It only makes sense to have multiple back-up plans for realignment

[Herd Insider]

It only makes sense to have multiple back-up plans for realignment, with the last being to stay in Conference USA as it is currently configured. Our AD should be communicating with all relevant conferences and teams using all of our contacts regarding secret and double-secret conference affiliations. This IS the Game of Thrones being played out on the college football level. As in the series, the most powerful do not always win, but the most cunning do. With that said, Plan A: Contact our ally in AAC, ECU, to lobby for putting us in the conference in the event it is raided by the B12 (or any other conference for that matter). Give them "talking points." Secretly talk to other members with whom we have some type of relationship. This is the best conference affiliation we could hope for. Plan B: Enter into discussions with all the teams from the east division of the Sun Belt. Geographically, combining the east division of CUSA and the east division of the Sun Belt minus ODU and Ga. State while picking up ASUN Conference member Liberty, is the THE BEST realignment we could hope for after AAC. By dropping ODU we get rid of a long drive to play a bad team. Ga. State is no big loss but we gain our old playoff rival, Ga. Southern. And don't laugh at Liberty. In this reconfigured hypothetical conference it would be ranked second only to Coastal Carolina, then App. State, then UAB, then us. The new standard for conference affiliation membership is no longer TV market. It is now the ability to gain and maintain live-streaming subscriptions. LU already HAS its own TV network, something no other college in this hypothetical conference can say. You can pass up alcohol for one game every two years. With an enrollment of 47,025 it is the 15th largest college in the US. Imagine the size of the alumni base which equates into streaming subscriptions nationwide. Think BYU of the east. What else do we gain? Ability to drive to more games. Liberty and App. State are gorgeous and easy drives. Coastal is near... Myrtle Beach. Enough said. FAU is in Florida. Enough said. UNCC is an easy drive for an even easier win. Plus reunification with traditional rivals while keeping the ones we have in CUSA- WKU, UAB and So. Miss. We regain Ga. Southern, App. State and Troy. Instead of one big game a year, we now have at least 4-5 that are meaningful to us. Finally, it's a "southern" conference. We like traveling "south." Plan C: Simply swap out Sun Belt east division for CUSA west division. As for the name IDC. So put away your egos and your bias and push this idea hard to Jeff. This will be the LAST Realignment and our backs are literally against the wall. We simply cannot afford to stay in this east Virginia to west Texas conference.

 

[Bayou Boiler]

Your Plan B scenario would make for a pretty good football conference for sure and a pretty decent Men's BB and Baseball conference as well.

 

[Herdmeister]

Your Plan B scenario would make for a pretty good football conference for sure and a pretty decent Men's BB and Baseball conference as well.

Except losing ODU in basketball would be a loss. They have been the top live gate in the league every year since Memphis exited

 

[The Real SamC]

Plan A is not happening. Not because we are not an attractive candidate to a raided AAC, because we would be; and not because ECU would not advocate for us, because they would; but simply because the AAC is not being raided by the Leftover Little 8. Rather, WVU and ISU will move to the AAC. The Texas Leftovers and OSU will move to the MWC. The Kansas Leftovers are TBA, KU wants in the B10 and has a shot, KSU is either AAC or MWC.

Plan B is what probably should happen. I agree with everything you say about Liberty. The only reason it is not in CUSA today is religious bigotry by certain university presidents, including our own. As to the rest, all would be solid teams. I don’t know what you have against Georgia State. Yes, its a commuter college with zero fans. So are FAU, FIU, and UNCC. Subject to seeing what happens with their new stadium, so us UAB.

With WVU returned to a mid-major conference, and every other team in the league playing in the giant shadow of the SEC and/or the ACC, we should be in a very good position to do well.

 

[Herd Insider]

Gilbert is gone after June 30, 2022.

 

[ru4_mu2]

"certain university presidents, including our own"

Where is this located? I would like to read the article with Dr. Gilbert's statement.

 

[TwolfHerdfan]

Gilbert is gone after June 30, 2022.

And that's not a good thing either. jmo.

 

[The Real SamC]

"certain university presidents, including our own"

Where is this located? I would like to read the article with Dr. Gilbert's statement.

It has been publicly stated that LU offered both CUSA and the SBC $24M as an entry fee (standard fee is $2M) and were unanimously rejected by the university presidents. This was due to religious bigotry on their part. Gilbert has never denied that this action was taken, or articulated why exactly we turned down $24M.

 

[TwolfHerdfan]

It has been publicly stated that LU offered both CUSA and the SBC $24M as an entry fee (standard fee is $2M) and were unanimously rejected by the university presidents. This was due to religious bigotry on their part. Gilbert has never denied that this action was taken, or articulated why exactly we turned down $24M.

Do you know if he was ever asked directly?

