Is it time to rethink the all volunteer military force?

[i am herdman]

I heard a speech the other day that said it might be time to rething the all volunteer force. No, this doesn't necessarily mean a wide draft, but let's look at it.

Counting current servicce members and veterans, that makes up about 1.5 percent of the current US population. People who have served in some capacity. Not just wars, but have served in the armed services in some capacity. Throw in their immediate family members(mom, dad, spouse, kids, etc.) and that is another 3 to 3.5 percent. So total between current service members, veterans, and close family members about 5% of the US population.

This has been the case since 1973. That is 50 years of an all volunteer force. Meaning, you signed up for it for whatever reason.

5% of our population being connected to military service is some way. What does this mean? That roughly 95% of our population has no connection to war, miitary service, military life, training, sacrifces, or veteran's causes and situations.

In other words, most of that 95% has no damn clue what is going on or has not sacrficed in some way or had the risk, worry, or even rewards or situations involved in military service. For rougly half that time, give or take, we have been at war or conflict. 95% of the American people get tunnel vision and not blaming them, but they don't know what is going on. They are consumed in daily life of paying the bills, goingto school, raising a family with no real clue what those other 5% have gone through.

Now, what has this lead to? Leaders in government with no clue about what is going on. Taxpaers with no clue and citizens with no clue. No skin in that particular game. Throw in the vast majority of youth with no direction to serve or no motivation to serve are we neglecting the military service and veterans causes? Are we relying on that 1% too much? WOuld it change the way we conduct or go to wars? Would it help get rid of some of the blotation and polticial Generals and politicans who seem to serve the military industrial complex more than the good of the nation?

Is it time to revise this? Throwing that burden on 1 percent to 5% of the American population for 50 years? Half of which was at war? Does it make us lose part of our national identity?

 

[extragreen]

No wide draft. No narrow draft. Until politicians children are drafted first and sent to the front lines of any conflict. Get lost, oath breaker.

 

[MichiganHerd]

No wide draft. No narrow draft. Until politicians children are drafted first and sent to the front lines of any conflict. Get lost, oath breaker.

^^^^ known draft dodger weighs in on the draft.

only on Pullman Square . . .

 

[Raoul Duke MU]

lol. No. You want to depend on some dopehead next to you when the bullets are flying?

 

[i am herdman]

No wide draft. No narrow draft. Until politicians children are drafted first and sent to the front lines of any conflict. Get lost, oath breaker.

wow, good legitimate discussion. can't you even offer a serious conversation. I throw an idea and you are just a miserable dick about everything. So, I bring up that 1 percent of individuals and about 5% of families are doing the brunt of your answer and your answer is this? You know i addressed what you wrote in my post. DId you not see that? WHere I said we have polticians out of touch? Did you not see that? 95% of Americans don't even have a clue about this stuff. did I even say a draft or widespread draft?

 

[extragreen]

^^^^ known draft dodger weighs in on the draft.

only on Pullman Square . . .

You're a lying idiot.

 

[i am herdman]

lol. No. You want to depend on some dopehead next to you when the bullets are flying?

Did I say dopehead? You know they do drug tests, right?

 

[extragreen]

wow, good legitimate discussion. can't you even offer a serious conversation. I throw an idea and you are just a miserable dick about everything. So, I bring up that 1 percent of individuals and about 5% of families are doing the brunt of your answer and your answer is this? You know i addressed what you wrote in my post. DId you not see that? WHere I said we have polticians out of touch? Did you not see that? 95% of Americans don't even have a clue about this stuff.

No wide draft. No narrow draft. Until politicians children are drafted first and sent to the front lines of any conflict. Get lost, oath breaker.

 

[i am herdman]

No wide draft. No narrow draft. Until politicians children are drafted first and sent to the front lines of any conflict. Get lost, oath breaker.

hahahaha, well take it up with your congressman. A large segment of our population is clueless as much as politicians. You are in that group.

 

[GeauxHerd]

^^^^ known draft dodger weighs in on the draft.

only on Pullman Square . . .

Extra with his typical soft cock responses.

Raoul has a point. Do we want dope heads on the front lines? Maybe they can peel the potatoes. Honestly they don’t really do that too much anymore. Military chow halls are supported by the Sodexo Marriott’s etc just like Marshall dorm cafeterias

 

[Raoul Duke MU]

Did I say dopehead? You know they do drug tests, right?

