ADVERTISEMENT

Red Dawson's Book

I

IGot AHerdOn

Silver Buffalo
Gold Member
Mar 9, 2007
1,278
780
113
Ok gentleman, I bought my dad Red Dawson's book for Christmas. He was a student in 1970 and was very interested in reading it.

He has already finished the book and he has a few questions that he wanted me to post to any of you who have also read the book or know anything....

1) Who took it?
2) Why was it taken?
3) Where is it now?
4) When will it be returned?

Obviously, I have no idea what any of this pertains to but my dad was adamant I ask all of you, specifically any of you that have read it, these questions.

My dad will be looking at the board as well. Any of you help me out?
 
I wondered the same thing when I read Red's book. A thorough investigation should be conducted so the truth can be ascertained.
 
I haven't read it......BUT......I don't understand the questions....can you explain more in detail?
 
Unfortunately I can't Always The Herd as dad wants me to read the book and then he says I'll understand. He said "anyone who reads the book should know exactly what I'm talking about"
 
The first I heard of it was in reading his book, BTW, if you haven't read it, you should. I downloaded it the day it was released and read it in one sitting.
 
Red was given the game ball after Xavier win. He donated it to Marshall with stipulation that if they ever didn't want it it was to be returned to him. It was displayed in shewey Building I believe. One day when red was around the football offices the ball was gone. Red then saw the ball in an interview with someone. He confronted them they played dumb. Ball still hasn't been returned
 
I think he is referring to the game ball from the 1971 win against Xavier. Red had it and all of sudden it disappeared from where he displayed the ball. He alluded in the book that he saw a news report on tv about a local business and spotted the ball (in the background) in the office of the business owner. He asked the owner to return the ball but the owner never did. Or at least as of the books publishing.

I want t to know who the MU administrator was that Red spoke of in the book, that the two constantly butted heads and the the administrator was a complete ass. Red never did divulge his name.
Great book by the way.
 
I wonder if Marshall University could apply a little pressure behind the scenes to get this straightened out.

This is so typical of Huntington business though, and that's really, really sad.
 
I would think we could figure it out. It has to be someone affiliated with the 71 team. Name business men in Huntington that were on the 71 team
 
TwolfHerdfan said:
I think he is referring to the game ball from the 1971 win against Xavier. Red had it and all of sudden it disappeared from where he displayed the ball. He alluded in the book that he saw a news report on tv about a local business and spotted the ball (in the background) in the office of the business owner. He asked the owner to return the ball but the owner never did. Or at least as of the books publishing.

I want t to know who the MU administrator was that Red spoke of in the book, that the two constantly butted heads and the the administrator was a complete ass. Red never did divulge his name.
Great book by the way.
Click to expand...

Joe McMullen. He was the AD after the crash. What a pompous a** He was as bush league as they come.
 
Herdmeister said:
Joe McMullen. He was the AD after the crash. What a pompous a** He was as bush league as they come.
Click to expand...
So in one sentence he mentions McMullen then in the next red decides not to mention him by name? I don't buy it being mcmullen
 
Herdmeister said:
Joe McMullen. He was the AD after the crash. What a pompous a** He was as bush league as they come.
Click to expand...


I thought that, but I think it was someone in Old Main. He mentions McMullen a few times and seems to be speaking about a different person when alluding to the verbal confrontations he had with this unnamed administrator. I don't think it was Deadmon. Wonder who other high ranking MU staffers were at the time?
 
TwolfHerdfan said:
I thought that, but I think it was someone in Old Main. He mentions McMullen a few times and seems to be speaking about a different person when alluding to the verbal confrontations he had with this unnamed administrator. I don't think it was Deadmon. Wonder who other high ranking MU staffers were at the time?
Click to expand...

That had authority over Red? None that I know of. Dedmon was gone by the time of the confrontation(s) Red describes, but I can't imagine it would have been the next President (Barker) since he had no history there. I think Ed Starling was there as an ass't AD, but if you ever met Ed, you'd know that there isn't any way he'd confront anyone about anything. Not a nicer man walked this earth. I'm putting my $ on McMullen.
 
Joe McMullen was a pompous ass of the first order. His management style would have been better suited for a maintenance dept. of a 1950's military boarding school.
 
whoever has the ball needs to return it to the Shewey Building or to RED
 
HerdFan73 said:
Even if he thought the statement to be true? I thought libel and slander had to be knowingly false statements.
Click to expand...
Red told us at the QB Club meeting he had said bad things about McMullen. The books co-author told him he could NOT say those things, thus the change to "administrator".
 
Ok, good to know. I felt bad for Red. I would have decked McMullen. Can't see how Red kept composed based on what he wrote in the book.
 
