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We Aren't Done With UAB

riflearm2

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Dec 8, 2004
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As we all agree, there are too many horrendous coaching decisions to discuss them all, but there are a few huge ones that stand out to me:

1) After Marshall allowed its first TD, go back and watch the effort given on the extra point. It's awful. While coaching, the one thing I would look in effort more than anything was the extra point block unit. That's a small part of the game which could end up having a big impact. It's the one play people tend to slack off. Marshall had five of their 11 players on the field give a shit effort after the very first TD. Now, three of them are assigned to play safety in case of a fake, but at the least, they should be close to the line appearing to be rushing to 1) possibly confuse the blocking 2) not show their hand about who/where will be playing safety. It also means at least three others gave a shit effort.

2) I don't think coming out and throwing Wells was a bad idea at all. Yes, Marshall should ride Knox, but the offense has to be somewhat balanced, and coming out throwing was a way to negate what UAB expected for all week. Even better, they gave Wells an easy throw to start off. However, after the second series, it was obvious that he was not comfortable in the pocket in any way. He continued to fade on his throws, throw off of his back foot, and make poor throws. Why? There could be many reasons. What's the easiest way to help out a QB in that situation? GET HIM OUT OF THE FVCKING POCKET! Grant can run. Make it very easy on him. Roll him out and allow him a much easier decision. By rolling him out, you provide a ton of benefits for him:

-He doesn't have to read the whole field. He gets to cut the field in half . . . and that doesn't mean the defense only has to defend half of the field, as Wells can roll right or left, meaning the other side the defense still has to cover their side of the field. By rolling out, Wells gets a very easy read (#1 option to #2 option to run it himself). Hell, since Marshall does a "look back offense" (where they call a play and look back at the sideline to see what play they really want to run based on the defense), you can easily relay to Grant what his read is. You can read a play "top-down" where his first look is the deep receiver, "bottom up" to get the ball out quicker to the short route, or a few other easy reads. Wells wouldn't even have to read what type of coverage the defense is. The coach sees it pre-snap and tells him how to read it. You can teach a dog to do it. The downside is that he won't have options #3 and #4 to throw to, but he wasn't going through his whole progression regardless, so nothing would change in that respect.

-Protection: by rolling him out, he loses almost all responsibilities for setting or knowing protection. If there is a blitz opposite his roll, he is running away from it. No problem. If there is a blitz on the side he is rolling, the only thing he needs to make sure of is that it isn't an outside blitz (and if so, if he has a RB who can reach the outside shoulder of that blitzer). Roll him out and he has barely any responsibilities for protection.

-Vision: Having a bunch of offense linemen and hands from defensive linemen can be tough to see over. Roll him out and give him a clear view.

-Run: The kid can run for a QB. If he doesn't like his easy passing read, just tuck the ball and slide after a four yard gain.

I have no idea why it took Cramsey until the third quarter to start doing this, but when he actually started doing it, Marshall moved the ball.

3) Receivers: I am still extremely under impressed by Marshall's wideouts. And it has nothing to do with production or non-production. Basic things like spacing and route running are poor. It doesn't appear that they are being coached on drawing pass interference penalties. The easiest way to help a struggling passing game is to under throw a ball or throw back-shoulder, which allows receivers to easily draw a pass interference against the defense. I didn't see any effort of Marshall receivers doing that. I was extremely against that coaching hire, and I have seen nothing to change my mind based on how the receivers play. Perhaps the receivers coach brings something to the table that I am not aware of, but his resume (which, to me, is game film of his receivers) lacks a lot.

4) Quitters: This is my biggest gripe. Doc quit. It explains his team's lack of effort and his team quitting in their scheduled game against Charlotte. Marshall had two timeouts left after tackling UAB with 1:38 left in the game. The timeout would have stopped the clock at 2nd-and-6 with 1:38. Another run, which UAB did, would have allowed Marshall to use its final timeout with 1:34 remaining. That would have forced UAB to possibly throw it on third down, possibly resulting in an incompletion (stopping the clock and bringing up 4th down). Even if they decide to run the ball and Marshall stops it, UAB would have ran the clock all of the way down and either gone for it on 4th down or attempted a field goal to make it a 12 point game. Even if they ran the clock down and didn't throw it on third down, Marshall would have had the ball back with about 50 seconds to go (or possibly about 1:25 if UAB decided to throw it on third down).

Now, is it likely that Marshall would score a TD in 40 seconds allowing them for a chance to kick an onside and still have time for a Hail-Mary or long field goal? No. But we've all seen many crazier things happen each week than a team scoring a TD in 40 seconds.

He quit. There is no other way to put it. With two timeouts, down 9 points, and 1:38 on the clock, he fvcking quit.

