More Proof of Jumping Ship

[riflearm2]

There's more proof that the ship is sinking, and coaches aren't the only ones who have noticed.

Marshall has 11 players in the transfer portal. Usually, programs that have lost coaches (FAU, UTSA, ODU) or are having a string of horrible seasons (UTEP, Rice) lead the pack in transfers, but nope. Marshall leads the conference in players in the portal.

Not to worry: Coach Stowers and Perkins are still on the deck playing their instruments.

 

[i am herdman]

And Coach Stowers said to the band:

 

[MrHerd05]

Very disappointing in you Rifle on this one. You are better than that. I expected more.

11 players:

3 were scholarship players who ever played a down

Only Obialo and Morrow played meaningful downs and Morrows were on special teams

Not sure how this falls I to your “sinking ship” argument.

 

[johns1124]

You keep saying "Jumping Ship", except for two; you are just preaching to the choir. So why don't
you give an opinion how to right the ship besides the obvious new coach and terrible conference.

 

[Marine03]

There's more proof that the ship is sinking, and coaches aren't the only ones who have noticed.

Marshall has 11 players in the transfer portal. Usually, programs that have lost coaches (FAU, UTSA, ODU) or are having a string of horrible seasons (UTEP, Rice) lead the pack in transfers, but nope. Marshall leads the conference in players in the portal.

Not to worry: Coach Stowers and Perkins are still on the deck playing their instruments.

But @ohio herd just said the ship isn’t sinking....

 

[Marine03]

Very disappointing in you Rifle on this one. You are better than that. I expected more.

11 players:

3 were scholarship players who ever played a down

Only Obialo and Morrow played meaningful downs and Morrows were on special teams

Not sure how this falls I to your “sinking ship” argument.

So our below average QB just lost his best WR, do you expect any different outcome then a .500 record or barely above that mark? I certainly do not

 

[MrHerd05]

I didn’t want to lose Obi but to act like the ship is sinking because one productive left as a grad transfer is a bit of a stretch.

 

[herdalicious]

The ship is sinking....for G5 schools that aren't compensating athletes under the table. The transfer portal makes it like musical chairs; unless you're passing cash on to the kids to stay on campus, they blow away with the wind.

 

[BleedsGreen33]

I didn’t want to lose Obi but to act like the ship is sinking because one productive left as a grad transfer is a bit of a stretch.

Not really. The WR corp sucked his year. Obi came on with 4 games left and nearly became the leading WRs in 1/4 the the games. Not having him this season hurt and it's going to hurt in 2020.

I don't know why we can never be honest when a player leaves. "Oh it's not that big a deal." Just like we all said losing King wouldn't hurt that bad. I don't think anyone being honest wouldn't see that Obi and King would have been huge boosts to the offense. As it stands right now we do not have one consistent game breaking player on the offense.

 

[ohio herd]

But @ohio herd just said the ship isn’t sinking....

it isn't no matter how many time you say it is. Now is it time for a change in coaches that is a different subject. For the record there are only 4 G5 schools ahead of us in this years ranking at this point. We just finished with an 8 win season against the most difficult schedule we have ever had. So no the ship is not sinking, we may need another captain I will not argue that point with you @Marine03

 

[Marine03]

it isn't no matter how many time you say it is. Now is it time for a change in coaches that is a different subject. For the record there are only 4 G5 schools ahead of us in this years ranking at this point. We just finished with an 8 win season against the most difficult schedule we have ever had. So no the ship is not sinking, we may need another captain I will not argue that point with you @Marine03

Lmbo this is absurd, the most difficult schedule ever? GTFO of here.

 

[i am herdman]

Not really. The WR corp sucked his year. Obi came on with 4 games left and nearly became the leading WRs in 1/4 the the games. Not having him this season hurt and it's going to hurt in 2020.

I don't know why we can never be honest when a player leaves. "Oh it's not that big a deal." Just like we all said losing King wouldn't hurt that bad. I don't think anyone being honest wouldn't see that Obi and King would have been huge boosts to the offense. As it stands right now we do not have one consistent game breaking player on the offense.

Why would high quality WR come here. Our offense is like watching paint dry and we don't exactly have the forward pass and modern offense in tune. Can't really blame them. Throw in a below aveage qb and why would a receiver want to come to MU?

