Lack of Transparency

[herdalicious]

I wanted to respond to the conversation from the shooting thread that was locked. Josh was making some points, and we were just debating them in typical message board fashion before things went off the rails, so if I may....to continue that here....

I don't think the AD's lack of transparency lead to a 3-9 season last year. What it did do, however, was mask many of the factors that lead to it, and provide cover for the department and the coaching staff with regard to how they are conducting their jobs. That just adds to the frustration of being so bad, and makes me think 2018 could be worse and we'd have no idea until 2019. That can't be helping with season ticket sales.

But here's the hottest take of them all: Doc's slide started the day Ju'Juan Seider left to join WVU's staff. We seem to be having less success converting non-qualifiers into students, which is what this program runs on. That might be because Seider was a great talent scout, or it could just be that he was a handy guy to have around the day the kids from Muck City saw snow for the first time. For whatever reason, it seems like the talent we've brought in since his exit hasn't been as good, and our flameout rate is off-the-charts.

You can't take 15 props a year if only 5 of them make it to their scholarship, otherwise you wind up where we are - getting ready to head into the season with barely enough bonafide D-I athletes to fill a one-deep, much less a roster.

Now someone refute my points, but don't forget to personally insult my mother in the process.

 

[JudgeDD]

I wanted to respond to the conversation from the shooting thread that was locked. Josh was making some points, and we were just debating them in typical message board fashion before things went off the rails, so if I may....to continue that here....

I don't think the AD's lack of transparency lead to a 3-9 season last year. What it did do, however, was mask many of the factors that lead to it, and provide cover for the department and the coaching staff with regard to how they are conducting their jobs. That just adds to the frustration of being so bad, and makes me think 2018 could be worse and we'd have no idea until 2019. That can't be helping with season ticket sales.

But here's the hottest take of them all: Doc's slide started the day Ju'Juan Seider left to join WVU's staff. We seem to be having less success converting non-qualifiers into students, which is what this program runs on. That might be because Seider was a great talent scout, or it could just be that he was a handy guy to have around the day the kids from Muck City saw snow for the first time. For whatever reason, it seems like the talent we've brought in since his exit hasn't been as good, and our flameout rate is off-the-charts.

You can't take 15 props a year if only 5 of them make it to their scholarship, otherwise you wind up where we are - getting ready to head into the season with barely enough bonafide D-I athletes to fill a one-deep, much less a roster.

Now someone refute my points, but don't forget to personally insult my mother in the process.

Okay, I'll refute a few points. And I would never insult your mother (not after last night).

I first disagree that this roster is not D-1. I think we have a few depth issues in certain areas, but overall I really like the projected starting group, and much of the two-deep. I'm concerned about depth across the OL and the secondary.

Next, a prop costs nothing but some recruiting time. They report as students, and if they make the grade, they then join the team. It is an opportunity for academically low-achieving athletes to proved themselves as students. I'm certainly not Dick Ash, so I may be wrong here, but I don't think a prop counts on any of the numbers until/if he goes on scholarship. Is that right?

Lastly, I don't pretend to know what exactly influences ticket sales, but I agree that transparency had nothing to do with the lack of success the past season.

Props to your mother.

 

[Josh Stowers]

Doc's slide started the day Ju'Juan Seider left to join WVU's staff. We seem to be having less success converting non-qualifiers into students, which is what this program runs on. That might be because Seider was a great talent scout, or it could just be that he was a handy guy to have around the day the kids from Muck City saw snow for the first time.

This is somewhat inaccurate. Most people don't know (outside of the premium board) that Seider had his recruiting coordinator title stripped from him well before he left Marshall. Todd Hartley took over that position about 7-8 months before Seider left.

To be completely honest, I was told that Doc wasn't happy with Seider's ability to evaluate talent towards the end of his tenure at Marshall (one player in particular stands out).

 

[Chris McLaughlin]

You can't take 15 props a year if only 5 of them make it to their scholarship, otherwise you wind up where we are - getting ready to head into the season with barely enough bonafide D-I athletes to fill a one-deep, much less a roster.

Now someone refute my points, but don't forget to personally insult my mother in the process.

Your momma gots a peg leg with a kick stand; your momma, your momma, your momma, your momma.

