U.S. Healthcare

[Y.A.G Si Ye Nots]

Since we never talk about healthcare and socialized medicine on here, I thought I'd make another thread about it.

I went to an F1 race today with a friend. He had a box/suite (not sure what it is called) and invited me to join him with two of his other friends, a married couple, who are from London. The married couple just moved to Palo Alto in January from London. The husband is an M.D. at Stanford. While explaining their transition to getting used to living in the U.S., she made a point to mention how they just can't understand the obsession with guns here. She understands it is in our constitution, etc., but they just can't fathom how reasonable people would be fine with such minor restrictions on obtaining them, owning them, etc. (which is a very common shared sentiment with anyone from outside of the country). From there, she said the biggest thing her husband is having an issue with is his role as a doctor in terms of ethics here. She said that they both love that he makes a lot more money practicing here than back home. However, she said that as much as they love the city they are in, love the bigger income, and love raising their two songs abroad, she thinks he will want to go elsewhere because of the ethics surrounding our healthcare system.

When I asked her to explain more, she said that even at a top hospital like where he works, he routinely sees the lower access to preventative care AND post-care for patients from lower incomes. She said that is entirely different from back home for him where all patients, regardless of income, get treated with the best they have available. For those in this country, she said that certain insurance and lack of insurance prohibits that for many of his patients.

 

[i am herdman]

How did you hear each other over the race cars?

 

[Y.A.G Si Ye Nots]

How did you hear each other over the race cars?

We didn't need to. We used sign language . . . Native American Sign Language.

But even if we didn't, the suite was enclosed in glass except for the upstairs viewing deck.

 

[Bankerreturns]

That conversation was way too limited in scope with you apparently not asking any critical questions of her. Of course you wouldn't because everything she said supported your already held beliefs.

 

[Y.A.G Si Ye Nots]

That conversation was way too limited in scope with you apparently not asking any critical questions of her. Of course you wouldn't because everything she said supported your already held beliefs.

What more do you want me to ask? He is a specialist of some sort in pediatrics. It isn't rocket science. Capitalism in terms of health insurance simply doesn't work. Healthcare costs, without government intervention, are simply too high for insurers/employers to include those with pre-existing conditions.

Our health is not something that should be monetized.

 

[big_country90]

What more do you want me to ask? He is a specialist of some sort in pediatrics. It isn't rocket science. Capitalism in terms of health insurance simply doesn't work. Healthcare costs, without government intervention, are simply too high for insurers/employers to include those with pre-existing conditions.

Our health is not something that should be monetized.

Government is exactly the reason why healthcare costs are high. Ditto college tuition, student loans, and anything else it attempts to run. Why do grown men and women not understand this?

And health insurance is a financial tool, just like a loan or an investment. Always has been...always will be. Tell your friends to enjoy all that money. They earned it.

 

[murox]

What more do you want me to ask? He is a specialist of some sort in pediatrics. It isn't rocket science. Capitalism in terms of health insurance simply doesn't work. Healthcare costs, without government intervention, are simply too high for insurers/employers to include those with pre-existing conditions.

Our health is not something that should be monetized.

America has the best healthcare system in the world, by far, and it's because of capitalism. It's not perfect, and it could be improved, but it's infinitely better than a system that rations care. It's funny that a foreign doctor would disparage the US system when he himself left his home country to practice here. We attract the best and brightest physicians and nurses, have the best medical schools and teaching hospitals, have the best diagnostic tools and equipment, and our healthcare facilities are far more technologically advanced.

Third party payer isn't optimal. Prices for treatment should be advertised and healthcare providers should be competitive to drive down costs. Insurance should be used for catastrophic claims only.

 

[countryroads89]

How did you hear each other over the race cars?

He said he was in a box/suite.

You're a genius.

 

[countryroads89]

America has the best healthcare system in the world, by far, and it's because of capitalism. It's not perfect, and it could be improved, but it's infinitely better than a system that rations care. It's funny that a foreign doctor would disparage the US system when he himself left his home country to practice here. We attract the best and brightest physicians and nurses, have the best medical schools and teaching hospitals, have the best diagnostic tools and equipment, and our healthcare facilities are far more technologically advanced.

Third party payer isn't optimal. Prices for treatment should be advertised and healthcare providers should be competitive to drive down costs. Insurance should be used for catastrophic claims only.

Is this a joke?