 

[GoHerdMarshallYes]

It only makes sense to have multiple back-up plans for realignment, with the last being to stay in Conference USA as it is currently configured. Our AD should be communicating with all relevant conferences and teams using all of our contacts regarding secret and double-secret conference affiliations. This IS the Game of Thrones being played out on the college football level. As in the series, the most powerful do not always win, but the most cunning do. With that said, Plan A: Contact our ally in AAC, ECU, to lobby for putting us in the conference in the event it is raided by the B12 (or any other conference for that matter). Give them "talking points." Secretly talk to other members with whom we have some type of relationship. This is the best conference affiliation we could hope for. Plan B: Enter into discussions with all the teams from the east division of the Sun Belt. Geographically, combining the east division of CUSA and the east division of the Sun Belt minus ODU and Ga. State while picking up ASUN Conference member Liberty, is the THE BEST realignment we could hope for after AAC. By dropping ODU we get rid of a long drive to play a bad team. Ga. State is no big loss but we gain our old playoff rival, Ga. Southern. And don't laugh at Liberty. In this reconfigured hypothetical conference it would be ranked second only to Coastal Carolina, then App. State, then UAB, then us. The new standard for conference affiliation membership is no longer TV market. It is now the ability to gain and maintain live-streaming subscriptions. LU already HAS its own TV network, something no other college in this hypothetical conference can say. You can pass up alcohol for one game every two years. With an enrollment of 47,025 it is the 15th largest college in the US. Imagine the size of the alumni base which equates into streaming subscriptions nationwide. Think BYU of the east. What else do we gain? Ability to drive to more games. Liberty and App. State are gorgeous and easy drives. Coastal is near... Myrtle Beach. Enough said. FAU is in Florida. Enough said. UNCC is an easy drive for an even easier win. Plus reunification with traditional rivals while keeping the ones we have in CUSA- WKU, UAB and So. Miss. We regain Ga. Southern, App. State and Troy. Instead of one big game a year, we now have at least 4-5 that are meaningful to us. Finally, it's a "southern" conference. We like traveling "south." Plan C: Simply swap out Sun Belt east division for CUSA west division. As for the name IDC. So put away your egos and your bias and push this idea hard to Jeff. This will be the LAST Realignment and our backs are literally against the wall. We simply cannot afford to stay in this east Virginia to west Texas conference.

Sounds great. If only our idiot governor's influence in the MU BoG to remove the AD who could legitimately have made moves for MU.

 

[TwolfHerdfan]

Sounds great. If only our idiot governor's influence in the MU BoG to remove the AD who could legitimately have made moves for MU.

lol! I don't know. Those in the Schewey seem pretty content with CUSA. Unsubstantiated reports aside, I don't think MH or JG have ever publicly said they want out of CUSA.

 

[GoHerdMarshallYes]

lol! I don't know. Those in the Schewey seem pretty content with CUSA. Unsubstantiated reports aside, I don't think MH or JG have ever publicly said they want out of CUSA.

At the time of last realignment, MU simply did not have the money nor facilities to get out. Combined with Snyder's inability to make MU a competitor, MU simply wasn't in a position to move up.
Confidence would have been completely lost had Hamrick even tried, given the fanbase applauding his removal, many are kidding themselves for thinking otherwise.
He knew MU didn't have the credentials to do so.
Now? Why else is he beefing up facilities? Why even bother with a baseball field or soccer stadium? I think MU had a decent case to move out of CUSA since they were showing they cared about their sports.

 

[GoHerdMarshallYes]

It only makes sense to have multiple back-up plans for realignment, with the last being to stay in Conference USA as it is currently configured. Our AD should be communicating with all relevant conferences and teams using all of our contacts regarding secret and double-secret conference affiliations. This IS the Game of Thrones being played out on the college football level. As in the series, the most powerful do not always win, but the most cunning do. With that said, Plan A: Contact our ally in AAC, ECU, to lobby for putting us in the conference in the event it is raided by the B12 (or any other conference for that matter). Give them "talking points." Secretly talk to other members with whom we have some type of relationship. This is the best conference affiliation we could hope for. Plan B: Enter into discussions with all the teams from the east division of the Sun Belt. Geographically, combining the east division of CUSA and the east division of the Sun Belt minus ODU and Ga. State while picking up ASUN Conference member Liberty, is the THE BEST realignment we could hope for after AAC. By dropping ODU we get rid of a long drive to play a bad team. Ga. State is no big loss but we gain our old playoff rival, Ga. Southern. And don't laugh at Liberty. In this reconfigured hypothetical conference it would be ranked second only to Coastal Carolina, then App. State, then UAB, then us. The new standard for conference affiliation membership is no longer TV market. It is now the ability to gain and maintain live-streaming subscriptions. LU already HAS its own TV network, something no other college in this hypothetical conference can say. You can pass up alcohol for one game every two years. With an enrollment of 47,025 it is the 15th largest college in the US. Imagine the size of the alumni base which equates into streaming subscriptions nationwide. Think BYU of the east. What else do we gain? Ability to drive to more games. Liberty and App. State are gorgeous and easy drives. Coastal is near... Myrtle Beach. Enough said. FAU is in Florida. Enough said. UNCC is an easy drive for an even easier win. Plus reunification with traditional rivals while keeping the ones we have in CUSA- WKU, UAB and So. Miss. We regain Ga. Southern, App. State and Troy. Instead of one big game a year, we now have at least 4-5 that are meaningful to us. Finally, it's a "southern" conference. We like traveling "south." Plan C: Simply swap out Sun Belt east division for CUSA west division. As for the name IDC. So put away your egos and your bias and push this idea hard to Jeff. This will be the LAST Realignment and our backs are literally against the wall. We simply cannot afford to stay in this east Virginia to west Texas conference.

You failed to notice the ally you claim for MU is probably the weakest one in the AAC. They bring absolutely no bargaining power...had they been at the top for most of the AAC, they probably could have called the shots.
They're one of the bottom in finances and have a terrible record since joining.
The one you should have mentioned, is ucf. Yes, their history with MU is based entirely because of the MAC and CUSA only. They, however, are probably the last program to positively want MU in.