We don't take 15 NQs/year. We took six last year and three (Jamie Herr, Sir Patrick Scott and JaQua Daniels) didn't make it. That's as low of a percentage as I can ever remember and isn't ideal.

That said, most of the recent roster departures haven't been NQs. Brandon Rogers, Michael Clark, Fredrice Binot, Antavis Rowe, Tiquan Lang - all full qualifiers when they came to MU.

The real issue has been with kids never making it to Huntington at all. The 2014 & 2015 classes are/were mess in that regard:

Hakeem Bailey
Larry Dunnon
Keivonte Gallmon
Roosevelt Lawrence
LaTrell Neives
Reggie Rogers
Alex Cason
Demetrius Johnson
Maurice Hall
Quintavious Kinght
Brandon Mitchell
Reese Wooten

That's 13 recruits (many of who were highly recruited) who never even stepped foot in Huntington. 13 kids who would be in the Rs-Soph to Senior classes right now.

That has to stop.

 

[Sean Hammond]

A few of my opinions...

1) The recruitment of non-qualifiers gets far too much of the blame for what our roster looks like. We've lost a lot of talent over the past 2-3 years from players, no matter what academic standing they had coming into Marshall, who never played a down as a senior. I think that has a little bit to do with some lazy recruiting (not getting to know the player) and A LOT of bad luck.

2) When we've lost guys like Hartley, Furrey, Brown, Parker, and Peterson...and even Scott Sinclair (S/C Coach), I think we've replaced them with trash. As someone who does some writing for this site, I probably shouldn't say that about the current coaching staff, but I've not seen much development from the guys who we currently have...and I'll continue to believe that until I see something different. Our defense has mostly remained consistent since we've hired Chuck Heater, but the position coaches on defense has largely stayed the same too. Bill Legg gets a lot of heat about the offense (and some of it is deserved), but when you look at the coaches who have moved on to bigger programs, it's mostly been the guys on offense...and I think their replacements suck.



--*I will be the happiest guy on this board if my 2nd point is proven wrong this year.

 

[TwolfHerdfan]

Your momma gots a peg leg with a kick stand; your momma, your momma, your momma, your momma.

We don't take 15 NQs/year. We took six last year and three (Jamie Herr, Sir Patrick Scott and JaQua Daniels) didn't make it. That's as low of a percentage as I can ever remember and isn't ideal.

Most of the recent roster departures haven't been NQs. Brandon Rogers, Michael Clark, Fredrice Binot, Antavis Rowe, Tiquan Lang - all full qualifiers when they came to MU.

The real issue has been with kids never making it to Huntington at all. The 2014 & 2015 classes are/were mess in that regard:

Hakeem Bailey
Larry Dunnon
Keivonte Gallmon
Roosevelt Lawrence
LaTrell Neives
Reggie Rogers
Alex Cason
Demetrius Johnson
Maurice Hall
Quintavious Kinght
Brandon Mitchell
Reese Wooten

That's 13 recruits (many of who were highly recruited) who never even stepped foot in Huntington. 13 kids who would be in the Rs-Soph to Senior classes right now.

That has to stop.

What are the reasons behind them never stepping foot on campus? Honestly, I don't keep up with it all like some do. Just curious.

 

[TwolfHerdfan]

A few of my opinions...

1) The recruitment of non-qualifiers gets far too much of the blame for what our roster looks like. We've lost a lot of talent over the past 2-3 years from players, no matter what academic standing they had coming into Marshall, who never played a down as a senior. I think that has a little bit to do with some lazy recruiting (not getting to know the player) and A LOT of bad luck.

2) When we've lost guys like Hartley, Furrey, Brown, Parker, and Peterson...and even Scott Sinclair (S/C Coach), I think we've replaced them with trash. As someone who does some writing for this site, I probably shouldn't say that about the current coaching staff, but I've not seen much development from the guys who we currently have...and I'll continue to believe that until I see something different. Our defense has mostly remained consistent since we've hired Chuck Heater, but the position coaches on defense has largely stayed the same too. Bill Legg gets a lot of heat about the offense (and some of it is deserved), but when you look at the coaches who have moved on to bigger programs, it's mostly been the guys on offense...and I think their replacements suck.



