If you could overturn one loss which one would it be and why?

Discussion in 'Herd Nation' started by BleedsGreen33, Jul 31, 2020.

  1. BleedsGreen33

    BleedsGreen33 Platinum Buffalo
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    For me it would either be the 1997 loss vs WVU or the 2010 WVU loss. Just personal reasons. Both games were ours to win. Also think back to that 1997 game and just how many NFL players were out on that field for either team.

    Here are some of the other losses that would be nice to have back.

    1987 loss to ULM for the I-AA National Championship
    1991 loss to Youngstown St for the I-AA National Championship
    1993 loss to NCST (We were robbed)
    1993 loss to Youngstown St for the I-AA National Championship
    1994 loss to Boise St in the I-AA Semi-finals
    1995 loss to Montana for the I-AA National Championship
    1997 loss to Ole Miss in the Motor City Bowl
    1998 loss to Bowling Green that prevented an undefeated season
    2000 loss to Michigan St (only lost by 10. 24-34)
    2000 loss to UNC (only lost by 5. 15-20)
    2001 loss to Western Michigan for the MAC Championship
    2002 loss to Toledo (only conference loss that year)
    2003 loss to Tennessee
    2004 loss to Akron (wasn't this the Charlie Fry game)
    2004 loss to Ohio State
    2004 loss to Georgia
    2004 loss to Cincinnati in the Fort Worth Bowl (Pruett's final game)
    2005 loss to KState at home
    2005 loss to UCF (first loss to them)
    2006 loss to UCF (we lost 22-23 with McG and McConaughey on the sidelines)
    2007 loss to New Hampshire (this was just plain embarrassing)
    2012 loss to ECU in double OT
    2013 loss to VT in triple OT
    2013 loss to MTSU (lost 49-51 on that last drive)
    2013 loss to Rice in the CUSA Championship
    2014 loss to WKU that ended a perfect season
    2015 loss to MTSU in triple OT
    2017 loss to NCST
    2017 loss to FAU (I believe this was Chase's 3 INT game)
    2018 loss to NCST
    2018 loss to VT
    2019 loss to Charlotte (knocked us out of the title game)
    2019 loss to UCF


    Maybe you have another loss in mind that for some reason or another still sticks in your mind.
     
  2. W-S HerdFan

    W-S HerdFan Platinum Buffalo
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    ....On that list, I have to go with the 1993 loss @ NCState. Worst feeling leaving Carter Finley knowing we were robbed by the ACC refs! It was a gut punch. We were IAA, they were ranked, like #12 AP at the time. Would have been THE signature win in program history up to that point.
    The 2014 home loss to WKU, also in the stands. But in this one we shouldn’t have been so far behind after 2 Qtrs. Still felt really shitty watching those bastards celebrating after the final whistle...
     
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  3. marshallsig

    marshallsig Platinum Buffalo
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    2010 wvu
     
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  4. alphasig1053

    alphasig1053 Platinum Buffalo
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    Beating OSU at their place would have done the most for our program. That is one of a handful of games that I get sick over when I think about it.
     
  5. Treadmill MUsic

    Treadmill MUsic Silver Buffalo
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    1. 2004 at Ohio State
    2. 2005 Kansas State
    3. 2008 at East Carolina
    4. 2009 East Carolina
    5. 2010 WVU
    6. 2012 at East Carolina
    7. 2013 at Middle Tennessee
    8. 2014 WKU
    9. 2015 at Ohio
    10. 2016 Akron
    11. 2017 FIU, Southern Mississippi (home)
    12. 2018 Middle Tennessee
    13. 2019 Charlotte
     
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  6. herdinatl

    herdinatl Green Buffalo
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    Basketball: 2018 Loss to WVU in San Diego, when my kid got knocked out of the game.....(literally).
     
    6 herdinatl, Aug 3, 2020
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2020
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  7. BleedsGreen33

    BleedsGreen33 Platinum Buffalo
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    I still don't get that game. Was WVU just that much better than us or were we completely gassed after that emotional first round win. Your son going down definitely compounding the problem, but no one looked the same as the previous game.
     
  8. TwolfHerdfan

    TwolfHerdfan Platinum Buffalo
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    2010 WVU
    2004 OSU
     
  9. RhinoD

    RhinoD Gold Buffalo
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    In order for me...

