Let me address attendance

[Bankerreturns]

I believe attendance has become pathetic and that most would agree. The question is why. It's not a single thing, I'm sure, but I believe the biggest thing is that the games just aren't as exciting as they used to be, win or lose.

People often quote the saying "defense wins championships", but they leave out the part that says, "but offense sells tickets". This isn't a post to bash Legg and Doc, there's enough of those and frankly I think the crowd supporting them at this point is small. My point is that Marshall fans, due to most of them cutting their teeth of early fandom with guys like Pennington and Leftwich at QB, like a certain kind of football. I would venture to say if I asked which season did you enjoy more, 2012 or 2017, most would say 2012 for a couple of reasons. First, the offense was just fun to watch and second you could see with that style and those young players that we were on an upswing. We went 5-7 that year and are 7-3 so far this year, but I would venture that more people were having fun in 2012.

I took the time to look at some offensive numbers for the past several seasons. The results are below:

Year - total off rank - plays per game - yards per game - yards per play
2017 - 82nd - 72 - 383 - 5.34
2016 - 114th - 67 - 350 - 5.04
2015 - 64th - 74 - 400 - 5.38
2014 - 2nd - 74 - 559 - 7.59
2013 - 12th - 78 - 500 - 6.41
2012 - 6th - 91 - 534 - 5.90
2011 - 102nd - 65 - 333 - 5.08
2010 - 103rd - 64 - 314 - 4.92
2009 - 81st - 67 - 350 - 5.19
2008 - 86th - 64 - 330 - 5.12

Given the numbers above, I believe fans, consciously or subconsciously, just don't have any hope. There is no difference offensively between Snyder's last two years and the last two years of the current coaches. It also shows what our staff really is because the numbers pre Cato and post Cato are very similar

 

[herdfan1999]

Can you add a column for avg attendance so we can see that relationship?

 

[TwolfHerdfan]

I believe attendance has become pathetic and that most would agree. The question is why. It's not a single thing, I'm sure, but I believe the biggest thing is that the games just aren't as exciting as they used to be, win or lose.

People often quote the saying "defense wins championships", but they leave out the part that says, "but offense sells tickets". This isn't a post to bash Legg and Doc, there's enough of those and frankly I think the crowd supporting them at this point is small. My point is that Marshall fans, due to most of them cutting their teeth of early fandom with guys like Pennington and Leftwich at QB, like a certain kind of football. I would venture to say if I asked which season did you enjoy more, 2012 or 2017, most would say 2012 for a couple of reasons. First, the offense was just fun to watch and second you could see with that style and those young players that we were on an upswing. We went 5-7 that year and are 7-3 so far this year, but I would venture that more people were having fun in 2012.

I took the time to look at some offensive numbers for the past several seasons. The results are below:

Year - total off rank - plays per game - yards per game - yards per play
2017 - 82nd - 72 - 383 - 5.34
2016 - 114th - 67 - 350 - 5.04
2015 - 64th - 74 - 400 - 5.38
2014 - 2nd - 74 - 559 - 7.59
2013 - 12th - 78 - 500 - 6.41
2012 - 6th - 91 - 534 - 5.90
2011 - 102nd - 65 - 333 - 5.08
2010 - 103rd - 64 - 314 - 4.92
2009 - 81st - 67 - 350 - 5.19
2008 - 86th - 64 - 330 - 5.12

Given the numbers above, I believe fans, consciously or subconsciously, just don't have any hope. There is no difference offensively between Snyder's last two years and the last two years of the current coaches. It also shows what our staff really is because the numbers pre Cato and post Cato are very similar

I would also add that Hamricks indifference to the fan base, his tweets from last year (or those from the AD) and the way the re-seating policy was handled, additionally turned off more fans than we care to admit.

Considering both instances i mentioned happened within the last two years and we had the 3-9 debacle as well, you have a recipe for disaster on attendance. Jmo.

 

[MU1st]

Just my opinion, but I think what generates excitement is the hope of representing the G5 in a New Years six bowl, the hope of winning a conference championship, and the hope of going to a bowl game and winning. With two out of three of those dreams gone now for this year a lot of the excitement is gone for this year.

 

[All4TheHerd]

I believe attendance has become pathetic and that most would agree. The question is why. It's not a single thing, I'm sure, but I believe the biggest thing is that the games just aren't as exciting as they used to be, win or lose.

People often quote the saying "defense wins championships", but they leave out the part that says, "but offense sells tickets". This isn't a post to bash Legg and Doc, there's enough of those and frankly I think the crowd supporting them at this point is small. My point is that Marshall fans, due to most of them cutting their teeth of early fandom with guys like Pennington and Leftwich at QB, like a certain kind of football. I would venture to say if I asked which season did you enjoy more, 2012 or 2017, most would say 2012 for a couple of reasons. First, the offense was just fun to watch and second you could see with that style and those young players that we were on an upswing. We went 5-7 that year and are 7-3 so far this year, but I would venture that more people were having fun in 2012.

I took the time to look at some offensive numbers for the past several seasons. The results are below:

Year - total off rank - plays per game - yards per game - yards per play
2017 - 82nd - 72 - 383 - 5.34
2016 - 114th - 67 - 350 - 5.04
2015 - 64th - 74 - 400 - 5.38
2014 - 2nd - 74 - 559 - 7.59
2013 - 12th - 78 - 500 - 6.41
2012 - 6th - 91 - 534 - 5.90
2011 - 102nd - 65 - 333 - 5.08
2010 - 103rd - 64 - 314 - 4.92
2009 - 81st - 67 - 350 - 5.19
2008 - 86th - 64 - 330 - 5.12

Given the numbers above, I believe fans, consciously or subconsciously, just don't have any hope. There is no difference offensively between Snyder's last two years and the last two years of the current coaches. It also shows what our staff really is because the numbers pre Cato and post Cato are very similar

Again, relates to what I said...
Get out of 1999.
I get it, it set the standard for an almost complete team for our level.
Times and players change and there have been moments where this team's offense really looked like a thing of beauty.

