I called it. I fraking called it. New York is finally going to open

[i am herdman]

Many believe US COVID deaths would be much lower if a faster, more complete response was initiated. Columbia University estimates that would have saved 130K - 210K Americans.
"Inadequate COVID-19 Response Likely Resulted in 130,000 - 210,000 Avoidable Deaths - Coronavirus Coverage"

Inadequate COVID-19 Response Likely Resulted in 130,000 – 210,000 Avoidable Deaths

A new report finds American lives could have been saved if U.S. government response had followed international best practices.

blogs.ei.columbia.edu

Like what in response? Plus, the flu has been cured. Some of those things in the article are not even possible constitutionally. The POTUS can't issues a national mask mandate, only governors can in their respective states and some of that is questionable depending on the state(like you need sheriffs to enforce it). He can't only do it on federal property. He can't mandate a national lockdown.

Why is some of that stuff hard to understand, you totalitarians and chicken littles, don't get it. Why is this so hard to undersand?

Joe Biden, cheater supreme, can say national mask madnate all he wants, it holds no f'ing merit outside of federal property.

 

[mlblack16.]

What facts have you offered? I just see a bunch of declarative statements laced with insults and namecalling.

Statistics are declarative statements? Who knew? And if you can't survive name calling, then get your pussy ass off this board.

Don't know what you're babbling about. My points are clear - low positivity rates and shots being administered - probably drove NY's decision to reopen - not Trump leaving office.

You are flat out implying the small number of those vaccinated with the 2nd COVID vaccine are already making the difference in allowing the state to reopen. You made a mistake with such a naive statement, just own it.

NY's total population - the fact there are more people residing in NYC than in 38 of our 50 states - is not an assumption....it's a fact. And you have to take into consideration the total universe of people when discussing individual numbers.

Your entire argument is based on population size. Remember when you said this?

As we know.....19,000,000 people live in NYC

People are getting the shot....

Plenty have....progress is being made. I suppose you believe they should wait until everyone is vaccinated? NY disagrees.

If you can find where I said that, then I'll kiss @MichiganHerd 's black ass. No you fvcking dolt, I expect them to stick to their word and reopen once the majority of the population have been vaccinated and numbers sink to beneath pandemic levels. I mean that's where the goal posts were located this summer when your little vag was bleeding heavy on how Trump should stop encouraging states to stay open.

Damn....you're coming across as a tad unhinged. 7.3% positivity rate.

Now libs want to use positivity rates and focus on all other positive data regarding COVID. How cute.

 

[mlblack16.]

Like what in response? Plus, the flu has been cured.

Never mind him herdman. I've been rattling his cage today, and with my most recent post, he will be trying to pick himself up off the floor since I just mopped it with him.

 

[extragreen]

they "overestimated" by stating there would be millions of deaths due to COVID

IF, IF, IF....there was no mitgation

 

[raleighherdfan]

Many believe US COVID deaths would be much lower if a faster, more complete response was initiated. Columbia University estimates that would have saved 130K - 210K Americans.
"Inadequate COVID-19 Response Likely Resulted in 130,000 - 210,000 Avoidable Deaths - Coronavirus Coverage"

Inadequate COVID-19 Response Likely Resulted in 130,000 – 210,000 Avoidable Deaths

A new report finds American lives could have been saved if U.S. government response had followed international best practices.

blogs.ei.columbia.edu

Those "avoidable deaths" would have been "avoided" by simply classifying them appropriately for what their cause of death actually was.

 

[Chevy1]

Like what in response?

perhaps you should read the article to find out what they were measuring.

"The report by Columbia University Earth Institute’s National Center for Disaster Preparedness, entitled “130,000 – 210,000 Avoidable COVID-19 Deaths — and Counting — in the U.S.,” compares the U.S. death toll and policy response to six similarly high-income countries: South Korea, Japan, Germany, Australia, France, and Canada."

"The new report suggests that if the U.S. followed similar policies and protocols as the six nations, such as building sufficient testing capabilities, enacting earlier lockdowns, issuing a national mask-wearing mandate, and providing federal guidance on social distancing, it could have avoided at least 130,000 and potentially as many as 210,000 COVID-19 deaths."

"The report concludes there is a disproportionately high COVID-19 death rate in the U.S. compared to the other nations, even when examining median population age and obesity — two well-documented factors that affect COVID-19 mortality rates. This is likely explained by the slow and disorganized response by the Trump administration in both the early days of the pandemic and persistently through today. South Korea, for example, which reported its first COVID-19 case on the same day as the U.S., quickly enacted stringent measures to combat the spread of the virus that have resulted in a low mortality rate among its population."

