Paul Ryan: Lying, or growing a heart?

[extragreen]

"There was a time when I would talk about a difference between 'makers' and 'takers' in our country, referring to people who accepted government benefits. But as I spent more time listening, and really learning the root causes of poverty, I realized I was wrong. 'Takers' wasn’t how to refer to a single mom stuck in a poverty trap, just trying to take care of her family. Most people don't want to be dependent. And to label a whole group of Americans that way was wrong. I shouldn’t castigate a large group of Americans to make a point.

"So I stopped thinking about it that way—and talking about it that way. But I didn’t come out and say all this to be politically correct. I was just wrong."

https://sojo.net/articles/watch-paul-ryan-publicly-repents-past-comments-about-poor

 

[Walden Pond]

Lying in an attempt to distance himself from Romney's 47% comment. Angling for the rigged convention nomination.

Hillary would trounce him, and I'd be glad. Might as well have the real thing instead of some turncoat trying to be the lite version of her.

 

[Raoul Duke MU]

He's full of shit.

 

[Rock98Dog]

I wonder if he would still call some folks takers if he spent some time in southern WV and eastern KY?

 

[dherd]

POLITICAL POSTURING.

"WHAT YOU DO, SPEAKS SO LOUDLY, THAT I CANNOT HEAR WHAT YOU SAY" - JACK LENGYEL.

 

[Walden Pond]

I wonder if he would still call some folks takers if he spent some time in southern WV and eastern KY?

I know I would. That's about all you can be living in places like that.

The shame of it is they don't seem to enjoy it. They get free country living paid for by people who moved to hustle and bustle to make a buck. I'd be jealous of them if they were enjoying it. Since they're not, I'm not.

Only way you can truly enjoy country living is if you're working hard, living off the land, or if you retire there after a good career somewhere else.

 

[i am herdman]

There are lots of takers in those areas. Some of the best takers.

The government should just pay them to get the hell out of there.

 

[Walden Pond]

If they weren't all tatted up and always blaring that damn Van Halen garbage, they would be a lot better off.

Imagine a place where poor hicks were proud to be poor hicks. I'd have to spend all my days off wherever this is. I've never found it. The places are all poor hicks wishing they were rich Californians. They all want to go to the beach or somewhere big and expensive.

They don't appreciate what they've got, a good country place away from crowds full of fat half naked people in the sun.

 

[sistersville]

Im proud of lawrence County. Proud of all the good musicians we have here. A whole lot you have never heard of. A friend of mine broke his back in two places. Both times falling off a dozer. They are dangerous after it rains very slick. My friend is probably an inch shorter because of his back. He couldnt afford to take work off so he toughed it out. Something we all did. After 4 years of fighting he gets 20000 a month and 1000 for his 8 year old son until he reaches 18. He is in horrible shape. Wont go in store, He cant take the walking and you couldnt pay him enough to ride one of those electric carts.

 

[i am herdman]

Im proud of lawrence County. Proud of all the good musicians we have here. A whole lot you have never heard of. A friend of mine broke his back in two places. Both times falling off a dozer. They are dangerous after it rains very slick. My friend is probably an inch shorter because of his back. He couldnt afford to take work off so he toughed it out. Something we all did. After 4 years of fighting he gets 20000 a month and 1000 for his 8 year old son until he reaches 18. He is in horrible shape. Wont go in store, He cant take the walking and you couldnt pay him enough to ride one of those electric carts.

Sisters I saw a guy fall off a dozer at a mine one day. Years ago. It was a big Komatsu dozer. When he hit I thought he was dead. A couple of seconds after he hit, he moaned and tried to get up. He was up near the windshield and when he fell he tried to grab onto the windshield wipers and sliced his hands open as well. Didn't break his back but he was hurting and they hauled him out in an ambulance. He was ok though. Crack a rib or two. He was lucky. I thought it killed him.

 

[sistersville]

He was back to work in no time.Miners were dedicated. Obama finished miners off. He like china's coal better. It doesn't cause pollution. Herdman if it was a kamatsu and the size of a few we had he had a far fall.I got my fingers crushed when the driller jacked the drill up on my hand. I had crawled under the drill cause I saw oil spraying. Was balancing myself with my hand when the jack got me. Another driller saw it and ran straight to the driller and had him lift the jack up. Another guy got his car, a VW, and they rushed me to,,,,well this is where it gets good. They had opened a new clinic in warfield. Problem was this clinic didn't see humans. They took me to the vet. Then took me to Paintsville. Two crushed fingers. Got married 2 days later and had a 14 week honeymoon paid. When I got back to work they wrote me up,,unsafe worker. Might sound crazy but it was worth it.