I guess we need to get Cirque de Solei to accompany the team for games to add atmosphere.

 

[Bankerreturns]

Why would anyone "want to get out of 1999"? That year showed exactly what the potential of our football program is, so the only people who want out of that are the ones who don't want to do the things necessary to bring about more of that level of success.

Let me ask you this since you believe I am wrong, what things are preventing us from competing for and winning championships like we did annually from 1997 to 2002 along with all the I-AA success we had before that?

Is it facilities? I would say no. Compared to our conference mates we have superior, or at least equal, facilities to all of them. Since the time "we should move past" we have added a new weight training facility, new, state of the art, IPF, remodeled Shewey and locker rooms. In other words, our facilities are much better, we have a lot more bling to attract players than we did 15 years ago.

Is it fan support and donations? I would say no. We have consistently been at, or near, the top of football attendance in CUSA 3.0. We rank 2nd in the conference in what I refer to as fan financial support, the amount collected by the AD through ticket sales and donations. Only ODU is higher and we are well above nearly everyone else, schools like WKU and Middle aren't even close. Oh, and that doesn't even factor in things like the Vision Campaign which was a Marshall Foundation, not a Big Green, project. So those tens of millions aren't in the donation totals.

Is it our competition? I would say no. If you look at conference Sagarin ratings for every year from 1997 to 2017 you will find that the collection of current teams in CUSA are the weakest collection of conference mates we have ever had. Heck, many teams in this conference didn't even have a program in 1997.

So, if the facilities are fine and the fan support outpaces all but one of our conference mates and our conference is verifiable the weakest we have played in during our time in FBS, what is holding us back? What is the reason we should not think we can be as successful as we were from 1990 to 2004?

 

[Stone_Cold]

Why would anyone "want to get out of 1999"? That year showed exactly what the potential of our football program is, so the only people who want out of that are the ones who don't want to do the things necessary to bring about more of that level of success.

Let me ask you this since you believe I am wrong, what things are preventing us from competing for and winning championships like we did annually from 1997 to 2002 along with all the I-AA success we had before that?

Is it facilities? I would say no. Compared to our conference mates we have superior, or at least equal, facilities to all of them. Since the time "we should move past" we have added a new weight training facility, new, state of the art, IPF, remodeled Shewey and locker rooms. In other words, our facilities are much better, we have a lot more bling to attract players than we did 15 years ago.

Is it fan support and donations? I would say no. We have consistently been at, or near, the top of football attendance in CUSA 3.0. We rank 2nd in the conference in what I refer to as fan financial support, the amount collected by the AD through ticket sales and donations. Only ODU is higher and we are well above nearly everyone else, schools like WKU and Middle aren't even close. Oh, and that doesn't even factor in things like the Vision Campaign which was a Marshall Foundation, not a Big Green, project. So those tens of millions aren't in the donation totals.

Is it our competition? I would say no. If you look at conference Sagarin ratings for every year from 1997 to 2017 you will find that the collection of current teams in CUSA are the weakest collection of conference mates we have ever had. Heck, many teams in this conference didn't even have a program in 1997.

So, if the facilities are fine and the fan support outpaces all but one of our conference mates and our conference is verifiable the weakest we have played in during our time in FBS, what is holding us back? What is the reason we should not think we can be as successful as we were from 1990 to 2004?

I find this all very interesting as I just attended an analytics forum and one of the presenters was the evp of marketing for the Altanta Hawks who addressed the hawks attendance woes and everything they did to address it.

They discovered tthey were marketing to the wrong demographics who had the discretionary income to attend games in person. They were way off on who they were targeting. Then they had to figure out how to get the folks there in person versus just watching on TV. And they did a blind analysis of all message boards, blogs, etc to find out why versus doing a survey which could skew the results. If I can obtain his presentation, I'll see if anyone wants to view it.

But even their simple assumptions were way off. But one of the items they were way off on were that fans didn't find the team very personable and relatable. Like the days of tree, spud and Dominique.

From the blind analysis they also found that the #2 reason fans were pissed at the hawks was due to trading Dominique. Happened 20 years earlier and nobody in the org was still there. So they addressed it and got him back involved with the organization more.

Other things they did was target their new demographics on tinder, Twitter, etc. And they embraced the hip hop culture that their customer fit into.

The turnaround in season ticket sales and attendance was amazing. His final comment,get the young and old will follow.

 

[AllEers6]

I believe attendance has become pathetic and that most would agree. The question is why. It's not a single thing, I'm sure, but I believe the biggest thing is that the games just aren't as exciting as they used to be, win or lose.

People often quote the saying "defense wins championships", but they leave out the part that says, "but offense sells tickets". This isn't a post to bash Legg and Doc, there's enough of those and frankly I think the crowd supporting them at this point is small. My point is that Marshall fans, due to most of them cutting their teeth of early fandom with guys like Pennington and Leftwich at QB, like a certain kind of football. I would venture to say if I asked which season did you enjoy more, 2012 or 2017, most would say 2012 for a couple of reasons. First, the offense was just fun to watch and second you could see with that style and those young players that we were on an upswing. We went 5-7 that year and are 7-3 so far this year, but I would venture that more people were having fun in 2012.