    2004 - Ohio State
    2010 - WVU
    2014 - WKU
    1995 - Montana
    1998 - Bowling Green
     
  10. RhinoD

    RhinoD Gold Buffalo
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    We looked like we were just happy to be there... Emotional CUSA tourney win, emotional first-round win over Wichita State... Then a letdown.
     
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  11. Pioneer_PA

    Pioneer_PA Platinum Buffalo
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    I’ll still never understand why a player would stop, turn around, and sprint full speed away from the direction the ball was going...
     
  12. herdinatl

    herdinatl Green Buffalo
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    I think it was a combination of all of that. Do i think we still would have lost if Jannson was in the game? Yes. I do. They were a better ball club and had a great game plan for Jon. Were they THAT much better than us? no. Still would have like to see us win that game, though. Jannson remembers NOTHING about that day after the team breakfast. He was amazed when we sat down and watched the replay of the game and his incident.
     
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  13. herdinatl

    herdinatl Green Buffalo
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    That's an easy one. You do that when your coach tells ya to.
     
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  14. muthed

    muthed Bronze Buffalo
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    Looking forward, hopefully, to more of that 2018 success.
     
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  15. HerdFan73

    HerdFan73 Gold Buffalo
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    Herdinatl obviously has the best take, but I think I’d add to that.

    If you all recall, we really didn’t get hot that season until the emergence of Jannson and Adjin. Once we had some inside presence it turned us from a team that lost to WKU by 30, to beating them for the tourney win. We were so thin anyway, so losing JW that early completely changed the dynamic of the game.

    As far as the gameplan for Jon, their game plan was simply let Javon Carter guard him. Carter is making a lot of dollars in the NBa right now based solely on his ability to defend. No shame in JE struggling there.

    But I think the biggest issue is this. WVU has always been a tough draw in the tournament on short turnaround. I’d rather played them round 1 than round 2. Early-on, we had their bread and butter press figured out and were picking it apart. They switched the press up, and we had no answer because 1 day just isn’t enough time to prepare for all the crap they could probably throw at you.

    So mix all the above together, just a perfect storm.
     
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  16. Pioneer_PA

    Pioneer_PA Platinum Buffalo
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    Bingo. Plus they shot the ball really well. We weren’t beating them that night regardless. When they played that well offensively, they were a top 5 caliber team.

    Then they got the worst case scenario for themselves the next round... a fully prepared Villanova.

    Such is the NCAA Tournament!
     
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  17. 5150

    5150 Platinum Buffalo
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    97 game was different, WVU gets out to a big lead and puts in the second team and lets the momentum get away. Don puts the starters back in, gets the teams attention again, and then puts their foot on the gas and it was over. Now, 2010, that was the game. MU should have won that hands down. Was that a true freshman that fumbled?
     
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  18. BleedsGreen33

    BleedsGreen33 Platinum Buffalo
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    Didn't Pennington throws two INTs in the 2nd half in 1997?

    And yea Tron was a true freshman. Martin Ward was getting cramps rubbed out and Andre Booker was the #3 and he was way too small to take a RZ carry up the middle. All Tron had to do was fall down, but by his own admission was trying to be the hero and as he fought for that extra yard (might have been for a 1st down if he got it) he was stood up and then had the ball knocked out. Makes me sick just typing that out.
     
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  19. W-S HerdFan

    W-S HerdFan Platinum Buffalo
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    CP did throw 2 picks, but in both cases (to use a different sports phrase), those were thrown low & outside. The defenders just made great plays. At least, that’s how I remember it from the stands.......
     
  20. Treadmill MUsic

    Treadmill MUsic Silver Buffalo
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    Most recent was (2018) home conference loss to Middle. I know Alex Thompson started in place of IG. We win that game, we would have won or played for the CUSA Title game.
     
  21. HerdFan73

    HerdFan73 Gold Buffalo
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    Funny, I would have thought being down in the 4th quarter would have gotten their starters’ attention. But that’s just me....
     
  22. oldeherd

    oldeherd Silver Buffalo
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    Yep, IIRC if we would have picked up the 1st down, then the Herd could have taken knees on the subsequent new set of downs. EERS would have had to exhausted any of their remaining TOs and then we could have ran the clock on remaining downs or, if need be, had a chip shot 4th down attempt at a FG which would have given us a 10 point lead with little time remaining!!
     