 

[extragreen]

He was back to work in no time.Miners were dedicated. Obama finished miners off. He like china's coal better. It doesn't cause pollution.

Wrong. More mining jobs were lost under Reagan, Bush SR, and Clinton each.

 

[sistersville]

Hush EG. Buddy I worked mountaintop mostly and that has been wiped out by the epa. My best years were under carter and Reagan. I worked under Bush and Clinton but worked more hours and less money but appreciated the work. How you been buddy? I have hardly been here since titm shut down. Just felt like I would get in trouble on the other two board but I like the mods.

 

[extragreen]

I've been blessed and highly favored.

 

[herdfan429]

Wrong. More mining jobs were lost under Reagan, Bush SR, and Clinton each.

He said Obama finished off miners not that he caused more job losses

 

[extragreen]

He said Obama finished off miners not that he caused more job losses

I know what he said. Obama didn't finish off miners either. There's still mining going on. So he couldn't have finished off miners.

 

[herdfan429]

I know what he said. Obama didn't finish off miners either. There's still mining going on. So he couldn't have finished off miners.

Yet you still came back with a reply that had no bearing on what he said

 

[extragreen]

Yet you still came back with a reply that had no bearing on what he said

Whether sisters meant Obama has seen more loss of coal mining jobs, or that Obama has ended coal mining jobs, my answer had bearing and was correct. He was.....wrong.

 

[herdfan429]

Whether sisters meant Obama has seen more loss of coal mining jobs, or that Obama has ended coal mining jobs, my answer had bearing and was correct. He was.....wrong.

Yes but the coal mining jobs part had no bearing on convo

 

[extragreen]

Yes but the coal mining jobs part had no bearing on convo

Then he shouldn't have brought it up. But he did. I corrected it.

 

[Rock98Dog]

Wrong. More mining jobs were lost under Reagan, Bush SR, and Clinton each.

That is about as misleading a comment as a person can make. Job losses during the periods mentioned were all due to technological advancement, not loss of production. When Reagan took office, annual production was about 800 million short tons per year. When he left office in was right at 1,000 million short tons per year. When GB I left office it was still right at 1,000 million. When Clinton left office it was at 1,100 and when GBII left office it was just under 1,200. Coal production grew under every single President going back to 1960.

The other thing that changed was the shift from subsurface to surface mining. In 1972 subsurface production was passed by surface production for the first time. Surface mining is much more productive and lower costs. Killing surface mining, which is what Obama has been doing for the last 7 years, has killed coal.

Coal would have died at some point anyway, it's old technology, but to act like previous Presidents negatively impacted coal either shows a total lack of knowledge or a need to lie to push an agenda. Of course I remember you being the guy who bragged coal mining jobs increased under Obama back in 2011, so I'm guessing your comments just come from a lack of knowledge. The temporary increase in jobs was a by product of Obama killing strip mining and forcing miners back underground into a more dangerous environment. Yes, some more jobs, but much higher production cost.

 

[extragreen]

Are you seriously saying that no technological improvements in coal mining have been made since the 1980's? Are you saying that the low cost of natural gas isn't the chief reason that coal mining jobs have gone down? Are you saying that the coal seams are as thick and easy to mine as ever? Are you saying there has been no competition from cheaper, low-sulfur coal out West? Of course you're not. You're simply attempting to blame a democrat president for the woes of coal mining employment that started under Reagan nearly 40 years ago.

 

[i am herdman]

Hard to mine coal when you can't get permits. Coal could compete if it could ne mined and used. Also coal in Appalachia could be exported but you can't mine it if you can't get permits


Also Obama stated he wanted to reduce or kill coal.

 

[extragreen]

Explain to us why a company would want a permit when coal miners are being laid off right and left because there's no market for it.

 

[i am herdman]

There is a market for it. But the government manipulated and regulated that market.

 

[extragreen]

There is a market for it. But the government manipulated and regulated that market.

