Myth of Pristine Amazonian Rainforests
- Thread starter wvkeeper(HN)
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If you find this interesting you should read 1491 by Charles Mann. The Amazon was basically a well maintained gigantic garden with large towns spotted throughout. Extremely interesting stuff.
I read the book 1493 by Charles Mann this summer. The notion that Pre-Columbian America was a land of people that tread lightly on the environment and was in a natural and pristine state pre 1492 was totally debunked. The truth of it was that the Americas hosted civilizations that left a tremendous footprint on the land. The practice of slash and burn agriculture within the rain forests as well as the manipulation of the land and water was common practice centuries before Columbus and Europeans arrived. The portrayal that the ecological damage being done in the name of exploitation began with the arrival of Europeans arrived after 1492 is not accurate at all.
1493 I didn't like quite as much because it seemed to go really deep into topics that were relevant but not particularly interesting to me. "There are two types of mosquitos, one from this place and one from another" probably could have replaced 20 pages of that book. It wasn't bad and the interesting parts were very interesting, he just got bogged down in the details a few times.
wait a minute..............you mean to tell me humans basically destroyed the rain forest centuries ago.............and we are still here to discuss it??? You mean the planet has the power and capacity to rejuvenate despite man's savage effort at plundering this innocent planet??
Yes, lets ignore the details of how this relates to the current buffoonery of man made climate change propaganda and return our thoughts to the new world religion that states man actually has power over the climate. Lets pray to the Sun God to power our panels and worship the God of Wind so that our turbines will never stop spinning.
Yes, lets ignore the details of how this relates to the current buffoonery of man made climate change propaganda and return our thoughts to the new world religion that states man actually has power over the climate. Lets pray to the Sun God to power our panels and worship the God of Wind so that our turbines will never stop spinning.
They didn't destroy it, they changed it into a gigantic garden with tons of food people could eat.
Really? You believe in "Slash and burn" technique?
http://www.ecologic.org/actions-issues/challenges/slash-burn-agriculture/
To my knowledge that was something they did in North America, not so much South, where you were referring to.
So people "changed" a rainforest into farmland (deforestation) and that didnt irreparably destroy the planet centuries ago............unlike what environmental evangelists claim(ed) guarantees our impending doom (within a year or so)??
I am reminded of this......
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/2006-al-gore-does-sundance/
I am reminded of this......
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/2006-al-gore-does-sundance/
I think slash and burn did go on in the Amazons before Columbus. The soil was notoriously poor and this helped put carbon into it to allow agricultural productivity for large civilizations. This from Mongabay...
Black earth
The best explanation for this kind of botanical record is the past creation and use of terra preta do indio, meaning “Indian black earth” in Portuguese. This unique, mineral-rich soil was purposely created by pre-Columbian people through a process of adding charcoal and animal bones to regular soil to create a highly fertile hybrid, ideal for agriculture. Beyond the Amazon’s notorious reputation for thin and poor-quality soil, terra preta provided unprecedented life and bounty for its inhabitants.
Charcoal is the essential ingredient of terra preta, which gives the soil a more substantial quality as organic matter latches on to the compounds within it through oxidation, retaining moisture and nutrients. Despite these benefits, charcoal lacks substantial nutrients on its own, so Indians enriched the soil with organic waste like the bones of turtles, fish and birds. Higher quantities of calcium, nitrogen, phosphorus and sulfur exist more in terra preta than is found in typical earth. If managed well, this matter can avoid exhaustion from agricultural stress far longer than regular soil. Soil ecologists believe they may be able to replicate terra preta to convert thin tropical soil into rich, substantial, sustaining and possibly self-replicating earth.
Scientists believe terra preta was created through a process one specialist calls the “slash-and-char” method. Essentially, instead of completely burning trees to ash, pre-Columbian farmers merely smoldered organic matter to form charcoal, and then stirred the charcoal into the soil. The added benefit of this method was that far less carbon was released into the air than now common slash-and-burn method. Carbon emissions, or rather an imbalance of carbon emissions, has a well-recognized negative effect on forests, so this ancient method was truly efficient and environmentally sensitive. Charcoal is capable of retaining its carbon in the soil for close to fifty thousand years.
Black earth
The best explanation for this kind of botanical record is the past creation and use of terra preta do indio, meaning “Indian black earth” in Portuguese. This unique, mineral-rich soil was purposely created by pre-Columbian people through a process of adding charcoal and animal bones to regular soil to create a highly fertile hybrid, ideal for agriculture. Beyond the Amazon’s notorious reputation for thin and poor-quality soil, terra preta provided unprecedented life and bounty for its inhabitants.