I took the time to look at some offensive numbers for the past several seasons. The results are below:

Year - total off rank - plays per game - yards per game - yards per play
2017 - 82nd - 72 - 383 - 5.34
2016 - 114th - 67 - 350 - 5.04
2015 - 64th - 74 - 400 - 5.38
2014 - 2nd - 74 - 559 - 7.59
2013 - 12th - 78 - 500 - 6.41
2012 - 6th - 91 - 534 - 5.90
2011 - 102nd - 65 - 333 - 5.08
2010 - 103rd - 64 - 314 - 4.92
2009 - 81st - 67 - 350 - 5.19
2008 - 86th - 64 - 330 - 5.12

Given the numbers above, I believe fans, consciously or subconsciously, just don't have any hope. There is no difference offensively between Snyder's last two years and the last two years of the current coaches. It also shows what our staff really is because the numbers pre Cato and post Cato are very similar

How about recruiting more local kids?

 

[TwolfHerdfan]

Why would anyone "want to get out of 1999"? That year showed exactly what the potential of our football program is, so the only people who want out of that are the ones who don't want to do the things necessary to bring about more of that level of success.

Let me ask you this since you believe I am wrong, what things are preventing us from competing for and winning championships like we did annually from 1997 to 2002 along with all the I-AA success we had before that?

Is it facilities? I would say no. Compared to our conference mates we have superior, or at least equal, facilities to all of them. Since the time "we should move past" we have added a new weight training facility, new, state of the art, IPF, remodeled Shewey and locker rooms. In other words, our facilities are much better, we have a lot more bling to attract players than we did 15 years ago.

Is it fan support and donations? I would say no. We have consistently been at, or near, the top of football attendance in CUSA 3.0. We rank 2nd in the conference in what I refer to as fan financial support, the amount collected by the AD through ticket sales and donations. Only ODU is higher and we are well above nearly everyone else, schools like WKU and Middle aren't even close. Oh, and that doesn't even factor in things like the Vision Campaign which was a Marshall Foundation, not a Big Green, project. So those tens of millions aren't in the donation totals.

Is it our competition? I would say no. If you look at conference Sagarin ratings for every year from 1997 to 2017 you will find that the collection of current teams in CUSA are the weakest collection of conference mates we have ever had. Heck, many teams in this conference didn't even have a program in 1997.

So, if the facilities are fine and the fan support outpaces all but one of our conference mates and our conference is verifiable the weakest we have played in during our time in FBS, what is holding us back? What is the reason we should not think we can be as successful as we were from 1990 to 2004?

Great post and dead on.

 

[TwolfHerdfan]

I find this all very interesting as I just attended an analytics forum and one of the presenters was the evp of marketing for the Altanta Hawks who addressed the hawks attendance woes and everything they did to address it.

They discovered tthey were marketing to the wrong demographics who had the discretionary income to attend games in person. They were way off on who they were targeting. Then they had to figure out how to get the folks there in person versus just watching on TV. And they did a blind analysis of all message boards, blogs, etc to find out why versus doing a survey which could skew the results. If I can obtain his presentation, I'll see if anyone wants to view it.

But even their simple assumptions were way off. But one of the items they were way off on were that fans didn't find the team very personable and relatable. Like the days of tree, spud and Dominique.

From the blind analysis they also found that the #2 reason fans were pissed at the hawks was due to trading Dominique. Happened 20 years earlier and nobody in the org was still there. So they addressed it and got him back involved with the organization more.

Other things they did was target their new demographics on tinder, Twitter, etc. And they embraced the hip hop culture that their customer fit into.

The turnaround in season ticket sales and attendance was amazing. His final comment,get the young and old will follow.

Good post. I think this is where Marshall is missing the boat. Our marketing or game promotion has been weak at best. As for donors and building the fan base, we have tried to rope in the home run hitters when a vast majority of our fan base and demographics are small ball hitters. Yet, Marshall ignores the majority of our fan base and area population in general, thus limiting the possibility of growth greatly.

 

[AllEers6]

Good post. I think this is where Marshall is missing the boat. Our marketing or game promotion has been weak at best. As for donors and building the fan base, we have tried to rope in the home run hitters when a vast majority of our fan base and demographics are small ball hitters. Yet, Marshall ignores the majority of our fan base and area population in general, thus limiting the possibility of growth greatly.

Yes, the AD needs to be seen! During a football Saturday the AD needs to be seen, out recruiting everyday families to support the program. Go out to communities in WV and do public speaking at Rotary's, Chamber events, and Lions Clubs. So much the AD and President for that matter could be doing to sell the product. They are selling education!

 

[caliherd]

I really feel the big thing going on with attendance is more about 3 things.

Numbers 1 and 1A
The reseating program. There was a lot of hurt feelings over it from long time season ticket holders. I honestly dont care what your opinion of the reseating program is whether you think it was great or the worst thing ever, it cost us a lot of fans who were there every week.

Number 1A
Mike Hamricks twitter comments. Once again you can justify it, you can say well if you are doing such and such he wasnt talking about you. I get it but it doesnt change the fact that it went over like a lead baloon. I started going to Marshall games in the early 70s with my dad, Im an old guy for this board, I'm 49. But our booster club, i cant remember if it was always called the Big Green Club, but it was always viewed as a club for big money people. That opinion hasnt changed with a lot of people over the years. Hamricks tweets combined with the reseating plan to a lot of people justified their view of Marshall athletics. That if you are not a big donor do not apply.