And @Aaron Perkins used to argue with people and critique coaches frequently on here when they wouldn't call a timeout with 10 seconds on the clock by saying the offense could fumble a snap on the final kneel-down, so I am curious to hear him justify Doc on this one.
 
As we all agree, there are too many horrendous coaching decisions to discuss them all, but there are a few huge ones that stand out to me:

1) After Marshall allowed its first TD, go back and watch the effort given on the extra point. It's awful. While coaching, the one thing I would look in effort more than anything was the extra point block unit. That's a small part of the game which could end up having a big impact. It's the one play people tend to slack off. Marshall had five of their 11 players on the field give a shit effort after the very first TD. Now, three of them are assigned to play safety in case of a fake, but at the least, they should be close to the line appearing to be rushing to 1) possibly confuse the blocking 2) not show their hand about who/where will be playing safety. It also means at least three others gave a shit effort.

2) I don't think coming out and throwing Wells was a bad idea at all. Yes, Marshall should ride Knox, but the offense has to be somewhat balanced, and coming out throwing was a way to negate what UAB expected for all week. Even better, they gave Wells an easy throw to start off. However, after the second series, it was obvious that he was not comfortable in the pocket in any way. He continued to fade on his throws, throw off of his back foot, and make poor throws. Why? There could be many reasons. What's the easiest way to help out a QB in that situation? GET HIM OUT OF THE FVCKING POCKET! Grant can run. Make it very easy on him. Roll him out and allow him a much easier decision. By rolling him out, you provide a ton of benefits for him:

-He doesn't have to read the whole field. He gets to cut the field in half . . . and that doesn't mean the defense only has to defend half of the field, as Wells can roll right or left, meaning the other side the defense still has to cover their side of the field. By rolling out, Wells gets a very easy read (#1 option to #2 option to run it himself). Hell, since Marshall does a "look back offense" (where they call a play and look back at the sideline to see what play they really want to run based on the defense), you can easily relay to Grant what his read is. You can read a play "top-down" where his first look is the deep receiver, "bottom up" to get the ball out quicker to the short route, or a few other easy reads. Wells wouldn't even have to read what type of coverage the defense is. The coach sees it pre-snap and tells him how to read it. You can teach a dog to do it. The downside is that he won't have options #3 and #4 to throw to, but he wasn't going through his whole progression regardless, so nothing would change in that respect.

-Protection: by rolling him out, he loses almost all responsibilities for setting or knowing protection. If there is a blitz opposite his roll, he is running away from it. No problem. If there is a blitz on the side he is rolling, the only thing he needs to make sure of is that it isn't an outside blitz (and if so, if he has a RB who can reach the outside shoulder of that blitzer). Roll him out and he has barely any responsibilities for protection.

-Vision: Having a bunch of offense linemen and hands from defensive linemen can be tough to see over. Roll him out and give him a clear view.

-Run: The kid can run for a QB. If he doesn't like his easy passing read, just tuck the ball and slide after a four yard gain.

I have no idea why it took Cramsey until the third quarter to start doing this, but when he actually started doing it, Marshall moved the ball.

3) Receivers: I am still extremely under impressed by Marshall's wideouts. And it has nothing to do with production or non-production. Basic things like spacing and route running are poor. It doesn't appear that they are being coached on drawing pass interference penalties. The easiest way to help a struggling passing game is to under throw a ball or throw back-shoulder, which allows receivers to easily draw a pass interference against the defense. I didn't see any effort of Marshall receivers doing that. I was extremely against that coaching hire, and I have seen nothing to change my mind based on how the receivers play. Perhaps the receivers coach brings something to the table that I am not aware of, but his resume (which, to me, is game film of his receivers) lacks a lot.

4) Quitters: This is my biggest gripe. Doc quit. It explains his team's lack of effort and his team quitting in their scheduled game against Charlotte. Marshall had two timeouts left after tackling UAB with 1:38 left in the game. The timeout would have stopped the clock at 2nd-and-6 with 1:38. Another run, which UAB did, would have allowed Marshall to use its final timeout with 1:34 remaining. That would have forced UAB to possibly throw it on third down, possibly resulting in an incompletion (stopping the clock and bringing up 4th down). Even if they decide to run the ball and Marshall stops it, UAB would have ran the clock all of the way down and either gone for it on 4th down or attempted a field goal to make it a 12 point game. Even if they ran the clock down and didn't throw it on third down, Marshall would have had the ball back with about 50 seconds to go (or possibly about 1:25 if UAB decided to throw it on third down).

