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murox was right (again).

If you're angling at the covid shot I'm not sure I can connect that dot.

A blood clot or an arrhythmia maybe, but ruptured aneurism I'm not sure.

I think if you're looking at the retrospectoscope I bet if this guy were in the US and having chest pain and a negative cardiac work up he gets a CT with IV contrast and we find this thing. But maybe not. @marshallisqbu would know better than me.
 
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-CarlHungus- said:
If you're angling at the covid shot I'm not sure I can connect that dot.

A blood clot or an arrhythmia maybe, but ruptured aneurism I'm not sure.

I think if you're looking at the retrospectoscope I bet if this guy were in the US and having chest pain and a negative cardiac work up he gets a CT with IV contrast and we find this thing. But maybe not. @marshallisqbu would know better than me.
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Wouldn’t the clotting associated with the mRNA shots contribute to an aneurysm?
 
murox said:
Wouldn’t the clotting associated with the mRNA shots contribute to an aneurysm?
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I didn't read the article in detail but I didn't see any mention of a clot. A big clot would have been seen in an autopsy.

I'm way out of my league here, but aortic aneurisms at young ages can happen in Marfan's syndrome - though he doesn't look marfanoid. Can just be bad luck. I think untreated syphilis can do it too but that is extremely ulikely with modern medicine.
 
-CarlHungus- said:
If you're angling at the covid shot I'm not sure I can connect that dot.

A blood clot or an arrhythmia maybe, but ruptured aneurism I'm not sure.

I think if you're looking at the retrospectoscope I bet if this guy were in the US and having chest pain and a negative cardiac work up he gets a CT with IV contrast and we find this thing. But maybe not. @marshallisqbu would know better than me.
Click to expand...
Sounds like he died from a ruptured AAA. Unruptured ones are most commonly dx on ct abdomen pelvis incidentally when we are looking for something else. Ruptured ones are most commonly dx as his was via autopsy.
I have had maybe 3-4 ruptured ones present to me in Ed in my career, and those are usually dx with bedside ultrasound showing blood in the belly in a patient with abd pain distension and or shock. Occasionally they will bleed retroperitonally and wall off and live long enough to get to me. Good thing for most is that this is a death from hemorrhage very quickly.

Risk factors are atherosclerosis, smoking, and age.
 
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IMO the best argument for suddenly and unexpectedly I think is maybe not a clot.

It is that (possibly) subclinical myocarditis caused scar in the heart which is a known phenomena. Abnormal heart scar doesn't conduct electricity in the heart as well as normal tissue. These patients are more prone to arrhythmias. There is VERY clear evidence, especially in young males, especially with Moderna that myocarditis incidence is much greater than that of general population.

The clot stuff is also possible, but I think right now we have more solid data about myocarditis than clotting phenomena.

I am still not convinced the shots are contributing to significant morbidity or mortality that I can tell yet. I also think mandates at this point (especially for college kids) are absolutely criminal.
 
marshallisqbu said:
Sounds like he died from a ruptured AAA. Unruptured ones are most commonly dx on ct abdomen pelvis incidentally when we are looking for something else. Ruptured ones are most commonly dx as his was via autopsy.
I have had maybe 3-4 ruptured ones present to me in Ed in my career, and those are usually dx with bedside ultrasound showing blood in the belly in a patient with abd pain distension and or shock. Occasionally they will bleed retroperitonally and wall off and live long enough to get to me. Good thing for most is that this is a death from hemorrhage very quickly.

Risk factors are atherosclerosis, smoking, and age.
Click to expand...

I couldn't tell if thoracic or abdominal from the article.

My ER buddies have said the same thing as you. Pretty quick and rare you save someone in these situations.
 
Screenshot-20221214-105507-Instagram.jpg
 
HerdandHokies said:
Suicide. It’s extremely gross how every time someone dies now we get the well maybe it was the shot!
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With excess mortality rates in under 50s ranging from 15-35% above pre-Covid average we have to assume vax is the cause for all unexplained (not suicides, obviously) deaths in young people until proven otherwise.