Number 3
CUSA doesnt excite anybody. There are literally zero teams that generates excitement for the average non diehard fan with the exception of Southern Miss because of their tradition. Its very similar to how everyone felt about the MAC as we were leaving. Nobody cared about MAC teams even Miami, Ohio, Toledo etc., but especiakky Central Michigan, Buffalo, Eastern Michigan.

CUSA is seen by the casual fan as a terrible league with a bunch of directional teams that nobody gives a crap about. Especially when they can go in a few hours to see Big 10 football, SEC football and Big 12 football. For the casual fan the choice is easy.

I honestly feel those three things have more to do with attendance than Doc or Bill Leggs boring offense.

 

[RhinoD]

Just throwing this out there... I became a Marshall fan during the Pennington-to-Moss years when I was in elementary school. I followed the team and thus the university from that point on and ended up coming to Marshall (from out of state) for college.

The key to that story is, I became a fan when I was 11 (1997)... I don't pretend to know the math surrounding the program and ticket sales, but getting more kids to games is a good thing. The Atlanta Hawks figured that out, as have many pro teams, and they offer special discounts for kids and families. I know that we have done some family deals in the past, but they have been under-marketed.

More events for kids in the pregame tailgating and better priced/better marketed tickets for children and families is where I would start to improve attendance. Just for the record, and to show I am not biased, I have no kids and gladly pay full price to some to games.

 

[herdtown]

I attended the game Saturday and pleased with win # 7 over WKU. That said, I was genuinely pissed that we had opportunties to really step on WKU's neck and played about as conservative as you can get.

WKU, with the roles reversed, would have stepped on the gas as they have in the past.

This breeds apathy and ambivalence in the program that Miller Lite cannot cure.

And, Caliherd is correct as well.

 

[Rock98Dog]

Just throwing this out there... I became a Marshall fan during the Pennington-to-Moss years when I was in elementary school. I followed the team and thus the university from that point on and ended up coming to Marshall (from out of state) for college.

How your life would have been different if we had Litton handing for the same run play instead when you were in elementary school.

 

[herdalicious]

As for donors and building the fan base, we have tried to rope in the home run hitters when a vast majority of our fan base and demographics are small ball hitters.

I might butcher this stat, but I was told once by someone in the AD that less than 50 individuals account for 95% of the donations Marshall receives, and the top 15-20 of those make up the vast majority of that 95%.

One way to look at it - over the last five years, Big Green has raised (on average) about $3.8 million a year in private donations, from a pool of under 3,000 active donors. At the entry level of $50, it would take about 760 new donors (or a quarter of current enrollment) to increase that amount 1%.

 

[exHerdSID]

The tendency in today's world is to try to find a single thing upon which to blame a problem. Unfortunately, as many here point out, causes are interwoven. One example, if we are 9-0, going for 10-0, and we run the ball too much late against WKU we are a whole lot less unhappy than where we were.

I think attendance issues are very complex, with a whole lot of factors:
- years of losing followed by winning heighten fan's expectations, and then those wishes are fulfilled. That leads to a lot of happiness and self-fulfillment in people's everyday lives.
- the end of the Bobby era and the Snyder era caused people to question the value the Herd provided to their lives
- Doc started fairly slow, got up to speed, then we dropped those end of season games, badly
- Off the field issues can't be overlooked
- We have shifted over the years across three completely different sets of historical opponents, MAC, Southern, now CUSA, with even another shift in there within CUSA
- Re-seating never helps retain already unhappy donors
- People have more free choices in watching games now
- Streaming, gaming, and social media give people choices for their free time, and builds communities where in person used to be the only avenue, especially for young people
- The economic stresses are still present in today's world, and in MU's area especially
- The Herd's current offensive scheme is not designed to win games 50-49.
- The suspected growth and improvement in the two FL schools has become reality
- The newness and sense of prosperity in the stadium and tailgating diminishes over time, losing those borderline fans in it for the social angle
- Huntington is not a growth area, so you have few new prospects to sell to
There are several other minor factors that go into this, but I hope that people will understand that a quick fix will only be possible if we start winning championships again. Until then, the most loyal fans will need to support the program. And ticket programs are tiered so that people find a way to come to at least a few games a year.

 

[beefcake0520]

I really feel the big thing going on with attendance is more about 3 things.

Numbers 1 and 1A
The reseating program. There was a lot of hurt feelings over it from long time season ticket holders. I honestly dont care what your opinion of the reseating program is whether you think it was great or the worst thing ever, it cost us a lot of fans who were there every week.

Number 1A
Mike Hamricks twitter comments. Once again you can justify it, you can say well if you are doing such and such he wasnt talking about you. I get it but it doesnt change the fact that it went over like a lead baloon. I started going to Marshall games in the early 70s with my dad, Im an old guy for this board, I'm 49. But our booster club, i cant remember if it was always called the Big Green Club, but it was always viewed as a club for big money people. That opinion hasnt changed with a lot of people over the years. Hamricks tweets combined with the reseating plan to a lot of people justified their view of Marshall athletics. That if you are not a big donor do not apply.

Number 3
CUSA doesnt excite anybody. There are literally zero teams that generates excitement for the average non diehard fan with the exception of Southern Miss because of their tradition. Its very similar to how everyone felt about the MAC as we were leaving. Nobody cared about MAC teams even Miami, Ohio, Toledo etc., but especiakky Central Michigan, Buffalo, Eastern Michigan.

CUSA is seen by the casual fan as a terrible league with a bunch of directional teams that nobody gives a crap about. Especially when they can go in a few hours to see Big 10 football, SEC football and Big 12 football. For the casual fan the choice is easy.