Game of Thrones??
They're the Joffrey Baratheon of the college football world. A sniveling little sh*t who got some power, stabbed everyone in the back, and all of Westeros will rejoice once he's ultimately murdered and out of power (well, just NCAA fans).

For the record, wvu is Viserys Targaryen, running around with the P5's who comprise the collegiate equivalent of the Dothraki. Screaming how, "I shall rule over all of you once my throne is restored! Bow to me!!" and actually being laughed at by everyone, if not ignored, and relegated to slave labor...eventually meeting a really cool demise if you haven't read the book.

The G5 are basically the Night's Watch on that damn wall. Sentenced to a purgatory existence while doing what they can to have a purpose and meaning since aspects of such things (marriage, own land, have kids, etc) no longer exist for them. In our case, its winning a NC, being given fair payouts, and having a voice to claim unfair treatment from higher ups.

The Big 10 is Tyrion Lannister. Smart, two-faced, and manipulative. He has his own goals and will not be afraid to trample over skulls to get them.
The BS Big 10 "Alliance" is no more to them than an audition to who is the most financially lucrative team to pluck from their current conference...they know this and will make the domino's fall when ready.

Liberty are a funny bunch. Why let them into a conference then conform to such demands (as you posted) no alcohol at their games?
Just because Texas has money, doesn't mean they're going to kick down the SEC door of AD's and call the shots. They'll be laughed out of the room.
There's a reason Liberty isn't in a conference, same with BYU. They demand aspects of the conference change for them specifically, and that can be bad for finances.
I'd be fine with Liberty being in CUSA if they paid out MU and the campus area, to be dry for the game...lost monies through alcohol revenue...to every school who sells it.
Same for BYU, pay the schools for losing money by not playing on a Sunday...we make exceptions, you afford to buyout your reason.

Also, Liberty is/was piloted by a psycho. No beer but he and his wife have a ton of pineapple stuff in their yard...Liberty is home to kids who don't read/watch Harry Potter because they legit believe they shouldn't be subjected to witchcraft since The Bible is against it. Have fun being constantly judged by a collective like that.

For the record, B sounds about the most sensical out of them.

It may not matter in the end since there could be a complete re-shuffling of what constitutes a true D1 football program, and several programs may be cut or relegated because of it.

 

[Herd Insider]

Well played GoHerdMarshallYes...well played!👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏

 

[TwolfHerdfan]

At the time of last realignment, MU simply did not have the money nor facilities to get out. Combined with Snyder's inability to make MU a competitor, MU simply wasn't in a position to move up.
Confidence would have been completely lost had Hamrick even tried, given the fanbase applauding his removal, many are kidding themselves for thinking otherwise.
He knew MU didn't have the credentials to do so.
Now? Why else is he beefing up facilities? Why even bother with a baseball field or soccer stadium? I think MU had a decent case to move out of CUSA since they were showing they cared about their sports.

I am sure we would want to move out. It’s not the desire, it’s the financial aspect. That’s likely what has stymied any statements coming from the Schewey. I am sure they are certainly more comfortable dealing with a CUSA size budget than trying to up the ante 10 Mil or so to compete in the AAC. Jmho

 

[The Real SamC]

Expecting an AD or a college president to publicly state they are trying to get in a new conference is like expecting a movie theatre manager to say “well, the movie we have this week is crap, but I’m trying to find something worth watching for next time”. The people in charge are QUIETLY examining their options and understand what the deal is. MH is failing at raising money for a baseball stadium that will never be, and JG is on realtor.com looking at condos in Boca.

First, IMHO, the AAC is going to have two new members. WVU and Iowa State. If that doesn’t happen, the second most likely scenario is the Leftover Little 8 saves their silly league by “raiding” 2 or 4 AAC members. Which then in turn causes a cascade or steps in which we must be nimble.

Do we really fit in the AAC? Let’s look at the numbers.

Marshall has about 14K students, and is the #74 TV market (DMA) with 367K TV homes (a third of those in Ohio or Kentucky), which is 0.3% of the country. MU fandom is based on having a solid following among alumni and townies in small city. The secret to our success in marketing is how far away (Cincy is 150 miles away) pro sports are, and how insignificant WVU is, contrasted to successful programs that really belong in the P5.

The only real analogue in the AAC is ECU. 28K students, but a tiny TV market (#100, 265K, 0.2%) and no real following outside its alumni base and town. And playing in the giant shadow of UNC and NCSU. (About whom they have the world’s worst case of little brother.)

The rest? The basic AAC play book is being IN, but NOT SIGNIFICANT IN, a big city. Each plays in the giant shadow on the ACC, SEC, or the SEC to be, or both. Each plays in a pro market with 1000 other things to do. Let’s look at the numbers, starting with the public schools.

UCF. 69K students. #18 DMA, 1.5M TV homes, 1.4% of the population. Giant shadow of both major traditional Florida schools, no better than 3rd, probably far lower in its own market, NBA in market, NFL, NHL and MLB 85 miles away.

UC. 46K students. #37 DMA, 828K, 0.78%. Huge shadow of Ohio State, and (big Catholic town) Notre Dame, and of UK in the KY suburbs. MLB and NFL in market, NHL less than 2 hours away.

UH. 46K students. #8 DMA, 2.3M, 2.2%. Huge shadow of the SEC2B, probably the 8th or 10th most popular team in its own market. NFL, NBA, and MLB (rumors of NHL) in market.