 

[ohio herd]

Lmbo this is absurd, the most difficult schedule ever? GTFO of here.

we played and lost to 3 teams that finished the season in the top 25 of the AP poll. We beat 2 teams that finished the season with 10 or more wins. Another team WKU finished with 9 wins.. Go ahead and laugh. Do we need to improve and quit losing to scrub teams like UNCC ...yes! Are we a horrible team ...no!

 

[muthed]

it isn't no matter how many time you say it is. Now is it time for a change in coaches that is a different subject. For the record there are only 4 G5 schools ahead of us in this years ranking at this point. We just finished with an 8 win season against the most difficult schedule we have ever had. So no the ship is not sinking, we may need another captain I will not argue that point with you @Marine03

If you think last year was our most difficult schedule, what say you about 2020?

 

[Marine03]

If you think last year was our most difficult schedule, what say you about 2020?

Or 2003, or 2004?

 

[muthed]

we played and lost to 3 teams that finished the season in the top 25 of the AP poll. We beat 2 teams that finished the season with 10 or more wins. Another team WKU finished with 9 wins.. Go ahead and laugh. Do we need to improve and quit losing to scrub teams like UNCC ...yes! Are we a horrible team ...no!

Playing and losing to 3 teams in the top 25 gets you ZERO brownie points. And losing to UNCC and MTSU gets you an automatic deduction in points.

 

[Marine03]

we played and lost to 3 teams that finished the season in the top 25 of the AP poll. We beat 2 teams that finished the season with 10 or more wins. Another team WKU finished with 9 wins.. Go ahead and laugh. Do we need to improve and quit losing to scrub teams like UNCC ...yes! Are we a horrible team ...no!

I am laughing at your logic. We were drubbed at home to UC, in a bowl by UCF. We beat LTU with their starters out and also lost to Charlotte. We have no QB to speak of, 10 in the portal including our top WR. We follow that up by signing 6 RB’s in a mediocre recruiting class and we are walking into a decent schedule in 2020. Sugar coat it all you want but the ship is sinking

 

[cottrell75]

ohio herd said:

↑



we played and lost to 3 teams that finished the season in the top 25 of the AP poll. We beat 2 teams that finished the season with 10 or more wins. Another team WKU finished with 9 wins.. Go ahead and laugh. Do we need to improve and quit losing to scrub teams like UNCC ...yes! Are we a horrible team ...no!

I am laughing at your logic. We were drubbed at home to UC, in a bowl by UCF. We beat LTU with their starters out and also lost to Charlotte. We have no QB to speak of, 10 in the portal including our top WR. We follow that up by signing 6 RB’s in a mediocre recruiting class and we are walking into a decent schedule in 2020. Sugar coat it all you want but the ship is sinking
[/quote]
I shared Jaleel McLaughlin’s highlights a few years ago and was told he was too small...he’s 5’9(and can dunk with the best of them) and well ahead of pace to shatter the all-time college rushing records across all divisions....and we just had a 5’6 RB commit.

 

[riflearm2]

Very disappointing in you Rifle on this one. You are better than that. I expected more.

11 players:

3 were scholarship players who ever played a down

Only Obialo and Morrow played meaningful downs and Morrows were on special teams

Not sure how this falls I to your “sinking ship” argument.

So it only counts when certain players transfer? Explain why Marshall is the conference leader in kids wanting to transfer. Is that just one huge coincidence along with coaches jumping ship for inferior positions? Is it just one huge coincidence that those things are happening while Marshall continues to not even be able to win simply its division in an awful conference?

 

[riflearm2]

For the record there are only 4 G5 schools ahead of us in this years ranking at this point. [/USER]

Using what ranking? According to Rivals, there are more than four G5 schools ahead of us including that powerhouse known as Bowling Green.

Further, Marshall's ranking of #70 is only due to having signed a lot more recruits than the other schools. There are a ton of G5s right on Marshall's ass in these rankings. The only reason they aren't ahead at this point is because they have signed far fewer recruits. Even worse, they have far better average star rankings than Marshall. Even if they get some shit recruits to fill their remaining spots, they will jump ahead of Marshall.