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  23. HerdFan73

    HerdFan73 Gold Buffalo
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    Ah it’s actually way worse. We recovered a Geno Smith fumble Inside the WVU 20. Up 15 with 9 minutes left. Doc decided this was the time to give Tron Martinez his first career rushes. (Martin Ward averaged 9 YPC this game BTW). On his third carry, which was FIRST and goal from the 6, he fumbles giving WVU the ball with 8 mins left.

    A FG there would have put us up by 18 with about 6 mins left.
     
  24. BleedsGreen33

    BleedsGreen33 Platinum Buffalo
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    Doc had no choice. Ward wasn't available because of cramps and Booker was too small. That game exposed just how horrible our depth was. We had players on defense like Ahmed Shakoor playing all but 2 snaps then having to chase down a fresh Noel Divine deep in the 4th.

    I think we pissed away points at the end of the 1st half too.

    We had the game, but we didn't unfortunately.

    However if Tron just falls down instead of trying to fight for extra yards we win. That's really hard to say though because we're always praising RBs who keep their legs churning and pick up those extra yards finishing the run.

    I hate that game and unfortunately can't forget it. Most other games have washed together, but that one just sucks. Right there with 2014 WKU.
     
  25. oldeherd

    oldeherd Silver Buffalo
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    Yes, but both Ward and Booker were holdovers from Snyd's last team. In fact, can't recall which one but one of them was the MVP of our bowl win the previous season after Snyder was canned and Rick Minter coached the bowl win squad. Again, I think Doc wanted to put his stamp on the program right away. As a result, I think at least one of these running backs, Booker or Ward, if not both, fell out of favor with Doc and staff during the season and had their playing time severely curtailed. Can't help but think that this, as much if not more so, was a factor for freshman Tron Martinez's presence in the lineup at such a key moment than the alleged case of "cramps"!!
     
  26. HerdFan73

    HerdFan73 Gold Buffalo
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    There’s always a choice, Doc just never seems to have the right answer. I don’t buy that Booker was too small. Going through the game log he had 2 carries inside the 15 early in the game, so we didn’t think he was too small then.

    Reading back over this stuff, you know what my biggest takeaway was ? (Aside from wanting to puke.)

    "It's unacceptable to lose a game at Marshall," Holliday said. "I can't tolerate it. We've got to come back and find a way to win."

    He doesn’t talk like that anymore. Hasn’t in a long time. Now, we blow a division championship to CHARLOTTE and it’s “well they made one more play than we did.”
     
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  27. Pioneer_PA

    Pioneer_PA Platinum Buffalo
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    Nehlan most certainly did not pull the starters in that game or anything remotely like that.

    We had the lead and the ball in the fourth quarter. We should have won that game. We were exhausted in the fourth.

    Any “let down” was because it came so easy for them at the beginning of the game with the blocked punt, etc.

    Don’t buy anything from a fan base that said Randy Moss couldn’t start there.
     
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  28. 5150

    5150 Platinum Buffalo
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    During this COVID crap I have needed things to do so I actually watched that game recently. In the second qt with WVU up 28-3 Don put in his second team tailback Curtis Keaton and a few othrs. It was not all second string guys but some here and there. Yes indeed WVU depths and size was a factor. That was old school football. Its how Penn state won games for years. Play lots of guys and be fresh in the fouth qt.
     
  29. 5150

    5150 Platinum Buffalo
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    Gary Stills was hitting Pennington all day long.
     
  30. 5150

    5150 Platinum Buffalo
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    I think it did
     
  31. Pioneer_PA

    Pioneer_PA Platinum Buffalo
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    He ran Keaton one series to give Zereoue a break. Look, we were absolutely hanging by a thread after a quarter and a half down 28-3, but we went straight down the field and scored to make it 28-10. They did use D-1 depth (remember, we didn’t have anywhere close to 85 scholarship players ready to play. We were one year from having 63. Our depth was an issue in the heat), and that is why they won the game. They had a second burst in the fourth quarter that we simply did not have.

    I guess what I’m saying is, their sub pattern would have been roughly the same if the game was 7-7 at half as it was at 28-10. That was using their biggest advantage over us that day: depth.

    If we had been able to mount another drive to score again and go up 38-28 with 7 minutes left, they would have kept running the ball and made it 38-35 with about 4:30 left. I don’t know if we would have been able to hang on. But I am confident that Bulger was not capable of bringing them back at that point in his career. Our pass rush (strength of that particular D) got to them in the second half.