Memphis. 21K students. #51 DMA, 580K, 0.5%. Memphis’ deal is pretty simple. It is the big city that people in that part of the world gravitate to for work. Play any SEC team they can, particularly UT, Ole Miss, Miss. State, or Arkansas and keep the program going on sales to fans of the visiting team. Fudges attendance numbers, but still claims about half a crowd (25K) for non-SEC games. NBA in market.

USF. (America’s most woefully misnamed college). 50K students. #12 DMA, 1.8M, 1.7%. UCF, only with a lot of old folks from “back home” who do not change loyalties at age 60 or 70. Rented, off-campus, pro stadium. MLB, NHL, and NFL in market. 1000 other things to do.

Temple. Their one fan is out of the slam, so there is that. #4 DMA, 2.8M, 2.6%. But 100000 other things to do, full set of pro teams, probably the 15th most popular team in the area.

Thus Marshall would be half the size of the next smallest public school in the league, with the second smallest (and shrinking by the second) TV market. Another outlier, to a conference based on a totally different marketing scheme.

To complete, the private schools:

SMU. 11K students. #5, 2.7M 2.4%, $1.6B endowment. Tuition is $56K/year. SEC2B shadow, Full set of pro teams, 100000 other things to do.

Tulane 11K student. #50 615K, 0.6%. $1.4B endowment. Tuition is $56K/year. SEC shadow. NFL and NBA. 10000 other things to do, none of which your mother would approve of.

Tulsa. 3K students. #58, 509K, 0.47%. $1.1B endowment. Tuition is $56K. SEC2B shadow, no one really cases.

Now lets look at, assuming the AAC really does get raided, some other candidates.

UAB. 22K students. #44 DMA, 666K, 0.6%. Of course, in the HUGE shadow of the SEC, but the exact type of school the AAC is built around. In a big (bigish) city, but not significant. Brand new stadium.

FIU and/or FAU. Same deal. In, but not significant in, a big city. They could claim a presence in every Florida big market, save Jacksonville. 30K and 55K students. But full set of pro sports and 100000000 other things to do.

UNLV. Don’t laugh. #39 DMA, but it was like #100 25 years ago. 745K, 0.7%. Second fastest growing metro area in the country. Brand new NFL stadium. Alumni and fans of every place live there and visit there. 30K students.

SDSU and/or SJSU. Brings the huge San Diego and/or San Francisco, et al, markets. Shadow of the Pac 12, which ain’t the same. 40K students each. But 100000 other things to do, and lots of pro sports.

Appy State. 21K students. TV market is technically Charlotte #21, but a play in Asheville #39, as well. Good following in the NC cities. Growing. But, like ECU, in the huge shadow of the ACC.

Liberty. Technically 95K students, but really 16K on campus. TV market is # 69, 384K, 0.35%, but that is irrelevant. The play here is they want to be the “evangelical Notre Dame”, among people of that religious view, and especially the on-line deal they have going. $1.7B endowment. $22K tuition for on-campus.

BYU. 33K students. Endowment is $2B. Tuition is a church subsidized $10K, but LDS requires tithing for life. Fastest growing city in America and fastest growing religion on earth. The “Mormon Notre Dame”. #30, 952K, 0.9%. Same pull as LU, just a bigger city, and bigger religion.

So show me the similarities between MU and the AAC members, save for ECU. A bunch of big city schools with much larger student bodies (mostly commuters) and much larger resources.

 

[Bayou Boiler]

Expecting an AD or a college president to publicly state they are trying to get in a new conference is like expecting a movie theatre manager to say “well, the movie we have this week is crap, but I’m trying to find something worth watching for next time”. The people in charge are QUIETLY examining their options and understand what the deal is. MH is failing at raising money for a baseball stadium that will never be, and JG is on realtor.com looking at condos in Boca.

First, IMHO, the AAC is going to have two new members. WVU and Iowa State. If that doesn’t happen, the second most likely scenario is the Leftover Little 8 saves their silly league by “raiding” 2 or 4 AAC members. Which then in turn causes a cascade or steps in which we must be nimble.

Do we really fit in the AAC? Let’s look at the numbers.

Marshall has about 14K students, and is the #74 TV market (DMA) with 367K TV homes (a third of those in Ohio or Kentucky), which is 0.3% of the country. MU fandom is based on having a solid following among alumni and townies in small city. The secret to our success in marketing is how far away (Cincy is 150 miles away) pro sports are, and how insignificant WVU is, contrasted to successful programs that really belong in the P5.

The only real analogue in the AAC is ECU. 28K students, but a tiny TV market (#100, 265K, 0.2%) and no real following outside its alumni base and town. And playing in the giant shadow of UNC and NCSU. (About whom they have the world’s worst case of little brother.)

The rest? The basic AAC play book is being IN, but NOT SIGNIFICANT IN, a big city. Each plays in the giant shadow on the ACC, SEC, or the SEC to be, or both. Each plays in a pro market with 1000 other things to do. Let’s look at the numbers, starting with the public schools.

UCF. 69K students. #18 DMA, 1.5M TV homes, 1.4% of the population. Giant shadow of both major traditional Florida schools, no better than 3rd, probably far lower in its own market, NBA in market, NFL, NHL and MLB 85 miles away.

UC. 46K students. #37 DMA, 828K, 0.78%. Huge shadow of Ohio State, and (big Catholic town) Notre Dame, and of UK in the KY suburbs. MLB and NFL in market, NHL less than 2 hours away.