I honestly feel those three things have more to do with attendance than Doc or Bill Leggs boring offense.

Completely agree

 

[TwolfHerdfan]

I might butcher this stat, but I was told once by someone in the AD that less than 50 individuals account for 95% of the donations Marshall receives, and the top 15-20 of those make up the vast majority of that 95%.

One way to look at it - over the last five years, Big Green has raised (on average) about $3.8 million a year in private donations, from a pool of under 3,000 active donors. At the entry level of $50, it would take about 760 new donors (or a quarter of current enrollment) to increase that amount 1%.

Certainly the 80/20 rule would apply but at the same time, what happens when the big boys die off? We are dead because we didn't cultivate new donors. Those small ball hitters may turn into to home run kings in 5-10 years.

I guess there are no right or wrongs on this subject.

 

[Herdmeister]

I really feel the big thing going on with attendance is more about 3 things.

Numbers 1 and 1A
The reseating program. There was a lot of hurt feelings over it from long time season ticket holders. I honestly dont care what your opinion of the reseating program is whether you think it was great or the worst thing ever, it cost us a lot of fans who were there every week.

Number 1A
Mike Hamricks twitter comments. Once again you can justify it, you can say well if you are doing such and such he wasnt talking about you. I get it but it doesnt change the fact that it went over like a lead baloon. I started going to Marshall games in the early 70s with my dad, Im an old guy for this board, I'm 49. But our booster club, i cant remember if it was always called the Big Green Club, but it was always viewed as a club for big money people. That opinion hasnt changed with a lot of people over the years. Hamricks tweets combined with the reseating plan to a lot of people justified their view of Marshall athletics. That if you are not a big donor do not apply.

Number 3
CUSA doesnt excite anybody. There are literally zero teams that generates excitement for the average non diehard fan with the exception of Southern Miss because of their tradition. Its very similar to how everyone felt about the MAC as we were leaving. Nobody cared about MAC teams even Miami, Ohio, Toledo etc., but especiakky Central Michigan, Buffalo, Eastern Michigan.

CUSA is seen by the casual fan as a terrible league with a bunch of directional teams that nobody gives a crap about. Especially when they can go in a few hours to see Big 10 football, SEC football and Big 12 football. For the casual fan the choice is easy.

I honestly feel those three things have more to do with attendance than Doc or Bill Leggs boring offense.

And there is absolutely nothing we can do about #3.

 

[UBeenThunderStruck]

1 - local fan apathy
2 - mediocre teams
3 - officiating is awful
4 - game day atmosphere (Cheerleaders attempting "we are.." cheer while we are on offense

 

[Dreh_Nagi_HC_IM]

It's pretty simple.

Hardcore fans are either getting too old to come out to the stadium or they're already dead. Replacement pool of the new generation of millenials are soft, sissy boys who rank football about #83 on their most favorite things to do list.

Couple that with a conference most don't care much about, a metropolitan area that's likely below the median income level, students who don't care, and you have a recipe for disaster.

Plus, didn't somebody mention that the hot dogs suck?

 

[old buzzard]

In the days before WVU converted the seating in the north end zone into luxury suites, that end zone was called Kroger Fun Zone. People could get discounted tickets to sit there at their local Kroger store, and if I'm not mistaken Kroger made up the difference in exchange for the advertising.

It was a great way to get families into the stadium that might not otherwise be able to afford it. And those people tended to stay for the whole game because it may be the only chance they had all year to see their team in person, and they certainly added to the game day atmosphere.

I would think Marshall could work out a similar deal, maybe with Kroger, maybe with Big Sandy Superstores, or maybe even Wal Mart, as a way to help put butts in seats.

 

[CarolinaHerdzilla]

I might butcher this stat, but I was told once by someone in the AD that less than 50 individuals account for 95% of the donations Marshall receives, and the top 15-20 of those make up the vast majority of that 95%.

One way to look at it - over the last five years, Big Green has raised (on average) about $3.8 million a year in private donations, from a pool of under 3,000 active donors. At the entry level of $50, it would take about 760 new donors (or a quarter of current enrollment) to increase that amount 1%.

I have no way of knowing if your information is correct or not...but I support you are not "off base" by much. There is not a lot of reporting from our administration anymore that lends itself to be "hiding" figures from the state of WV. Remember, Marshall is a State Institution. There was a time when our AD reported the number of Big Green Foundation members and the number of football season tickets sold. I have not read those numbers lately...correct me if I am wrong. I think this information is no longer shared to the general public.

Marshall already has the donor/ticket $$$$ BEFORE KICKOFF... in the Bank, therefore, how many fans show or don't show is not a big problem for them. Their $$$ is in the Bank. My monthly pledge to the Big Green is automatically deducted from my bank account no later than the 5th of each month....and I did not renew football season tickets for 2017. I attended the Louisville game last year...ate my away tickets at Pitt & So. Miss.

STUDENTS. KIds have not changed a lot since my days at Marshall. I graduated in 1969, attended graduate school in 1970 in Huntington. My Kappa Alpha fraternity brothers and I were loyal----we attended all games for football & basketball. We did not have a lot of other options as today's students. Probably 700-1,000 students attended the games then and it appears that number has not grown much in 2017. Perhaps more students attended games in Marshall's Glory Days of 1-AA Championships or the Pennington-Leftwich and the Cato years. Today, some kids work to attend college, have their faces buried in their CELL PHONES, or camp out in rooms or apartments and DRINK adult beverages. We drank too...but during my days you were permitted to take alcohol into the stadium. It is the way it is. Basketball student attendance is deplorable too...and they are missing a very good product.