So you want a system where anyone not wanting to take part in mandatory military service can avoid it by smoking a joint?

If you want mandatory national service that includes the military as an option, I'm all ears.

 

[extragreen]

A large segment of our population is clueless as much as politicians.

Absolutely, and they vote for trump.

You are in that group.

Not a chance.

No wide draft. No narrow draft. Until politicians children are drafted first and sent to the front lines of any conflict. Get lost, oath breaker.

 

[Raoul Duke MU]

Maybe they can peel the potatoes. Honestly they don’t really do that too much anymore. Military chow halls are supported by the Sodexo Marriott’s etc just like Marshall dorm cafeterias

And this was a horrible decision. It's nothing but a transfer of tax money to corporations. Never mind the guys who learned a viable career in the kitchen, that's gone now and restaurants say they can't find workers...I'm not talking McD's, I am talking the nice places can't find help too.

 

[extragreen]

Extra with his typical soft cock responses.

Con^^^still obsessed with other people's genitals.

 

[i am herdman]

So you want a system where anyone not wanting to take part in mandatory military service can avoid it by smoking a joint?

If you want mandatory national service that includes the military as an option, I'm all ears.

i am thinking of a way to get people engaged and skin in the game some way.

Look, we(the country) can't even agree anymore over what a man and woman is. We can't agree on a border. We can't agree on elections.

We have to do something or we won't have a country left. Yes, always going to be differences but, certain things should be mostly unifying.

One poll take awhile back interviewed people from both polticial parties. And, it was something to the jist of if the USA was invaded would you stay and fight. Broke down something like 75% yes or Republicans. 45% of Democrats. Both numbers are too low.

 

[GeauxHerd]

And this was a horrible decision. It's nothing but a transfer of tax money to corporations. Never mind the guys who learned a viable career in the kitchen, that's gone now and restaurants say they can't find workers...I'm not talking McD's, I am talking the nice places can't find help too.

Definitely agree on this point.

I wasn’t in military (torn ACL kept me out with metal screws in knee) but let’s just say I am frequently in and around military bases for work and it’s very surprising how much civilian contractors are doing things military personnel used to do.

 

[i am herdman]

Definitely agree on this point.

I wasn’t in military (torn ACL kept me out with metal screws in knee) but let’s just say I am frequently in and around military bases for work and it’s very surprising how much civilian contractors are doing things military personnel used to do.

some of it is necessary. Example, training. It allows the experienced guys who get out to stay and train with their expertise. It allows for some expertise that the military may not have. IT, comms, etc.

Some of it is bull shit. Some of it is also necessary, like IT, public works, like or not, for things the govt put lawyers in every unit(big mistake IMO) and they need private people to do certain things. Why? We can't do them anymore because of lawyers and polticians. They want it done, but will hang you out to dry. The lawyers are basically carrying out the will of polticians. If that sounds familiar it is similiar to what the soviets did to ensure the poltiical will was being taken care of. Hey kill these, guys. OMG you are going up on charges becaues you pissed on a dead guy who was a terrorist or you shot him too many times. In some cases it is easier to hire mercenaries, throw them up on title 50 under the CIA and do what you have to do.

we could have probably hired a blackwater type group to go into Ukraine before the war and they would have literally ****ed the Russians up so bad in bad way they would have never invaded or the invasion would have been short. Instead we throw billions at the problem and here we are . Our Pentagon think tanks move to slow and methhodical sometimes. Our big military is good , really good, at destorying big enemeis and big miltaries. The best. Our big military< Pentagon, is not great at counter insurgency and things like that. Leave that to special operations and the CIA with mercanaries. We probably should have stuck to that in Afghanistan and shold have doen that in Ukraine prior to the invasion.

 

[extragreen]

Leave that to special operations and the CIA with mercanaries. We probably should have stuck to that in Afghanistan and shold have doen that in Ukraine prior to the invasion.

Putting US boots in Ukraine is absurd

Idiot^^^does nothing but spout malarkey.

 

[GeauxHerd]

some of it is necessary. Example, training. It allows the experienced guys who get out to stay and train with their expertise. It allows for some expertise that the military may not have. IT, comms, etc.