    We needed one more body at each level on D to have stayed fresh enough to maybe pull it out. But we stood toe to toe. I was proud of that. But I also know we were capable of winning that game.
     
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  32. 19MU88

    19MU88 Platinum Buffalo
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    I love hearing the urban legend of the subs coming in allowing the comeback. I don't doubt they lost momentum with the big lead and took foot off the gas against a team in it's first game in D1 football thinking it would be easier than it was. They had the same guys playing that always played. Heck, I wouldn't be suprised if Marshall had more guys on roster that went to the league than wvu in 1997, it's at least close. You phrase it like it was a dominating effort, like a team that was on another level got a lead, put in bench warmers, then turned up the heat and put the ball game away.

    The truth is Marshall had the lead in the fourth quarter, marshall out gained and out first downed wvu (far from a dominating performance by wvu) and wvu needed a fourth quarter comeback despite benefiting from 4 marshall turnovers and a blocked punt. Oh, and don't get me started on the questionable calls that went wvu's way. I remember the Big East announcer saying "the wvu defensive backs are getting away with murder" or something to that effect. Marshall should have won that game.

    Of the series with wvu, I'd say hands down MU should have won in 97 and at home in 2010. Both games were just blown. There was one other game during the Snyder years we probably should have won, when the starting QB was knocked out and Geno came in as a freshmen, but I would not call that one a blown game like 97 and 2010
     
  33. 5150

    5150 Platinum Buffalo
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    I agree, depth was the difference.
     
  34. 5150

    5150 Platinum Buffalo
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    both of those teams put about the same amount of players in the league from that game but as was stated in the other post depth turned out to be the difference. MU did not have a full roster of depth in part because it was the first of having 85 scholarships.
     
  35. 19MU88

    19MU88 Platinum Buffalo
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    I do agree depth made a difference late in the game. Bottom line you were wrong in your description.
     
  36. HerdFan73

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    I was worried for a minute I would be the only one to challenge this revisionist history.

    It’ went from “we pulled our starters till the Herd got a wee bit close then ole Don, who was just trying to be nice, but had to put his foot on the gas again.”

    to

    “Well we played our backup tailback some.”

    Well how would he have done that? I thought he got a big long break.

    It was an 18 point game at halftime. And I think we scored super quick in the third as well. Nobody is pulling their starters in that situation. Especially not against Randy Moss(coming from I-AA or not everybody knew how good he was.) Not even Nehlen was that big of a bafoon. But if 5150s recollection is correct, he’s claiming his own coach was the dumbest in America. If anything, If I’m a fan I’d be wanting to laud Nehlen for running a nice rotation that exploited our weakness in 4Q.

    I’m getting worked up just writing about it. And part of me feels bad about it because the guy isn’t being a jerk. But it just speaks to the freaking attitude of the fans of that school that I can’t stand.

    It’s like look dude, we get it. You’re in the mighty Big 12, we’ve never beat you. What else do you want? Yet when we’re talking about the 2-3 times in the modern era that we’ve been able to get on the field and even be competitive, they still feel compelled to come out of nowhere And say “Oh actually, that one time 23 years ago , that one was actually because we let you.” And has genuinely convinced him/herself over that 23 years that’s how it played out.

    Ugh.
     
  37. W-S HerdFan

    W-S HerdFan Platinum Buffalo
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    One thing both sides can agree on, 100% - It was a MF’in’ scorcher of a day. One of the worst sunburns (UGA is right there w/it) I have ever got from watching a football game....oh we had them concerned - when the Mounty fans go quiet, there’s a reason!
    I think in 2007, it was still less than a score difference starting the 4th quarter. I’m sitting in the 3rd ave bowl section. An obnoxious wvu fan stands up, turns around to us & announces: Now you’re going to see a real football team!
    I waited half a beat and said: “you better hurry”. Got some laughter, and he sat back down....
     
  38. 5150

    5150 Platinum Buffalo
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    wvu played more guys so depth played a role. When you play backups that gives starters time to stay fresh
     
  39. 5150

    5150 Platinum Buffalo
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    Im at 1989 Marshall. The con versation is about losing to WVU, I said in 2010 MU should have won but thought WVU had the better team. They played second teamers in the second qt. It gave their starters time to rest which presented problems in the 4th qt because they were fresh
     
  40. 19MU88

    19MU88 Platinum Buffalo
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    right, so normal substitution that a team does in any game. you implied it was clearing the bench and only needed to put those starters back in
     
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