Israeli military hubris and conceit

[Raoul Duke MU]

An interesting picture of the failures of the IDF and intelligence services is beginning to emerge.

One takeaway that should be important to those of you on this board: walls and remote cameras and sensors aren't worth a shit without some serious manpower. Cameras and sensors were defeated before the wall was breached. Israel had moved large numbers of troops away from the Gaza border because they were smug in the capabilities of their wall, cameras and sensors, and remote-controlled guns.

Of note to anyone with a brain or perhaps military experience: coms must be discreet, hardened, and multi -redundant, otherwise coms are useless. Relying on cell towers is not a good idea.

Underestimating your enemy is deadly. So is overestimating yourself.


How Israel’s Feared Security Services Failed to Stop Hamas’s Attack https://www.nytimes.com/2023/10/10/world/middleeast/israel-gaza-security-failure.html?smid=nytcore-android-share

 

[Rock98Dog]

And if they had none of that, would that have been better or worse?

I’m confused, are you making the point that we should heavy fortify our southern border in addition to a wall and remote security measures?

 

[HerdandHokies]

And if they had none of that, would that have been better or worse?

I’m confused, are you making the point that we should heavy fortify our southern border in addition to a wall and remote security measures?

The point is that if people want to attack and kill a bunch of civilians, if you have anything resembling a free society eventually they're going to be able to do that. The more effective thing is to create fewer people who want to do that.

 

[mlblack16.]

The more effective thing is to create fewer people who want to do that.

God, you libs live in the land of make believe.

 

[mlblack16.]

And if they had none of that, would that have been better or worse?

I’m confused, are you making the point that we should heavy fortify our southern border in addition to a wall and remote security measures?

No he's saying we should take the Mayorkas approach and allow our enemies to walk freely across our border and then "kill them with kindness" by giving them all kinds of free shit.

 

[herdfan429]

The point is that if people want to attack and kill a bunch of civilians, if you have anything resembling a free society eventually they're going to be able to do that. The more effective thing is to create fewer people who want to do that.

People that behead babies will still want to do that no matter the circumstances

 

[i am herdman]

The point is that if people want to attack and kill a bunch of civilians, if you have anything resembling a free society eventually they're going to be able to do that. The more effective thing is to create fewer people who want to do that.

Hahaaa. Yehh like giving Iran billions will make them not want to e a terrorist state.

Nation building makes the Taliban better.

Do you understand thst some of these groups want to kill everyone who is not a harcore radical Muslim? Kill every Jew?

They would cut your head off after you watch them rape your wife?

Sometimes there is pure evil.

 

[ThunderCat98]

I think Raoul was saying that walls and tech don't matter if you don't have enough people statitioned within a few minutes response time from a given location. Without boots on the ground to apprehend or intercept, those other deterrents are easily circumvented.

 

[mlblack16.]

I think Raoul was saying that walls and tech don't matter if you don't have enough people statitioned within a few minutes response time from a given location. Without boots on the ground to apprehend or intercept, those other deterrents are easily circumvented.

yeah, that's not the part anyone took issue with. You know his liberaltarian ass was trying to use that as a point for the Southern border and building a wall.

 

[GeauxHerd]

God, you libs live in the land of make believe.

I believe the correct term is “eliminate” people like that so there are fewer of them.

 

[Raoul Duke MU]

And if they had none of that, would that have been better or worse?

I’m confused, are you making the point that we should heavy fortify our southern border in addition to a wall and remote security measures?

IMO they may have been better off by not relying on technology over manpower.

The point is a wall is not the end all of security, neither are cameras and sensors, and has a real effect of a false sense of security. Real security is boots on the ground. Lots of boots attached to people carrying long guns.

 

[Raoul Duke MU]

People that behead babies will still want to do that no matter the circumstances

Yes, let's not confuse terrorists with migrants. It's a whole other ballgame as far as cause and effect.

Sure, Gaza is a shithole and Israel has done some rotten stuff to it, but that's cause to wage war against Israeli government and military, not babies. Sick shit there, and they'd be doing it even if Israel treated them like royalty.

 

[Raoul Duke MU]

I think Raoul was saying that walls and tech don't matter if you don't have enough people statitioned within a few minutes response time from a given location. Without boots on the ground to apprehend or intercept, those other deterrents are easily circumvented.

This is my military point, yes. Gaza sends 1000 terrorists? You better have a 1000 troops waiting to meet them.

yeah, that's not the part anyone took issue with. You know his liberaltarian ass was trying to use that as a point for the Southern border and building a wall.

