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Time to go after big name coach now

ohio herd

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We should be after Les Miles or Bret Bielema if he gets fired. I wish Doc the best but he is bull headed and his refusal to let Bill Legg go has hurt the program. I wish both of them the best I am sure they are both good guys.
 
Kiffin to fau was unexpected also. Yea he will be gone in a few years but isnt that a good thing? We need to be ok with being a coaches stepping stone until we start playing marshall football again. When we would walk into death valley and beat clemson. When we go into ohio state and only lise to a last second 55 yd mike nugent fg. Or upset no. 6 k state. We need that feeling bavk where we go into every single game expecting a win no matter who or where we are playing. When we become that dangerous again and people start respecting us again then I think we could keep coaches longer. I know there were some ncaa things at play around the time but those factors also more than likely kept better coaches from looking into the job when it became available. I am just extremely frustrated with the way our team has been playing lately under this staff. Mostly need offensive coaches but i feel it is docs philosophy going into prevent on defense every game so i really just don't know anymore.
 
Sorry, but Hamrick has been nothing but an average to mediocre Athletic Director throughout his entire career. Also, managed to locate another job just as his seat was starting to warm up at his present job. Has also a very checkered, mostly mediocre, record when it comes to his hires in major sports, see football and basketball. Some need to recall comments from supporters of ECU, one of Hammy's former stops, when he was hired here. Also, you guys remember who hired Tom Herrion, don't you? Hammy had previously hired Herrion's brother for the same job at ECU. As someone else said, its the "good ole boy" network!
 
Kiffin to fau was unexpected also. Yea he will be gone in a few years but isnt that a good thing? We need to be ok with being a coaches stepping stone until we start playing marshall football again. When we would walk into death valley and beat clemson. When we go into ohio state and only lise to a last second 55 yd mike nugent fg. Or upset no. 6 k state. We need that feeling bavk where we go into every single game expecting a win no matter who or where we are playing. When we become that dangerous again and people start respecting us again then I think we could keep coaches longer. I know there were some ncaa things at play around the time but those factors also more than likely kept better coaches from looking into the job when it became available. I am just extremely frustrated with the way our team has been playing lately under this staff. Mostly need offensive coaches but i feel it is docs philosophy going into prevent on defense every game so i really just don't know anymore.

Florida Atlantic is also the Atlantic coast of Florida, not Depression, WV. Big difference for a guy like Kiffin who at this point likes his lifestyle more than being a big name coach.
 
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IF Doc is fired (he won't be this year) the next coach will be a I-AA HC or a G5 assistant. All we can afford.

So we’ve been over paying Doc then right?

Frankly good Assistants/coordinators at any level with head coaching aspirations would find a Marshall job intriguing.

I am all for returning to the mindset of accepting true head coaching talent that is likely using Marshall as a stepping stone. The compensation Doc currently receives would easily attract that.

Structure the buyout appropriately on the contracts so if the guy leaves, the next candidate is partially funded.
 
Then you agree that going after Miles or Bielema is delusional. Good.

So certainly you have a list of "good assistants/coordinators" waiting to buy in here. Please list.
 
Anybody who sees some SEC retread coach slumming at Marshall has delusional issues so large that they are beyond help.

IF Doc is fired (he won't be this year) the next coach will be a I-AA HC or a G5 assistant. All we can afford.
For 800 grand a year? Anyway, they would likely be better than Doc. I will take a good IAA coach instead of the Associate Head Coach who was a glorified recruiter. Hell, we could 50 or 100 guys for half that who would do what Doc is doing.
 
Then you agree that going after Miles or Bielema is delusional. Good.

So certainly you have a list of "good assistants/coordinators" waiting to buy in here. Please list.
Well Ohio University hired Frank Solich while he was still a "big time" coach sitting on the sideline. Maybe we could grab one, I don't know but I say at least try!
 
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Then you agree that going after Miles or Bielema is delusional. Good.

So certainly you have a list of "good assistants/coordinators" waiting to buy in here. Please list.

Delusional? No. Unrealistic? Yes.

A list ready? No. Just looking at what Marshall built its reputation on through the 80’s and 90’s certainly would be the model. Parrish, chaump, Donnan all used the Herd as a stepping stone. They established a different trajectory for the program that allowed Pruett to accelerate.

$800K a year is a nice package for anyone who is looking to establish their ability as a head coach or a (very) large step up for a quality guy from a lower level school too.

Simply suggesting “Marshall can’t afford”.... is a pathetic excuse for allowing average hires like Doc et al, to continue.
 
