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Mush, we won't sent Patriot Missle Systems to Ukraine

i am herdman

i am herdman

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By Elsa Maishman
BBC News

The US is planning to send Patriot air defence missiles to Ukraine, US media reports say.
President Joe Biden is likely to announce the move this week, according to unnamed officials.
Ukraine has been requesting further air defence support for some time, as Russian attacks have continued to kill civilians and cause major blackouts.
Patriot is one of the most advanced US air defence systems but supplies to Ukraine are likely to be limited.


www.bbc.com

Ukraine War: US planning to send Patriot air defence missiles

The expensive air defence system would be a huge boost to Ukraine, but supplies will be limited.
www.bbc.com www.bbc.com
 
Sounds like some Ukrainians had a very nice vacation to a US military base where they learned how to use it, seeing as that was previously the hold up.
 
HerdandHokies said:
Sounds like some Ukrainians had a very nice vacation to a US military base where they learned how to use it, seeing as that was previously the hold up.
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hahaha, he didn't want to send them originally because it was seen as an escalation. He said we were not sending them.

I am sure the Ukrainians are all there by themselves with no US guidance on anything.

How many billions deep are we in this thing?
 
It was an escalation because it would’ve required American boots on the ground to operate them. Presumably they’ve found a way around that now.
 
HerdandHokies said:
It was an escalation because it would’ve required American boots on the ground to operate them. Presumably they’ve found a way around that now.
Click to expand...
Exactly how many troops did we train - from what I'm reading it takes 90+ highly trained individuals to operate just one of them.
 
SamSwimmer said:
Exactly how many troops did we train - from what I'm reading it takes 90+ highly trained individuals to operate just one of them.
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Unless we’re putting Americans in Ukraine, which I seriously doubt, I would guess some multiple of 90.
 
HerdandHokies said:
Unless we’re putting Americans in Ukraine, which I seriously doubt, I would guess some multiple of 90.
Click to expand...

There's no way we don't already have units in Ukraine.

I mean we're not sending a brigade out there but I'd think we'd have 50-100 people there.

maybe not though. I don't know. Probably high risk if they get captured to escalate things. I assumed we had special forces there incognito though.

@i am herdman - what do you think?
 
i am herdman said:
By Elsa Maishman
BBC News

The US is planning to send Patriot air defence missiles to Ukraine, US media reports say.
President Joe Biden is likely to announce the move this week, according to unnamed officials.
Ukraine has been requesting further air defence support for some time, as Russian attacks have continued to kill civilians and cause major blackouts.
Patriot is one of the most advanced US air defence systems but supplies to Ukraine are likely to be limited.


www.bbc.com

Ukraine War: US planning to send Patriot air defence missiles

The expensive air defence system would be a huge boost to Ukraine, but supplies will be limited.
www.bbc.com www.bbc.com
Click to expand...
The dude he just let out for Griner probably arranged that.
 
HerdandHokies said:
Unless we’re putting Americans in Ukraine, which I seriously doubt, I would guess some multiple of 90.
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So we’re pulling Ukraine troops out in multiples of 90 during a war to train them? You seriously think we don’t have boots on the ground in-country?
 
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SamSwimmer said:
So we’re pulling Ukraine troops out in multiples of 90 during a war to train them? You seriously think we don’t have boots on the ground in-country?
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The UK trained 6000 so yeah I would say a couple hundred is pretty plausible.

I don’t know if we do or don’t but if we do they’re not in literally the first place you’d look; standing around a Patriot Missile System.
 
HerdandHokies said:
It was an escalation because it would’ve required American boots on the ground to operate them. Presumably they’ve found a way around that now.
Click to expand...
He originally viewed it as escalation because what type weapon system it is.
 
-CarlHungus- said:
There's no way we don't already have units in Ukraine.

I mean we're not sending a brigade out there but I'd think we'd have 50-100 people there.

maybe not though. I don't know. Probably high risk if they get captured to escalate things. I assumed we had special forces there incognito though.

@i am herdman - what do you think?
Click to expand...
I would guess your first sentence is correct.
 
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i am herdman said:
He originally viewed it as escalation because what type weapon system it is.
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It’s still an escalation, but I have to think the biggest issue would be openly having troops there. Thats a bigger escalation than anything.