--*I will be the happiest guy on this board if my 2nd point is proven wrong this year.

Do you attribute this to Doc not having good connections and hiring buddies or our lack of pay? Both?

 

[Chris McLaughlin]

Do you attribute this to Doc not having good connections and hiring buddies or our lack of pay? Both?

Variety of reasons but most had grades so terrible they couldn't get admitted to MU. Others weren't willing to prop and/or line up the proper financial aid.

 

[TwolfHerdfan]

Variety of reasons but most had grades so terrible they couldn't get admitted to MU. Others weren't willing to prop and/or line up the proper financial aid.

Then a follow up would be -

Should Doc and staff do a better job of evaluating these kids and not waste time?

 

[sluggo72]

This is somewhat inaccurate. Most people don't know (outside of the premium board) that Seider had his recruiting coordinator title stripped from him well before he left Marshall. Todd Hartley took over that position about 7-8 months before Seider left.

To be completely honest, I was told that Doc wasn't happy with Seider's ability to evaluate talent towards the end of his tenure at Marshall (one player in particular stands out).

the only thing the 'recruiting coordinator' does is make sure everybody has enough tickets to the games, and meal afterwards. The HC is the guy who gives out the scholarships. The assistant coaches are the guys who find the guys for the HC to give the scholarships to. The RC is a pia job for any assistant, you are much better off being the liaison with the equipment room guys.

 

[Chris McLaughlin]

Then a follow up would be -

Should Doc and staff do a better job of evaluating these kids and not waste time?

It's a fair question.

 

[Josh Stowers]

the only thing the 'recruiting coordinator' does is make sure everybody has enough tickets to the games, and meal afterwards. The HC is the guy who gives out the scholarships. The assistant coaches are the guys who find the guys for the HC to give the scholarships to. The RC is a pia job for any assistant, you are much better off being the liaison with the equipment room guys.

Ehhh, maybe in some scenarios but not under Doc. Believe me, he puts a tremendous amount of emphasis and demand on what the RC does.

 

[Y.A.G Si Ye Nots]

the only thing the 'recruiting coordinator' does is make sure everybody has enough tickets to the games, and meal afterwards. The HC is the guy who gives out the scholarships. The assistant coaches are the guys who find the guys for the HC to give the scholarships to. The RC is a pia job for any assistant, you are much better off being the liaison with the equipment room guys.

I have no idea how it is at Marshall. Your generalization of the role isn't very accurate. Some staffs have the "recruiting coordinator" not really doing anything other than what you claimed. Other staffs rely on the recruiting coordinator to do a ton of extra work; planning every single recruiting relating activity. On those staffs, that coach spends more time dealing with recruiting than even coaching his own position.

If head coaches made better hires in their off-field positions, it would greatly help their programs and take away a lot of that extra work.

 

[herdalicious]

1) I count non-qualifiers who never make it to campus as non-qualifiers who didn't pan out. Doc's stated goal when he arrived was to have 15-25 on campus, year-in and year-out. (For evidence of how that system works out, see State, Boise) The low number of props taken in the last class is probably due more to the fact that we can't handle another class like the last two.

2) The discussion in his thread has been extremely civil, and centers more on our various respective opinions and takes on Marshall athletics than on the other posters themselves. This is what makes for a good message board.

 

[Y.A.G Si Ye Nots]

LOL! I love how eerbillys will come post on our board , blame our coach for ignorant eerbilly football collapses

Who in this thread is a wvu fan?

Indeed, your running down a Marshall coach with 4 bowl wins A cusa championship and 3 straight 10 win seasons, and the strange collapse of last year is what you base everything upon.

Who in this thread is running down a Marshall coach?

Yet we look at your coach your program and we see a stadium with continual declining attendance,
!

wvu averaged 57,583 fans at their games in the 'hole last season. That was about a 3000/game increase over the previous year. You do realize what "declining" means, right?

Go away idiot, quit running down our program and worry about your own fraidy cat team and AD!

Who are you talking to, and again, who do you think is a wvu fan in this thread?

This board has a lot of divisive opinions and personalities. I think I can speak for all by thanking you for bringing all of us together in believing that you're a moron who makes Marshall fans look stupid.