I agree you have to get young kids "pleading with their parents" to take them to football games. However, ticket pricing has to be affordable for kids to attend and parents need to have the money to take their children. High school football games being played on Saturdays in WV, Ohio & Kentucky has to be another factor causing lower attendance. Yet, look around the country....many schools are facing diminishing home attendance. Marshall is not unique here.

I was told about 11,000 fans attended the 6:30 PM game with WKU last Saturday. Pretty sad considering the Hilltoppers were in town and probably the marque opponent for this year's home slate. Fans do come to see name-brand schools and Marshall "should see" large crowds in the future when the brand school come to Huntington.

I support Doc needs to be respectful to the wishes and boooos from our fans (the ones that PAY the bills & his salary too)...and hire a new, exciting OC. I don't know Coach Legg...he may be the greatest gentleman ever. I do know his brand of play calling is suspect (putting it mildly).

You either support MARSHALL by attending the games---or you don't. Nothing More---Nothing less!

HerdZilla22 (Gary Sweeney) in Charlotte

 

[mutink]

Just my opinion, but I think what generates excitement is the hope of representing the G5 in a New Years six bowl, the hope of winning a conference championship, and the hope of going to a bowl game and winning. With two out of three of those dreams gone now for this year a lot of the excitement is gone for this year.

+1

 

[All4TheHerd]

Why would anyone "want to get out of 1999"? That year showed exactly what the potential of our football program is, so the only people who want out of that are the ones who don't want to do the things necessary to bring about more of that level of success.

Let me ask you this since you believe I am wrong, what things are preventing us from competing for and winning championships like we did annually from 1997 to 2002 along with all the I-AA success we had before that?

Is it facilities? I would say no. Compared to our conference mates we have superior, or at least equal, facilities to all of them. Since the time "we should move past" we have added a new weight training facility, new, state of the art, IPF, remodeled Shewey and locker rooms. In other words, our facilities are much better, we have a lot more bling to attract players than we did 15 years ago.

Is it fan support and donations? I would say no. We have consistently been at, or near, the top of football attendance in CUSA 3.0. We rank 2nd in the conference in what I refer to as fan financial support, the amount collected by the AD through ticket sales and donations. Only ODU is higher and we are well above nearly everyone else, schools like WKU and Middle aren't even close. Oh, and that doesn't even factor in things like the Vision Campaign which was a Marshall Foundation, not a Big Green, project. So those tens of millions aren't in the donation totals.

Is it our competition? I would say no. If you look at conference Sagarin ratings for every year from 1997 to 2017 you will find that the collection of current teams in CUSA are the weakest collection of conference mates we have ever had. Heck, many teams in this conference didn't even have a program in 1997.

So, if the facilities are fine and the fan support outpaces all but one of our conference mates and our conference is verifiable the weakest we have played in during our time in FBS, what is holding us back? What is the reason we should not think we can be as successful as we were from 1990 to 2004?

Well, for one thing, I admitted that 1999 set the standard for us in how to operate and run a successful program so I don't know where your point is in that.

I also am in line to agree with everything you're saying...in fact, I wished more people saw the bigger picture like what you're saying.
Whats holding us back? The nitpicking at the team every chance you get. Instead of embracing the fact we are competitive once more, you just complain about a series that Legg ran and call for him to be fired.
You complain about the BG not sending out an e-mail.
You complain about everything you can BECAUSE we aren't 1999.
The closest we came to replicating 1999 was 2014...and people STILL weren't on board...and turned on the team so quickly in the following 2 years.
Basically, what holds us back are the triiger happy people, ready to abandon all hope and support the moment they sense something isn't right...and whats right? 1999.

 

[All4TheHerd]

I find this all very interesting as I just attended an analytics forum and one of the presenters was the evp of marketing for the Altanta Hawks who addressed the hawks attendance woes and everything they did to address it.

They discovered tthey were marketing to the wrong demographics who had the discretionary income to attend games in person. They were way off on who they were targeting. Then they had to figure out how to get the folks there in person versus just watching on TV. And they did a blind analysis of all message boards, blogs, etc to find out why versus doing a survey which could skew the results. If I can obtain his presentation, I'll see if anyone wants to view it.

But even their simple assumptions were way off. But one of the items they were way off on were that fans didn't find the team very personable and relatable. Like the days of tree, spud and Dominique.

From the blind analysis they also found that the #2 reason fans were pissed at the hawks was due to trading Dominique. Happened 20 years earlier and nobody in the org was still there. So they addressed it and got him back involved with the organization more.

Other things they did was target their new demographics on tinder, Twitter, etc. And they embraced the hip hop culture that their customer fit into.

The turnaround in season ticket sales and attendance was amazing. His final comment,get the young and old will follow.

I think Hamrick did that. He brought Chad and D'Antoni to lead the Vision Campaign. He has also been more electronic and using FB, e-mail, Twitter, Instagram, you name it.

I think Caliherd was right about many aspects of the program and several that go well beyond Doc and Legg.

I also agree, MU marketing needs to be creative in who they want to market the product to.