Using the ranking which focuses on the number of recruits signed, Marshall is not in front of a single team ahead of them (in the cumulative ranking) if you look at just average star ranking. On the other hand, using the same ranking which focuses on number of signees, Marshall has nearly 30 teams ahead of them in average star rankings that are ranked below the Herd in the cumulative ranking.

What does that mean? It means that Marshall is only currently ranked 70th due to having signed a lot more recruits than the other schools. In fact, there are only two schools in the entire country (outside of the service academies who have different rules) that have signed more recruits than Marshall at this point.

Out of the top 100 teams in the rankings, only eight have an average star raking lower than Marshall.

 

[GoHerdMarshallYes]

Why would high quality WR come here. Our offense is like watching paint dry and we don't exactly have the forward pass and modern offense in tune. Can't really blame them. Throw in a below aveage qb and why would a receiver want to come to MU?

Keeping with the sinking ship theme, that's like sending a distress signal and then telling the Coast Guard, "Well...we are kinda far away...and like...our boat sorta looks dumb...don't worry, we'll drown, it'll be fine. Turn back guys."

You demand better coaching then backtrack saying, "Who would want to coach here?"

 

[Chris McLaughlin]

Using what ranking? According to Rivals, there are more than four G5 schools ahead of us including that powerhouse known as Bowling Green.

Further, Marshall's ranking of #70 is only due to having signed a lot more recruits than the other schools. There are a ton of G5s right on Marshall's ass in these rankings. The only reason they aren't ahead at this point is because they have signed far fewer recruits. Even worse, they have far better average star rankings than Marshall. Even if they get some shit recruits to fill their remaining spots, they will jump ahead of Marshall.

Using the ranking which focuses on the number of recruits signed, Marshall is not in front of a single team ahead of them (in the cumulative ranking) if you look at just average star ranking. On the other hand, using the same ranking which focuses on number of signees, Marshall has nearly 30 teams ahead of them in average star rankings that are ranked below the Herd in the cumulative ranking.

What does that mean? It means that Marshall is only currently ranked 70th due to having signed a lot more recruits than the other schools. In fact, there are only two schools in the entire country (outside of the service academies who have different rules) that have signed more recruits than Marshall at this point.

Out of the top 100 teams in the rankings, only eight have an average star raking lower than Marshall.

Rivals only looks at the 20 highest rated commits when doing team rankings. So yes, it is possible that schools like MTSU, Southern Miss and Western could jump Marshall (assuming they sign additional recruits), but that will only happen if their new commits are fairly highly ranked and "replace" a lower rated recruit on their list of 20.

 

[riflearm2]

Rivals only looks at the 20 highest rated commits when doing team rankings. So yes, it is possible that schools like MTSU, Southern Miss and Western could jump Marshall (assuming they sign additional recruits), but that will only happen if their new commits are fairly highly ranked and "replace" a lower rated recruit on their list of 20.

Which is another reason why I think Rivals' rankings are poor.

What is better - a team that has signed 15 recruits who are all 2 stars or a team that has signed 7 recruits who are all 4 stars? I'll take the latter. It will easy to fill the rest of your slots with 2 star guys, but as it is, the 15 recruits who are 2 stars get a team ranked higher than 7 recruits who are 4 stars.

This cumulative thing is shit unless schools simply aren't going to fill all of their scholarships which is foolish. Average star rankings are more important.

 

[Chris McLaughlin]

Which is another reason why I think Rivals' rankings are poor.

What is better - a team that has signed 15 recruits who are all 2 stars or a team that has signed 7 recruits who are all 4 stars? I'll take the latter. It will easy to fill the rest of your slots with 2 star guys, but as it is, the 15 recruits who are 2 stars get a team ranked higher than 7 recruits who are 4 stars.

This cumulative thing is shit unless schools simply aren't going to fill all of their scholarships which is foolish. Average star rankings are more important.

There are other things that go into the rankings as well. You get bonus points for guys being ranked in the top 100 at their position, inside the Rivals 250, 100, etc.

I'm not 100% positive but I'm fairly certain a class of seven 4-star kids would be ranked higher than an entire class of 20 2-stars.

 

[2.0]

There's more proof that the ship is sinking, and coaches aren't the only ones who have noticed.

Marshall has 11 players in the transfer portal. Usually, programs that have lost coaches (FAU, UTSA, ODU) or are having a string of horrible seasons (UTEP, Rice) lead the pack in transfers, but nope. Marshall leads the conference in players in the portal.