Herdmeister said:
Joe McMullen. He was the AD after the crash. What a pompous a** He was as bush league as they come.
Click to expand...

that is then name that came to my mind immediately. i know for a first hand fact that
red was expected to be named head coach. for months all the assistants were telling recruits he
would be the new head coach. they were telling recruits red was going to install a pro style passing
offense, then, all of a sudden lengyel got the job.

i think that is the real reason red was reluctant to come back in '71 as an assistant.

the only thing is that i am not sure when mcmullen was hired (before or after the lengyel hiring). i know
he was the a.d. when the "young thundering herd" arrived on campus. but, i don't know how long
he had been there at that point.
 
dherd said:
that is then name that came to my mind immediately. i know for a first hand fact that
red was expected to be named head coach. for months all the assistants were telling recruits he
would be the new head coach. they were telling recruits red was going to install a pro style passing
offense, then, all of a sudden lengyel got the job.

i think that is the real reason red was reluctant to come back in '71 as an assistant.

the only thing is that i am not sure when mcmullen was hired (before or after the lengyel hiring). i know
he was the a.d. when the "young thundering herd" arrived on campus. but, i don't know how long
he had been there at that point.
Click to expand...
I'm not sure when he got here either. I know I interviewed with him for a job during basketball season. Not sure if Lengyl was in place then or not.
 
Herdmeister said:
I'm not sure when he got here either. I know I interviewed with him for a job during basketball season. Not sure if Lengyl was in place then or not.
Click to expand...

When he walked in front of the student section at the fieldhouse the students would chant Hoghead, hoghead.
 
Yogiherd said:
When he walked in front of the student section at the fieldhouse the students would chant Hoghead, hoghead.
Click to expand...
For obvious reason

His most prized possession was his Penn State Orange Bowl ring. He obtained it while an asst. football coach at PSU. He showed it to anyone that would look at it.
 
I found Red's new book to be fascinating, and also read it in one sitting. Regarding the lost football, Red indicates that he found it in a stored box after moving to a new house, and after many years, decided to donate it to the athletic department. He gave it to Coach Pruett, I would guess in the late nineties or early 2000's. He noticed it missing in 2006, which would rule out McMullen. Rather than limiting the individual in possession of the ball as just an administrator, he broadened it to include a "former coach, player, or administrator."

My gut reaction as I was reading the book was that it might have been Coach Lengyel, since his involvement with the movie had brought him back to campus, where he undoubtedly might have run across the ball in the trophy case, and maybe asked for it. Red noticed the "lost" ball in the office of the individual as he was being interviewed by a television crew (perhaps promoting the movie).

The other eye opener for me was Red's analysis of the Miami game vs. the Young Herd: he describes Miami's ability to move the ball with their third and fourth stringers. "The result could have been worse but (Coach) Mallory, a class act, tried to keep from running up the score, and was embarrassed afterward that his team scored as many points." This definitely is a different take on that game from the log held perspective of many of us old timers!

He was not as complimentary about Toledo's coach who ordered a fake punt and a long pass for a touchdown as time was expiring that resulted in a 43-0 Toledo win..."I was beyond pissed! How in the hell could a head coach allow his team to run a fake punt with a 36-0 lead, and against a host which had allowed him and his players to be a part of a pregame service (on one year anniversary of crash) in memory of those that had died"? Red pursued him from the press box and "I put a real cussing on him, including calling him a name I won't repeat."

This book is a must read for everyone who loves the Herd!
 
I hesitated to comment on this one but thought I might help out. I do admit that after a lot of years, some things are a little more forgettable and others are very clear.
First, I would guess that there was actually more than one game ball from that game. As far as if Jack had one, he probably did but by the time the movie came out, Jack was retired and wasn't working out of an office.
Second, I do think McMullen (or Mac Mullen as Red always called him) was in place fairly soon because he asked Ohio's AD for permission to talk to me during that basketball season and he also introduced Dick Bestwick as the new head coach at a home basketball game. So Jack definitely came after Joe.
Third, I like and liked Red, given what he had been through it was extremely tough for him to be told he couldn't have the HC job but he could stick around and be an assistant. I am so happy for him he's achieved some peace. He more than deserved it.
Fourth, I agree with him about that Miami game. Miami did play their 3rd and 4th string a lot.
Fifth, I'd like to say some things about Joe McMullen but he's gone and can't defend himself, so the best thing is just to say very little at all about him. I did end up at Marshall because of Jack and not because of the AD. A lot of people from back then have a lot of Joe Mac stories.

I have not read the book but I am sure I will get a chance this year. Red deserved to be as bitter as wanted to be back then. No one should have to go through what he went through. The same for all of the families, the fans, the students and the entire community. It changed the history of Marshall University, and while the years will eventually take a toll, and no one alive will remember being there then, they will be able to see and know that the fight to go on was there then. And remains. So salute Red, Jack, even old Joe Mac for having the fight in them. From first hand experience, it wasn't easy.

Last thought: If anyone should have been part of the movie and your memories, I cherished my time with Ed Starling. He was first class. I think it would have been easy for him to go away and move on to something else, but he stuck it out and was a very steadying influence. He's one of the good guys you are fortunate to meet along the way.
 
