maybe Goran can develop (and I mean really, REALLY improve) or perhaps we can grab someone from the portal or JC. If none of those things occur, we will face the same issue that plagued us this past year, decent teams will bully us underneath. The thought of going against that monster that North Texas has the next three years is unsettling.
Grown Men
- Thread starter bigoherd2
- Start date
I also see one team shooting 10/20 from behind the arc while the other is 3/12.
Baylor won last night because of their guards.
Their two big men scored a combined 9 points.
Vital, who is only 6'5", played the five a bunch because of foul trouble to Thamba and the UNLV transfer.
Their two big men scored a combined 9 points.
Vital, who is only 6'5", played the five a bunch because of foul trouble to Thamba and the UNLV transfer.
I love discussing basketball, but when someone watches that game last night and thinks Baylor won it with grown men in the interior, I realize it’s just a waste of time.
Baylor's defense at every position kept the Zags from getting into their offense and prevented open shots, especially in the first 15 minutes. Getting offensive rebounds was also a key to Baylor's dominance. Agree that their excellent three-point accuracy allowed them to match any run Gonzaga made. Great performance from Baylor, and it again shows how important aggressive defense is in developing a winning program. When a player got winded, Drew put in a sub who played at the same level of intensity. Very impressive.
Everything went right for Baylor last night. They were unconventionally defending Gonzaga’s screen game. The big man stuck with Timme and they even rolled the weak side defender into Timme’s area to deter a pass. Gonzaga’s guards weren’t used to having a free pass to the basket and were probably a little intimidated by Baylor’s size. They were hesitant and it threw everything off (Suggs picking up 2 quick fouls also threw them off).
Accompany that with Baylor not missing and you had a perfect storm. Bad matchup for Gonzaga, but also perfect execution by Baylor. Incredible performance all around.
Accompany that with Baylor not missing and you had a perfect storm. Bad matchup for Gonzaga, but also perfect execution by Baylor. Incredible performance all around.
In 20/20 hindsight you could have seen this outcome. In addition to being a tough matchup for GU, Baylor only played 20 minutes early Sat evening then coasted 20 minutes. GU of course had a 45 minute physically and emotionally draining late night game. A guy who is quite good at analysis told me Sunday that Baylor would win by 8-10. I don’t place wagers so there is that. 
Ironically, teams that win in OT in their previous game, are 8-19 in the next one. Some think that winning in OT carries over momentum into the next game, but the results don't support this thinking.In 20/20 hindsight you could have seen this outcome. In addition to being a tough matchup for GU, Baylor only played 20 minutes early Sat evening then coasted 20 minutes. GU of course had a 45 minute physically and emotionally draining late night game. A guy who is quite good at analysis told me Sunday that Baylor would win by 8-10. I don’t place wagers so there is that.
Grown men can also apply to their guards. They were very strong and physical as well. I can’t see how that couldn’t be of benefit.
Yeah, but those offensive rebounds! They were huge in this game! Baylor man handled Gonzaga’s bigs. Those guys (Thamba & the others) were just big, muscled & aggressive. I now think Sat nite took a lot out of Few’s crew. + the turnovers! Waaaay too many. ++ missing all of those free throws!! Very uncharacteristic. Baylor roughed the Bulldogs up but good, & that got them inside the Zags heads. Dominating performance!! The Perfect season is becoming like the Triple Crown drought .....
So interior size did have a considerable effect on the game and its flow like the OP inferred? It was a complete game and the interior defense and rebounding of BU had a considerable effect regardless of only scoring 9 points.
The difference in the final score was basically the 5 additional 3's BU hit. But the tone of the game was set by the defense, both outside and inside, the ability to hit the threes, and the nearly 2 to 1 rebounding advantage and 3 to 1 offensive rebounding advantage that made several of those made 3's possible. Strong inside play was a significant contributor.
You are correct in that it was a complete game.
In addition to the obvious attributes such as size, skill, athleticism and coaching, basketball is also a game of matchups and often luck.
Both Baylor and Gonzaga pretty much cruised through the tournament until the Zags met UCLA. With 2 OT wins and somehow escaping a Michigan team that snatched defeat from the jaws of victory, UCLA made it to the Final Four. Had Michigan or someone else made it instead what would the Final Four have been like for Gonzaga?