We should be after Les Miles or Bret Bielema if he gets fired. I wish Doc the best but he is bull headed and his refusal to let Bill Legg go has hurt the program. I wish both of them the best I am sure they are both good guys.
First, we would need to buyout the 3 remaining years of Doc's contract. Where would that money come from? Where would we get the money to bring in a "name" coach? You couldn't possibly touch one for less than $1 million per year.
 
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Well Ohio University hired Frank Solich while he was still a "big time" coach sitting on the sideline. Maybe we could grab one, I don't know but I say at least try!

Ohio and Solich have worked out well for each other. The Bobcats seem to be in the hunt each year for the MAC East title. However with only one 10 win season in the 13 years he's been there, and no MAC conference titles, I wonder if he would have been afforded that kind of tenure at Marshall?
 
Florida Atlantic is also the Atlantic coast of Florida, not Depression, WV. Big difference for a guy like Kiffin who at this point likes his lifestyle more than being a big name coach.
why do we always count ourselves out of everything instead of just trying. I mean we want to sell ourselves and our program as great but as soon as someone mentions getting a better coach our faithful start slamming them asking why would anyone want to come here. If we argue amongst ourselves on the public forum about no one wanting to come here then why would anyone considering it even take a chance? Say im stuck in the 90s but i expect more of our team than what we have been showing. I want our ooc schedule to be p5 schools and i want to feel confident each week like we are going to win. If we can get that feeling back and figure out the attendance then why couldn't we be a resume builder for a young coach or a name coach out of a job elsewhere? I dont care if they turn around and leave if it builds our name and returns us to winning championships. Look at what kiffin said in his interview. He tweets and encourages the lane train and stuff because it gets people talking. If things go viral and espn talks about it while talking about the alabsmas and ohio states then it is just more people to hear about fau and he is fine with that bc then more people might come there to be a part of what they are doing. I keep bringing him up bc they are in our conference and had not won more than a few games but didnt sell themselves short. Plus he gets what it takes to change the culture. Get players to buy in then make things fun to get people talking and get everyone else to buy in and wanting to come there. Sounds kind of like what people have been arguing about on here lately hasnt it? "Doc lost the team last year" "attendance is down" "if we win attendance will get better" "our offense is boring" long post but sitting back doing the same things every year gets us nowhere. You have to believe marshall has a great program where someone should want to coach or quit complaining about what we have had lately.
 
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why do we always count ourselves out of everything instead of just trying.

Just trying is a meaningless phrase. Should a 10 year old "just try" to take a college analytical biochemistry final exam? Should a guy making minimum wage go down to the Lincoln lot and "just try" to see he can swing a deal on a new Continental? Should Ashland call up NFL HQ and "just try" to see if the Dolphins are interested in moving to town? Should a 10 handicapper call up Augusta and see if he can get a tee time in The Masters? Should HTS management "just try" to call up Aeroflot and see if a 747 daily direct to Moscow is in the offing?

Other meaningless phases include "take a different direction" (which one?) "pull out all the stops" (Oh, thank you Agent Gibbs, never would have thought that trying harder was the answer) "Fire X coach" (and replace him with EXACTLY whom, paid for with EXACTLY what money? ) "change" (if you are over the Atlantic, cutting the engines would be a 'change' ) "new leadership" (the commies were a new leader after the czar, how did that work out? ) and other meaningless fluff.

In the real world, Marshall is a grossly underfunded state university with a limited fanbase in a poor state built on taxing and spending from a single industry the world no longer really wants. In the real world, we are in the conference we are in, on the TV channels we are on, and get the coaches and players we get. That is reality.

We have 2 games left. AFTER the season, we need to take stock. Nobody is firing Doc or MH (this year) and whenever and however the Doc/MH era ends, the next coach is not going to be somebody 99.9% of people have even heard of. Our recruiting is going to be what it is, looking for hidden gems, overlooked players, and, yes, people with issues. Doc will probably be forced to fire Legg, and the next guy will be another limb off the Don Nehlen coaching tree, and you don't see a lot of statues to Fat Donnie and his 20 years of mediocrity, now do you.



It is called "living in the real world" which involves trying things you have a realistic shot at being able to do.
 
Based on this last post by Sam...might as well shut the program down. No sense in straining an already underfunded state school any further. What a waste of $$$. None of our young superfans are coming to the games anyway.
 
First, we would need to buyout the 3 remaining years of Doc's contract. Where would that money come from? Where would we get the money to bring in a "name" coach? You couldn't possibly touch one for less than $1 million per year.

If a buyout is “not affordable”, how exactly can we afford his contract??
 