 

[Raoul Duke MU]

Government is exactly the reason why healthcare costs are high. Ditto college tuition, student loans, and anything else it attempts to run. Why do grown men and women not understand this?

And health insurance is a financial tool, just like a loan or an investment. Always has been...always will be. Tell your friends to enjoy all that money. They earned it.

Good morning, Ayn. Please tell us more about how much better the world would be without government and us ungrateful poors.

 

[murox]

Is this a joke?

I was going to explain why I’m correct but I’d rather hear which country you believe has the best healthcare system in the world.

 

[countryroads89]

I was going to explain why I’m correct but I’d rather hear which country you believe has the best healthcare system in the world.

This study puts the US at 29. A far cry from "by far the best."

https://www.iflscience.com/health-a...ry-global-ranking-nations-healthcare-systems/

 

[ohio herd]

This study puts the US at 29. A far cry from "by far the best."

https://www.iflscience.com/health-a...ry-global-ranking-nations-healthcare-systems/

LOL So where would you rather live and be treated at is the question. Look at this chart:
http://hospitals.webometrics.info/en/world

Nobody has better health care that touches peoples lives than the USA. Any other metric you use to try and prove we have bad health care is a joke.

 

[herdfan429]

This study puts the US at 29. A far cry from "by far the best."

https://www.iflscience.com/health-a...ry-global-ranking-nations-healthcare-systems/

I ****ing love science is your source?!?!?!

 

[WV-FAN]

This study puts the US at 29. A far cry from "by far the best."

https://www.iflscience.com/health-a...ry-global-ranking-nations-healthcare-systems/

really, you should grasp the debt/deficit concept before moving onto something this far over your head.

 

[big_country90]

Good morning, Ayn. Please tell us more about how much better the world would be without government and us ungrateful poors.

You would first have to understand the role of government as our founding fathers intended, which you don’t.

 

[Y.A.G Si Ye Nots]

You would first have to understand the role of government as our founding fathers intended, which you don’t.

Up until a few years ago, you thought our planet was only about 6000 years old. Nobody who thought that should be claiming others don't understand certain things that they do.

We attract the best and brightest physicians and nurses, have the best medical schools and teaching hospitals, have the best diagnostic tools and equipment, and our healthcare facilities are far more technologically advanced.
.

You forgot the biggest factor in that: only if you can afford them.

As his wife said, he has trouble accepting the lack of ethics behind the world's biggest economy giving inferior medical care to people based on how much they can pay.

Government is exactly the reason why healthcare costs are high. Ditto college tuition, student loans, and anything else it attempts to run. Why do grown men and women not understand this?

Because without government, our poor would be facing an even worse predicament when it comes to healthcare than they are now. Oh, wait: There are enough charities that would be able to cover the cost of chemo for a poor woman. I forgot. Just like there are enough charities to cover those coal miner's who lost their jobs in southern WV to still be able to pay their mortgage and feed their children, right?

And health insurance is a financial tool, just like a loan or an investment. Always has been...always will be. Tell your friends to enjoy all that money. They earned it.

And it shouldn't be. That's the entire argument. Just because something "is" doesn't mean it should be like that.

 

[Raoul Duke MU]

You would first have to understand the role of government as our founding fathers intended, which you don’t.

In order to have this conversation about the Founding Fathers and health care, you would first have to understand that health care then consisted of bleeding and putting the leaches on you. I am pretty sure they could not even fathom a world in which government might have an interest in that. They did, however, give the government power over the essential services of the day: the post, defense, and transportation (National Road, control of navigable waters). Hmmm......

However, since you are such a fan of the Founders, so knowledgeable of their thoughts, and keen on following their philosophies, I must ask you exactly why in the fvck would you work for a huge bank, given their thoughts on powerful banks and the central banking system in which you participate and draw profit from.

 

[ThunderCat98]

They did, however, give the government power over the essential services of the day: the post, defense, and transportation (National Road, control of navigable waters). Hmmm......

That is an incredibly weak argument. Healthcare is, was, and always will be an important consideration for mankind. The fact that the Founders did not expressly establish any means or manner for government-sponsored healthcare speaks volumes. To act like healthcare wasn't important in those times because of the limitations of science and medical knowledge is intellectually dishonest.