UH. 46K students. #8 DMA, 2.3M, 2.2%. Huge shadow of the SEC2B, probably the 8th or 10th most popular team in its own market. NFL, NBA, and MLB (rumors of NHL) in market.

Memphis. 21K students. #51 DMA, 580K, 0.5%. Memphis’ deal is pretty simple. It is the big city that people in that part of the world gravitate to for work. Play any SEC team they can, particularly UT, Ole Miss, Miss. State, or Arkansas and keep the program going on sales to fans of the visiting team. Fudges attendance numbers, but still claims about half a crowd (25K) for non-SEC games. NBA in market.

USF. (America’s most woefully misnamed college). 50K students. #12 DMA, 1.8M, 1.7%. UCF, only with a lot of old folks from “back home” who do not change loyalties at age 60 or 70. Rented, off-campus, pro stadium. MLB, NHL, and NFL in market. 1000 other things to do.

Temple. Their one fan is out of the slam, so there is that. #4 DMA, 2.8M, 2.6%. But 100000 other things to do, full set of pro teams, probably the 15th most popular team in the area.

Thus Marshall would be half the size of the next smallest public school in the league, with the second smallest (and shrinking by the second) TV market. Another outlier, to a conference based on a totally different marketing scheme.

To complete, the private schools:

SMU. 11K students. #5, 2.7M 2.4%, $1.6B endowment. Tuition is $56K/year. SEC2B shadow, Full set of pro teams, 100000 other things to do.

Tulane 11K student. #50 615K, 0.6%. $1.4B endowment. Tuition is $56K/year. SEC shadow. NFL and NBA. 10000 other things to do, none of which your mother would approve of.

Tulsa. 3K students. #58, 509K, 0.47%. $1.1B endowment. Tuition is $56K. SEC2B shadow, no one really cases.

Now lets look at, assuming the AAC really does get raided, some other candidates.

UAB. 22K students. #44 DMA, 666K, 0.6%. Of course, in the HUGE shadow of the SEC, but the exact type of school the AAC is built around. In a big (bigish) city, but not significant. Brand new stadium.

FIU and/or FAU. Same deal. In, but not significant in, a big city. They could claim a presence in every Florida big market, save Jacksonville. 30K and 55K students. But full set of pro sports and 100000000 other things to do.

UNLV. Don’t laugh. #39 DMA, but it was like #100 25 years ago. 745K, 0.7%. Second fastest growing metro area in the country. Brand new NFL stadium. Alumni and fans of every place live there and visit there. 30K students.

SDSU and/or SJSU. Brings the huge San Diego and/or San Francisco, et al, markets. Shadow of the Pac 12, which ain’t the same. 40K students each. But 100000 other things to do, and lots of pro sports.

Appy State. 21K students. TV market is technically Charlotte #21, but a play in Asheville #39, as well. Good following in the NC cities. Growing. But, like ECU, in the huge shadow of the ACC.

Liberty. Technically 95K students, but really 16K on campus. TV market is # 69, 384K, 0.35%, but that is irrelevant. The play here is they want to be the “evangelical Notre Dame”, among people of that religious view, and especially the on-line deal they have going. $1.7B endowment. $22K tuition for on-campus.

BYU. 33K students. Endowment is $2B. Tuition is a church subsidized $10K, but LDS requires tithing for life. Fastest growing city in America and fastest growing religion on earth. The “Mormon Notre Dame”. #30, 952K, 0.9%. Same pull as LU, just a bigger city, and bigger religion.

So show me the similarities between MU and the AAC members, save for ECU. A bunch of big city schools with much larger student bodies (mostly commuters) and much larger resources.

You make some good points. BYU is likely not an option for the AAC because they will not play any games on Sunday. This is hugely problematic for sports outside of football.

I don't think FAU is a candidate unless UCF or USF bolts for another conference.

SDSU and SJSU are too far out west for all of the other non revenue sports. It would be a logistical nightmare and a larger expense for those programs for very little additional benefit.

I think Liberty is a consideration but would be a challenge logistically for the non-revenue sports as well. The difference here is that Liberty would do everything they could to buy their way in, even to the point of forfeiting media revenue to offset other schools additional travel expenses.

Appy St. and UAB both make a lot of sense for the AAC I think.

I expect that UC will be gone. That actually helps Marshall's case I think, especially if WVU ends up in the AAC. It sets up rivalries with ECU, WVU and Marshall. Rivalries are one of the things that this league is sorely lacking.

I don't think the media market size is as big as it once was since most media consumption is shifting to streaming services and away from national broadcasters. Marshall does have very strong brand recognition, which could be an attractive attribute to the AAC. That said, you brought up some negatives regarding Marshall that are legit considerations. So, I think that while there's a chance for Marshall to join the AAC, for the reasons that you cited, it's a bit of a longshot.

 

[TwolfHerdfan]

You make some good points. BYU is likely not an option for the AAC because they will not play any games on Sunday. This is hugely problematic for sports outside of football.

I don't think FAU is a candidate unless UCF or USF bolts for another conference.

SDSU and SJSU are too far out west for all of the other non revenue sports. It would be a logistical nightmare and a larger expense for those programs for very little additional benefit.

I think Liberty is a consideration but would be a challenge logistically for the non-revenue sports as well. The difference here is that Liberty would do everything they could to buy their way in, even to the point of forfeiting media revenue to offset other schools additional travel expenses.

Appy St. and UAB both make a lot of sense.