This whole war, and really modern warfare in general when a nuclear state is involved, is just bizarre. Ukraine is in full on survival mode and getting invaded, bombed to hell and back, etc but can’t strike at Russia itself because Russia has nukes. It’s a weird little 3/4 war that I’m shocked has kept it’s lid on as well as it has.
 
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i am herdman said:
I would guess your first sentence is correct.
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Doc,

My guess is as with many places of interest we likely have some folks on the ground. Not regular units, but like special ops of some sort from one units or group or another, advisors etc. Maybe not directly engaged but for training, observation, and helping Ukraine with command and control decisions. There are also ways to get other folks in there where it can be denied if caught or whatever. But, yehh we probably have some folks there. That is just a guess. We also seem to throughout history.
 
i am herdman said:
Doc,

My guess is as with many places of interest we likely have some folks on the ground. Not regular units, but like special ops of some sort from one units or group or another, advisors etc. Maybe not directly engaged but for training, observation, and helping Ukraine with command and control decisions. There are also ways to get other folks in there where it can be denied if caught or whatever. But, yehh we probably have some folks there. That is just a guess. We also seem to throughout history.
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That's what I was thinking.

It seems crazy to send literal dozens of billions over there and not at least have a few sets of eyes on the actual on the grond situation.

Though I wouldn't be shocked either way ... not exactly like we're doing an audit of the cash outflows.
 
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-CarlHungus- said:
That's what I was thinking.

It seems crazy to send literal dozens of billions over there and not at least have a few sets of eyes on the actual on the grond situation.

Though I wouldn't be shocked either way ... not exactly like we're doing an audit of the cash outflows.
Click to expand...
I am guessing we have a lot of eyes in the sky that can watch and advise as well. We want to know Russian tactics as well. Also, to help use for advising the Ukrainians. But, yehh knowing us we have people over there as well.

My understanding from reading is that the Patriots sent over there have been modified to reduce range. We don't want trigger happy Zelensky launching one deep into Russia. Be interesting to see if the Russians try to take one out. My guess is if they tried to get near it physically we have plan to blow it in place some way or I would hope so. We don't need them or the Chi Comms getting their hands on it.

What's also interesting and probably some folks are not saying is that with any piece of equipment or machinery you need maintenance and parts and ability to fix it. I am guessing we have a plan for that as well.
 
We’ve sold the Patriot systems to enough places that I imagine China and Russia have gotten pretty good intel on them already. Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Israel, Jordan, Taiwan, Japan, not to mention half of Europe.
 
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HerdandHokies said:
We’ve sold the Patriot systems to enough places that I imagine China and Russia have gotten pretty good intel on them already. Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Israel, Jordan, Taiwan, Japan, not to mention half of Europe.
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Maybe, but i am not sure they have their hands on one.

Oh, Mush the flip flopper.

Good thing he sat around for a year and watched the Russians build up about 8 divisions on the Ukraine border.

What a fleecing of America.
 
We have thousands of troops right on the border of Ukraine "training." Hell, if we weren't sneaking squads into Ukraine I would more shocked than if we were.
 
SamSwimmer said:
You don't believe we have troops on the border or that we're running ops into Ukraine?
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I don't believe conventional troops are are ruining missions in Ukriane. I have already told Doc that we likely have special operations troops or others doing things there.

Yes conventional troops are in Poland and other areas. That's happened for awhile.
 
i am herdman said:
I don't believe conventional troops are are ruining missions in Ukriane. I have already told Doc that we likely have special operations troops or others doing things there.

Yes conventional troops are in Poland and other areas. That's happened for awhile.
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By "sneaking squads" & "running ops" I thought it was implied we're not doing big, conventional operations.
 
The Dod said this summer it was against Patriot missiles being in Ukriane because it is would take US troops operating and maintaining them. By December Mush and they chang their mind.
 
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SamSwimmer said:
By "sneaking squads" & "running ops" I thought it was implied we're not doing big, conventional operations.
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Yep. I would say we have people doing that.

It is all a big money laundering scam ansnto cover for politicians.

We going to send billions forever?