Not to worry: Coach Stowers and Perkins are still on the deck playing their instruments.

Would you consider Virginia Tech and UCLA as sinking ships.
Also did you research the players that are in the portal for Marshall. Of the 11 in there, only 1 was a key contributor

 

[riflearm2]

Would you consider Virginia Tech and UCLA as sinking ships.

UCLA? They are more than a sinking ship. They have won 7 games, total, over the last two years. It's been five years since they've had a winning season.

Tech is very close to a sinking ship. They just had their worst two years in 27 years. Two years ago, they had their first losing season in 27 years.

The question is if you were on a sinking ship, would you be able to afford $200 for a float to save yourself or would you waste away as a fat, sloppy, goofy smiling, Coke-bottom glasses, lived in his momma's basement when he was 30 years old, beat his wife so much that she moved across the country, nine different jobs in 3.5 years, scamming, piece of shit?

 

[mlblack16.]

Would you consider Virginia Tech and UCLA as sinking ships.
Also did you research the players that are in the portal for Marshall. Of the 11 in there, only 1 was a key contributor

Then that means we had 11 correction, 10 shitty players taking up scholarships and is reflective of poor recruiting and/or lack of being able to develop talent. It's still not good.

 

[2.0]

UCLA? They are more than a sinking ship. They have won 7 games, total, over the last two years. It's been five years since they've had a winning season.

Tech is very close to a sinking ship. They just had their worst two years in 27 years. Two years ago, they had their first losing season in 27 years.

The question is if you were on a sinking ship, would you be able to afford $200 for a float to save yourself or would you waste away as a fat, sloppy, goofy smiling, Coke-bottom glasses, lived in his momma's basement when he was 30 years old, beat his wife so much that she moved across the country, nine different jobs in 3.5 years, scamming, piece of shit?

Getting personal with lies instead of answering the question. Par the course with you.

But I will re-ask my question. Instead of coming here to find another excuse to bash the program. Did you research the kids from Marshall that are in the transfer portal?

 

[2.0]

Here is the current list of kids in the Transfer Portal from Marshall for those interested.

https://247sports.com/college/marshall/Season/2020-Football/TransferPortal/

 

[Herd-nificent]

Are these valuable players? or players that we can do without?

 

[riflearm2]

Getting personal with lies instead of answering the question. Par the course with you.

But I will re-ask my question. Instead of coming here to find another excuse to bash the program. Did you research the kids from Marshall that are in the transfer portal?

Let me dumb it down for you:

Marshall leads the conference in players trying to jump ship. That is indicative of one of two things: 1) the players see the writing on the wall and are jumping ship from a program going down 2) Marshall's coaches have been very bad in their recruiting of players who won't be able to compete at this level.

Neither of them are good indicators.

Now, you tell us: Why does Marshall lead the conference in players trying to get out? Why did Marshall lose a coach to an inferior position? Why do so many of Marshall's recruits over the last two years have no or only FCS offers?

 

[2.0]

Let me dumb it down for you:

Marshall leads the conference in players trying to jump ship. That is indicative of one of two things: 1) the players see the writing on the wall and are jumping ship from a program going down 2) Marshall's coaches have been very bad in their recruiting of players who won't be able to compete at this level.

Neither of them are good indicators.

Now, you tell us: Why does Marshall lead the conference in players trying to get out? Why did Marshall lose a coach to an inferior position? Why do so many of Marshall's recruits over the last two years have no or only FCS offers?

First off you arent dumbing anything down for anyone. The same questions you are asking are the same ones I am asking.

But lets recap the transfers.

1. QB Maurice Underwood - Passed up by Grant Wells another freshmen that came in his class. Cant see a negative impact here. He got beat out by a lower ranked kid.

2. RB Jalynn Sykes - A former NQ that got beat out by 2 freshman and would have been buried. Cant tell the future but he surely wasnt going to wait for it. Now he is at Kennesaw State.

3. RB Joseph Early - A former walk-on. Nothing more needs to be said

4. WR Obi Obialo - This one stings, potential All-Conference performer who wanted one last crack on the P5 level and is heading to Oklahoma.