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Just trying is a meaningless phrase. Should a 10 year old "just try" to take a college analytical biochemistry final exam? Should a guy making minimum wage go down to the Lincoln lot and "just try" to see he can swing a deal on a new Continental? Should Ashland call up NFL HQ and "just try" to see if the Dolphins are interested in moving to town? Should a 10 handicapper call up Augusta and see if he can get a tee time in The Masters? Should HTS management "just try" to call up Aeroflot and see if a 747 daily direct to Moscow is in the offing?

Other meaningless phases include "take a different direction" (which one?) "pull out all the stops" (Oh, thank you Agent Gibbs, never would have thought that trying harder was the answer) "Fire X coach" (and replace him with EXACTLY whom, paid for with EXACTLY what money? ) "change" (if you are over the Atlantic, cutting the engines would be a 'change' ) "new leadership" (the commies were a new leader after the czar, how did that work out? ) and other meaningless fluff.

In the real world, Marshall is a grossly underfunded state university with a limited fanbase in a poor state built on taxing and spending from a single industry the world no longer really wants. In the real world, we are in the conference we are in, on the TV channels we are on, and get the coaches and players we get. That is reality.

We have 2 games left. AFTER the season, we need to take stock. Nobody is firing Doc or MH (this year) and whenever and however the Doc/MH era ends, the next coach is not going to be somebody 99.9% of people have even heard of. Our recruiting is going to be what it is, looking for hidden gems, overlooked players, and, yes, people with issues. Doc will probably be forced to fire Legg, and the next guy will be another limb off the Don Nehlen coaching tree, and you don't see a lot of statues to Fat Donnie and his 20 years of mediocrity, now do you.



It is called "living in the real world" which involves trying things you have a realistic shot at being able to do.

Guinness World Record for world's youngest college graduate (age 10) lol nevermind taking the entrance exam at 10 "in the real world" because some people aren't afraid of trying
 
Ohio and Solich have worked out well for each other. The Bobcats seem to be in the hunt each year for the MAC East title. However with only one 10 win season in the 13 years he's been there, and no MAC conference titles, I wonder if he would have been afforded that kind of tenure at Marshall?
I doubt it. However the stability he brought them was worth it. I would add that is why I have supported Doc.I felt that stability was good. But he is stubborn and as HC his decisions are hurting the program.
 
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I doubt it. However the stability he brought them was worth it. I would add that is why I have supported Doc. But he is stubborn and as HC his decisions are hurting the program.

I totally agree, I have not been on the dismiss Doc train, mainly because I've ridden the Donnan and Pruitt to Snyder roller coaster. And Doc has brought a level of success and to some extent stability. However when the potential to be much better than the produced being produced, becomes painfully obvious, then maybe it's time to buy a ticket.
 
I just don't see how we could afford it... wonder what happens if Doc is told he'll keep his job as long a Legg goes.
 
Florida Atlantic is also the Atlantic coast of Florida, not Depression, WV. Big difference for a guy like Kiffin who at this point likes his lifestyle more than being a big name coach.


I would NEVER want to have Lane Kiffin coaching at Marshall.

Why?
It is more than winning X & Os for me. It's about being mature and not demanding to be the "center of attention" and acting like a little boy ........as Lane has exhibited anywhere he had coached. Spoiled brat is putting it mildly. To me----it's about "wanting" to be the head football coach at Marshall and willing to reside in Huntington, WEST VIRGINIA.

Is Doc the best head coach in CUSA. No. I support his faults lie within his selection of his staff. I don't know any of them, however, I have witnessed our program for the past 8 years... the "excitement" has gone down hill from what it was under previous coaching staffs. Perhaps, he has interviewed others to come to Huntington and was turned down? He plays it close to his vest...Doc is "Old School" and we (outsiders) don't know what lies underneath those piercing eyes. I can tell you based on my few interactions...I Like Doc Holiday. I support he loves the state of West Virginia and he has grown to love Marshall. I will never forget his love for his high school mentor, Coach McCoy and how Coach McCoy welcomed Doc to the HERD Family. Folks, you can't hide respect and love....it will come out sooner--- than later.

LOYALTY to Marshall means a heck of a lot to me! It's why we give our money to support the University.

I watched the UTSA game on Facebook and read all the negative comments from Herd fans during the game. Marshall faced (in my opinion) the best defensive squad they have faced this season...and that includes N C State. UTSA gets after you...quick to the ball and are very active on all defensive fronts. I was very sad to read the floating comments and found many remarks have no foundation to them. But, we live in times of social media where people can say what they want!