 

[sistersville]

LOL! I love how eerbillys will come post on our board , blame our coach for ignorant eerbilly football collapses while rich rod was changing his recruiting to his spread run style which he made successful in time, but left because your school was too stupid to keep him.

Indeed, your running down a Marshall coach with 4 bowl wins A cusa championship and 3 straight 10 win seasons, and the strange collapse of last year is what you base everything upon.

Yet we look at your coach your program and we see a stadium with continual declining attendance, a coach that can't figure out his school colors but wants to wear black to look cool yet lives with his hands on his crotch 80% of the game. Worse off your opinions are posted on a board of a school your flat our AFRAID to play home and home!

Go away idiot, quit running down our program and worry about your own fraidy cat team and AD!

I hear there running a dual product sale on Midol and eerbilly yellow Ts at Walmart on the 4th up there, maybe a good use of your time to stock up early for the bottom pounding your fraidy cats are gonna take this season!
WV has nothing to do with the herd getting back their swagger
They are 12-0 against us so dont mention WV unless you are wanting to play them again
OUT!
Sincerely,
TGE!

 

[JudgeDD]

LOL! I love how eerbillys will come post on our board , blame our coach for ignorant eerbilly football collapses while rich rod was changing his recruiting to his spread run style which he made successful in time, but left because your school was too stupid to keep him.

Indeed, your running down a Marshall coach with 4 bowl wins A cusa championship and 3 straight 10 win seasons, and the strange collapse of last year is what you base everything upon.

Yet we look at your coach your program and we see a stadium with continual declining attendance, a coach that can't figure out his school colors but wants to wear black to look cool yet lives with his hands on his crotch 80% of the game. Worse off your opinions are posted on a board of a school your flat our AFRAID to play home and home!

Go away idiot, quit running down our program and worry about your own fraidy cat team and AD!

I hear there running a dual product sale on Midol and eerbilly yellow Ts at Walmart on the 4th up there, maybe a good use of your time to stock up early for the bottom pounding your fraidy cats are gonna take this season!

OUT!
Sincerely,
TGE!

Seriously, can this shit just stop? I try to avoid the petty kidnapping of posts around here, but it's getting to be like Huntington's random shootings: even innocent bystanders can get caught in the crossfire. Yeah, I know people will say that I was asking for it - cruising around sports' forums on a Saturday afternoon - but it seems that there is no place/post that is safe. Though I am occasionally put off by Y.A.G.'s posts as well, this one was fairly innocuous. Your response was completely uncalled for.

To everyone, please: Criticize opinions all you want. Dispute predictions. Offer counter-thoughts. I love a good debate. I wouldn't even belong here if everyone agreed all the time. That would be boring. But can we stop the name-calling and personal attacks? (If I read "eerbilly" one more time I'm going to scream...again!)

And Greenhouse: I am far from the Grammar Nazi around here, but if you're going to call someone a stupid errbilly, you really need to clean up the your/you're, they're/their/there mishaps in your posts. Glass houses and all...

I'm not threatening my leaving this site through any over-valuing of my presence here. I have no doubts that this place would move along fine without me. But I have a feeling I am speaking for others as well. I value the information I get here. I enjoy reading most of the posts/threads. I respect the administrators and moderators and contributors, and all the work they do. And I'd like to stay. But these "random shootings" are happening all too often, and if it doesn't settle down soon, I will just opt to spend my time and money elsewhere.

 

[Y.A.G Si Ye Nots]

Though I am occasionally put off by Y.A.G.'s posts as well, this one was fairly innocuous.
.

What are your thoughts on that C.K. Ocsevol Evad guy? I think he is a genius and a necessary addition to the board.

 

[herdalicious]

Poop emoji.

 

[AllEers6]

LOL! I love how eerbillys will come post on our board , blame our coach for ignorant eerbilly football collapses while rich rod was changing his recruiting to his spread run style which he made successful in time, but left because your school was too stupid to keep him.

Indeed, your running down a Marshall coach with 4 bowl wins A cusa championship and 3 straight 10 win seasons, and the strange collapse of last year is what you base everything upon.

Yet we look at your coach your program and we see a stadium with continual declining attendance, a coach that can't figure out his school colors but wants to wear black to look cool yet lives with his hands on his crotch 80% of the game. Worse off your opinions are posted on a board of a school your flat our AFRAID to play home and home!