 
HerdandHokies said:
Suicide. It’s extremely gross how every time someone dies now we get the well maybe it was the shot!
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It’s very rare for a 40 year old to just up and die. Especially one that appears healthy. It’s either drugs suicide accident and now mysterious heart issues popping up. It’s ok to ask questions.
 
herdfan429 said:
It’s very rare for a 40 year old to just up and die. Especially one that appears healthy. It’s either drugs suicide accident and now mysterious heart issues popping up. It’s ok to ask questions.
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We can probably give it a day to find out the cause of death before throwing it into the mental pile of “40 year old died; the vaccine must’ve been bad!”
 
HerdandHokies said:
We can probably give it a day to find out the cause of death before throwing it into the mental pile of “40 year old died; the vaccine must’ve been bad!”
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There’s usually some indication in initial reports of cause of death. I even acknowledged there was no cause of death listed. We’ve seen healthy people just drop dead from cardiac issues lately. Its not out of the realm of possibility for that connection to be made is all I’m saying
 
herdfan429 said:
There’s usually some indication in initial reports of cause of death. I even acknowledged there was no cause of death listed. We’ve seen healthy people just drop dead from cardiac issues lately. Its not out of the realm of possibility for that connection to be made is all I’m saying
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It should be studied for sure. And they should also study any increase if you get Covid and haven’t had the shot. And if you get Covid and have had the shot. Study them all. But individual cases of younger people dying don’t really have any relevance and I still think it’s gross to bring them up in that context.
 
-CarlHungus- said:
I couldn't tell if thoracic or abdominal from the article.

My ER buddies have said the same thing as you. Pretty quick and rare you save someone in these situations.
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One article said he had hemopericardium, so it must have been thoracic.
That makes the hospital visit for chest pain a few days prior more heartbreaking, bc those can often be seen on a simple chest x ray. Surely they would have at least done that. He must have had a small leak then and considering he lived a few more days had they caught it and took him to surgery he may have lived.
 
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HerdandHokies said:
It should be studied for sure. And they should also study any increase if you get Covid and haven’t had the shot. And if you get Covid and have had the shot. Study them all. But individual cases of younger people dying don’t really have any relevance and I still think it’s gross to bring them up in that context.
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You think that’s gross but showing porn to third graders is ok?! It’s anecdotal evidence about an issue that was being discussed. No one is claiming that he did from the shot. It was a story about a younger person dying which doesn’t happen usually.
 
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HerdandHokies said:
It should be studied for sure. And they should also study any increase if you get Covid and haven’t had the shot. And if you get Covid and have had the shot. Study them all. But individual cases of younger people dying don’t really have any relevance and I still think it’s gross to bring them up in that context.
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You'd know better than I, but I'd bet in (?many?) American ER's he gets a CT of his chest and I don't blame the docs for "over" ordering those things.

Though with recent respiratory illness easy to think he had pleurisy or pneumonia or whatever. So it doesn't seem egregious to miss this. Sometimes bad sh*t just happens.
 
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How many doctors do we have on this forum?

Doc Fungus is the surgeon general here, as appointed by the moderator, but seems like he has a bunch of competition.

If we have at least three, then rifle isn't even amongst the top five when it comes to prominent posters, which sucks since there's only about a dozen of us.
 
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MichiganHerd said:
How many doctors do we have on this forum?

Doc Fungus is the surgeon general here, as appointed by the moderator, but seems like he has a bunch of competition.

If we have at least three, then rifle isn't even amongst the top five when it comes to prominent posters, which sucks since there's only about a dozen of us.
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Cunnilingus already referred to me as the "unicorn," so I still have the title . . . and I don't have to pay medical school student debt nor malpractice insurance.
 
-CarlHungus- said:
You'd know better than I, but I'd bet in (?many?) American ER's he gets a CT of his chest and I don't blame the docs for "over" ordering those things.