HOWEVER, I agree...we do have major issues with our Offensive side of the ball. The HERD could not score in the first quarter this year and this places more stress on the defenders. WE are Spoiled. Marshall football has been about a program of scoring points over the years....lots of points! Fortunately, I saw the "old Marshall football" on our late scoring TD. Litton was given the "green light" and Chase rose to the occasion. I was cheering for Chase. He has taken a lot of abuse this year...some on his own doing, grant you----- but a lot on him (in my opinion) being saddled with few offensive options. Folks, a lot of the time our receivers can not "get open"....it's their job to be unguarded! Our running backs have to hit the right holes. This has not happened a lot this year. Our offensive line is very young. It takes a lot of time "in battle" to become a good "HOG UNIT". Is our poor offensive line not being "coached Up?" I don't get the chance to watch practice like many of you. Therefore, I am not exposed to the teachings of our linemen.

My main objection is our offense is placed in too many 3rd and long situations. Rather than connecting on short passes, mixed with effective running plays to create 10-12 down drives [resting our defense] with the hope of having our receivers & runners make "break away yardage".....our staff seems to be failing! Rather, Chase is expected to complete 40-yard bombs to covered guys. Hell's Bells....Tom Brady can not do that!

The season will be over soon and Spring will bring a new beginning. Question? Will we witness more of the same in 2018? I hope to see the "Old Herd" return to The Joan.

To be continued..........

HerdZilla22 (Gary Sweeney) in Charlotte
 
First, we would need to buyout the 3 remaining years of Doc's contract. Where would that money come from? Where would we get the money to bring in a "name" coach? You couldn't possibly touch one for less than $1 million per year.
I get your point. Money is an issue for sure. I submit to you that a guy who has been making 2-3 mil a year and now is looking will not need big money to get back in the race. Look maybe Doc will shake up his staff and get some new blood to run the show on offense.I don't think it is the end of the world but if we are going to go in a new direction I say let's swing for the fence
 
First, we would need to buyout the 3 remaining years of Doc's contract. Where would that money come from? Where would we get the money to bring in a "name" coach? You couldn't possibly touch one for less than $1 million per year.
Simply not true. Have you seen coaches salaries. We could find find a good coach for $800k or so, especially a coordinator or up and comer that has aspirations to be a head coach. That salary fits in nicely and realy nice for Huntington WV. The coach at Army is making a million so, we are right there. If we are paying Doc 850K then another 150K is obtainable.

Not touching a coach for less than a million is simply a lie and false.

I have seen the salaries for coaches that are our peers and we are right there.

You guys are getting fed a line of bunk about not being competitive for salary.

Also, if we paid a guy 850k a year then where is the buyout? If someone put Marshall on that kind of exposure and they don't have the money then they need to be fired as well for incompetence. Also, those buyouts are often negotiated and not due at once.

Where did all this woe is me attitude come from?
 
The guy at HHS is available...just saying...lol.

Dumpster fire of great magnitude..and there have been those who have jumped all over me over the past few years with my criticism of the AD. Now many are realizing what a poor hire he was..not like he set the world on fire at any of his previous stops..as has been noted and noted and noted.
 
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If a buyout is “not affordable”, how exactly can we afford his contract??

Umm, because we would have to pay Doc and ALSO pay whoever replaces him. It is like wanting to buy a house in Florida and also keeping the one here too. Two payments, not one. And this crowd seems convinced that Les Miles or something close is what they want.

Simple math.
 
Umm, because we would have to pay Doc and ALSO pay whoever replaces him. It is like wanting to buy a house in Florida and also keeping the one here too. Two payments, not one. And this crowd seems convinced that Les Miles or something close is what they want.

Simple math.
We paid Doc and Snyder at the same time. Hamrick should be rung up for signing Doc to those contract extensions. Regardless, those things are negotiated and Snyder was paid in installments I believe.Some of the salary are perks that would not cost cash.

It can be done. I get tired of hearing it can't be done. If MU signed that deal with no way out then whoever agreed to it should be fired for incompetence. It is going to be simple math when ticket sales and donations dry up.
 
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The guy at HHS is available...just saying...lol.

Dumpster fire of great magnitude..and there have been those who have jumped all over me over the past few years with my criticism of the AD. Now many are realizing what a poor hire he was..not like he set the world on fire at any of his previous stops..as has been noted and noted and noted.

How has he been a dumpster fire when compared to the one before him?
Built an IPF, academic center, and sports medicine complex with an MU HoF.
Found us a coach who can win somewhat consistently.
Didn't ditch return games with P5 schools and brought many more to Huntington.
Hired a basketball coach everyone likes.