The American people need to wake up
 
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i am herdman said:
The Dod sais this summer it waa against Patriot missiles being in Ukriane because it is would take US troops operating and maintaining them. By December Mush ams rhey chang their mind.
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That timeline adds up pretty well with us training Ukrainian troops to run it.
 
HerdandHokies said:
That timeline adds up pretty well with us training Ukrainian troops to run it.
Click to expand...
Flip Flop Flip Flop

Maybe Mush should have show some nutsack when the Russians were lining 100,000 troops up for 12 to 18 months and we might not be where we are at.

Also, a big lie about how Russia will collapse economically, the Russian Rubble has rebounded. Their economy is doing ok. THey are not starved for groceries. Meanwhile we are trying to tank our economy and our inflation rate is high because Mush brain won't ramp up domestic oil production. We are tanking our economy and the middle and lower class are paying for it to cover up what has been going in UKraine for years and some pie in the sky dream that we will all be driving electric cars next week.
 
Ukraine is under heavier attack from the air, using aircraft. Russia running the planes out of Belarus.
 
Saying you’re not sending Patriot missiles because you won’t put American boots on the ground, then training Ukrainian forces on how to use them, then sending them isn’t a flip flop. It’s just not openly telegraphing our every move to Russia months ahead of time.

And you know this. If it were Trump doing this you would get it.

And we did send a lot of support before the invasion. Hundreds of millions of dollars of military aid. Intel. Threats to sanction Russia. You didn’t want us to threaten a shooting war with Russia and neither did I.

Biden has played Ukraine about as well as it could’ve been played.
 
HerdandHokies said:
Saying you’re not sending Patriot missiles because you won’t put American boots on the ground, then training Ukrainian forces on how to use them, then sending them isn’t a flip flop. It’s just not openly telegraphing our every move to Russia months ahead of time.

And you know this. If it were Trump doing this you would get it.

And we did send a lot of support before the invasion. Hundreds of millions of dollars of military aid. Intel. Threats to sanction Russia. You didn’t want us to threaten a shooting war with Russia and neither did I.

Biden has played Ukraine about as well as it could’ve been played.
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If Trump were doing it? Trump didn't. In fact, he warned Europe that several of their moves would come back to bite them. And saying Biden played Ukraine well - Zelensky himself was publicly stating his actions shortly before the war was actually exacerbating the situation.
 
HerdandHokies said:
Saying you’re not sending Patriot missiles because you won’t put American boots on the ground, then training Ukrainian forces on how to use them, then sending them isn’t a flip flop. It’s just not openly telegraphing our every move to Russia months ahead of time.

And you know this. If it were Trump doing this you would get it.

And we did send a lot of support before the invasion. Hundreds of millions of dollars of military aid. Intel. Threats to sanction Russia. You didn’t want us to threaten a shooting war with Russia and neither did I.

Biden has played Ukraine about as well as it could’ve been played.
Click to expand...
No he didn't. They massed up 6 divisions before any of ehat you mention took place.

Then we were scrambling because he enough in Belarus and Ukriane border if they would have steam rolled them he theoretically could have taken half of Poland.

Our admin literally sat there and watched it build up for months.
 
i am herdman said:
No he didn't. They massed up 6 divisions before any of ehat you mention took place.

Then we were scrambling because he enough in Belarus and Ukriane border if they would have steam rolled them he theoretically could have taken half of Poland.

Our admin literally sat there and watched it build up for months.
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so Biden didn’t do enough while

SamSwimmer said:
This was one of them...
www.bbc.com

Ukraine crisis: Don't create panic, Zelensky tells West

President Volodymyr Zelensky says warnings of a Russian invasion are putting the economy at risk.
www.bbc.com www.bbc.com
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Also biden did too much.

Yeah, it’s a super fair standard you all are holding him against. Not prejudged at all.
 
HerdandHokies said:
so Biden didn’t do enough while


Also biden did too much.

Yeah, it’s a super fair standard you all are holding him against. Not prejudged at all.
Click to expand...
Well Mush is one reason thr invasion took place..so he gets some blame

He is a feeble Mush brain and remember Afghanistan and consequences? Throw in our own energy policy and bam.
 
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