Though with recent respiratory illness easy to think he had pleurisy or pneumonia or whatever. So it doesn't seem egregious to miss this. Sometimes bad sh*t just happens.
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I sure wouldn’t know!

herdfan429 said:
You think that’s gross but showing porn to third graders is ok?! It’s anecdotal evidence about an issue that was being discussed. No one is claiming that he did from the shot. It was a story about a younger person dying which doesn’t happen usually.
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I never said showing porn to third graders was ok, not that that is relevant to this conversation at all. I said you need to have the sex talk before that because 3rd grade is when kids start finding porn and if you want any say in your child’s education on sex you need to preempt that.

Here’s my issue with this sort of anecdotal thing being brought up at all. A lot of people have an idea that the vaccine causes young people to die. That’s definitely worth studying. But even if you can show that people who had the shot have an X% increases chance of dying over pre-Covid, you’d also need to show that that increase is more than the increase you get from having Covid in the first place. Or a combination. Covid ****s with our bodies. If the vaccine ****s with our body in a lesser way and also keeps future infections of Covid from ****ing with our bodies as badly then it’s still a net positive.

But that is a big complicated question that needs studies done. And when people have inaccurate anecdotal evidence it leads them to false conclusions. Nobody remembers when it comes out that oh, this didn’t actually have anything to do with Covid. They just add it to the pile of anecdotal evidence there is a problem in their mind and it never leaves.

That isn’t limited to Covid or the vaccine, it’s a very annoying to me thing that pops up a lot.
 
HerdandHokies said:
I sure wouldn’t know!


I never said showing porn to third graders was ok, not that that is relevant to this conversation at all. I said you need to have the sex talk before that because 3rd grade is when kids start finding porn and if you want any say in your child’s education on sex you need to preempt that.

Here’s my issue with this sort of anecdotal thing being brought up at all. A lot of people have an idea that the vaccine causes young people to die. That’s definitely worth studying. But even if you can show that people who had the shot have an X% increases chance of dying over pre-Covid, you’d also need to show that that increase is more than the increase you get from having Covid in the first place. Or a combination. Covid ****s with our bodies. If the vaccine ****s with our body in a lesser way and also keeps future infections of Covid from ****ing with our bodies as badly then it’s still a net positive.

But that is a big complicated question that needs studies done. And when people have inaccurate anecdotal evidence it leads them to false conclusions. Nobody remembers when it comes out that oh, this didn’t actually have anything to do with Covid. They just add it to the pile of anecdotal evidence there is a problem in their mind and it never leaves.

That isn’t limited to Covid or the vaccine, it’s a very annoying to me thing that pops up a lot.
Click to expand...

Sorry - I meant to quote the @marshallisqbu post (re: thoracic aneurism).
 
HerdandHokies said:
I sure wouldn’t know!


I never said showing porn to third graders was ok, not that that is relevant to this conversation at all. I said you need to have the sex talk before that because 3rd grade is when kids start finding porn and if you want any say in your child’s education on sex you need to preempt that.

Here’s my issue with this sort of anecdotal thing being brought up at all. A lot of people have an idea that the vaccine causes young people to die. That’s definitely worth studying. But even if you can show that people who had the shot have an X% increases chance of dying over pre-Covid, you’d also need to show that that increase is more than the increase you get from having Covid in the first place. Or a combination. Covid ****s with our bodies. If the vaccine ****s with our body in a lesser way and also keeps future infections of Covid from ****ing with our bodies as badly then it’s still a net positive.

But that is a big complicated question that needs studies done. And when people have inaccurate anecdotal evidence it leads them to false conclusions. Nobody remembers when it comes out that oh, this didn’t actually have anything to do with Covid. They just add it to the pile of anecdotal evidence there is a problem in their mind and it never leaves.

That isn’t limited to Covid or the vaccine, it’s a very annoying to me thing that pops up a lot.
Click to expand...

The studies that need to be done are called randomzed controlled studies....you know ones we almsot always demand to get FDA approval.

Instead of actually demanding Pfizer or Moderna run them for bosters and yearly vax's, we just gave them a pass. Same with paxlovid. We have nothing randomized (yet - the UK is running it) that says paxlovid helps in vax'd.

It is criminal that we have all these recommendatiosn and mandates without those studies.
 