 

[Herdfaninnoke]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.fo...mpared-to-other-countries-are-misleading/amp/

 

[Herdfaninnoke]

About 5 years ago I traveled to Germany with David Kong MD from Duke university (brilliant interventional cardiologist). We were sent to review healthcare there and cost control. While in the Cath lab we witnessed a STEMI patient come in and sadly pass away. After the room began to clear we asked who would inform the family. The answer was if this was a cash paying patient the doctor would go out and inform the family if it was govt healthcare patient a tech would notify them.

 

[countryroads89]

That is an incredibly weak argument. Healthcare is, was, and always will be an important consideration for mankind. The fact that the Founders did not expressly establish any means or manner for government-sponsored healthcare speaks volumes. To act like healthcare wasn't important in those times because of the limitations of science and medical knowledge is intellectually dishonest.

Oh my f'ucking god.

You are going to try to make the argument, that the founding fathers, in a time when practicing medicine consisted of checking temperature, pulse and heartbeat and prescribing some damn "serum or tonic" wouldn't advocate for healthcare insurance, subsidized medicine, or even universal healthcare? The cost of a doctor's call in those days was probably one-day's wages for the average person. Healthcare costs today, depending on the treatment, could be several times more than the cost of someone's home.

 

[big_country90]

Just because something "is" doesn't mean it should be like that

Without it being a financial tool, it wouldn’t exist.

 

[Raoul Duke MU]

That is an incredibly weak argument. Healthcare is, was, and always will be an important consideration for mankind. The fact that the Founders did not expressly establish any means or manner for government-sponsored healthcare speaks volumes. To act like healthcare wasn't important in those times because of the limitations of science and medical knowledge is intellectually dishonest.

There were two hospitals in the entire United States at the time. The thought that health care could be 17% of the GDP was as foreign to the Founders as the concept of airplanes.

 

[countryroads89]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.fo...mpared-to-other-countries-are-misleading/amp/

You posted a Forbes magazine article, which said an article of the Journal of the American Medical Association (a peer-reviewed article and association) was misleading. The JAMA article basically said healthcare in the US is more costly than other high-income countries and is of less quality.

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/article-abstract/2674671?redirect=true

Thanks for supporting my argument that said murox is full of shit in his post 7 "America has the best healthcare system in the world, by far, and it's because of capitalism."

 

[Y.A.G Si Ye Nots]

That is an incredibly weak argument. Healthcare is, was, and always will be an important consideration for mankind. The fact that the Founders did not expressly establish any means or manner for government-sponsored healthcare speaks volumes. To act like healthcare wasn't important in those times because of the limitations of science and medical knowledge is intellectually dishonest.

Seriously, what type of law do you practice? Your reasoning abilities and lack of foreseeing arguments to your stance makes me think that Texas Southern Law would have turned you down.

 

[i am herdman]

Who goes to a race and talks about national healthcare?

 

[ThunderCat98]

There were two hospitals in the entire United States at the time. The thought that health care could be 17% of the GDP was as foreign to the Founders as the concept of airplanes.

Hold on. First libs tell us healthcare is a basic human right that shouldn't be about money. Now you want to argue it's place in the GDP? Either it's a basic human right (it's not) or it is about money (it is).

 

[ThunderCat98]

Seriously, what type of law do you practice? Your reasoning abilities and lack of foreseeing arguments to your stance makes me think that Texas Southern Law would have turned you down.

Don't you have some Gatorade bottles to fill in between mixing some beats and discussing campaign strategy with Beto and Tom Green?

 

[Y.A.G Si Ye Nots]

Who goes to a race and talks about national healthcare?

I was only there for Britney Spears. I was going up later that afternoon anyways, so accepting the invite to go watch cars drive around was fine. I wasn't there for the race but rather the catered food and the girls.

And this is Formula 1, not NASCAR. There tends to be a far higher class of people at the former.

Don't you have some Gatorade bottles to fill in between mixing some beats and discussing campaign strategy with Beto and Tom Green?

I believe that most schools are Powerade. I also don't mix or master "beats." That is what engineers are experts at doing. I just produce and have gotten into writing hooks. It's why, when not at home, I have voice notes full of melodies, lyrics, and cuts from the Garage Band app when something comes to me when I am away from my keyboard/computer.

And I never discussed campaign strategy with Beto other than getting some musicians involved to publicly support him.

 

[Y.A.G Si Ye Nots]

Without it being a financial tool, it wouldn’t exist.