Charcoal is the essential ingredient of terra preta, which gives the soil a more substantial quality as organic matter latches on to the compounds within it through oxidation, retaining moisture and nutrients. Despite these benefits, charcoal lacks substantial nutrients on its own, so Indians enriched the soil with organic waste like the bones of turtles, fish and birds. Higher quantities of calcium, nitrogen, phosphorus and sulfur exist more in terra preta than is found in typical earth. If managed well, this matter can avoid exhaustion from agricultural stress far longer than regular soil. Soil ecologists believe they may be able to replicate terra preta to convert thin tropical soil into rich, substantial, sustaining and possibly self-replicating earth.
Scientists believe terra preta was created through a process one specialist calls the “slash-and-char” method. Essentially, instead of completely burning trees to ash, pre-Columbian farmers merely smoldered organic matter to form charcoal, and then stirred the charcoal into the soil. The added benefit of this method was that far less carbon was released into the air than now common slash-and-burn method. Carbon emissions, or rather an imbalance of carbon emissions, has a well-recognized negative effect on forests, so this ancient method was truly efficient and environmentally sensitive. Charcoal is capable of retaining its carbon in the soil for close to fifty thousand years.
They didn't deforest as much as plant different types of trees etc. If your point is that people have always impacted the environment you're definitely right, although there is are a few orders of magnitude between our ability to do it quickly and anybody in the 1300s.
GK, interesting; I hadn't seen that it was done down there pre-contact.
No. Not really. It appears they did clear cut and burn precious rainforests that "cant be replaced"...but evidently did recover......lets just keep ignoring those boring little facts.
Sure humans impact the environment. A human fart impacts the environment in a small room, which is about the same equivalent as most of humanity's effects on climate throughout earth's existence.
The bunk, junk science that suggests that this is a frail planet whose environment is irreparably damaged resulting in climate alteration simply because of human existence is one of the biggest frauds ever.
Who said it couldn't be replaced Raleigh? Of course rainforests grow back. If you visit a Mayan or Aztec site, they all had to be recovered from a rainforest/jungle that completely devoured it within a century after being abandon.
But your political leanings are making you believe that you've scored a victory here. You haven't. The slash and burn methods used by Native Americans was brilliant in context to the science they had available at the time. They were able to feed massive civilizations from impotent soil. Our predecessors don't get enough credit. But they definitely had a negative influence on the environment.
But how does their culpability...one that is morally acceptable in the age they lived...relieve us from our present need to be cautious? The population has increased a little since then. In addition to the clearing of the rain forests today, we are pumping so much more carbon dioxide into the air then we did centuries ago.
The only thing that this proves is that the Native Americans didn't live lightly on the land. It basically dispels Hollywood and literature. But it certainly doesn't prove that modern society can continue life as usual without consequences.
But your political leanings are making you believe that you've scored a victory here. You haven't. The slash and burn methods used by Native Americans was brilliant in context to the science they had available at the time. They were able to feed massive civilizations from impotent soil. Our predecessors don't get enough credit. But they definitely had a negative influence on the environment.
But how does their culpability...one that is morally acceptable in the age they lived...relieve us from our present need to be cautious? The population has increased a little since then. In addition to the clearing of the rain forests today, we are pumping so much more carbon dioxide into the air then we did centuries ago.
The only thing that this proves is that the Native Americans didn't live lightly on the land. It basically dispels Hollywood and literature. But it certainly doesn't prove that modern society can continue life as usual without consequences.
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Slash and burn works if you have a small enough population relative to how much land is available that the first section you burned is regenerated before you get to the last section. You could do slash and burn for an eternity if that were the case. If you have too many people, though, then eventually you run out of land and everyone that doesn't find other ways to eat starves to death.
I don't know what any of that has to do with "permanently" knocking back rain forests to build cattle ranches, but there you go.
I'm not an environmental conservationist. We make changes to our environment all the time that benefit us and we'll keep doing that as long as we want to survive as a species. If cutting down half the Amazon would have no negative repercussions and would help us I'd be all in.
I don't know what any of that has to do with "permanently" knocking back rain forests to build cattle ranches, but there you go.
I'm not an environmental conservationist. We make changes to our environment all the time that benefit us and we'll keep doing that as long as we want to survive as a species. If cutting down half the Amazon would have no negative repercussions and would help us I'd be all in.
Smallpox is a bitch.
The Amazon basin is huge. Freaking huge. There was both civilization and untamed wilds.
Slash and burn works well if you don't have a ton of people to feed. The natives did it here, as did the early settlers. Indiana doesn't have the best soil (outside of the river plains), in fact there was originally a lot of barrens (there is still a very small town here called Central Barren). The Indians and early settlers slashed and burned the shit out of it.
The Amazon basin is huge. Freaking huge. There was both civilization and untamed wilds.
Slash and burn works well if you don't have a ton of people to feed. The natives did it here, as did the early settlers. Indiana doesn't have the best soil (outside of the river plains), in fact there was originally a lot of barrens (there is still a very small town here called Central Barren). The Indians and early settlers slashed and burned the shit out of it.
That fact that it dispels "Hollywood and Literature" is the point. Most of environmental policy is based on the same "Hollywood and literature" that is being dispelled. Fear and Fabrication.
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