How is that a dumpster fire again?
 
Many interesting points have been brought up.
I'll start with addressing the initial post.

Uhmmmm...no. Les Miles nor Bielma would coach here.
If we were to be realistic, I'd look at Bo Pelini at Youngstown State or NDSU or JMU's head coach...if anything the latter two's OC if we had to replace Legg.

Many are saying Marshall needs to try a different route and as one said, 'I am all for returning to the mindset of accepting true head coaching talent that is likely using Marshall as a stepping stone.'

If thats the case then consider ourselves FAU and FIU and basically all of C-USA and pretty much 99% of the G5.

If there was one thing MU did right, it was the loyalty of the head coaches to the program.
In fact, its a great recruiting point to someone if you can realistically guarantee them 4 years of you.
Its one thing that MU set itself apart from other G5 programs for so long.
I can only think of 2 other places who did this, Boise State and they are a bit of an oddball in this because since Petersen left for UW, they hired their OC I think who is still there. Them and Navy are about the only two besides MU who have been able to keep their HC's for a long period of time.

Thing is, if we became a stepping stone school then we can't realistically expect to have 10 win seasons anymore.


Look at Southern Miss (a school comparable to ours) for example.
Jeff Bower, from 1996-2007 did not post a losing season. Thats insane.
But they wanted more. The consistency was there but not an upper level that their fans demanded. So they fired him.
Enter Larry Fedora...who was never more than an OC himself.
His best season was 12-2 after 7-6 twice and 8-5 once.
He bolts for UNC...stepping stone...

Enter Tommy West...coordinator.
0-12 canned...and giving up a home game against Nebraska to cover the buyout for his contract.

Enter Todd Monken...coordinator but some NFL experience.
1-11, 3-9, 9-5 bolts for the NFL.

We are now at 2016...
Enter Jay Hopson. Former HC at Alcorn State...
7-6, 7-4

How would Marshall fans react to these records of head coaches if they were here? I used USM because they are basically much like us.

I'll just answer the question with how fans feel about 2016 when we won 3 games and our team currently, who has won 7 games.

Now, its likely their fans are accepting they won't win 10 games every year (face it they have once) and may not even be hopeful for winning seasons in consistent manners, although they are doing that somewhat now.

I imagine thats why FAU and FIU and the likes of other G5's don't have the support. Its because their fans have accepted that their head coach may win 9-10 games but they won't be around long enough for it to really gel and give the fans a consistent reason to be excited.
I'm sure FAU fans are happy about what may be their best year...in the history of their program's existence...ever...for 1 year at least.

The closest thing to a successful stepping stone G5 program is UCF...and even they had to endure a winless season...and if Frost leaves, which Nebraska is calling...expect them to return to Earth.
Look at Houston...now becoming the stepping stone program as well...and their guy bolted for Texas...they just lost to Tulane....TULANE!
Just a year ago they were seriously considered a CFP contender.
Not even Boise State got that sort of talk.

If there is one thing Doc has done, its he has been pretty loyal to a school that he really has no reason to be loyal to. He's always been around wvu, NC, and FL.

MU hired him and he's been here ever since. One can speculate all they want as to why he's not elsewhere...age...his 'inability to coach', etc., but one thing we know for certain...he's still at MU...and you can't tell me he wouldn't be hired at some capacity elsewhere if he put his resume out there...the coaches I listed are all still coaching in some capacity...and had worse records than Doc did when they got hired. Derek Dooley got hired by Tennessee for going 4-8 at LT.

Thing is also, MU fans have higher expectations...Doc NOT having us in contention for an east title each year is a letdown. Less than 10 wins is also a letdown.
For MU fans to be able to say that about a head coach is something that not many G5 or even some lower tier P5 programs can say.
Its all because of the consistency in the position.
Can it be improved? Yes. Legg being replaced would help. Not sure if it happens.
But lets at least look at the head coaches who stuck around and gave us a consistent winning product. Its something I want to expect from Doc each season. I won't lose my mind and boycott the team if it doesn't happen.
Because I know if we began being a stepping stone, I can forget banking on consistent winning seasons as well as having a program I can consistently rally around, knowing that they will win.
 
For the record, I am not saying a different direction is entirely out of the question...but we need to find someone who says,
"I want to make Marshall football the best it has ever been." And it actually translating to that. I think Doc honestly is trying to do that.

Versus

"I want to make Marshall football the best it has ever been (in actuality, I want to make it just good enough for the next gig)."

And the records those coaches posted, wouldn't cut it for the fans.

But it would cut it for them.
 
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