I expect that UC will be gone. That actually helps Marshall's case I think, especially if WVU ends up in the AAC. It sets up rivalries with ECU, WVU and Marshall. Rivalries are one of the things that this league is sorely lacking.

I don't think the media market size is as big as it once was since most media consumption is shifting to streaming services and away from national broadcasters. Marshall does have very strong brand recognition, which could be an attractive attribute to the AAC. That said, you brought up some negatives regarding Marshall that are legit considerations. So, I think that while there's a chance for Marshall to join the AAC, for the reasons that you cited, it's a bit of a longshot.

Appy St. and UAB make a lot of sense.

It is a long shot. If they wanted us, they would have asked the first time around.
Our best and only option is to have supreme success on the field and court. Continue to strengthen our brand and see what happens.
The financial burden of moving to the AAC will be a huge strain on our already tight finances.
Not sure where people think the money will come from.

 

[Bayou Boiler]

It is a long shot. If they wanted us, they would have asked the first time around.
Our best and only option is to have supreme success on the field and court. Continue to strengthen our brand and see what happens.
The financial burden of moving to the AAC will be a huge strain on our already tight finances.
Not sure where people think the money will come from.

Most of the money would come from increased media revenue to Marshall. Just because we weren't on the short list initially doesn't mean that we were not on the expanded list for consideration at that time. I think that if they're raided by another conference, they'll have to look somewhere to replace those schools and we'll likely be thought of initially anyway, especially if they feel the need to expand from 11 football schools to 14, which they may need to do with the SEC expanding. So, if they lose UC and Houston or Memphis, which is very possible. they may have to replace 2 and add up to 3 more football schools. I know that they had also considered Boise St. in the past as well, but that would be a bit of a logistical nightmare for the non revenue sports in particular.

But I certainly agree with you that Marshall to the AAC is long shot.

 

[GoHerdMarshallYes]

I am sure we would want to move out. It’s not the desire, it’s the financial aspect. That’s likely what has stymied any statements coming from the Schewey. I am sure they are certainly more comfortable dealing with a CUSA size budget than trying to up the ante 10 Mil or so to compete in the AAC. Jmho

"They" will translate to "you."
The fans are ultimately going to need to be tapped for finances, which is the sole driver for all this.

If you're a new AD and you look at trying to increase financial support for the program, you'll see a collective of people who claim to not want to attend games because (lets leave out actual on field performance for a moment):

A hot dog vendor wasn't renewed.
The smell of beer being sold at the stadium.
Advertising during breaks in action.
Bathrooms not at the level of Hilton Hotels.
Rap music.

MU wouldn't be able to move up if they had everything except requiring an increase in ticket sales and other elements. The fans complain about literally evrything as an excuse not to spend more, but then get mad when MU isn't doing more.

 

[TwolfHerdfan]

"They" will translate to "you."
The fans are ultimately going to need to be tapped for finances, which is the sole driver for all this.

If you're a new AD and you look at trying to increase financial support for the program, you'll see a collective of people who claim to not want to attend games because (lets leave out actual on field performance for a moment):

A hot dog vendor wasn't renewed.
The smell of beer being sold at the stadium.
Advertising during breaks in action.
Bathrooms not at the level of Hilton Hotels.
Rap music.

MU wouldn't be able to move up if they had everything except requiring an increase in ticket sales and other elements. The fans complain about literally evrything as an excuse not to spend more, but then get mad when MU isn't doing more.

Marshall has and always had a core of 22K fans or so. Those who donate, attend games, buy tix and such. It's like that with every school. Every fan base complains about something, hell Ohio State fans complain, and Bama fans as well. It's the nature of the beast. To pretend that our fans are the only ones who complain is just crazy.
We'd all like a larger, more affluent fan base but you and I both know, that's not happening unless we have crazy success and/or we get an AD who is just a genius in building a fan base.

The sad and alarming thing about our base is, a majority of donors are over 50 and not getting younger. The younger fans will need to step up donations and such to keep this thing going in the next 10-15 years. I doubt they will though, too busy buying video games and playing the crypto currency market. lol!

 

[herdalicious]

In terms of moving up (even just to the AAC): Marshall is just like 95% of G5 outside of the AAC, with nothing to use to bargain, and will likely have to accept whatever reality manifests.

In terms of moving laterally (like going back to the MAC): Even this is a remote possibility, since the MAC hasn't publicly indicated that they are eager to have us back in their fold. However, it would be the best thing that could happen to Marshall in the next round of musical chairs, since it would cut out travel costs, give us road games we could travel to, and increase the level of competition we faced.

In terms of staying in C-USA: It could not possibly get worse. Even the bottom-dwellers in the other G5 leagues would have parity with 3/4ths of C-USA. I realize that Doc Holliday suddenly turned into a poor recruiter after 2014, but something else happened around about that time that may have affected the quality of player willing to come to Marshall. We are in the worst conference in football now, and the kids know it.

In terms of moving back to FCS: Probably the financially responsible thing to do, especially considering that the conference we play is comprised almost exclusively of programs that didn't exist or were FCS when Marshall moved up in 1997. Since then our AD's budget has more than tripled, and the amount of institutional subsidy required has more than quintupled, a sign that we are spending money we don't have to do something we can't afford to do. But fear not, this is never, ever going to happen, ever. Your kids will be paying $3k a year in athletics fees before Marshall would even consider this.

 

[19MU88]

If it comes to FCS I’d just as soon shut down program and invest in BBall.

