How Much Can People Change?

riflearm2

Platinum Buffalo
Dec 8, 2004
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Sure, people can change, but can people change after doing something truly despicable, truly morally bankrupt?

A company I have invested in/partner in wants to hire a female employee as a sales rep. She has a ton of connections in the industry and just left a similar industry where she was making between $150K-$200K per year. She worked for that company for four years, and by all accounts, was not only a top producer (top sales rep in their company across the country) but also a solid and loyal employee.

So what's the issue with hiring her? A background check showed she did something truly vile.

About eight years ago, her brother was diagnosed with a stage IV cancer. Serious, serious shit. It obviously put a toll on her family, and remarkably, her brother has survived to this point.

About six years ago, this girl, a single-mother of one daughter, made an awful decision. For reasons unknown (I haven't sat down to talk to her about it yet), she claimed to have had a serious form of cancer. It was completely bogus.

At the time, she was a fairly recent college grad who was working at a restaurant. Of course, when a young, attractive, single-mother gets cancer, a community rallied around her. The owner/co-workers at the restaurant took the bull by its horns and set up a day/night where all proceeds from their regular sales would go to help her with her bills, as she claimed she couldn't work while having treatment. Even the waiters gave every single penny of their earnings that night to her fund. In other words, she was allowing her friends and co-workers to work for free, give her all of their money, and do it under the guise of having cancer.

Somebody set up a GoFund Me account which raised tens of thousands of dollars. A local news station asked her to do a segment where she sat down and was interviewed, which she obliged to do. She forged documents (almost as good as Murox the Moron) from her brother's cancer paperwork to make them appear official. She lied to her family and kept them worried about it all. Her undoing came when she forgot to change the year on one of her brother's old medical documents, in turn, tipping off a careful reader.

She obviously and rightfully was hit hard by the court. She was convicted of two felonies, had to make full financial restitution (which she has accomplished), spent a year incarcerated (a significant portion which was spent in a work-release program), had to do a ton of community service hours, and lost custody of her only child (though she has split custody now).

Clearly, she was punished for it severely and will continue to be, as she is now a convicted felon, has no chance at many jobs, has that as a reputation which is easy to find, etc. Her background isn't a struggle - her parents are divorced, but they mutually own thousands upon thousands of land as farmers. All of her siblings are college grads and have stable jobs and families. On paper, her parents are loaded (due to the value of their land, animals, property, etc.), but she claims they are very simple people. They think she is too "wordly" and think she should simply strive for living in the house she owns on her parents property and finding the right guy. So I could see her being in need of financial help and her parents not willing to help.

I could understand her making a lie in order to miss a week of work ("I have to miss work this week, I have some serious medical appointments which require me to have tests"), then somebody at work catching wind of it and doing the fundraiser/GoFund Me/going to the media about it. Then, to not be exposed as a liar, she may have kept digging her hole deeper after it got out of control.

I don't know the why - but before sitting down with her, does it even matter? For a person to do that, is there any hope they are a totally different person six years later? I am cool with second chances, but that is a severe, severe incident. Has she paid enough of a punishment, been a great employee at another company for four years, and earned these opportunities?
 
I would not hire her. That is an illegal and despicable act. She might be a good rep but she could also burn you. What if customers found out about it? There are other good people to hire. People make mistakes but that is stealing on a major level. Dont do it.
 
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i stole a fishing lure when i was like 9 years old, got my ass beat to hell and back. see if she'll let you spank her.
 
I've always heard that people can change the way they act and what they do, but they can't change their character. While I haven't found that saying to be as absolute as it is couched, in my experience it has proven to be true in the overwhelming majority of cases.
 
Man, that's a tough one.

I've been burned enough to know a lot of people can't change...but seen it go the other way.

This girl is probably an excellent salesperson and knows how to read people; she used these skills before for nefarious reasons. The same skills that make her a desireable employee also make her a risky hire - she's probably smart enough to embezzle (or some variant of it) from you or undercut you without you knowing it.