Both Baylor and Gonzaga pretty much cruised through the tournament until the Zags met UCLA. With 2 OT wins and somehow escaping a Michigan team that snatched defeat from the jaws of victory, UCLA made it to the Final Four. Had Michigan or someone else made it instead what would the Final Four have been like for Gonzaga?
Playing such an tough game in the second semifinal also seems to be a disadvantage. Wonder what those follow-up records are?
No, a waste of time is when you try to read but clearly can’t comprehend what is plainly stated. Please...please do us all a favor and point out where in my original post is it inferred that Baylor won because of their bigs. We’ll wait.... My post emphasized the importance of having a post presence. BOTH teams in the NCAA finals had that.
Seemed pretty plainly stated that you watched Baylor’s guards dominate that game and felt the need to create a post toward the end of the game about the value of having grown men in the paint.
Chris must have the same trouble with reading comprehension. Because my post was in reference to his. He got the same thing from what you “plainly stated”
Takes 5 players to play a complete game. Excellent guard play by Baylor with strong interior defense and rebounding as well. 11 more offensive rebounds plus more steals and fewer turnovers result in 18 more field goal attempts by Baylor. Both teams had 20 2 pt field goals. 5 extra 3's by Baylor plus 1 more FT = 16 pt final margin. I said this in an earlier post but evidently needed to illustrate it better.
Strong inside play resulted in offensive rebounds which resulted in more shots which resulted in more made shots which resulted in more points which resulted in a win which resulted in a National Championship.
I understand what won the game for Baylor. What I don't understand is why bigoherd2's fairly benign statement is the source of contention by some in this thread...☹
Strong inside play resulted in offensive rebounds which resulted in more shots which resulted in more made shots which resulted in more points which resulted in a win which resulted in a National Championship.
I understand what won the game for Baylor. What I don't understand is why bigoherd2's fairly benign statement is the source of contention by some in this thread...☹
I don't like assessing specific players because they are young and I don't want to label them. However I will go on record by saying I don't expect any significant improvement by Goran for the coming year. I was taken to task by someone when I posted Ajdin Penava's year over year improvement didn't surprise me.
To start let's quickly compare Goran and Ajdin. At 7 ft Goran seems to play smaller. At 6-9 Ajdin seemed to play larger. Ajdin could play the perimeter better and was a 3 pt threat and forced the defenses to respect him, or at least acknowledge that he was on the court. Ajdin had quicker feet and softer hands and much better ball handling skills.
For a baseline let's look at Goran's and Ajdin's sophomore seasons. Ajdin showed improvement throughout the season and had a nice CUSA tournament. Goran seemed flat throughout the season with no noticeable improvement.
Ajdin first, Goran second -
Minutes per game - 15.5 vs 9.5. Ajdin's minutes almost tripled from his freshman year while Goran's went DOWN. Ajdin also was playing behind some upperclassmen while Goran was not. Ajdin's minutes we also limited by foul trouble averaging 3.6 fouls per game while Goran was not averaging only 1.2 fouls per game.
3 pt - 9 of 40 vs 1 of 5. While similar %'s, Ajdin spread the court and made the defense respect him, Goran did not.
Next let's look a production per minutes played, a good indicator of a player's efficiency. In their sophomore years Ajdin played roughly 50% more minutes per game. Let's see how those minutes compare.
This frankly surprised me they were so similar. I think I was probably more impressed by Ajdin's skill set, playmaking abilities, ability to spread AND run the floor, his noticeable improvement and his aggressiveness (read fouls per minute).
Points - .40 vs .34
Rebounds - .25 vs .24
Blocks - .07 vs .04
Assists - .03 vs .01
Fouls - .23 vs .13
Pardon my math - doing it on my phone...
Penava's intangibles and noticeable improvement far exceed Goran's at similar points in their careers. 2 to 1 blocks and 3 to 1 assists are examples of that.
I hope I am wrong about Goran but he needs to work hard if he is to improve. I will admit Goran apparently has a stronger base than I expected. I want to be pleasantly surprised by him.
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