For folks like you, it is a point of not falling for false security. 2000 miles of wall, it will be breached many, many times. It's a big place down there. Israel couldn't hold 36 miles of wall, and that is the most militarized nation on earth (for good reason).

Be prepared to find a way to hire many thousands of border agents if you want to end the wink and nood of what we do now for cheap labor.

 

[30CAT]

People that behead babies will still want to do that no matter the circumstances

Yep. There will be no ridding this world of evil. The best we can do is fight it and send it into hiding, but know, it will be back.

 

[i am herdman]

Let's talk about the sophistication of the operation. This was a well trained and coordinatin

IMO they may have been better off by not relying on technology over manpower.

The point is a wall is not the end all of security, neither are cameras and sensors, and has a real effect of a false sense of security. Real security is boots on the ground. Lots of boots attached to people carrying long guns.

A wall or a barrier is part of a defense. The wall there and barrier makes sense. They were caught sleeping literally and figuratively. HAMAS obviously had run good Intel and had operational surprise. Holiday weekend. They knew weak points and vulnerability.

 

[mlblack16.]

This is my military point, yes. Gaza sends 1000 terrorists? You better have a 1000 troops waiting to meet them.

For folks like you, it is a point of not falling for false security. 2000 miles of wall, it will be breached many, many times. It's a big place down there. Israel couldn't hold 36 miles of wall, and that is the most militarized nation on earth (for good reason).

Be prepared to find a way to hire many thousands of border agents if you want to end the wink and nood of what we do now for cheap labor.

The problem with your answer and your starry-eyed friend H&H's is that neither one is feasible.

If border walls were that ineffective, they would've stopped building them centuries ago. But that's not the case, is it? Plenty of countries have a border wall that isn't impenetrable but is a more viable option than sitting around, hoping for world peace or for the government to staff that many personnel.

Your Dementia Jesus would rather spend funds on IRS agents to squeeze every last dime out of Joe Public.

 

[30CAT]

Your Dementia Jesus would rather spend funds on IRS agents to squeeze every last dime out of Joe Public.

Imagine how much better it would have been to hire 87,000 more border patrol agents than IRS agents. We don't even have 20,000 border patrol agents.

 

[SamSwimmer]

Israeli citizens are OUTRAGED at Bibi right now.

 

[i am herdman]

It was really, a lot of it, a tactical blunder. The Israeli's got complacent. Got lazy. Lost situation and tactical awareness. Hamas took advantage of that tactically. It wasn't really they needed a man every 10 feet on a wall. Or even to match a 1,000 with a 1,000. Some of their troops were actually caught sleeping and in barracks as it was a weekend and a holiday. Guarantee Hamas had watched this and patterned it. The got sloppy and lazy. Then, we are a weak point during a holiday. Like falling asleep on guard duty. Not paying attention. Got into bad habits.

There were also obvious intel failures. Or did they have info and it got caught up in the chain of command? In red tape?

Probably lots of questions and failure. But, at the root level they were tactically caught with their guard down. Their enemy took advantage of it.

 

[Rock98Dog]

By the logic here there’s no reason to lock your front door. Anyone who wants to get in can still get in.

The blowing up of the security measures was the heads up, much like an alarm in your house going off is your alert to grab your handgun from the nightstand.

Yes, a locked front door isn’t all you need to be safe. But it’s an important part of an overall safety strategy. Just like a border barrier is necessary if you don’t want to have to station an outpost every 100 feet.

 

[extragreen]

Be prepared to find a way to hire many thousands of border agents

Exactly. I have told the board this^^^many times.

 

[i am herdman]

comparing Israel's border and our border is like comparing an apple tree and a crock pot.

It is not even the same comparison. We don't need thousand of border agents. We need a deterent and more importantly we need stronger court systems and enforcement of sending people back. We need funnel points and we need to make it harder just to walk across.

Israel is in a tactical situation surronded on all sides by people that want to destroy their entire race.

One is comparing illegal immigration and the other is one that can me immediate life and death and could destory the entire life there.

 

[extragreen]

comparing Israel's need for a border wall and our need for a border wall is like comparing an apple tree and a crock pot.

Exactly. oath breaker trumptard.

 

[i am herdman]

Exactly. oath breaker trumptard.

That's why your alls analogy is stupid

 

[30CAT]

comparing Israel's border and our border is like comparing an apple tree and a crock pot.