Inadequate COVID-19 Response Likely Resulted in 130,000 – 210,000 Avoidable Deaths

A new report finds American lives could have been saved if U.S. government response had followed international best practices.

blogs.ei.columbia.edu

 

[Chevy1]

Statistics are declarative statements? Who knew? And if you can't survive name calling, then get your pussy ass off this board.



You are flat out implying the small number of those vaccinated with the 2nd COVID vaccine are already making the difference in allowing the state to reopen. You made a mistake with such a naive statement, just own it.



Your entire argument is based on population size. Remember when you said this?





If you can find where I said that, then I'll kiss @MichiganHerd 's black ass. No you fvcking dolt, I expect them to stick to their word and reopen once the majority of the population have been vaccinated and numbers sink to beneath pandemic levels. I mean that's where the goal posts were located this summer when your little vag was bleeding heavy on how Trump should stop encouraging states to stay open.




Now libs want to use positivity rates and focus on all other positive data regarding COVID. How cute.

Reciting the number of COVID deaths and US population really isn't adding anything of statistical value....

My only comment about vaccinations were they're in progress....and, yes, several have completed both shots. Really, don't know why you're getting all worked up about this.

While I laugh my ass off at Michigan's posts...really don't know why you're dragging him into this. However, he would add superior levity.

The rest of your post was just so much insane shit... I'll stick with "no comment".

 

[KyMUfan]

Many believe US COVID deaths would be much lower if a faster, more complete response was initiated. Columbia University estimates that would have saved 130K - 210K Americans.
"Inadequate COVID-19 Response Likely Resulted in 130,000 - 210,000 Avoidable Deaths - Coronavirus Coverage"

Inadequate COVID-19 Response Likely Resulted in 130,000 – 210,000 Avoidable Deaths

A new report finds American lives could have been saved if U.S. government response had followed international best practices.

blogs.ei.columbia.edu

What does this prove? That Monday morning quarterbacks have the benefit of 20/20 hindsight?

While Trump was trying to limit travel from China as early as January Pelosi, Newsome and Cuomo were downplaying it well into February to celebrate the Chinese New Year in both CA and NY. Cuomo even said influenza was more of a threat than the Coronavirus. Those are facts - look them up.

Why do you blame Trump for all of this? Do you not believe the ultimate culpability lies with the Chinese government and their initial and ongoing cover-up? There is evidence that China restricted travel from Wuhan to other provinces in January but continued to allow international travel from it for some time.

 

[KyMUfan]

IF, IF, IF....there was no mitgation

No. They overestimated everything from mortality rates to the need for ventilators with the exception of the speed in which a vaccine could be developed and the culpability of the Chinese government...

 

[Chevy1]

What does this prove? That Monday morning quarterbacks have the benefit of 20/20 hindsight?

While Trump was trying to limit travel from China as early as January Pelosi, Newsome and Cuomo were downplaying it well into February to celebrate the Chinese New Year in both CA and NY. Cuomo even said influenza was more of a threat than the Coronavirus. Those are facts - look them up.

Why do you blame Trump for all of this? Do you not believe the ultimate culpability lies with the Chinese government and their initial and ongoing cover-up? There is evidence that China restricted travel from Wuhan to other provinces in January but continued to allow international travel from it for some time.

WTF? It was a response to the question in your last post asking me how 381K deaths is a colossal failure? According to Columbia University, 130K to 210K deaths didn't need to happen....and the article lays out how they came to that conclusion and what was being measured. You and Herdman suffer the same Ignoring-the-data-even-when-it's-right-in-front-of-your-face syndrome.

I didn't write the Columbia University article - some highly educated researchers did. Need to ask them why they blame Trump for not aggressively addressing COVID in the early stages or why he misled the American public about the deadliness of the virus.

 

[KyMUfan]

WTF? It was a response to the question in your last post asking me how 381K deaths is a colossal failure? According to Columbia University, 130K to 210K deaths didn't need to happen....and the article lays out how they came to that conclusion and what was being measured. You and Herdman suffer the same Ignoring-the-data-even-when-it's-right-in-front-of-your-face syndrome.

