SHR: Kent State
- Thread starter Herdstruck
- Start date
There are going to be some serious changes at several schools across the country. If you cant sell tickets and be profitable the gallows may await as far as FBS football is concerned.
This can be viewed two ways in regards to Marshall.
1. We as a small school may be forced at some point to review our own athletic department and accept our place financially, which would likely lead us into some new division with the rest of the "other guys" "G5" whatever you want to call it. That would be the worst case scenario. Some new-found limbo between FBS and FCS.
2. Or, maybe enough teams that dont make money will willingly fold, move back to FCS, or in some way cease to play FBS football that a split is not necessary and we can position ourselves to remain financially viable at the FBS level. This would be optimal for us. If the Sun Belt, some of the MAC, some of CUSA and some of MWC leave FBS it would allow for the remaining teams to form six-seven profitable leagues based at least partially on geography that take football seriously and compete at a high level.
This post was edited on 1/20 8:08 PM by RhinoD
This can be viewed two ways in regards to Marshall.
1. We as a small school may be forced at some point to review our own athletic department and accept our place financially, which would likely lead us into some new division with the rest of the "other guys" "G5" whatever you want to call it. That would be the worst case scenario. Some new-found limbo between FBS and FCS.
2. Or, maybe enough teams that dont make money will willingly fold, move back to FCS, or in some way cease to play FBS football that a split is not necessary and we can position ourselves to remain financially viable at the FBS level. This would be optimal for us. If the Sun Belt, some of the MAC, some of CUSA and some of MWC leave FBS it would allow for the remaining teams to form six-seven profitable leagues based at least partially on geography that take football seriously and compete at a high level.
This post was edited on 1/20 8:08 PM by RhinoD
Or a third alternative when it comes to MU is that our athletic administration will finally come to realize that men's basketball is the only other potential money making sport when it comes to our total athletic programs (and budget) and start to take it seriously rather than just an afterthought.
I agree that basketball should be a priority as well, but this has absolutely nothing to do with basketball.
UAB has a traditionally strong basketball program and they still folded football... Kent State sells basketball tickets and is a "basketball rich" part of the country and they may move away from FBS football. If a new division of NCAA sports is going to be created, it is going to be created due to the disparity between the haves and have nots in football.
UAB has a traditionally strong basketball program and they still folded football... Kent State sells basketball tickets and is a "basketball rich" part of the country and they may move away from FBS football. If a new division of NCAA sports is going to be created, it is going to be created due to the disparity between the haves and have nots in football.
I remember a Kent State away game in the early 2000's where the ref wasn't mic'ed, but you could still hear him on the broadcast. There might have been 500 people in the house, almost all were Marshall fans, and that was when they had Josh Cribbs.
Good riddance. The best thing that could happen to Marshall and anybody in G5 that is actually trying would be for about 20 schools to take a running jump off a cliff.
Good riddance. The best thing that could happen to Marshall and anybody in G5 that is actually trying would be for about 20 schools to take a running jump off a cliff.
Agreed licious but I would go a step farther... 30 teams (Either fold all together or go back to FCS).
Get down to 96 in FBS and create six conferences with 16 teams each then go to an 8-team playoff. Six league champs and two at-larges.
Think of the money that would make for both the 96 member institutions and the NCAA. Not to mention the FCS would get some of its traditional powers back like App State, Georgia Southern, etc.
The key is getting to a financial place where we are in the 96 who want to play ball and not in the also-rans.
Get down to 96 in FBS and create six conferences with 16 teams each then go to an 8-team playoff. Six league champs and two at-larges.
Think of the money that would make for both the 96 member institutions and the NCAA. Not to mention the FCS would get some of its traditional powers back like App State, Georgia Southern, etc.
The key is getting to a financial place where we are in the 96 who want to play ball and not in the also-rans.