  • Like
Reactions: goherd73
Sid the problem with the multiple game ball theory is that red said his daughter "decorated"his ball in some way and it was the same ball that he saw in the persons office
 
That makes sense. I was trying to remember who I saw interviewed during the moviemaking time. I have a few ideas who could have ended up with it but I guess the person knows they have it and should return it to the athletic department. Then again, if you are so arrogant to take it, then I doubt you would be compassionate enough to return it.
 
exHerdSID said:
I hesitated to comment on this one but thought I might help out. I do admit that after a lot of years, some things are a little more forgettable and others are very clear.
First, I would guess that there was actually more than one game ball from that game. As far as if Jack had one, he probably did but by the time the movie came out, Jack was retired and wasn't working out of an office.
Second, I do think McMullen (or Mac Mullen as Red always called him) was in place fairly soon because he asked Ohio's AD for permission to talk to me during that basketball season and he also introduced Dick Bestwick as the new head coach at a home basketball game. So Jack definitely came after Joe.
Third, I like and liked Red, given what he had been through it was extremely tough for him to be told he couldn't have the HC job but he could stick around and be an assistant. I am so happy for him he's achieved some peace. He more than deserved it.
Fourth, I agree with him about that Miami game. Miami did play their 3rd and 4th string a lot.
Fifth, I'd like to say some things about Joe McMullen but he's gone and can't defend himself, so the best thing is just to say very little at all about him. I did end up at Marshall because of Jack and not because of the AD. A lot of people from back then have a lot of Joe Mac stories.

I have not read the book but I am sure I will get a chance this year. Red deserved to be as bitter as wanted to be back then. No one should have to go through what he went through. The same for all of the families, the fans, the students and the entire community. It changed the history of Marshall University, and while the years will eventually take a toll, and no one alive will remember being there then, they will be able to see and know that the fight to go on was there then. And remains. So salute Red, Jack, even old Joe Mac for having the fight in them. From first hand experience, it wasn't easy.

Last thought: If anyone should have been part of the movie and your memories, I cherished my time with Ed Starling. He was first class. I think it would have been easy for him to go away and move on to something else, but he stuck it out and was a very steadying influence. He's one of the good guys you are fortunate to meet along the way.
Click to expand...
Very good to read what you have written. I agree on many points but mostly the part about Ed Starling. He was a true gentleman. I see his wife drive by my house about everyday. By the way, I had interviewed for the SID job with Joe before you got it. At the time I hadn't finished my degree and was eliminated from the race early.
 
I'm glad somebody that people will believe has exploded the Miami game myth. I have said for a long time on this board that the fictional recollection of Woody and others about what happened was bunk. Miami played everybody but the cheerleaders and could have scored a hundred if they had desired. Reality doesn't always fit the needed narrative to fuel some sort of hatred toward a rivalry that didn't exist in 1971.
 
Green, I think the 66-6 started a sentiment toward the Skins that lasts. While Mallory seemed OK they did have a few other coaches that I never thought too much of. And just about every other school back then had the same feelings towards Miami. Part of it was that in the 60's they were very good, and along with Bowling Green and Ohio were the big bad guys. One thing that did kind of help set up some of those post 66-6 feelings was that because the 3rd and 4th string guys were getting to play and score, the Miami sideline was very loud and happy. When you were struggling like we were, that kind of thing just gave you a bad taste in the mouth.
 
There used to be a game ball in Gullickson in the mid to late 90s. It was behind glass and also had some sort of info about the crash and what not. Was that it or was that the ball that was to be used for the next game against Ohio? I remember walking by this ball daily in the halls of Gullickson.
 
I got the book in the mail yesterday and started reading last night. Couldn't put it down, but finally gave in at 1:30AM. I came across one little glitch. When Red was telling how we were getting so many players from Ferrum he included Pat Norell. Pat didn't come from Ferrum, he came from Greenbrier Military School. I know because I was there with him. Pat got his nickname Nutsy at Greenbrier. We had fall camp at a boys camp near GMS that GMS owned. After the last session of campers left it became the football camp. Right in the camp was a steep part of the mountains. At 6AM you were to be out and ready for the morning run up the mountain. Pat would be there before anyone else doing Tarzan yells like a mad man. Thus he acquired the nick name Nutsy.
 
Herdon2 said:
There used to be a game ball in Gullickson in the mid to late 90s. It was behind glass and also had some sort of info about the crash and what not. Was that it or was that the ball that was to be used for the next game against Ohio? I remember walking by this ball daily in the halls of Gullickson.
Click to expand...
That ball was from Ohio game the following week
 
  • Like
Reactions: Herdon2
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

greengeezer

Lumber is not his future

Replies
5
Views
400
Pullman Square - Non Sports Talk
herdfan06
H
i am herdman

Democrats supporting gang members and Bernie Sanders charging $600

Replies
3
Views
406
Pullman Square - Non Sports Talk
ThunderCat98
ThunderCat98
WV-FAN

Memorial Day meals, what are you cooking?

Replies
9
Views
595
Pullman Square - Non Sports Talk
mlblack16.
mlblack16.
J

No April Fools

Replies
12
Views
1K
Pullman Square - Non Sports Talk
i am herdman
i am herdman
greengeezer

The guy must have gone to Harvard

Replies
6
Views
1K
Pullman Square - Non Sports Talk
Rock98Dog
R
ADVERTISEMENT

Latest posts

ADVERTISEMENT
ADVERTISEMENT
Top Bottom
Back