Go away idiot, quit running down our program and worry about your own fraidy cat team and AD!

I hear there running a dual product sale on Midol and eerbilly yellow Ts at Walmart on the 4th up there, maybe a good use of your time to stock up early for the bottom pounding your fraidy cats are gonna take this season!

OUT!I
Sincerely,
TGE!

Thanks, because of you I don't see my post. If it must be known my wife is a Marshall grad and I have two degrees, one from WVU and one from Marshall. I come down to at least one game a year with friends and family so just because im a member at the wvu site does not mean I hate on Marshall. So thanks mod!

Do one more time! Doc got recruiting wrong the last three years and some of those issues continue because Doc takes talent over attitude.

 

[beefcake0520]

My opinion is, as far as coaching and recruiting, Hartly (spelling?) was our biggest loss in the coaching ranks. As far as the constant moan and groan about the demise last season, what caused it etc etc, how pessimistic some are for this season, I really hope that ole Phil Steele is on que. We had enough negativity to last us a decade during the Snyder years, and rightfully so, and its amazing how much the fan base turned over one season. None of us should like what happened last year but I'm still willing to believe in doc. You guys think he was happy about last year, or think he doesnt see the gaps in positions that need to be filled? His off season has been more stringent than ever. The want and agitation from last year is obvious. Will be interesting this year.

 

[C.K. Ocsevol-Evad]

His off season has been more stringent than ever.

.

In what way?

Off the field issues continue. He made a hire of one of the biggest cheaters in college football over the last decade, only to see him skip town days later. He then hired a coach with no FBS or FCS coaching experience and very little overall coaching experience. He then recently made a similarly inexperienced off-field hire.

Are there restrictions this year on how much heroin can be sold before getting kicked off?

 

[Josh Stowers]

Are there restrictions this year on how much heroin can be sold before getting kicked off?

Well, no one affiliated with the program has sold heroin so it would be difficult to be kicked off for doing so.

 

[C.K. Ocsevol-Evad]

Well, no one affiliated with the program has sold heroin so it would be difficult to be kicked off for doing so.

Oh, he was only charged with conspiring to sell heroin, not actually selling it.

To most people, the intent is all that matters.

 

[Josh Stowers]

Oh, he was only charged with conspiring to sell heroin, not actually selling it.

To most people, the intent is all that matters.

Where did you see that he was charged?

 

[Y.A.G Si Ye Nots]

Where did you see that he was charged?

The Department of Justice website states that "Tiquan Lang entered his guilty plea to conspiracy to distribute heroin." It further states "Lang admitted he participated in the conspiracy in early 2015. On multiple occasions, Lang received and distributed heroin when directed . . . during the search [of Lang's apartment], agents seized two firearms, and Lang admitted his participation in the conspiracy to law enforcement."

He faces up to 20 years and is scheduled to be sentenced on August 14, 2017.

So, to summarize . . . Lang's apartment was raided by the FBI on February 4th, 2015. At that time, two guns were seized and Lang admitted to the FBI his role in the conspiracy to sell heroin. Seven months later, Lang makes 17 tackles, has two INTs, and scores two TDs for Marshall in their win over Purdue. Seven months after that, Lang is arrested for a weapons charge and DUI. Four months after that, Lang is finally dismissed from the team.

Now, I don't have a J.D., but it seems a little odd for a person to plead guilty in a federal court to an offense they weren't charged with.

So, again I ask, is Doc more stringent this season in lowering the amount of heroin the players are allowed to sell to still be allowed to play against Big 10 opponents? Is he more stringent in enforcing the unbreakable, no tolerance rules about guns as long as they 1) are used for selling heroin 2) you get caught with them three times or more?

https://www.justice.gov/usao-sdwv/pr/two-men-plead-guilty-federal-heroin-conspiracy

 

[Josh Stowers]

The Department of Justice website states that "Tiquan Lang entered his guilty plea to conspiracy to distribute heroin." It further states "Lang admitted he participated in the conspiracy in early 2015. On multiple occasions, Lang received and distributed heroin when directed . . . during the search [of Lang's apartment], agents seized two firearms, and Lang admitted his participation in the conspiracy to law enforcement."

