Typical Marshall fan mentality
- Thread starter ThunderCat98
- Start date
And also typical Superfan mentality to post about it and tell everyone how you're a better fan than most. 
And also typical Superfan mentality to post about it and tell everyone how you're a better fan than most.
Sorry. I missed the part where I said I was a better fan than anyone.
I just think it's funny people aren't satisfied with a 9-win season in what is a rebuilding year where we lost the 2 best offensive players on the team to early injuries, started a freshman qb most of the year, and still had a shot to play for the conference championship.
Are there areas that need to be improved? Of course there are, but that's the case for every single team in the country. The notion that we should have a perfect record every year and beat our peers by 4 tds every game is unrealistic and, frankly, ignorant. There is more parity in college athletics than there has ever been. I just don't understand the Marshall fan mentality that we should be so far above similarly sized schools with equal or better budgets. Again, it's absurd.
Well...I think 3 or 4 teams from this "pitiful" league that so many whine about has proved even thru Doc's last coupla yrs that we aren't too good. Do we need a tougher league where NQs aren't allowed? Even tho we can schedule them in the OOC? NO. And its a no brainer. Even if it was free!
you are right Thundercat, we should focus on the 9 wins, not the fact we were humiliated by a good wku football team - heck, felt like we were playing a good SEC or Big 10 team.
I do admit, 9 wins is a good total........that's FCS, odu, charlotte, fiu, fau, kent state, north texas, purdue and so miss. well, so miss is a good win.
I do admit, 9 wins is a good total........that's FCS, odu, charlotte, fiu, fau, kent state, north texas, purdue and so miss. well, so miss is a good win.
2-10
8-4 LOSS
4-7 (FCS)
3-9
5-7
9-3
3-9
1-11
2-10
7-5 LOSS
5-7
10-2 LOSS
a lot of you are getting way too hung up on the 9 win thing... we have exactly ONE quality win out of the 9 (USM). in fact, that is the only win we have over a team with a winning record. we are 1-3 against teams with a winning record. throw in the easiest schedule we have played at the FBS (1A) level ranked 137... the concern some have seems warranted. Doc has done great things here, but he has proven once again to struggle when we can't just line up and out talent the team across from us...
and not that Sagarin is the be-all end-all of college football knowledge, he is a pretty good resource at judging a team's worth...
Marshall 9-3 (75)
S. Carolina 3-9 (71)
Illinois 5-7 (72)
Utah State 6-6 (73)
Virginia 4-8 (76)
ECU 5-7 (79)
Syracuse 4-8 (80)
8-4 LOSS
4-7 (FCS)
3-9
5-7
9-3
3-9
1-11
2-10
7-5 LOSS
5-7
10-2 LOSS
a lot of you are getting way too hung up on the 9 win thing... we have exactly ONE quality win out of the 9 (USM). in fact, that is the only win we have over a team with a winning record. we are 1-3 against teams with a winning record. throw in the easiest schedule we have played at the FBS (1A) level ranked 137... the concern some have seems warranted. Doc has done great things here, but he has proven once again to struggle when we can't just line up and out talent the team across from us...
and not that Sagarin is the be-all end-all of college football knowledge, he is a pretty good resource at judging a team's worth...
Marshall 9-3 (75)
S. Carolina 3-9 (71)
Illinois 5-7 (72)
Utah State 6-6 (73)
Virginia 4-8 (76)
ECU 5-7 (79)
Syracuse 4-8 (80)
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Okay 88 I for one get your point. We would not have 9 wins if we played in the Big 10. So here is my question. I am just curious, no right or wrong answer here. Back in the Pruitt era, when folks talked about how great we were the SOS was almost equal to what it now is. Many on here forget how bad the MAC was in the late 90's. It did improve some around 2003-2004 at the same time we dropped down some. So, please name a list of all the big time wins we had back then every year. Oh I realize we had a few quality wins but year in year out. Of course a win over E. Mich was so much harder than a win over N. Texas, right?On average we might have 1-2 quality wins each year during that time frame. From my vantage point, very little has changed. We won plenty of games then and we are winning plenty of games now against a weak schedule. It is what it is. I guess for me I don't have a problem for us to say lets enjoy the moment and now try to get to the next level without taking a beating. I think this is what MH is trying to do. I can remember us being humiliated by Toledo, Miami of Ohio and Western Michigan during our days in the MAC. Getting spanked by WKU hurts for sure but we will get better going forward.
BP last 2 years here we went 14-10.
MS 5 years here we went 22-37
Doc's first 3 17-22
last three 32-8
Looks to me like we are moving in the right direction.
1997 - SoS N/A
1998 - 118
1999 - 111
2000 - 101
2001 - 93
2002 - 113
2003 - 84
2004 - 112
avg - 104
2015 - 137
2014 - 124
2013 - 122
avg - 128
BIG difference.....