-CarlHungus- said:
The studies that need to be done are called randomzed controlled studies....you know ones we almsot always demand to get FDA approval.

Instead of actually demanding Pfizer or Moderna run them for bosters and yearly vax's, we just gave them a pass. Same with paxlovid. We have nothing randomized (yet - the UK is running it) that says paxlovid helps in vax'd.

It is criminal that we have all these recommendatiosn and mandates without those studies.
Click to expand...
My (vaccinated) step-dad has Covid. His gp is his friend and despite his symptoms of a sore throat and lethargy, prescribed him Paxlovid. He called me and asked if he should take it and I told him absolutely not, to treat his symptoms with proven therapeutics and rest.

It’s just unbelievable that doctors are prescribing these unproven, experimental medicines to treat mild illness.
 
murox said:
My (vaccinated) step-dad has Covid. His gp is his friend and despite his symptoms of a sore throat and lethargy, prescribed him Paxlovid. He called me and asked if he should take it and I told him absolutely not, to treat his symptoms with proven therapeutics and rest.

It’s just unbelievable that doctors are prescribing these unproven, experimental medicines to treat mild illness.
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It may very well work, we just don’t know it. And rebound is real from it (I believe Fauci had rebound).

The UK trial should be completed soon.

I don’t use it in vax’d for now.

Here’s the problem- docs don’t have time to read the primary literature. They go on guidelines. Who writes the guidelines? A regulatory captured CDC and FDA . They don’t give paxlovid in many other developed countries. They’re all reading the same data .
 
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-CarlHungus- said:
It may very well work, we just don’t know it. And rebound is real from it (I believe Fauci had rebound).

The UK trial should be completed soon.

I don’t use it in vax’d for now.

Here’s the problem- docs don’t have time to read the primary literature. They go on guidelines. Who writes the guidelines? A regulatory captured CDC and FDA . They don’t give paxlovid in many other developed countries. They’re all reading the same data .
Click to expand...
Also this is a symptom of loss of public trust.

Peopel don’t usually ask their relatives about health stuff after a docs recs. Right or wrong, trust has been lost.

Instead of having humility about unknowns the CDC doubled down. It’s ok to say mistakes were made .
 
riflearm2 said:
Cunnilingus already referred to me as the "unicorn," so I still have the title . . . and I don't have to pay medical school student debt nor malpractice insurance.
Click to expand...

I think he was talking about how everything you claim to be is imaginary, just like a unicorn.
 
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-CarlHungus- said:
It may very well work, we just don’t know it. And rebound is real from it (I believe Fauci had rebound).

The UK trial should be completed soon.

I don’t use it in vax’d for now.

Here’s the problem- docs don’t have time to read the primary literature. They go on guidelines. Who writes the guidelines? A regulatory captured CDC and FDA . They don’t give paxlovid in many other developed countries. They’re all reading the same data .
Click to expand...
Well, he did watch his lifelong friend die recently immediately post-vax, so his trust in the medical establishment is completely lost.

Also, Berenson has more info on the soccer journalist:

 
Im not a pathologist but I would think you would see arterits on the autopsy but maybe not. They may not have done that sort of microscopic analysis (?yet?).

Plus I think in those reports the arteritis was not long after vaccine. I presume he didn’t have a recent vax…though who knows. You

Either way it’s hard to speculate. But it’s in the Overton window I think. Certainly rare to see this type of death in what looks like a reasonably healthy dude of his age .
 
marshallisqbu said:
Sounds like he died from a ruptured AAA. Unruptured ones are most commonly dx on ct abdomen pelvis incidentally when we are looking for something else. Ruptured ones are most commonly dx as his was via autopsy.
I have had maybe 3-4 ruptured ones present to me in Ed in my career, and those are usually dx with bedside ultrasound showing blood in the belly in a patient with abd pain distension and or shock. Occasionally they will bleed retroperitonally and wall off and live long enough to get to me. Good thing for most is that this is a death from hemorrhage very quickly.

Risk factors are atherosclerosis, smoking, and age.
Click to expand...
Wut….

“Hey siri, put this in Wayne county terms for me”
 
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