He faces up to 20 years and is scheduled to be sentenced on August 14, 2017.

So, to summarize . . . Lang's apartment was raided by the FBI on February 4th, 2015. At that time, two guns were seized and Lang admitted to the FBI his role in the conspiracy to sell heroin. Seven months later, Lang makes 17 tackles, has two INTs, and scores two TDs for Marshall in their win over Purdue. Seven months after that, Lang is arrested for a weapons charge and DUI. Four months after that, Lang is finally dismissed from the team.

Now, I don't have a J.D., but it seems a little odd for a person to plead guilty in a federal court to an offense they weren't charged with.

So, again I ask, is Doc more stringent this season in lowering the amount of heroin the players are allowed to sell to still be allowed to play against Big 10 opponents? Is he more stringent in enforcing the unbreakable, no tolerance rules about guns as long as they 1) are used for selling heroin 2) you get caught with them three times or more?

https://www.justice.gov/usao-sdwv/pr/two-men-plead-guilty-federal-heroin-conspiracy

I thought we were talking the current roster. My bad.

 

[Y.A.G Si Ye Nots]

I thought we were talking the current roster. My bad.

No problem. But as the spokesperson, can you assist with my question? Is the more stringent Doc now limiting the amount of heroin that can be sold while still getting to play against Big 10 opponents? Is the more stringent version enforcing the "no tolerance" gun rule after a third violation of it by the same player? I am trying to understand this change in philosophy.

 

[TwolfHerdfan]

Some on this board take this stuff way too seriously. Greenhouse, relax man. It's gonna be OK.

 

[ToesMU]

Someone is just butthurt because neither Doc nor Hamrick will take his phone calls.

 

[19MU88]

Someone is just butthurt because neither Doc nor Hamrick will take their phone calls.

oh no you didn't.....

 

[Dreh_Nagi_HC_IM]

oh no you didn't.....

Officially in, before locked.

 

[AllEers6]

In what way?

Off the field issues continue. He made a hire of one of the biggest cheaters in college football over the last decade, only to see him skip town days later. He then hired a coach with no FBS or FCS coaching experience and very little overall coaching experience. He then recently made a similarly inexperienced off-field hire.

Are there restrictions this year on how much heroin can be sold before getting kicked off?

what was the coaches name that had no experience?

 

[pdbailey]

I wanted to respond to the conversation from the shooting thread that was locked. Josh was making some points, and we were just debating them in typical message board fashion before things went off the rails, so if I may....to continue that here....

I don't think the AD's lack of transparency lead to a 3-9 season last year. What it did do, however, was mask many of the factors that lead to it, and provide cover for the department and the coaching staff with regard to how they are conducting their jobs. That just adds to the frustration of being so bad, and makes me think 2018 could be worse and we'd have no idea until 2019. That can't be helping with season ticket sales.

But here's the hottest take of them all: Doc's slide started the day Ju'Juan Seider left to join WVU's staff. We seem to be having less success converting non-qualifiers into students, which is what this program runs on. That might be because Seider was a great talent scout, or it could just be that he was a handy guy to have around the day the kids from Muck City saw snow for the first time. For whatever reason, it seems like the talent we've brought in since his exit hasn't been as good, and our flameout rate is off-the-charts.

You can't take 15 props a year if only 5 of them make it to their scholarship, otherwise you wind up where we are - getting ready to head into the season with barely enough bonafide D-I athletes to fill a one-deep, much less a roster.

Now someone refute my points, but don't forget to personally insult my mother in the process.

I'm not going to insult you or your mother, but Seider wasn't all that great at MU and the Recruiting Coordinator job was handed over to Hartley a couple of months before he left due to issues. Seider did bring a few key players into the program, notably Cato and Shuler, but his overall recruiting lead to an insane attrition level in the 2010-2013 recruiting classes. I have done a ton of research and analysis on the recruiting classes from 2010 to present, and his numbers were terrible overall outside of the heralded 2011 recruiting class that is directly responsible for the successes of 2013-2015. Overall, Seider was the lead recruiter for 34 recruits in the 2010-2013 recruiting classes, and of those recruits, only 12 completed their eligibility at MU or are currently on the roster. In other words, his Retention Rate was only 38.7% (12 of 31) for enrolled recruits. He also had 3 recruits not enroll, but that isn't bad. The big problem is that 9 of 31 recruits were dismissed from the program, 29% is a big bad number, and his recruits only had a central mean of 2.80 years in the program. Even worse, he had 21 composite 3-star plus recruits in his classes and only 7 (33.3%) completed their eligibility at MU or are currently on the roster.