If the NCAA enforced its attendance requirement, and actually audited the numbers the schools provided, I think the following teams would face the axe (note: this list is not comprehensive, so if you think of any others, feel free to add them):
AAC
Temple
South Florida
Tulane
SMU
UConn
C-USA
MTSU
FAU
FIU
Rice
Louisiana Tech
MAC
BGSU
Buffalo
Akron
UMass
Miami (OH)
Kent State
Ball State
Eastern Michigan
MWC
UNLV
San Jose State
New Mexico
Wyoming
Sun Belt
Georgia Southern
Georgia State
Idaho
New Mexico State
Troy
UL Monroe
UL Lafayette
Texas State
Arkansas State
South Alabama
That's 32 teams right there. That number would jump up by another 5-6 within the next two years when all these neophyte just-add-water programs lose their new car smell and run out of "potential" and "upside" to sell their fans.
AAC
Temple
South Florida
Tulane
SMU
UConn
C-USA
MTSU
FAU
FIU
Rice
Louisiana Tech
MAC
BGSU
Buffalo
Akron
UMass
Miami (OH)
Kent State
Ball State
Eastern Michigan
MWC
UNLV
San Jose State
New Mexico
Wyoming
Sun Belt
Georgia Southern
Georgia State
Idaho
New Mexico State
Troy
UL Monroe
UL Lafayette
Texas State
Arkansas State
South Alabama
That's 32 teams right there. That number would jump up by another 5-6 within the next two years when all these neophyte just-add-water programs lose their new car smell and run out of "potential" and "upside" to sell their fans.
Just a few names off that list that seem like "obvious" choices to drop out of FBS...
Idaho -- How in the world hasnt that happened already? They are traditionally a homecoming game for everyone on their schedule and their travel in the Sun Belt has to be absurd to play in front of 10k people every week.
Eastern Michigan -- Again, cupcake city every year and about the 10th biggest fanbase in their own state behind at least two other directionals.
Hawaii -- Rumors are swirling that Hawaii may drop footbal all together. The cost is just too high to travel for games no one is watching.
FIU -- Words like potential, and market are fun to promote. Being terrible every year in a city that doesnt care if you even play your games is not. Also fading behind FAU (who is seemingly on the upswing) is a bad sign for the other F_U.
Akron -- Decrepit stadium in a dying city in a slowly dying rustbelt state. Again the 10th largest fanbase in your own state behind at least one FCS team (Youngstown State).
Idaho -- How in the world hasnt that happened already? They are traditionally a homecoming game for everyone on their schedule and their travel in the Sun Belt has to be absurd to play in front of 10k people every week.
Eastern Michigan -- Again, cupcake city every year and about the 10th biggest fanbase in their own state behind at least two other directionals.
Hawaii -- Rumors are swirling that Hawaii may drop footbal all together. The cost is just too high to travel for games no one is watching.
FIU -- Words like potential, and market are fun to promote. Being terrible every year in a city that doesnt care if you even play your games is not. Also fading behind FAU (who is seemingly on the upswing) is a bad sign for the other F_U.
Akron -- Decrepit stadium in a dying city in a slowly dying rustbelt state. Again the 10th largest fanbase in your own state behind at least one FCS team (Youngstown State).
Doesn't Akron have new stadium?
I believe there are going to be several schools that drop football or move out of FBS football. Just too expensive for some of them and for some going to a lower division is more of a money loser.
Yes, their Infocision Stadium seats about 30,000, cost between 60-70 Million $$, and is a "palace" compared to most G5 football facilities. Problem seems to be that (1) they are in the MAC, which means that, (2) despite a student enrollment of over 20,000, and a city population of about 3 to 4 times that of Huntington, they only draw about 12,000-15,000 fans per game. Stadium only opened about 2 seasons ago.
Accorsing to wku fans they struggle to get decent crowsds too.
During the meetings at Disney shortly after the UAB debacle the feeling was that 2-3 more programs will be doing the same.
My questions is why close up shop? Why nit move down to the FCS? The studies prove they cannot compete on the FBS level.