Some of it is bull shit. Some of it is also necessary, like IT, public works, like or not, for things the govt put lawyers in every unit(big mistake IMO) and they need private people to do certain things. Why? We can't do them anymore because of lawyers and polticians. They want it done, but will hang you out to dry. The lawyers are basically carrying out the will of polticians. If that sounds familiar it is similiar to what the soviets did to ensure the poltiical will was being taken care of. Hey kill these, guys. OMG you are going up on charges becaues you pissed on a dead guy who was a terrorist or you shot him too many times. In some cases it is easier to hire mercenaries, throw them up on title 50 under the CIA and do what you have to do.

we could have probably hired a blackwater type group to go into Ukraine before the war and they would have literally ****ed the Russians up so bad in bad way they would have never invaded or the invasion would have been short. Instead we throw billions at the problem and here we are . Our Pentagon think tanks move to slow and methhodical sometimes. Our big military is good , really good, at destorying big enemeis and big miltaries. The best. Our big military< Pentagon, is not great at counter insurgency and things like that. Leave that to special operations and the CIA with mercanaries. We probably should have stuck to that in Afghanistan and shold have doen that in Ukraine prior to the invasion.

Comrade commissar in each unit. Agree on that point too.

I think the embedding of reporters also ended up being a mistake.

Agree on the black water ops as well. There’s lots of things that need done under the radar where politics has to stay out. The CIA is the best place to place that work. They also farm out the torture techniques to countries like Romania so we can keep our hands clean of it.

 

[i am herdman]

Comrade commissar in each unit. Agree on that point too.

I think the embedding of reporters also ended up being a mistake.

Agree on the black water ops as well. There’s lots of things that need done under the radar where politics has to stay out. The CIA is the best place to place that work. They also farm out the torture techniques to countries like Romania so we can keep our hands clean of it.

Erik Prince who owned Blackwater is an introducing guy, along with his family business. He actually preseneted a ot of plans for Afghanistan, Iraq, and even Ukraine. He said he had a plan that would have stopped the Ukraine invasion by doing a CIA op that would have put about 35 old jets that the USA was getting ready to boneyard(a mix of old F15/16/, A10's.) using private pilots and then a private ground force to advise, assist, and train the Ukraine Army. He said if he the American govt would have done that prior to the invasion as presented, Russia probably would not have invade and if they did, it would have been stopped within days and would have obliterated a lot of the invasion force. The cost would have been about 10%(if i remember that number correctly but it is close) of what we are sending there now.

 

[Raoul Duke MU]

some of it is necessary. Example, training. It allows the experienced guys who get out to stay and train with their expertise. It allows for some expertise that the military may not have. IT, comms, etc.

It's called lobbying.

 

[i am herdman]

It's called lobbying.

Well, probably. But, it is good to keep that experience around. Guys retire and they have expertise and can train people. Nice to keep a 25 year old special ops retiree around who can teach other guys skills and tactics. That is one example. Another would be things like aircraft mechanics.

 

[johns1124]

What to do with the NEW 8 Million illegals?

 

[OldielovesHerd]

No wide draft. No narrow draft. Until politicians children are drafted first and sent to the front lines of any conflict. Get lost, oath breaker.

He does have a point there . Trump was a draft dodger for example.

 

[OldielovesHerd]

What to do with the NEW 8 Million illegals?

Some might be able to help with our supply side problem now.

 

[Rock98Dog]

At almost 60 I’m not going to advocate for a draft that wouldn’t impact me, but I have always thought Israel had it right with two year’s compulsory service requirement.

Does the 1.5% include the National Guard? I had a lot of friends in college join the guard to help pay for school and many stayed active for their 20 years. Many deployments for that group over the years.

 

[riflearm2]

Put me in a war next to guys who don’t know how to do their own taxes? No, thanks.

I love how the guy who blames Democrats for taking away our freedom ignores everything that Trump did in that regard and is now advocating for mandatory military service.

Ever vacationed in Pyongyang? You’d fit in perfectly there.

 

[i am herdman]

Put me in a war next to guys who don’t know how to do their own taxes? No, thanks.

I love how the guy who blames Democrats for taking away our freedom ignores everything that Trump did in that regard and is now advocating for mandatory military service.

Ever vacationed in Pyongyang? You’d fit in perfectly there.