It is not even the same comparison. We don't need thousand of border agents. We need a deterent and more importantly we need stronger court systems and enforcement of sending people back. We need funnel points and we need to make it harder just to walk across.

Israel is in a tactical situation surronded on all sides by people that want to destroy their entire race.

One is comparing illegal immigration and the other is one that can me immediate life and death and could destory the entire life there.

Exactly. Pedo-Joe just needs to follow the Constitution, enforce our laws and stop doing the opposite.

 

[extragreen]

That's why your alls analogy is stupid

No. You're so stupid that you declare the 2 borders are in no way familiar, but want to treat the 2 borders the same way. And you're so stupid that you don't realize you did that. You lying trumptard oath breaker magat.

 

[extragreen]

Exactly. Pedo-Joe just needs to follow the Constitution, enforce our laws and stop doing the opposite.

^^Says the guy who supports and defends an x president that incited an insurrection against the United States government (Constitution) and illegally attempted to overturn the results of a free and fair election. You're a lying idiot.

 

[Raoul Duke MU]

We need a deterent

Cool. Where is the Republican bill to imprison the owners and CEOs of businesses that hire illegals? I've been supporting that on this board since the old board.

I would say where is the Democrat bill, but you don't vote for them anyway.

We need funnel points and we need to make it harder just to walk across.

2000 miles dude.

 

[30CAT]

^^Says the guy who supports and defends an x president that incited an insurrection against the United States government (Constitution) and illegally attempted to overturn the results of a free and fair election. You're a lying idiot.

One would think he would be charged with that, if it were true.

 

[extragreen]

One would think he would be charged with that, if it were true.

You're a lying idiot.

18 U.S.C. § 241

 

[30CAT]

You're a lying idiot.

18 U.S.C. § 241

Show me where he is charged with it.

 

[extragreen]

Show me where he is charged with it.

18 U.S.C. § 241

 

[30CAT]

18 U.S.C. § 241

I didn't see Trump's name mentioned once. They didn't charge him because he didn't do anything. If he did, we both know Democrats would have been on it like Pelosi on a bar stool.

 

[extragreen]

I didn't see Trump's name mentioned once. They didn't charge him because he didn't do anything. If he did, we both know Democrats would have been on it like Pelosi on a bar stool.

18 U.S.C. § 241

That ^^^ is one of the 4 felonies your orange Jesus is charged with by jack smith.

 

[i am herdman]

No. You're so stupid that you declare the 2 borders are in no way familiar, but want to treat the 2 borders the same way. And you're so stupid that you don't realize you did that. You lying trumptard oath breaker magat.

I want to treat them the same way? Says who? Ft Knox Gold Depository has a fence. Is that the same as the US souther border? No. Ft Bragg has a fence in places? Is that the same? No.

Stop making shit up, moron. Israel's border is different that ours idiot. There is difference is a tactical situation and the US Southern border.

You are really a simplistic moron.

 

[extragreen]

I want to treat them the same way? Says who? Ft Knox Gold Depository has a fence. Is that the same as the US souther border? No. Ft Bragg has a fence in places? Is that the same? No.

Stop making shit up, moron. Israel's border is different that ours idiot. There is difference is a tactical situation and the US Southern border.

You are really a simplistic moron.

You're an idiot trumptard making my point for me. Oath breaking magat.

 

[i am herdman]

You're an idiot trumptard making my point for me. Oath breaking magat.

You have no point and never have.

 

[extragreen]

You have no point and never have.

You're an idiot trumptard making my point for me. Oath breaking magat.

 

[Jartard]

This is my military point, yes. Gaza sends 1000 terrorists? You better have a 1000 troops waiting to meet them.

For folks like you, it is a point of not falling for false security. 2000 miles of wall, it will be breached many, many times. It's a big place down there. Israel couldn't hold 36 miles of wall, and that is the most militarized nation on earth (for good reason).

Be prepared to find a way to hire many thousands of border agents if you want to end the wink and nood of what we do now for cheap labor.

Are you stupid enough to think that the wall has NEVER provided Israel with any security? You think just an open Israel would have prevented this, or that this wouldn’t have happened before now without a wall? GD, are the pills you are popping your stupid pills? 💊

 

[i am herdman]

Are you stupid enough to think that the wall has NEVER provided Israel with any security? You think just an open Israel would have prevented this, or that this wouldn’t have happened before now without a wall? GD, are the pills you are popping your stupid pills? 💊

His post doest make sense.