 

[beefcake0520]

What's funny, is not really that long ago we would have been happy just to make a bowl. Now we are unhappy to not be a divisional/conference champ every year. We have a spoiled base that gets that way very quickly. Look, some programs we brought in, we knew were going to be tough year in, year out with MT and WKU. I think at some point, each one of us has been harping on the FL schools for sucking so much, and now they don't and we are upset because we lost to them. If we analyse this year, we have gotten two monkeys off our backs this year, we finally won at MT and finally beat WKU, maybe we get a third and notch a win in Texas. Most of us have a right to be upset at the losses considering how we lost, but then there is that other side of the coin that gets ignored. I don't care that Urza was the QB, we lost to a stockstill-less team at middle in 2013 that wasn't dissimilar. Our fan base is fickle, we finds reasons to complain and celebrate nothing but championships. It would be nice to win it all every year, but we aren't in the MAC of the 90s, some haven't accepted this fact. I'm thrilled we arent going to be sitting at home this year, thrilled we didn't lay down in Boca, not happy how we lost, but that's the thrill of the game. If we win the last two games, the turn around of this team will be even more pronounced than from 2012 to 2013........think on that for a minute.

 

[Ninegate]

In the days before WVU converted the seating in the north end zone into luxury suites, that end zone was called Kroger Fun Zone. People could get discounted tickets to sit there at their local Kroger store, and if I'm not mistaken Kroger made up the difference in exchange for the advertising.

It was a great way to get families into the stadium that might not otherwise be able to afford it. And those people tended to stay for the whole game because it may be the only chance they had all year to see their team in person, and they certainly added to the game day atmosphere.

I would think Marshall could work out a similar deal, maybe with Kroger, maybe with Big Sandy Superstores, or maybe even Wal Mart, as a way to help put butts in seats.

Sorry, per Sammy Wal Mart shoppers are not worthty of the Marshall Football experience. This is boilerplate with most of his post.

 

[bbneutralfan]

Strange how the athletic department pays an individual who is in charge of promotions and marketing but it only seems to reach a very small portion. The university offers a degree in marketing (College of Business). Think it might be worthwhile to contact that department for some suggestions? They could also get feedback from students in the program. God forbid the athletic department would find a professor or student in that program better prepared than the individual in charge of the athletic department’s marketing and promotions. We have a resource yet do not use it.

 

[CarolinaHerdzilla]

Well, for one thing, I admitted that 1999 set the standard for us in how to operate and run a successful program so I don't know where your point is in that.

I also am in line to agree with everything you're saying...in fact, I wished more people saw the bigger picture like what you're saying.
Whats holding us back? The nitpicking at the team every chance you get. Instead of embracing the fact we are competitive once more, you just complain about a series that Legg ran and call for him to be fired.
You complain about the BG not sending out an e-mail.
You complain about everything you can BECAUSE we aren't 1999.
The closest we came to replicating 1999 was 2014...and people STILL weren't on board...and turned on the team so quickly in the following 2 years.
Basically, what holds us back are the triiger happy people, ready to abandon all hope and support the moment they sense something isn't right...and whats right? 1999.

All4TheHerd....I will agree with some of your points...disagree with others.

AGREE:

* We are not 1999 and "we HERD fans" were spoiled in the decade of the 1990s and the years of the 2000s by winning or playing for Championships.
* Yes, fans did turned on the "play calling" in 2015 & 2016 (off field issues in 2016)....for the most part... today, the fans are on board with the guys wearing green uniforms.

DISAGREE:

* "Trigger happy fans, ready to abandon all hope & support the moment they sense something isn't right...and what's right?" I do not support your statement.

Sports are entertainment that fans are willing to spend their hard earned money on.....or they have a choice to spend their money elsewhere. Paying football fans live in a country where they have the right to speak out about a President of the US, or a kneeling NFL highly payed player. For damn sure...they have the right to speak out against their dislike for the play calling of Coach Legg. I won't go into detail in his play sekection...you will have to refer to my previous posts! When I have a 10 year old grandson watching Marshall games with me saying...."Why does The HERD always run 1st & 2nd down plays to the left side...and then fire a desperation pass of about 45 yards downfield...to pick up a needed 8 yards?"

What's Holding The HERD Back? Marshall is a member of CUSA (a watered down one too) with some schools that were not playing D-1 football in 1999. It is what it is...we do not merit more, economically or educationally speaking. It is gut wrenching to watch teams like UCF, Houston, MEMPHIS and a few others having success in the AAF. Teams The HERD usually defeated in "our" past years of excellence.

ONE CUSA FOOTBALL CHAMPIONSHIP since the present coaching was hired is not acceptable. What happened to the slogan...WE PLAY FOR CHAMPIONSHIPS?

For sure, in 1999 there were more fans in the The JOAN enjoying Marshall football. That is the question you should be posing in your "BIGGER PICTURE."
Lack of Fan Support means there is a problem! It is expectant The HERD goes 9-3 in a league we are members of. Nothing less. FAU was 3-9 in 2016. They made a change and will most likely Win the Belt in 2017 in CUSA.

Coaching MUST mean something?

HerdZilla22 (G. Sweeney) in Charlotte

 

[All4TheHerd]

All4TheHerd....I will agree with some of your points...disagree with others.

AGREE:

* We are not 1999 and "we HERD fans" were spoiled in the decade of the 1990s and the years of the 2000s by winning or playing for Championships.
* Yes, fans did turned on the "play calling" in 2015 & 2016 (off field issues in 2016)....for the most part... today, the fans are on board with the guys wearing green uniforms.

DISAGREE:

* "Trigger happy fans, ready to abandon all hope & support the moment they sense something isn't right...and what's right?" I do not support your statement.

Sports are entertainment that fans are willing to spend their hard earned money on.....or they have a choice to spend their money elsewhere. Paying football fans live in a country where they have the right to speak out about a President of the US, or a kneeling NFL highly payed player. For damn sure...they have the right to speak out against their dislike for the play calling of Coach Legg. I won't go into detail in his play sekection...you will have to refer to my previous posts! When I have a 10 year old grandson watching Marshall games with me saying...."Why does The HERD always run 1st & 2nd down plays to the left side...and then fire a desperation pass of about 45 yards downfield...to pick up a needed 8 yards?"