I didn't write the Columbia University article - some highly educated researchers did. Need to ask them why they blame Trump for not aggressively addressing COVID in the early stages or why he misled the American public about the deadliness of the viru

You and Herdman suffer the same Ignoring-the-data-even-when-it's-right-in-front-of-your-face syndrome.

I've not heard of this but I have heard of Trump Derangement Syndrome, have you?

It really is a complex world and this pandemic is as well. There is usually a counterpoint to every point yet you seem to take the narrow and simplistic view on every single thing to blame Trump. It is insulting to one's intelligence to hear talking heads, celebrities and even you say that Donald Trump is responsible for 381k deaths. That is not a reasonable, intelligent or valid statement and only detracts from finding common ground.

At the time of the initial discovery of COVID-19 our government was essentially distracted and shut down by the democrats trying to score political points with the Russian impeachment charade instead of addressing important issues like a Coronavirus policy? As the potential severity of the virus became known the aforementioned Pelosi, Newsome and Cuomo were more concerned about impeaching Trump and celebrating the Chinese New Year than mitigating the spread of the virus. The media was more concerned with the name of the virus than its origin or effects.

Did you conveniently forget about those things? Did the researchers consider them too? I doubt it.

As a people many Americans have far too short a memory as they forget about the context of things. I have said it before and will likely say it again we are teaching our kids what to think, not how to think. Common sense and critical thinking are in too short a supply in our country and world right now.

 

[extragreen]

No. They overestimated everything from mortality rates to the need for ventilators with the exception of the speed in which a vaccine could be developed and the culpability of the Chinese government...

Millions IF no mitigation efforts.

 

[KyMUfan]

Millions IF no mitigation efforts.

Then I guess you just proved that Donald Trump's mitigation efforts worked since we haven't had "millions" of deaths.

 

[extragreen]

Then I guess you just proved that Donald Trump's mitigation efforts worked since we haven't had "millions" of deaths.

Millions if NO mitigation efforts.
I guess you just proved that social distancing, the lockdowns, masks, and washing of hands is not a mitigation effort.

 

[KyMUfan]

Last post on this:

1. I don't want anyone to catch Coronavirus and certainly want no one to die from it.
2. If you value human life there should be no reason to politicize the crisis because in doing so you are only taking energy and resources from mitigating and/or reducing its threat.
3. Especially troubling is the aggressive nature the virus attacks certain young individuals in otherwise excellent health.
4. Infection rates, symptoms, death rates, etc. have all been overstated from virtually day one. Governor Cuomo said as much until he realized how much political capital could be gained by the crisis.
5. There have been many contradicting and changing statements made by the media, politicians and the healthcare field. Like the little boy who cried wolf this has increased public distrust and skepticism and likely contributed to it spread.
6. The negative reaction by many of the aforementioned to President Trump's announcement of the Warp Speed Task Force has also likely undermined the public's acceptance of the vaccine.
And lastly,
7. Donald Trump didn't say ingesting bleach was an effective treatment even though Joe Biden has often repeated that he did. I have had health care professionals tell me that he said it. I keep asking them to find the video and show me. No one has been able to yet because it doesn't exist. This further detracts from honest efforts to mitigate and possibly eliminate the threat. The Philadelphia Enquirer is no friend to Donald Trump but did have the integrity to refute that falsehood.

No, Trump didn’t tell Americans infected with the coronavirus to drink bleach | PolitiFact

Biden said Trump said drinking bleach could help fight the coronavirus. Trump did not specifically recommend ingesting disinfectants, but he did express interest in exploring whether disinfectants could be applied to the site of a coronavirus infection inside the body.

www.inquirer.com

 

[Chevy1]

I've not heard of this but I have heard of Trump Derangement Syndrome, have you?

Never heard of it. Is it when you believe whatever stupidity and nonsense comes out of Trump's spray-tanned mouth? I hope there's a cure.

It really is a complex world and this pandemic is as well. There is usually a counterpoint to every point yet you seem to take the narrow and simplistic view on every single thing to blame Trump. It is insulting to one's intelligence to hear talking heads, celebrities and even you say that Donald Trump is responsible for 381k deaths. That is not a reasonable, intelligent or valid statement and only detracts from finding common ground.

Good grief - I posted findings from Columbia University. It was a pretty exhaustive and objective study....full of facts, data and conclusions. I didn't write it - please stop attributing it to me.