Let's say that Marshall had the dame outcome in a study. I would much rather drop down than dissolve football all together.
If we would drop football instead of dropping doen I would be done supporting Marshall.
However we don't have to worry because we have proven we belong on this level.
During the meetings at Disney shortly after the UAB debacle the feeling was that 2-3 more programs will be doing the same.
My questions is why close up shop? Why nit move down to the FCS? The studies prove they cannot compete on the FBS level.
Let's say that Marshall had the dame outcome in a study. I would much rather drop down than dissolve football all together.
If we would drop football instead of dropping doen I would be done supporting Marshall.
However we don't have to worry because we have proven we belong on this level.
I don't think it is about competing at the FCS level. It is about losing money. From I have read previously it is hard to make money at the FCS level.
I get that. However it takes less to play at that level. The finding in the UAB study was they would need X amount of dollars to fiekd a competitve team that competes for titles and they didn't want to commit that money.
Very few athletic departments operate in thr black year after year.
i thought i read on here that Marshall used to lose quite a bit of money when we were in 1AA. anybody confirm?
The NCAA FBS requirement is that a team average 15,000 fans a game. The above teams all claim to average more than that amount, yet any game I've ever seen at their host stadium has reflected a crowd smaller - and in some cases much smaller - than that amount. I did not claim anywhere in my post that it was based on rigorous research, and actually used the verb "think" as a qualifier on my opinion. In addition to this, I asked for the opinions of others on who might also belong on this list, or be removed from it. I thought it was a fairly low-key take, but maybe I was wrong.
Please feel free to point out any team you think I am unfairly targeting, and if you want to be really thorough, post some pictures of their packed stadium and raucous atmosphere.
Marshall loses money on athletics every year, and actually loses more money now than it ever has before. According to USA Today, last year we lost about $13 million on athletics, which is an amount roughly equivalent to what we spent on athletics when we were in FCS 20 years ago (a point that is exaggerated by inflation, of course, but still true).
I'm sure there is a difference in the respective costs and revenues associated with FCS and FBS, but I think the reality for the smaller schools is that their FBS ceiling is too low to justify what they're spending trying to raise it. You have to believe that any school downshifting their program is doing it to save money, not lose it.
The NCAA facilitated this problem by allowing teams that were nowhere close to 1-A standards to make the jump up......maybe I'm wrong, but I don't think there's been a truly successful move up since us, NIU and UCF.
without calculating how much athletics makes in terms of exposure, increased applications based on sports success, the fact that 100% of student fees shouldn't be counted as a loss because we have a few thousand students at every game who'd otherwise have to buy tickets, you could say we lost $13m, but if you want to look at the whole picture, you can't say we lost $13m.
Eastern Michigan would be lucky to get 15,000 fans total for 3 games. Most people in that area are Michigan fans, as EMU is only 8 miles away. Combine that with the fact that EMU is horrible, and folks simply can think of 138,214 better things to do.
It appears that the additional $2,500 for "attendance" on each of Kent State's 450 scholarships is the main reason for the study. Logically, if the Power 5 conferences raise the scholarship stakes, the G5 schools will have to do so as well.
The back biting has begun to widen the gap between the "haves" and "have nots" of Divison I and the winners are always the guys with the money.
Attendance Benefits
Some of these smaller schools are losing money on football. We're not losing money on football.
We're losing money on athletics overall because of Title IX, and because our basketball team sucks. Basketball should be a bigger moneymaker.
We're losing money on athletics overall because of Title IX, and because our basketball team sucks. Basketball should be a bigger moneymaker.
Title IX is a factor, but also the expense of the other men's sports we're required to have as a member of C-USA (which themselves increase our required matching Title IX expense).
Bet the house on this: Even if 5,000 HERD fans are in attendance when we play at Kent State, there won't be anywhere close to 15,000 in attendance at that game, no matter what Kent says the figure is (sort of like the attendance that MU lists at Herd games at the Henderson Center this season)!!