5. TE Zach Lieninger - JUCO transfer part of the 2019 class. Season Ending injury last spring. Granted a Medical Hardship from Marshall.....Never played in a single game. Heading to Akron as a walk-on

6. LB Breon Hayward - Late 2017 JUCO transfer signee who never panned out at all and got beat out by 2 true freshman this past fall.

7. DB Sidney Porter - Class of 2019 Freshman, here is the second person(Obi Obialo) on this list that potentially will sting. Left after a couple months on campus. Cant keep a kid who is homesick. Could have made an impact in the future but we will never know.

8. DB Jestin Morrow - He will be a grad transfer, was on the team and didnt make an impact but he graduated. Cant really ask for more from him.

9. DB Kenard King - Former NQ who left crying about playing time when he was actually playing. No point in having players like that sticking around. He had starting material if he humbled himself.

10. DB Akele Pauling - Former Walk-On that would have never played had he stuck around. Transferred to Charleston Southern. Not missing anything here.

11. DB Chad Clay - Problem child at UGA, Problem child at Marshall. Probably shouldnt have brought him here but Doc has always been a benefit of the doubt kind of guy. Never really played here either

 

[2.0]

Also

Marshall did lead the conference in All-Conference selections, make sure you mention that.

As far as leaving Marshall for an inferior position. 2016, we saw Todd Hartley leave Marshall for an off-field position at UGA only to become one of the top TE coaches in the country at Miami and at UGA. He has also recruited the #1 TE in the country 2 out of the last 3 years.

I was not a big fan of Mike Treier because I felt his position group declined in technique but he got an opportunity with the NY Giants which is not a bad career move at all. I mean its not a BCU to Abilene-Christian career move but you get my drift.

 

[riflearm2]

First off you arent dumbing anything down for anyone. The same questions you are asking are the same ones I am asking.

But lets recap the transfers.

1. QB Maurice Underwood - Passed up by Grant Wells another freshmen that came in his class. Cant see a negative impact here. He got beat out by a lower ranked kid.

2. RB Jalynn Sykes - A former NQ that got beat out by 2 freshman and would have been buried. Cant tell the future but he surely wasnt going to wait for it. Now he is at Kennesaw State.

3. RB Joseph Early - A former walk-on. Nothing more needs to be said

4. WR Obi Obialo - This one stings, potential All-Conference performer who wanted one last crack on the P5 level and is heading to Oklahoma.

5. TE Zach Lieninger - JUCO transfer part of the 2019 class. Season Ending injury last spring. Granted a Medical Hardship from Marshall.....Never played in a single game. Heading to Akron as a walk-on

6. LB Breon Hayward - Late 2017 JUCO transfer signee who never panned out at all and got beat out by 2 true freshman this past fall.

7. DB Sidney Porter - Class of 2019 Freshman, here is the second person(Obi Obialo) on this list that potentially will sting. Left after a couple months on campus. Cant keep a kid who is homesick. Could have made an impact in the future but we will never know.

8. DB Jestin Morrow - He will be a grad transfer, was on the team and didnt make an impact but he graduated. Cant really ask for more from him.

9. DB Kenard King - Former NQ who left crying about playing time when he was actually playing. No point in having players like that sticking around. He had starting material if he humbled himself.

10. DB Akele Pauling - Former Walk-On that would have never played had he stuck around. Transferred to Charleston Southern. Not missing anything here.

11. DB Chad Clay - Problem child at UGA, Problem child at Marshall. Probably shouldnt have brought him here but Doc has always been a benefit of the doubt kind of guy. Never really played here either

So as I said, either a bunch of guys see that the ship is taking on water or Marshall's staff has done an awful job of evaluating talent.

Also

Marshall did lead the conference in All-Conference selections, make sure you mention that.

And still finished tied with two other teams for third in the conference. Congratulations, Marshall, on having the best talent but not being able to even win your division.

As far as leaving Marshall for an inferior position. 2016, we saw Todd Hartley leave Marshall for an off-field position at UGA only to become one of the top TE coaches in the country at Miami and at UGA. He has also recruited the #1 TE in the country 2 out of the last 3 years.
.

Yes, Hartley left for a significant salary increase. He nearly doubled his salary going from Marshall to Georgia. That wasn't the case for Treier going to FSU as a QC or analyst.