 

[The Real SamC]

MU lost big $$ during the I-AA era. Since then the NCAA has been subsidizing championship out of the huge basketball deal. But the NCAA has all but been told it is irrelevant by the SCOTUS. I would rather drop the program.

The MAC’s TV deal, signed long ago before “cord cutting” and the decline of traditional “linear” TV, expires after the 26 season. There is no possibility that it gets a third of that next time. The price of pool has gone with with NIL, and lower TV $$ and some MACers (not the ones nearby) will just say “enough”. But anyway, have you caught a “maction” game? Literally 300 people at a night game on a random weeknight in late fall. Multiple weeknight games are box office poison. No thanks.

The AAC I covered. The news out of Pac 12 HQ yesterday make me even more certain that its WVU and ISU to AAC, possibly as soon as next year. We are not getting in any conference WVU is a part of. That simple.

 

[TwolfHerdfan]

MU lost big $$ during the I-AA era. Since then the NCAA has been subsidizing championship out of the huge basketball deal. But the NCAA has all but been told it is irrelevant by the SCOTUS. I would rather drop the program.

The MAC’s TV deal, signed long ago before “cord cutting” and the decline of traditional “linear” TV, expires after the 26 season. There is no possibility that it gets a third of that next time. The price of pool has gone with with NIL, and lower TV $$ and some MACers (not the ones nearby) will just say “enough”. But anyway, have you caught a “maction” game? Literally 300 people at a night game on a random weeknight in late fall. Multiple weeknight games are box office poison. No thanks.

The AAC I covered. The news out of Pac 12 HQ yesterday make me even more certain that its WVU and ISU to AAC, possibly as soon as next year. We are not getting in any conference WVU is a part of. That simple.

B12 committee meeting to discuss expansion. Not so fast my friend on the demise of the B12. They could pick up BYU, Houston, UC, Memphis - or combination thereof and be perfectly fine.

 

[The Real SamC]

B12 committee meeting to discuss expansion. Not so fast my friend on the demise of the B12. They could pick up BYU, Houston, UC, Memphis - or combination thereof and be perfectly fine.

If by “perfectly fine” you mean “be a mid-major conference”, yep.

 

[TwolfHerdfan]

If by “perfectly fine” you mean “be a mid-major conference”, yep.

They would still carry some weight as a league. Equal to the P12.
SEC and B10 really call the shots.
WVU to the AAC is wishful thinking on our fans part.

 

[The Real SamC]

Better check out the fact filled (but pay walled) analysis in The Athletic. The difference in an AAC TV rating and a non- Texas/Oklahoma TV rating over the last five years averages out to 90K people. Which is almost statistically insignificant. The “Big” 12 without Texas and Oklahoma is a mid-major, whether it adds such luminaries as Cincinnati or Memphis or not.

Whether WVU ends up in the AAC, or in a remnant “Big” 12 with multiple AAC teams, the result for MU is the same. WVU is playing in a mid-major league, while every one of our conference mates, in our current set up or any hypothetical future set up, are ALL playing in the GIANT shadow of the Big 10, SEC, ACC and/or the SEC2B. Which is a HUGE advantage for us. If you think the programs at our conference mates get 1/50th the attention statewide that we do, you have not been paying attention. And WVU’s short failed sojourn among the true majors just makes that even bigger.

 

[TwolfHerdfan]

Better check out the fact filled (but pay walled) analysis in The Athletic. The difference in an AAC TV rating and a non- Texas/Oklahoma TV rating over the last five years averages out to 90K people. Which is almost statistically insignificant. The “Big” 12 without Texas and Oklahoma is a mid-major, whether it adds such luminaries as Cincinnati or Memphis or not.

Whether WVU ends up in the AAC, or in a remnant “Big” 12 with multiple AAC teams, the result for MU is the same. WVU is playing in a mid-major league, while every one of our conference mates, in our current set up or any hypothetical future set up, are ALL playing in the GIANT shadow of the Big 10, SEC, ACC and/or the SEC2B. Which is a HUGE advantage for us. If you think the programs at our conference mates get 1/50th the attention statewide that we do, you have not been paying attention. And WVU’s short failed sojourn among the true majors just makes that even bigger.

I wouldn’t lose sleep over what WVU does.
I really don’t care.

 

[papagrande304]

MU lost big $$ during the I-AA era. Since then the NCAA has been subsidizing championship out of the huge basketball deal. But the NCAA has all but been told it is irrelevant by the SCOTUS. I would rather drop the program.

The MAC’s TV deal, signed long ago before “cord cutting” and the decline of traditional “linear” TV, expires after the 26 season. There is no possibility that it gets a third of that next time. The price of pool has gone with with NIL, and lower TV $$ and some MACers (not the ones nearby) will just say “enough”. But anyway, have you caught a “maction” game? Literally 300 people at a night game on a random weeknight in late fall. Multiple weeknight games are box office poison. No thanks.

The AAC I covered. The news out of Pac 12 HQ yesterday make me even more certain that its WVU and ISU to AAC, possibly as soon as next year. We are not getting in any conference WVU is a part of. That simple.

TRUST ME, WVU will not end up in the AAC. I understand this is just wishful thinking, but if you understand the market and business of college football, you know there is literally 0% chance of WVU dropping to the AAC.

Certainly fine to fanaticize about this happening lol, but I am just educating you on the real life practicalities.