Unless you're desperate, I'd steer clear.

One option (?if it's possible?) would be to call an old employer and ask them their thoughts on her past and how they dealt with this issue previously.
 
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...also, I'm not sure that her response as to the rationale here is going to impact the ultimate decision. I"m sure she had a crazy life circumstance (certainly worse than anything I've experienced or you've likely experienced) that led her to steal and I guarantee you she has a nice rehearsed story regarding it.

I'd be most interested in hearing what she's done the past few years from other employers rather than about this incident.
 
That is some very vile shit.

This girl is probably an excellent salesperson and knows how to read people; she used these skills before for nefarious reasons. The same skills that make her a desireable employee also make her a risky hire - she's probably smart enough to embezzle (or some variant of it) from you or undercut you without you knowing it.

This exactly. And while the same could be said of the entrepreneurial talent of drug dealers who move weight, they still had to "earn" their money while breaking the law. Her behavior was despicable, is indicative of sociopathy, and thus she is not trustworthy.

And do you really want her as a face of the company? Anyone can find info on everyone. Customers will find out and wonder why you let this nut onboard.

Most importantly....is her head game on point?
 
That is some very vile shit.



This exactly. And while the same could be said of the entrepreneurial talent of drug dealers who move weight, they still had to "earn" their money while breaking the law. Her behavior was despicable, is indicative of sociopathy, and thus she is not trustworthy.

And do you really want her as a face of the company? Anyone can find info on everyone. Customers will find out and wonder why you let this nut onboard.

Most importantly....is her head game on point
?

only if she is positive for herpes
 
You hire her after knowing her past and she gets in trouble.

Could you have some liability?
 
Honesty and integrity are the foundation of one’s character. Without them, there is no trust. This person has extremely severe character issues, and I don’t believe I would ever be able to trust her. I would pass. There has to be other people who are equally qualified yet have the type of character an employer would look for. Look for that person.
 
This is a pretty good take. I didn’t think about this.

I've hired a lot of people, so had this situation come up before. Really impressive candidate, about 30 years old, good experience, was currently employed by a competitor. Found in his BG check that he got busted when he was 18, a drug and weapon charge. Turned out he just had weed and a knife. I didn't not hire him for that, I didn't hire him because he was aware that we would do the check, but decided not to bring it up in advance and address it.

You can't be a "trusted advisor" to your clients if you aren't willing to address challenges head on and admit and address mistakes, because they happen.
 
I've hired a lot of people, so had this situation come up before. Really impressive candidate, about 30 years old, good experience, was currently employed by a competitor. Found in his BG check that he got busted when he was 18, a drug and weapon charge. Turned out he just had weed and a knife. I didn't not hire him for that, I didn't hire him because he was aware that we would do the check, but decided not to bring it up in advance and address it.

You can't be a "trusted advisor" to your clients if you aren't willing to address challenges head on and admit and address mistakes, because they happen.
if they told you would you have considered hiring them?
 
google has outed several of our potential hires. it's amazing some of the shit that can be found with a simple search.
 
google has outed several of our potential hires. it's amazing some of the shit that can be found with a simple search.
I feel bad for those who have the same or similar name to someone who has a checkered past.
 
Yes. I believe many people probably had weed and a knife in their car in their youth (or today if you are Raoul).

We had two bags of grass, seventy-five pellets of mescaline, five sheets of high powered blotter acid, a salt shaker half full of cocaine, and a whole galaxy of multi-colored uppers, downers, screamers, laughers..
 
We had two bags of grass, seventy-five pellets of mescaline, five sheets of high powered blotter acid, a salt shaker half full of cocaine, and a whole galaxy of multi-colored uppers, downers, screamers, laughers..

and also a quart of tequila, a quart of rum, a case of Budweiser, a pint of raw ether and two dozen amyls.
Not that we needed all that for the trip, but once you get locked into a serious drug collection, the tendency is to push it as far as you can.”
 

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