And it doesn't need to exist considering it is used to monetize the health of people.

Americans should not have the quality of healthcare, or healthcare at all, based on their ability to pay for it.

 

[i am herdman]

I was only there for Britney Spears. I was going up later that afternoon anyways, so accepting the invite to go watch cars drive around was fine. I wasn't there for the race but rather the catered food and the girls.

And this is Formula 1, not NASCAR. There tends to be a far higher class of people at the former.



I believe that most schools are Powerade. I also don't mix or master "beats." That is what engineers are experts at doing. I just produce and have gotten into writing hooks. It's why, when not at home, I have voice notes full of melodies, lyrics, and cuts from the Garage Band app when something comes to me when I am away from my keyboard/computer.

And I never discussed campaign strategy with Beto other than getting some musicians involved to publicly support him.

Were you going to hear Spears sing? Best line ever was a guy who called into the local radio station and said, "Brittany Spears. She can't sing worth a lick but, I would stuff her like a Christmas Turkey." They played that over and over on their commercials.

If you want to go to a real race go see a dirt track race. The topics of discussions are far better than what you had a a F1 race.

 

[Y.A.G Si Ye Nots]

Were you going to hear Spears sing?

No, I was going to look at her tits and congratulate her on her deal announced a couple of days ago in which she became the highest paid performer in Vegas (topping Celine Dion, Boyz II Men, etc.). She is getting $500,000 for every show during her new Vegas residency. I'm sure she was doing quite well during her last residency there, too.

If you want to go to a real race go see a dirt track race. The topics of discussions are far better than what you had a a F1 race.

I have no desire to go to any race other than to look at T&A (or any good food they may have).

 

[herdfan429]

And I never discussed campaign strategy with Beto other than getting some musicians involved to publicly support him.

We all know you produced and wrote this little track

 

[sistersville]

We have neighbors from London England who moved here to get better medical care. Socialized medicine is horrible.

 

[sistersville]

No, I was going to look at her tits and congratulate her on her deal announced a couple of days ago in which she became the highest paid performer in Vegas (topping Celine Dion, Boyz II Men, etc.). She is getting $500,000 for every show during her new Vegas residency. I'm sure she was doing quite well during her last residency there, too.




I have no desire to go to any race other than to look at T&A (or any good food they may have).

Rifle your are telling tall tales on every post. Can't go to the bathroom without lying and telling us you Pissed next to Mick Jagger.

 

[Raoul Duke MU]

Hold on. First libs tell us healthcare is a basic human right that shouldn't be about money. Now you want to argue it's place in the GDP? Either it's a basic human right (it's not) or it is about money (it is).

WTF? I am merely pointing out that there was zero reason for the Founding Fathers to even consider health care. It damn near did not exist.

I'm pretty sure if you made a time machine, went back to the Constitutional Convention, and convinced those guys that one day we would have flying machines with 42k flights moving 2.5 million people through the sky on a daily basis that they would say "Holy shit, yeah the government might want to get a handle on that."

But indeed they did have interest in the few big things of the day. I've named a few. I'm sure a private postal service would have been profitable (in fact, the first such services in the Colonies were private businesses). Yet there it is there in the Constitution...along with the authorization of public roads.

BC's post was silly. Health care is expensive because of the cost of specialized knowledge and technology. Nations with more government involvement in health care actually have less expensive health care. It was a silly post based on simplistic notions and zero emperical evidence.

 

[raleighherdfan]

, regardless of income, get treated with the best they have available.

"The best they have available" may not always be the best we have here.

Sounds like "ethically" he should take a pay cut and move back over to London if he is so torn up about it. (These articles show why maybe he decided to come here).

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...ortages-hospital-ward-shortages-a8172821.html

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2018/jan/25/nhs-hospitals-serious-shortages-vital-equipment

 

[19MU88]

We have neighbors from London England who moved here to get better medical care. Socialized medicine is horrible.

More proof our health care system is great. Sisters is really improving after his head injury, you can see the improvement as you can understand what he types.

 

[Y.A.G Si Ye Nots]

Sounds like "ethically" he should take a pay cut and move back over to London if he is so torn up about it. (These articles show why maybe he decided to come here)

Yeah, I noted that in the original post. She like Palo Alto and the higher income, but she thinks he is going to want to move back due to the ethical thing.

Your first article is due to doctor shortages, not a reason why they are leaving. Christ.