Easy to say when you never raised your right hand. The point is a small percentage are and people like you have no clue but enjoy the fruits of their labor as you live in your make believe world.

I didn't say a draft. I sais is it time to revisit the the all volunteer force. Don't worry, they don't need guys in rompers.

 

[i am herdman]

At almost 60 I’m not going to advocate for a draft that wouldn’t impact me, but I have always thought Israel had it right with two year’s compulsory service requirement.

Does the 1.5% include the National Guard? I had a lot of friends in college join the guard to help pay for school and many stayed active for their 20 years. Many deployments for that group over the years.

Yes includes those in guard and reserve. The amount of people serving is low as compared to the population.

 

[riflearm2]

you have no clue but enjoy the fruits of their labor as you live in your make believe world.

What labor of theirs am I benefiting off of? What combat did you see? Your son? The overwhelming majority of those who serve? Exactly.

You all protected us from Fayetteville when you were at Ft. Bragg. Thanks?

How about you mooches who got your school paid for, helped buy your Airstream, and kept you out of jail or off the streets start thanking the tax payers for funding your life when you never had to do any combat. You’re welcome for paying all of your bills.

My “make believe” life has me just landing from Sweden and back in Norway for the second time this week. Maybe you should start looking at why these Scandinavian countries are always ranked as the happiest and best places to live. They don’t spend all of their money allowing people who can’t do their taxes to get paid to play G.I. Joe without actually doing some beneficial work. Go buy another billion dollar plane that won’t work or will age out in a decade with no combat use. In the meantime, these superior countries are investing in what really matters: things you deplorables work against.

 

[Jartard]

lol. No. You want to depend on some dopehead next to you when the bullets are flying?

As much as I’d want to depend on a mentally ill man pretending to be a woman.

 

[Jartard]

What labor of theirs am I benefiting off of? What combat did you see? Your son? The overwhelming majority of those who serve? Exactly.

You all protected us from Fayetteville when you were at Ft. Bragg. Thanks?

How about you mooches who got your school paid for, helped buy your Airstream, and kept you out of jail or off the streets start thanking the tax payers for funding your life when you never had to do any combat. You’re welcome for paying all of your bills.

My “make believe” life has me just landing from Sweden and back in Norway for the second time this week. Maybe you should start looking at why these Scandinavian countries are always ranked as the happiest and best places to live. They don’t spend all of their money allowing people who can’t do their taxes to get paid to play G.I. Joe without actually doing some beneficial work. Go buy another billion dollar plane that won’t work or will age out in a decade with no combat use. In the meantime, these superior countries are investing in what really matters: things you deplorables work against.

So the military should always be in combat and never used as a deterrence? There’s several of us military combat vets on this board….including @OldielovesHerd

 

[riflearm2]

So the military should always be in combat and never used as a deterrence?

Yeah, all of that deterrence you mooches do at our bases in Germany and elsewhere.

Hey, HerMan. Tell us about all of that combat you saw defending us from the Panama Canal invasion. Maybe I’m wrong - it wasn’t combat. It was deterrence to keep those pesky Colombians from walking through Central America and attacking our southern border, right?

 

[extragreen]

Easy to say when you never raised your right hand.

You raised your right hand and swore to support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic. You LIED through your teeth, oath breaking moron.

 

[i am herdman]

I never said I was in combat. I have been there when people died in training. You are showing you have no clue. Our troops are not always in combat, thankfully. Thst doesn't mean they are not a deterrent and you enjoy freedom from that deterrent. That doesn't mean their training is not hard or dangerous.

The average Joe is not buying billion dollar planes. Hey I agree with you there. Those are the leaders in DC.

So go on back to Wonderland. And you can be thankfull someone does the work to keep it safe.

 

[extragreen]

I never said I was in combat. I have been there when people died in training. You are showing you have no clue. Our troops are not always in combat, thankfully. Thst doesn't mean they are not a deterrent and you enjoy freedom from that deterrent. That doesn't mean their training is not hard or dangerous.

The average Joe is not buying billion dollar planes. Hey I agree with you there. Those are the leaders in DC.

So go on back to Wonderland. And you can be thankfull someone does the work to keep it safe.

And you can shut up and be happy we pay for that safety with taxes.