Is it really, though? Not trying to be a smart ass but schedules ranked in the 100s are all about the same to me.
Our SOS next year will be our best in a long time.
the SoS was significantly higher before the conference was picked clean. note our wins were also significantly lower then too...
2012 - 104 (5-7)
2011 - 56 (7-6)
2010 - 91 (5-7)
nearly 30 spots is huge. we are behind several FCS schools. there is a dramatic drop in opponent's win/loss records after 100.
here is our opponent's records from 2000 (101 SoS) compared to this year (137):
2000
5-6
6-5
2-9
9-3
10-1
1-10
6-5
2-9
6-5
7-4
9-3
7-5
Total 70-65
2015
2-10
8-4
4-7
3-9
5-7
9-3
3-9
1-11
2-10
7-5
5-7
10-2
Total 59-84
using today's asinine bowl system the 2000 team would have played 8 bowl teams. 2015 played 4.
again, IMO big difference...
Well I think the 200 yds Butler(prop) had vs WKU last yr and all after th 1st qtr DID make a diff.
And I thought the game GThompson (prop) turned invs ECU 2013 was a deal breaker. Just two recentexs that came to mind without raking my brain. Dot make me bring up Vinny and Thumper. You are nt well informed when it comes to the NQs. Its like you don't them from theother players but I pay close attention on signing day and thereafter.
And I thought the game GThompson (prop) turned invs ECU 2013 was a deal breaker. Just two recentexs that came to mind without raking my brain. Dot make me bring up Vinny and Thumper. You are nt well informed when it comes to the NQs. Its like you don't them from theother players but I pay close attention on signing day and thereafter.
very little has changed? I'll make it real simple. Count championships won back then against the easy schedules and see how many times we finished 3rd in a division of our conference.
Look at it this way, what about Marshall University suggests we aren't right where we should be in the pecking order/greater scheme? We are a small public school in a small, poor state that is certainly not a breeding ground for high school fb talent. We have a strong fanbase for our size, but extremely limited financial resources when it comes to an endowment and donors. We have a brief history of success (thank you coach donnan and coach pruett) during which we were found to have provided recruits with improper benefits. The notion that we are so far superior to our conference mates is a fallacy created by our delusional fanbase. Does that mean I don't want Marshall to be bigger and better? No, of course not. But you can't ignore the reality of where we currently sit.
As for the quality of our 9 wins, guess what? We have 9 wins in a shitty conference. A shitty conference full of teams of similar or larger size, with equal or more money. The ONLY areas we can say we beat our conference mates in are (1) fan support, that is primarily manifest in attendance figures, and (2) a brief history of sustained success.
99
6-6
(fcs)
5-6
2-9
7-4
6-5
0-11
5-6
2-9
7-5
5-6
7-5
Total 52-72
98
4-7
(fcs)
1-10
3-8
10-1
5-6
0-11
1-10
5-6
6-5
4-7
7-5
Total 46-76
so, basically what you're saying is that we weren't really that good in 1998 or 1999 because our schedules were on par with what we played this year.
also, your point about sos ranking isn't that strong of a point. 30 spots may be a huge difference, but in 1998 our schedule was 118 as you point out, but there were only 112 fbs teams that season. this year, we're 137th, but there are 128 fbs schools. relative to the number of peers, fbs teams, it's not that much of a difference.
wow , why dont you add in the other 3 years- cherry picking data to help you get the results you are after is classic
Once again you seem to forget a few imp details.
1. BP took over a program that was loaded and had been on a roll for several years.
2. DH took over a program that had not had a winning season in years.
For the record, I think both BP and DH are great coaches. The difference is one hit the ground feet running the other had to build things up before he could run. So IMO to say Doc has 1 title is not a valid comparison.
i didn't cherry pick. i picked the single season that was closest to the average SoS of 104...
you can't look at the numbers that way. look at them without the "FCS" or "FBS" moniker. the Sagarin SoS ranking gives no benefit to FBS over FCS. it is a raw ranking of schedule strength. the number of total teams playing football is what matters. not how many FBS vs FCS schools there are. if we had the #100 SoS in a given year and the following year it dropped to 150 while 50 FCS schools moved up to FBS it wouldn't mean our schedule was the same. those 50 FCS schools were included in the same ranking that landed #100. it would mean those 50 schools played a harder schedule.
re-read any of my posts and quote where i said we weren't any good this year...
you just proved my point by showing how much of a difference 10, 15, 20, ect spots make in SoS calculation.