As for the "Prop" comment, we have only taken 46 props in the 2010-2016 recruiting classes for an average of about 6.5 per year, and we will likely have about the same number this year once the season starts. The funny thing is that the Retention Rate among "Prop" recruits (54.35%) is about the same as all other recruits so it is misleading to state that we take too many and they don't contribute. 2016 sucked because we lost 11 5th year SRs from the 2015 team that were in the 2011 recruiting class, and ended up losing 39 scholarship players from the 2015 team overall due to the completion of eligibility, transfers, and a few dismissals. In 2016, we really did have a team missing experienced depth, but that issue should be different in 2017, thanks to the experience gained by the young players in 2016 and an influx of a lot of talent from the 2016 and 2017 recruiting classes.

 

[pdbailey]

I have no idea how it is at Marshall. Your generalization of the role isn't very accurate. Some staffs have the "recruiting coordinator" not really doing anything other than what you claimed. Other staffs rely on the recruiting coordinator to do a ton of extra work; planning every single recruiting relating activity. On those staffs, that coach spends more time dealing with recruiting than even coaching his own position.

If head coaches made better hires in their off-field positions, it would greatly help their programs and take away a lot of that extra work.

This is why Treier could be a very good hire as Dunn's replacement.

 

[pdbailey]

1) I count non-qualifiers who never make it to campus as non-qualifiers who didn't pan out. Doc's stated goal when he arrived was to have 15-25 on campus, year-in and year-out. (For evidence of how that system works out, see State, Boise) The low number of props taken in the last class is probably due more to the fact that we can't handle another class like the last two.

2) The discussion in his thread has been extremely civil, and centers more on our various respective opinions and takes on Marshall athletics than on the other posters themselves. This is what makes for a good message board.

A "Prop" is an enrolled non-qualifier so recruits that do not enroll do not meet the definition of a prop. Please note that not all recruits that did not enroll were NQs. Some recruits didn't come because they decided they didn't want to, a couple of recruits suffered career endings injuries in HS, and some we told we didn't want them to come due to off-field stuff that happened after they signed. The key is that we usually replaced these recruits with other recruits. There's a reason some classes had 30+ recruits in the class, some came in as replacements for lost recruits that did not enroll. I'm not saying that its a good thing, I'm just saying they do not meet the definition of a "Prop".

 

[pdbailey]

In what way?

Off the field issues continue. He made a hire of one of the biggest cheaters in college football over the last decade, only to see him skip town days later. He then hired a coach with no FBS or FCS coaching experience and very little overall coaching experience. He then recently made a similarly inexperienced off-field hire.

Are there restrictions this year on how much heroin can be sold before getting kicked off?

Actually, Baker has the potential to be a good coach, and he is young enough to relate to the recruits, and played in the NFL. As for the heroine jab, that was one player that got involved with organized crime, and he was only 1 of 100+ players in the program.

 

[pdbailey]

No problem. But as the spokesperson, can you assist with my question? Is the more stringent Doc now limiting the amount of heroin that can be sold while still getting to play against Big 10 opponents? Is the more stringent version enforcing the "no tolerance" gun rule after a third violation of it by the same player? I am trying to understand this change in philosophy.

STFU, you are making everyone on the team out to be thug criminals, and that's straight horseshit. I'll be honest, you bring nothing to the board and only seem to be here to start trouble.

 

[beefcake0520]

Pretty much pd, dude only wants to instigate crap. Good analysis on recruiting btw, spot on.

 

[mlblack16.]

STFU, you are making everyone on the team out to be thug criminals, and that's straight horseshit. I'll be honest, you bring nothing to the board and only seem to be here to start trouble.

Have you not caught on by now that Rifle just loves to argue/debate? Many on here get so p*ssed, but he's usually stating facts. BTW, he's definitely not a WVu fan, but he does realize it's okay to admit they are doing better than what most Marshall fans want to give them credit for.