 

[riflearm2]

I never said I was in combat. I have been there when people died in training. You are showing you have no clue. Our troops are not always in combat, thankfully. Thst doesn't mean they are not a deterrent and you enjoy freedom from that deterrent. That doesn't mean their training is not hard or dangerous.

The average Joe is not buying billion dollar planes. Hey I agree with you there. Those are the leaders in DC.

So go on back to Wonderland. And you can be thankfull someone does the work to keep it safe.

I just checked into The Thief in Oslo. They put me in a Premium room, because Sam Smith has the Oslo suite with the private rooftop. I am meeting him later for dinner, but I am about to head next door to the Astrup Fearnley Museum. From there, I may yonder over to the opera house, since it is supposed to have a great view of the fjord from the rooftop.

It's so nice being in places where the life expectancy is higher, everybody gets healthcare, everybody who works gets a decent pension, children get free/cheap quality education/childcare from age three, parents get 1.5 years off for paternity/maternity leave and still get 80% of their pay, the cities are impeccably clean, the buildings are beautiful and modern, the people socialize nonstop outside, the people are overwhelmingly healthy and it's a struggle to find an obese person, there is little to no gun violence, the public transportation is phenomenal, you can't find a homeless person no matter how hard you look, where the people are happier than anywhere else, and which annually get voted as the best places to live . . . but nope. The U.S. can't have that because we pay people who can't do their own taxes to play G.I. Joe to protect us from the Panama Canal invaders and who "work hard in training" in billion dollar jets that never get used for anything worthwhile.

When should I be expecting your thank you card for all we taxpayers did for you and your family, HerMan?

 

[i am herdman]

I just checked into The Thief in Oslo. They put me in a Premium room, because Sam Smith has the Oslo suite with the private rooftop. I am meeting him later for dinner, but I am about to head next door to the Astrup Fearnley Museum. From there, I may yonder over to the opera house, since it is supposed to have a great view of the fjord from the rooftop.

It's so nice being in places where the life expectancy is higher, everybody gets healthcare, everybody who works gets a decent pension, children get free/cheap quality education/childcare from age three, parents get 1.5 years off for paternity/maternity leave and still get 80% of their pay, the cities are impeccably clean, the buildings are beautiful and modern, the people socialize nonstop outside, the people are overwhelmingly healthy and it's a struggle to find an obese person, there is little to no gun violence, the public transportation is phenomenal, you can't find a homeless person no matter how hard you look, where the people are happier than anywhere else, and which annually get voted as the best places to live . . . but nope. The U.S. can't have that because we pay people who can't do their own taxes to play G.I. Joe to protect us from the Panama Canal invaders and who "work hard in training" in billion dollar jets that never get used for anything worthwhile.

When should I be expecting your thank you card for all we taxpayers did for you and your family, HerMan?

I pay my taxes too.

I bring up an jdea and the two leftists on here go crazy. Imagine that. You are proving my tunnel vision theory with your posts.

 

[extragreen]

I pay my taxes too.

I bring up an jdea and the two leftists on here go crazy. Imagine that. You are peoving5my tunnel vision theory with your posts.

The only theories you have are conspiracy theories. And you're an idiot.

 

[i am herdman]

The only theories you have are conspiracy theories. And you're an idiot.

so, you say if more people were involved like polticians kids it would be better. SO, what is wrong with my idea? We have a narrow group of people serving and have since 1973 and fewer now than in the 70's, 80's, 90's. SO why not try to get more people in? Then, the decision making would be better. We would get more people that have been there and done that with experience or empathy. Instread of let's do this and push the button or let them go do this or that.

20 years of Iraq and Afghanistan, which you rail on. Name me all the Generals or brass or decision makers that ever got relieved of command? FIred? Removed? Told to do something else? why do have old equipment? Mold in barracks? 22 veterans a day killing themselves? Yet, what ever changes? How many poltiicians on both sides just rubber stamped stuff or got rich from it? Or do this and that with zero reprecussion or accountability?

This is not a R or D thing. It is how do we make it better? All of us. The blame goes around, there have been D and R Presidents and D and R congressmen and senators. Both sides.

I am raising a legitimate idea and concern. We have a narrow band of people for decades who have served and their close family members. That is far different than previous generations. How can you sustain national identity or natioanl purpose if less than 2% do it? Then, counting their families it is only 5% or less knowing the situation?