At the time of the initial discovery of COVID-19 our government was essentially distracted and shut down by the democrats trying to score political points with the Russian impeachment charade instead of addressing important issues like a Coronavirus policy? As the potential severity of the virus became known the aforementioned Pelosi, Newsome and Cuomo were more concerned about impeaching Trump and celebrating the Chinese New Year than mitigating the spread of the virus. The media was more concerned with the name of the virus than its origin or effects.

Trump is on tape telling a journalist he knew the virus was more deadly than he let on, but didn't want to alarm the country. So, you really can't have it both ways....spouting his lies that he didn't have time to deal with it when Trump is on tape saying, "Yeah, I don't want to tell the American public about this deadly disease." And him telling us it was "like the flu"....Below is a refresher...


Trump on tape - lots of "context".

 

[mlblack16.]

Trump is on tape telling a journalist he knew the virus was more deadly than he let on, but didn't want to alarm the country. So, you really can't have it both ways....spouting his lies that he didn't have time to deal with it when Trump is on tape saying, "Yeah, I don't want to tell the American public about this deadly disease." And him telling us it was "like the flu"....Below is a refresher...

So, what you're saying is, you condemn Trump for every wrong doing and mistake he could have possibly committed, but you completely turn a blind eye to the shit democrats did, all "because Trump..."

This is why no one outside of mentally deranged liberals will take you serious.

 

[Chevy1]

So, what you're saying is, you condemn Trump for every wrong doing and mistake he could have possibly committed, but you completely turn a blind eye to the shit democrats did, all "because Trump..."

This is why no one outside of mentally deranged liberals will take you serious.

seriously, is that all you got - some "blind-eye" whataboutism BS?

I promise you, if a Dem incites thousands to ransack the US Capitol or lies about a deadly virus - I'll be every bit as damning. Guaranteed.

 

[KyMUfan]

seriously, is that all you got - some "blind-eye" whataboutism BS?

I promise you, if a Dem incites thousands to ransack the US Capitol or lies about a deadly virus - I'll be every bit as damning. Guaranteed.

I just couldn't let this pass so I am posting one more time:

We saw dems inciting thousands to ransack cities, Targets, auto parts stores, federal courthouses, police stations, etc. this past summer. We recently saw dems inciting followers to storm the Supreme Court building. Were you every bit as damning then??? If not what is the difference?

Were there really "thousands" ransacking the US Capitol? I didn't count but I believe they have identified 170 and the number might go up into the hundreds.

This is the critical thinking aspect I have been discussing. A talking head says thousands for effect and you blindly repeat it without verification or further research.

Anyone that has both Republicans and Democrat on edge like Trump has got to be doing something right. There are swamp rats in both parties and have a complicit media running cover. Here is a first hand account which runs counter to what the anti-Trump media says.

January 6th: The Reality On The Mall -

I have read seemingly endless accounts online about the “mob” that stormed the Capitol, enflamed with rage by the words[…]

andmagazine.com

Have courage and open your eyes to a different perspective.

 

[extragreen]

Anyone that has both Republicans and Democrat on edge like Trump has got to be doing something right.

By that reckoning osama bin laden was doing something right. You're an idiot. For a "different perspective" and evidence of your "critical thinking aspect" you offer a link to an article written by another idiot. Like I said....you're an idiot.

 

[mlblack16.]

I promise you, if a Dem incites thousands to ransack the US Capitol or lies about a deadly virus - I'll be every bit as damning. Guaranteed.

I was about to post something similar to @KyMUfan but s/he beat me to it.

BTW, you really are getting destroyed ITT between myself and the excellent posts made by KyMUfan. You might want to take a break, sit the next few plays out.

 

[Chevy1]

I just couldn't let this pass so I am posting one more time:

Since my comment was directed at Mr. ML, you probably should have let it pass.

I recall some Dems offering empathy and moral support to protests, but not the violence. AND, I don't recall Dem leadership planning the protests, assembling the protesters and then speaking to the crowd to get them revved up for violence before the march. You know, telling them "you have to fight for it"....or "have to engage in combat"...or "it's time to start taking some names and kicking some ass".

Heard a former FBI leader state anyone who climbed on the steps of the Capitol last Wednesday technically committed a crime. Can't say if they're going to attempt to find all those folks but arrests keep climbing.

Also, can you say there weren't thousands engaged? After looking at the below, it's not difficult to conclude "thousands". And take 7 mins to look at that vid...more and more info is emerging making this more than a little disturbing.

