I know many of the Bible-thumpers won't agree, and I know they definitely won't agree with his response to the question referenced in the video. But, to me, Pope Francis seems like a genuine good dude. I don't agree with some of his stances on Christianity and what he claims is acceptable, but I can't fault the guy for being as compassionate and caring as he is.
Pope Francis
- Thread starter Y.A.G Si Ye Nots
- Start date
It doesn't matter what the pope says, nor what he includes.
I find it absolutely shocking that a Pope who is a garden variety Leftist from Argentina has some ideas that Rifle and GK agree with.
It’s pretty simple for me. He is big on science. He supports the consensus on global warming. He states that evolution is not inconsistent with creation. He believes that the Big Bang theory doesn’t contradict the notion of a god and even requires it. His rhetoric toward gays is one of tolerance. He believes in elevating the position of women and their roles within the church.
What has turned me off on the church has absolutely nothing to do with the fundamental belief in a God or not. The subordination of women, the hatred of gays, the denial of science in spite of overwhelming evidence...and just an overall mean spiritedness that emanates from believers has become the dominant noise you hear. Just reading this forum over the years shows how hateful even self identified believers can be toward not just non believers but each other.
The pope brings a message of tolerance and scientific enlightenment. Quite frankly it’s more inspiring to me personally than the moron slinging, idiot calling, and lack of respect that comes from most of the “religious” community.
What has turned me off on the church has absolutely nothing to do with the fundamental belief in a God or not. The subordination of women, the hatred of gays, the denial of science in spite of overwhelming evidence...and just an overall mean spiritedness that emanates from believers has become the dominant noise you hear. Just reading this forum over the years shows how hateful even self identified believers can be toward not just non believers but each other.
The pope brings a message of tolerance and scientific enlightenment. Quite frankly it’s more inspiring to me personally than the moron slinging, idiot calling, and lack of respect that comes from most of the “religious” community.
The pope will lie to you. Just like he did in this encounter with the young boy.
It's not anyone's job to be inspired, it is the duty of mankind to fear God and keep his commandments.
But those are all things that summarize true Christianity. Contrary to man's recent editing of Christianity, it is a religion of intolerance, violence, and spite. The Christian god is an egotistical, manipulating, murderous, petty maniac.
I like Francis because I believe he has good intentions and is a good person. But if I were Christian, I would be opposed to many of his teachings.
It starts at page 1 in the Bible and continues pretty much through Revelation. Seriously, EG, no reasonable person can read the Bible and not see the violence, intolerance, and spite shown in it by your god.
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One man's spite is another man's (or in this case God's) legitimate wrath for sin and rebellion.
Keep - I presume you’re not a fan of Adam Hamilton?
I read his “Making Sense of the Bible” and found it compelling. Of course there are counter arguments ...
The tldr version was much of the Bible does not reflect Gods nature , so the genocide etc was man mis interpreting Gods intentions and doing things in his name that weren’t right. The true nature of God is reflected in the teachings of Jesus. He talks a lot about the violence rifle mentions.
GK - id imagine you may find his take appealing- he’s very welcoming but not a prosperity gospel guy or anything. He’s kind of a science guy too.
I read his “Making Sense of the Bible” and found it compelling. Of course there are counter arguments ...
The tldr version was much of the Bible does not reflect Gods nature , so the genocide etc was man mis interpreting Gods intentions and doing things in his name that weren’t right. The true nature of God is reflected in the teachings of Jesus. He talks a lot about the violence rifle mentions.
GK - id imagine you may find his take appealing- he’s very welcoming but not a prosperity gospel guy or anything. He’s kind of a science guy too.
I know of Adam Hamilton's argument and it is not exactly new. Most of the 17th century Diest's made a similar case.
But it requires one to say that when the Bible says, "God told the Israelites to..." that the writers of the Bible were either being intentionally duplicitous or were imbeciles. It also falls into the old Marcionite heresy of the OT God being mean and the NT God being nice.
The Bible is either authoritative or it is not. I see no need to obfuscate the plain reading of the text in order to placate unbelief. It's not like modern man is the first to question the nature and person of the Biblical God.
There is a lot of recency bias and No True Scotsman in Hamilton's book.
I'd much rather deal with an honest atheist than a quisling Christian.
But it requires one to say that when the Bible says, "God told the Israelites to..." that the writers of the Bible were either being intentionally duplicitous or were imbeciles. It also falls into the old Marcionite heresy of the OT God being mean and the NT God being nice.
The Bible is either authoritative or it is not. I see no need to obfuscate the plain reading of the text in order to placate unbelief. It's not like modern man is the first to question the nature and person of the Biblical God.
There is a lot of recency bias and No True Scotsman in Hamilton's book.
I'd much rather deal with an honest atheist than a quisling Christian.
Thanks for the reply, keep. I always appreciate your input (religious or otherwise).
I really wish I could read these books and have a counter point in the margins. I’m easily swayed.
I do have a hard time with some of the passages (ie basically genociding everyone at Jericho , etc).
Apologies for the harsh tone of my reply, didn't mean it to come across like that.
Here is a decent overview of how to understand the Canaanite land clearances for example.
https://www.thegospelcoalition.org/...-god-command-genocide-in-the-old-testament-2/
Here is a decent overview of how to understand the Canaanite land clearances for example.
https://www.thegospelcoalition.org/...-god-command-genocide-in-the-old-testament-2/
I didn’t take it as harsh at all. I understand what you’re saying. Sometimes I read some takes and think - why isn’t this guy/girl just a nice guy atheist - I just don’t see anything resembling what I perceived as a Christian take on it...
Anyway, I like reading people’s takes on all this. I struggle with it at times. I like to see opinions ranging from atheists to Tim Keller or David Platt.
There's no such thing as Christianity in the Bible until you get to the part where Christ came to the earth (New Testament). Since that time, give us the list of the violence, intolerance, and spite shown.