Absolutely, the government invented and made available less expensive and cleaner burning natural gas. See, they did something good.

 

[i am herdman]

Absolutely, the government invented and made available less expensive and cleaner burning natural gas. See, they did something good.

Do you think coal just suddenly died? Who required all the "clean" energy and restrictions on power plants?

 

[Rock98Dog]

Are you seriously saying that no technological improvements in coal mining have been made since the 1980's? Are you saying that the low cost of natural gas isn't the chief reason that coal mining jobs have gone down? Are you saying that the coal seams are as thick and easy to mine as ever? Are you saying there has been no competition from cheaper, low-sulfur coal out West? Of course you're not. You're simply attempting to blame a democrat president for the woes of coal mining employment that started under Reagan nearly 40 years ago.

Coal production increased right up until the time Obama took office in 2009, so no, there have been no meaningful tech advances in mining since then.

Second, the numbers I am discussing are US coal production, so whether it's Appalachian, Illinois Basin, or Powder River does not matter. Coal right now at $35/ton is a cheaper alternative to natural gas even with natural gas prices depressed due to the stagnant Obama economy. If it is the cheapest source, why has the mining of it not increased?

 

[extragreen]

Coal production increased right up until the time Obama took office in 2009, so no, there have been no meaningful tech advances in mining since then.

Second, the numbers I am discussing are US coal production, so whether it's Appalachian, Illinois Basin, or Powder River does not matter. Coal right now at $35/ton is a cheaper alternative to natural gas even with natural gas prices depressed due to the stagnant Obama economy. If it is the cheapest source, why has the mining of it not increased?

Right up until 2009. Just think how bad it would have been if there had been a Great Recession worldwide starting just before then. For coal to be competitive, the natural gas prices have to be around $4 per mmbtu, it's trading below $3. The gas prices are low do to the drilling boom. I'm guessing you're going to blame low gas prices at the pump on the obama epa also. And just so you'll know, that stagnant obama economy looks a lot better than what bush left us with.

 

[extragreen]

Do you think coal just suddenly died? Who required all the "clean" energy and restrictions on power plants?

No, I don't think that, because it didn't just suddenly die. It's still providing about the same amount of electric generation as natural gas.

 

[Rock98Dog]

% of electric generation from coal

1981 = 52.1%
1996 = 52.7%
2008 = 49.1%
2014 = 39%
Projected 2015 final number = 34%

So essentially a 30% reduction in 7 years when the number had been essentially stable for the last 40 years. "You can build a new coal fired plant, but if you do we'll bankrupt you."

The power industry is building gas fired plants not because it's the best thing for them, but because regulations put in place by the Obama administration made it economically impossible to update their coal infrastructure for power generation.

 

[extragreen]

All the numbers you want to throw out there won't offset the fact that natural gas is cheaper and cleaner. The loss of electricity production from coal correlates with the spike in natural gas production. Coal fired power has been decreasing from at least as far back as 2007. Furthermore, the coal fired power plants had somewhere around 30 years to come up with a way to burn clean coal. Maybe they'll get serious now.

 

[i am herdman]

% of electric generation from coal

1981 = 52.1%
1996 = 52.7%
2008 = 49.1%
2014 = 39%
Projected 2015 final number = 34%

So essentially a 30% reduction in 7 years when the number had been essentially stable for the last 40 years. "You can build a new coal fired plant, but if you do we'll bankrupt you."

The power industry is building gas fired plants not because it's the best thing for them, but because regulations put in place by the Obama administration made it economically impossible to update their coal infrastructure for power generation.

DING DING DING DING

and you have the winner folks.

Read his last paragraph.

 

[i am herdman]

All the numbers you want to throw out there won't offset the fact that natural gas is cheaper and cleaner. The loss of electricity production from coal correlates with the spike in natural gas production. Coal fired power has been decreasing from at least as far back as 2007. Furthermore, the coal fired power plants had somewhere around 30 years to come up with a way to burn clean coal. Maybe they'll get serious now.

Maybe they will turn everyone's lights off. Then what are the commies going to do? Oh wait, let the government take over the energy sector.

 

[extragreen]

You can move here. Less government regulations.

 

[i am herdman]

You can move here. Less government regulations.

Run by commies. You should like that.

 

[extragreen]

I'm advocating regulated clean air, you're the one that wants to breathe commie air. Move.