Also
I was not a big fan of Mike Treier because I felt his position group declined in technique but he got an opportunity with the NY Giants which is not a bad career move at all.

There was no way he could predict that. He took an inferior position to get off of the sinking ship. He then took a similar position at a G5 showing that he values Colorado State safety coach > FSU analyst > Marshall safety coach/recruiting coordinator.

That's very telling that he considers a down-on-your-luck Colorado State safeties position significantly better than a Marshall safeties/recruiting coordinator position.

It appears that he is a defensive assistant, which is usually a position filled by FCS coaches, top FBS GAs, etc. Again, that's a very bad sign.

 

[2.0]

Your first 2 points, you are preaching to the choir.

As far as Treier goes. Chuck Heater groomed him when he was here at Marshall when Treier was a GA here. So I certainly see the move from FSU to Colorado State.

Also as the NFL job goes, not everyone has the chance to jump into the coaching circles of the NFL. Probably sees an opportunity in the NFL to develop his coaching skill set. I dont know how anyone can hate on that.

 

[muthed]

First off you arent dumbing anything down for anyone. The same questions you are asking are the same ones I am asking.

But lets recap the transfers.

1. QB Maurice Underwood - Passed up by Grant Wells another freshmen that came in his class. Cant see a negative impact here. He got beat out by a lower ranked kid.

2. RB Jalynn Sykes - A former NQ that got beat out by 2 freshman and would have been buried. Cant tell the future but he surely wasnt going to wait for it. Now he is at Kennesaw State.

3. RB Joseph Early - A former walk-on. Nothing more needs to be said

4. WR Obi Obialo - This one stings, potential All-Conference performer who wanted one last crack on the P5 level and is heading to Oklahoma.

5. TE Zach Lieninger - JUCO transfer part of the 2019 class. Season Ending injury last spring. Granted a Medical Hardship from Marshall.....Never played in a single game. Heading to Akron as a walk-on

6. LB Breon Hayward - Late 2017 JUCO transfer signee who never panned out at all and got beat out by 2 true freshman this past fall.

7. DB Sidney Porter - Class of 2019 Freshman, here is the second person(Obi Obialo) on this list that potentially will sting. Left after a couple months on campus. Cant keep a kid who is homesick. Could have made an impact in the future but we will never know.

8. DB Jestin Morrow - He will be a grad transfer, was on the team and didnt make an impact but he graduated. Cant really ask for more from him.

9. DB Kenard King - Former NQ who left crying about playing time when he was actually playing. No point in having players like that sticking around. He had starting material if he humbled himself.

10. DB Akele Pauling - Former Walk-On that would have never played had he stuck around. Transferred to Charleston Southern. Not missing anything here.

11. DB Chad Clay - Problem child at UGA, Problem child at Marshall. Probably shouldnt have brought him here but Doc has always been a benefit of the doubt kind of guy. Never really played here either

12 players listed on your transfer list. 11 players profiled. Where is #12?

 

[banker6796]

Would you consider Virginia Tech and UCLA as sinking ships.
Also did you research the players that are in the portal for Marshall. Of the 11 in there, only 1 was a key contributor

Hard to be a key contributor when you leave after your RS freshman year. We are supposedly poor, yet we just spent $25-30k on Underwood so he could leave. That's solid recruiting. How do you miss on character that much?

 

[i am herdman]

Let me dumb it down for you:

Marshall leads the conference in players trying to jump ship. That is indicative of one of two things: 1) the players see the writing on the wall and are jumping ship from a program going down 2) Marshall's coaches have been very bad in their recruiting of players who won't be able to compete at this level.

Neither of them are good indicators.

Now, you tell us: Why does Marshall lead the conference in players trying to get out? Why did Marshall lose a coach to an inferior position? Why do so many of Marshall's recruits over the last two years have no or only FCS offers?

Hopefully because it is the last season for our coach. Time to move on.

 

[2.0]

12 players listed on your transfer list. 11 players profiled. Where is #12?

1 transferred in

 

[johns1124]

Hopefully because it is the last season for our coach. Time to move on.

I think that's the problem in a nutshell.. He knows it and does not give a shit (about recruiting or anything). Meaning, it's going to take few years
post D1C to get recruiting back on track cause 1 or 2 are just lost to apathy.