 

[KyMUfan]

By that reckoning osama bin laden was doing something right. You're an idiot. For a "different perspective" and evidence of your "critical thinking aspect" you offer a link to an article written by another idiot. Like I said....you're an idiot.

Typical liberal BS. Never answer the question, especially when you know you can't without exposing your hypocrisy. Your then have to respond with hyperbole by making outlandish stretches and comparisons in a weak attempt to make your point. And when that fails you then resort to name calling.

I guess you had to use Osama bin laden for your example as those of your ilk secretly (or not so secretly) admire Lenin, Stalin, Mao, etc. Dems didn't want the National Guard in their riotous cities this past summer but now we have to have 20k in DC. They never like the military until they are in control. Remember Hillary loathes the military...

 

[mlblack16.]

Dems didn't want the National Guard in their riotous cities this past summer but now we have to have 20k in DC. They never like the military until they are in control. Remember Hillary loathes the military...

It was discovered that Greed is a Vietnam draft dodger. I think deep inside he hates himself for not standing up and defending his country, so to avoid dealing with that, he pretends to be a US hating, military hating communist prick.

 

[KyMUfan]

Since my comment was directed at Mr. ML, you probably should have let it passed.

I recall some Dems offering empathy and moral support to protests, but not the violence. AND, I don't recall Dem leadership planning the protests, assembling the protesters and then speaking to the crowd to get them revved up for violence before the march. You know, telling them "you have to fight for it"....or "have to engage in combat"...or "it's time to start taking some names and kicking some ass".

Heard a former FBI leader state anyone who climbed on the steps of the Capitol last Wednesday technically committed a crime. Can't say if they're going to attempt to find all those folks but arrests keep climbing.

Also, can you say there weren't thousands engaged? After looking at the below, it's not difficult to conclude "thousands". And take 7 mins to look at that vid...more and more info is emerging making this more than a little disturbing.

View embedded media

It was discovered that Greed is a Vietnam draft dodger. I think deep inside he hates himself for not standing up and defending his country, so to avoid dealing with that, he pretends to be a US hating, military hating communist prick.

And that war was started and escalated by the dems too. For not liking war (and who does???) they sure do get us in a lot of them don't they? By that token they should love Trump since I believe is the only president in my lifetime to keep us out of a war or conflict.

 

[Chevy1]

And that war was started and escalated by the dems too. For not liking war (and who does???) they sure do get us in a lot of them don't they? By that token they should love Trump since I believe is the only president in my lifetime to keep us out of a war or conflict.

 

[AmeriKenny]

And that war was started and escalated by the dems too. For not liking war (and who does???) they sure do get us in a lot of them don't they? By that token they should love Trump since I believe is the only president in my lifetime to keep us out of a war or conflict.

I'm excited by the last fact you stated, but he truly stoked a lot of internal conflicts within the US with the rise of far right and far left extremists. I think Trump's rhetoric fanned the flames.

 

[Chevy1]

I'm excited by the last fact you stated, but he truly stoked a lot of internal conflicts within the US with the rise of far right and far left extremists. I think Trump's rhetoric fanned the flames.

Agree...one thing is clear - "us vs them" was alive and well before Trump....but his presidency was "us vs. them" on steroids.

For the record, the Dems didn't plan a protest, assemble a mob and incite that mob to attack the US Capitol. I really can't think of any "whatboutism" that would compare to that insurrection. AND you don't have to be a "deranged liberal asshole" to embrace that position - just ask the 10 republican Congressmen who voted to impeach this president; it was the largest bi-partisan house impeachment vote in US history. Also, McConnell has voiced some support for Trump's impeachment - guess we'll see how many Republican Senators will hold Trump accountable for an act most have accepted that he bears responsibility.

 

[KyMUfan]

I'm excited by the last fact you stated, but he truly stoked a lot of internal conflicts within the US with the rise of far right and far left extremists. I think Trump's rhetoric fanned the flames.

Obama did his share too. The media has been fanning the flames for quite some time too. I understand Trump is polarizing, but so is Hilary, Obama, etc. Trump has received more black support than any Republican since 1960. I think that terrifies the left and is part of the reason for the unprecedented media attacks on him.

Most say race relations worsened under Obama, poll finds - CNN Politics

A majority of Americans say relations between blacks and whites in the US have worsened under President Barack Obama, according to a new CNN/ORC poll.

www.cnn.com

 

[KyMUfan]

Agree...one thing is clear - "us vs them" was alive and well before Trump....but his presidency was "us vs. them" on steroids.