What's Holding The HERD Back? Marshall is a member of CUSA (a watered down one too) with some schools that were not playing D-1 football in 1999. It is what it is...we do not merit more, economically or educationally speaking. It is gut wrenching to watch teams like UCF, Houston, MEMPHIS and a few others having success in the AAF. Teams The HERD usually defeated in "our" past years of excellence.

ONE CUSA FOOTBALL CHAMPIONSHIP since the present coaching was hired is not acceptable. What happened to the slogan...WE PLAY FOR CHAMPIONSHIPS?

For sure, in 1999 there were more fans in the The JOAN enjoying Marshall football. That is the question you should be posing in your "BIGGER PICTURE."
Lack of Fan Support means there is a problem! It is expectant The HERD goes 9-3 in a league we are members of. Nothing less. FAU was 3-9 in 2016. They made a change and will most likely Win the Belt in 2017 in CUSA.

Coaching MUST mean something?

HerdZilla22 (G. Sweeney) in Charlotte

Do I agree coaching can improve? Yes. Has it? At times. Its frustrating the inconsistency of this team, then again, we play many varieties of teams each week so its understandable.

I mentioned trigger happy folks because if 1 thing goes wrong then they get on here and complain, complain, and complain.
Its one thing to have MU slightly trouble you over 1 thing...its another to threaten your BG membership and say, "Old Main is simply the worst thing I have ever dealt with."

 

[CarolinaHerdzilla]

Strange how the athletic department pays an individual who is in charge of promotions and marketing but it only seems to reach a very small portion. The university offers a degree in marketing (College of Business). Think it might be worthwhile to contact that department for some suggestions? They could also get feedback from students in the program. God forbid the athletic department would find a professor or student in that program better prepared than the individual in charge of the athletic department’s marketing and promotions. We have a resource yet do not use it.

bbneutralfan....if you are referring to John Sutherland & Teddy Kluemper III...I strongly DISAGREE.

I know they both spend countless hours away from their families pounding the pavement...supporting Marshall. There is more to their jobs than "asking for money." They are very visual at Alumni Associations in cities where we have Chapters....(perhaps you should join an Alumni group and talk to them). The can be been seen at sporting events, golf fund raising events, etc.... supporting Marshall...the Olympic sports too. Have you ever approached them to introduce yourself? I think you would like both of them and their commitment to Marshall. John is an ex-HERD coach...Teddy is a Marshall graduate. They BLEED GREEN...the same as we!

Marshall's promotional $$$ are very limited and they are utilized & "stretched" in the best possible way to support The HERD. It take$ a lot of money to advertise your product. I have seen a lot of improvement with the promotional aids that arrive at my door. I am sure our College of Business folks offer suggestions to both of them....in fact there are business students on board doing the "grunt work" right now!

HerdZilla22 (Gary Sweeney) in Charlotte

 

[raleighherdfan]

but I hope that people will understand that a quick fix will only be possible if we start winning championships again.

Uhhh ohhh!! This one wont sit well with the young "superfans"................

 

[CockyHerd]

I’d like to see the Athletic Department send out an online survey to all season ticket holders and Big Green members.

In regards to the Big Green itself, we couldn’t find any better people than John, Teddy, and Taylor. Stop by the Big Green Office, become a member and introduce yourself. Attend as many events as you can and support The Herd with your participation and your dollars. The Big Green tailgates, Coaches Tour events, QB lunches, Tip-Off Club events, etc are awesome.

 

[CarolinaHerdzilla]

I’d like to see the Athletic Department send out an online survey to all season ticket holders and Big Green members.

In regards to the Big Green itself, we couldn’t find any better people than John, Teddy, and Taylor. Stop by the Big Green Office, become a member and introduce yourself. Attend as many events as you can and support The Herd with your participation and your dollars. The Big Green tailgates, Coaches Tour events, QB lunches, Tip-Off Club events, etc are awesome.

SPOT ON...CockyHERD. Our BIG GREEN FOUNDATION leaders... do a wonderful job for Marshall.

HerdZilla22 in Charlotte

 

[THUNDERGround]

Let me just ask this (and I am genuinely asking): If the Joan only held 30000 (Something else in the end zone) and the stadium appeared much more full, would people still be complaining about attendance? It almost seems to be a problem of perception. 25000 in a 30000 seat stadium looks a helluva lot better than 25000 in a 39000 seat stadium.

 

[CarolinaHerdzilla]

Let me just ask this (and I am genuinely asking): If the Joan only held 30000 (Something else in the end zone) and the stadium appeared much more full, would people still be complaining about attendance? It almost seems to be a problem of perception. 25000 in a 30000 seat stadium looks a helluva lot better than 25000 in a 39000 seat stadium.

Perhaps Marshall should TARP the endzone seating area?

HerdZilla22

 

[CockyHerd]

Let me just ask this (and I am genuinely asking): If the Joan only held 30000 (Something else in the end zone) and the stadium appeared much more full, would people still be complaining about attendance? It almost seems to be a problem of perception. 25000 in a 30000 seat stadium looks a helluva lot better than 25000 in a 39000 seat stadium.

12,000 looks like sh!t whether it’s 30k or 40k.

I’ll never understand that crowd for WKU.

 

[THUNDERGround]

Perhaps Marshall should TARP the endzone seating area?

HerdZilla22

LOL...No....and BTW I wasn't the one to suggest that. I was just asking a simple question, that's all.