1999 was 10 spots worse than 2001... big difference in opponent's win/loss
1998 was 17 spots worse than 2001... even bigger difference in opponent's win/loss
You do know that we are in year # 6 of Doc, right? and year # 3 of watered down CUSA.
yes you are. Add in the other 3 years for Doc and come back and report ht numbers.
2012 - 104 (5-7)
2011 - 56 (7-6)
2010 - 91 (5-7)
yes I am aware. And are you aware we have gotten better under Doc?
First 3 years-17-22
last 3 years 32-8
Your premise of a watered down conference holds no water. I refer to SOS of previous teams we had in the 90's and early 2000's. If we suck now according to you then you MUST say they sucked then. Of course I think they were pretty good and I think we are becoming very good again. Anyway no use arguing with you. It appears you think we suck so maybe you can call the AP voters and remind them that we should not have been ranked last year since it doesn't count because our SOS isn't good enough. And while we are on the subject please reveal the criteria that Saqgrin uses, cause nobody seems to know.
I never said we suck. I do think we have gotten better. I do think we have underachieved a bit under Doc. I know folks point to the last three years but we tend to lose frequently when matched with equal or better talent, and sometimes less talent.
2013 - four losses - Rice less talented, Ohio less talented, MTSU less talented, Va Tech - equal or better.
2014 - one loss - with Cato and company - wku less talented. at home at that. tried to lose the uab game.
2015 - three losses - Ou less talented, MTSU less talented, wku more talented and better game plan.
2013 - four losses - Rice less talented, Ohio less talented, MTSU less talented, Va Tech - equal or better.
2014 - one loss - with Cato and company - wku less talented. at home at that. tried to lose the uab game.
2015 - three losses - Ou less talented, MTSU less talented, wku more talented and better game plan.
we don't play in that conference anymore...
someone compared our current conference/schedules to those from the MAC days. how is it fair to add 3 years of schedules that were significantly better because of teams that are no longer in the conference? would it make sense to use an all inclusive average of wVu's SoS in the Big East from 1991 to 2012 when analyzing their performance vs SoS? or would it make more sense to look at 1991-2004 and 2005-2012?
for the life of me why is it if ANYONE questions the quality of our team versus our schedules they think "we suck"?
nobody said "we suck"
nobody said "we have NOT improved under Doc"
nobody said "the program is going down hill"
there is a direct correlation to our number of wins going up and our schedule quality going down. it is simple math... or statistics.......
and guess what? i can say that without thinking we suck, without thinking we should fire Doc (i hope he retires here), and without thinking we haven't improved dramatically...
nobody said "we suck"
nobody said "we have NOT improved under Doc"
nobody said "the program is going down hill"
there is a direct correlation to our number of wins going up and our schedule quality going down. it is simple math... or statistics.......
and guess what? i can say that without thinking we suck, without thinking we should fire Doc (i hope he retires here), and without thinking we haven't improved dramatically...
you want to discredit this team for winning 9 games because of our poor schedule. what you fail to realize is outside of a couple big wins and a couple of upsets, that's all we've done since moving up in '97.
in mac regular season from 97-02 we went 42-6, which is damn impressive, but of those 42 wins only 14 came against teams that finished the year with a winning record, and of those 14 that finished with a winning record just 4 of them finished the season more than 2 games above .500.
if you count all games, we won 65 games from 97-02, of those 65 wins, only 8 came against fbs opponents that finished more than 2 games above .500. on the flip side, 26 of those wins came against fcs or fbs teams that finished with no more than 2 wins.
Ohio Herd, not quite correct here. The YEAR BEFORE Doc took over, 2009, the Herd finished 7-6. A WINNING RECORD. Thanks to a bowl win over Ohio U., yes THAT Ohio U. Team led by Coach Minter, not the fired Mark Snyder. Herd fans surely should remember that, especially since wins over OU have been few and far between under Doc!!
Another fact: MU is a LOT SMALLER than almost ALL the other public universities in CUSA, except for maybe Southern Miss. Other publics have enrollments of 20,000 to around 50,000 or so. All of them have budgets commensurate with their enrollments, that is, much larger than MU's
yes, hate to break it to you but i agree 100%......
maybe you mis-read something i typed and got the idea that i think our teams from the MAC (and the MAC overall) is/was much better than our current situation........
sorry buddy but what in the world does student enrollment have to do with this discussion. I should have said regular season. I could also point out then that the 2009 was a senior laden team so what. So are you tryng to say that Doc took over a team filled with star power? Finally, what does that have to do with this discussion here. I am talking about SOS 1997-2002 vs today. The assumption being made here is the only reason we are winning is because the schedule has lightened up since ECU and UCF and crew left. My point is our current SOS is very similar to what it was during our time in the MAC. For the record, that same Ohio U has a much larger enrollment and a athletic budget only slightly larger than ours for whatever that is worth.