 

[papagrande304]

I have to think there at least a somewhat realistic chance that Marshall could get invited to the AAC. Times have changes since the last realignment, and I certainly hope we are doing all that we can to set ourselves up for a possible invite.

If the AAC proves impossible, I agree with some others that the MAC would be our best bet. That would get us back on TV and provide more TV revenue. It would also make much more geographic sense. The level of play in the MAC is slightly better than USA, but not by a landslide. However, the other advantages of trying to jump up to the MAC are significant.

 

[The Real SamC]

TRUST ME, WVU will not end up in the AAC. I understand this is just wishful thinking, but if you understand the market and business of college football, you know there is literally 0% chance of WVU dropping to the AAC.

Certainly fine to fanaticize about this happening lol, but I am just educating you on the real life practicalities.

I understand sport business, and understand demographics is destiny. Which is why I understand that WVU will be either in the AAC, or a “Big” 12 made up of the leftovers and other former mid majors.

Which is good for MU marketing.

 

[GoHerdMarshallYes]

Marshall has and always had a core of 22K fans or so. Those who donate, attend games, buy tix and such. It's like that with every school. Every fan base complains about something, hell Ohio State fans complain, and Bama fans as well. It's the nature of the beast. To pretend that our fans are the only ones who complain is just crazy.
We'd all like a larger, more affluent fan base but you and I both know, that's not happening unless we have crazy success and/or we get an AD who is just a genius in building a fan base.

The sad and alarming thing about our base is, a majority of donors are over 50 and not getting younger. The younger fans will need to step up donations and such to keep this thing going in the next 10-15 years. I doubt they will though, too busy buying video games and playing the crypto currency market. lol!

That core of 22k or so dedicated fans, really can't be complaining and sadly, often compare themselves to fanbases who can complain about every little detail.
MU fans expect MU to be perfect and at the same time, unable to do much because "poor l'il ole Marshall."

As for the younger fanbases, give them some time. There are plenty of youthful MU alumni still in WV and the area, who will give to MU and have given.

 

[GoHerdMarshallYes]

I have to think there at least a somewhat realistic chance that Marshall could get invited to the AAC. Times have changes since the last realignment, and I certainly hope we are doing all that we can to set ourselves up for a possible invite.

If the AAC proves impossible, I agree with some others that the MAC would be our best bet. That would get us back on TV and provide more TV revenue. It would also make much more geographic sense. The level of play in the MAC is slightly better than USA, but not by a landslide. However, the other advantages of trying to jump up to the MAC are significant.

Like what? TV? They don't give the MAC schools very much (light years more than CUSA, yes).
In exchange for being on TV, you get the mid week slot, which kills the live gate...since WV has pretend Christians and dislike the idea of attending a MU game on Wednesday. You also, may be on TV, at the most obscure time out there, and will be bar filler.
Lets face it, being on TV and being featured on TV are two different things. If the MAC were legitimate with their situation, they'd be a powerhouse because the supposed exposure would give recruits a reason to turn down the P5 and say, "forget Saturdays, I wanna play on Tuesdays and Wednesdays!!"

 

[GoHerdMarshallYes]

B12 committee meeting to discuss expansion. Not so fast my friend on the demise of the B12. They could pick up BYU, Houston, UC, Memphis - or combination thereof and be perfectly fine.

How much of the needle does that move in the grand scheme of it all?
Big 12 was one of the lower tier P5 conferences already.
The two largest moneymakers left.

The teams you mentioned were also considered the last time Big 12 talked expansion.
Nobody got invited.

They won't make as big a splash as some may think, which will keep the Big 12 as a conference intact, but possible they lose their P5 status. At the very least, a significantly lower amount of shared revenue.

 

[GoHerdMarshallYes]

TRUST ME, WVU will not end up in the AAC. I understand this is just wishful thinking, but if you understand the market and business of college football, you know there is literally 0% chance of WVU dropping to the AAC.

Certainly fine to fanaticize about this happening lol, but I am just educating you on the real life practicalities.

I doubt whatever conference wvu ends up in, will lose its P5 status.
Funny thing is wvu would actually give the AAC some value and they could be top dog of the G5.

 

[TwolfHerdfan]

That core of 22k or so dedicated fans, really can't be complaining and sadly, often compare themselves to fanbases who can complain about every little detail.
MU fans expect MU to be perfect and at the same time, unable to do much because "poor l'il ole Marshall."

As for the younger fanbases, give them some time. There are plenty of youthful MU alumni still in WV and the area, who will give to MU and have given.

BS! The young fans won't do shit. They have very little loyalty to MU. Look at the games now, how many young fans, young families do you see? Like I said, play the video games, watch Lord of the Rings and have fun. lol!
If you are one of the younger fans and you give, big Kudos - sadly, you are in the minority.

 

[TwolfHerdfan]

I doubt whatever conference wvu ends up in, will lose its P5 status.
Funny thing is wvu would actually give the AAC some value and they could be top dog of the G5.

WVU views the AAC as far beneath them. That would the last option for them. Looks like the B12 is sticking together.

 

[ohio herd]

Why would the Big 12 dissolve. If Iowa state, wvu. k-State, TCU, Texas Tech and Baylor stick together you can bet that UC, UCF and Memphis would all 3 jump IMO

 

[TwolfHerdfan]

Why would the Big 12 dissolve. If Iowa state, wvu. k-State, Texas Tech and Baylor stick together you can bet that UC, UCF and Memphis would all 3 jump IMO

Exactly. Wishful thinking by a few.