Only because you are against him. Those for him could say the exact thing about many others on the left.

 

[herdfan429]

Agree...one thing is clear - "us vs them" was alive and well before Trump....but his presidency was "us vs. them" on steroids.

For the record, the Dems didn't plan a protest, assemble a mob and incite that mob to attack the US Capitol. I really can't think of any "whatboutism" that would compare to that insurrection. AND you don't have to be a "deranged liberal asshole" to embrace that position - just ask the 10 republican Congressmen who voted to impeach this president; it was the largest bi-partisan house impeachment vote in US history. Also, McConnell has voiced some support for Trump's impeachment - guess we'll see how many Republican Senators will hold Trump accountable for an act most have accepted that he bears responsibility.

Who knew calling everyone racist nazi at every turn and bitter clingers would cause division

 

[Chevy1]

Only because you are against him. Those for him could say the exact thing about many others on the left.

The "exact thing" really? I don't think so. Again, I haven't seen Dems plan and execute an insurrection. In fact, Hillary and Al Gore both conceded, and the presidential vote process without senate objection. Joe Biden processed Trump's win and Al Gore administrated W's win.

Don't attempt to legitimize Trump's violating his oath to the constitution by citing Dem deficiencies. It's irrational and stupid.

 

[Chevy1]

Who knew calling everyone racist nazi at every turn and bitter clingers would cause division

Like you, I was surprised to see the rioter wearing that "camp Auschwitz" t-shirt in the Capitol.

When Nazis, the KKK and white supremacists flock to a leader....it could indicate there could be an issue with their politics?

 

[i am herdman]

The "exact thing" really? I don't think so. Again, I haven't seen Dems plan and execute an insurrection. In fact, Hillary and Al Gore both conceded, and the presidential vote process without senate objection. Joe Biden processed Trump's win and Al Gore administrated W's win.

Don't attempt to legitimize Trump's violating his oath to the constitution by citing Dem deficiencies. It's irrational and stupid.

Trump had every right to challenge the election. Where does it say youu must concede.

Younguysbare letting nazis take over literally. The are getting ready to take control of the banks and media. They will label opposition political likenthr jews in nazi Germany. They control the education system and labeling people already.

This is not a joke or conspiracy theory. .
If you are a praying man sayba prayer. This is going to get bad before it gets better.

 

[mlblack16.]

that would compare to that insurrection.

I haven't seen Dems plan and execute an insurrection.

You need to provide proof that Trump was plotting this and it's not some conspiracy theory shit you read or heard someone say.

You just regurgitate talking points from the media without giving them any thought. It makes you look just as foolish as the crazy right wingers who broke into the Capitol.

 

[Chevy1]

Trump had every right to challenge the election. Where does it say youu must concede.

Younguysbare letting nazis take over literally. The are getting ready to take control of the banks and media. They will label opposition political likenthr jews in nazi Germany.

This is not a joke or conspiracy theory.

You're right...he had every right to challenge the vote in court. He lost...he lost 60 times.

Did he have the right to incite an insurrection? Now, we can mealy-mouth what he said, but there's no denying he planned the protest and assembled the mob...as well as the outcome.

 

[mlblack16.]

Like you, I was surprised to see the rioter wearing that "camp Auschwitz" t-shirt in the Capitol.

Whataboutism

You commit the same penalties that you go around virtue signaling to everyone on how you don't do it. God, you really are a weak minded liberal sheep.

 

[mlblack16.]

Did he have the right to incite an insurrection? Now, we can mealy-mouth what he said, but there's no denying he planned the protest and assembled the mob...as well as the outcome.

"Hi folks, I'm Chevy, and I think if I say something enough times it will magically come true."

 

[Chevy1]

You need to provide proof that Trump was plotting this and it's not some conspiracy theory shit you read or heard someone say.

You just regurgitate talking points from the media without giving them any thought. It makes you look just as foolish as the crazy right wingers who broke into the Capitol.

The proof is there....he called for the protest...he tweeted the need to show up, and he was on the stage telling these guys they need to fight. There's no denying....and to willfully ignore those facts isn't smart.

Please go online and look at a good cross-refences of news reports. You can't just rely on one source to provide a complete picture.

 

[mlblack16.]

There's no denying....and to willfully ignore those facts isn't smart.

He didn't tell people to go storm the Capitol. You guys get so far deep into demonizing the man that you start to believe the most absurd make believe statements that come out of Camp Left.