Now, is it likely that Marshall would score a TD in 40 seconds allowing them for a chance to kick an onside and still have time for a Hail-Mary or long field goal? No. But we've all seen many crazier things happen each week than a team scoring a TD in 40 seconds.

He quit. There is no other way to put it. With two timeouts, down 9 points, and 1:38 on the clock, he fvcking quit.

And @Aaron Perkins used to argue with people and critique coaches frequently on here when they wouldn't call a timeout with 10 seconds on the clock by saying the offense could fumble a snap on the final kneel-down, so I am curious to hear him justify Doc on this one.
That's the most disappointing thing. They coaching staff quit. Screw that. Go out fighting and try to win. Always.

I wonder if we backed out the game with Charlotte? Wouldn't surprise me.
 
I wonder if we backed out the game with Charlotte? Wouldn't surprise me.

I think the evidence of that is pretty clear at this point.

And to Rifles point, the fact that it took us until the third quarter to start cutting the field in half for Wells was absolutely egregious. That’s not some masterful adjustment required to be completed at halftime. That’s struggling young QB 101.

When grant is thinking and not sure where to go with the ball, his mechanics break down and he misses easy passes and makes poor decisions. See the beginning of App state and MTSU games. When he’s settled and is confident in where to go with the ball, he throws the best ball we’ve seen here in years. The fact that the staff just leaves him out there to founder until the defense is gassed is inexcusable.
 
You might as well set your i-phones on a 16 hour timer. Aaron & Sam + the rest of the ass kissers squad don’t reply to negative threads on Mondays. I think it is specifically spoken in their blood oath to Doc.....look for well thought out 4th drafts of their defenseless defenses on Tuesday.

One possible post? “We haven’t had this few losses going into our bowl game since 2014. Doc did a helluva job keeping the players united and laser focused all season.”
🤮
 
You might as well set your i-phones on a 16 hour timer. Aaron & Sam + the rest of the ass kissers squad don’t reply to negative threads on Mondays. I think it is specifically spoken in their blood oath to Doc.....look for well thought out 4th drafts of their defenseless defenses on Tuesday.

One possible post? “We haven’t had this few losses going into our bowl game since 2014. Doc did a helluva job keeping the players united and laser focused all season.”
🤮
Where do I send them their Christmas gift

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Buffalo is spotting the Herd 3.5 points on a line I saw last night. I'm not suggesting betting one way or the other, but I know which way I would go, but I'm waiting to see the injury report come out in a couple of days.
 
Buffalo is spotting the Herd 3.5 points on a line I saw last night. I'm not suggesting betting one way or the other, but I know which way I would go, but I'm waiting to see the injury report come out in a couple of days.
You won't get a Marshall injury report.
 
Imagine how different the end of the year might have been if we still had Eli Sammons on campus, nevermind if Isaiah Green wasn't sitting on a couch somewhere twirling his dreads.

They ought to give POY to Luke Zban for being so chipper about holding that clipboard. He was my rock during the UAB game - if Luke's cool with this, I can be cool with this.
 
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I was telling the guys with me that we should have Wells roll out. Dink them and pick up 5, 10 yards a clip then all of a sudden you break one. The way UABs defense would line up we could call an audible by just looking at their alignment and gash their defense. When was the last time we went over the middle? Always sideline pass routes.
 
"We lose only 2 games this whole season, make it to a bowl game against an elite MAC program and you guys dare to complain?" "Only Marshall fans; they'll complain about anything!"

*Aaron Perkins, circa tomorrow - noonish
You obviously aren’t friends with him on Facebook
 
The only scenario I can think of in this particular instance is a misunderstanding with someone’s girlfriend. Somebody humped someone’s girl 😂 .
 
Are you implying Perkins is complaining about Marshall losing the past 2 games? I call bullshit.

@BleedsGreen33 can you verify what 429 is claiming? Or is he full of shit, as usual?

I'm guessing the pedophiliac body rubber was talking about your comment that AP wouldn't make those comments until tomorrow. Within an hour of the game, he was defending Doc on Facebook.
 
I'm guessing the pedophiliac body rubber was talking about your comment that AP wouldn't make those comments until tomorrow. Within an hour of the game, he was defending Doc on Facebook.

Yet, my post was responding to this:

You might as well set your i-phones on a 16 hour timer. Aaron & Sam + the rest of the ass kissers squad don’t reply to negative threads on Mondays. I think it is specifically spoken in their blood oath to Doc.....
 
Yet, my post was responding to this:

What does that have to do with anything? W-S said they wouldn't respond today. You said AP would start defending and making those comments sometime around noon tomorrow. The child body rubber said that you clearly haven't been reading AP's Facebook comments. You misinterpreted that to believe that AP wasn't defending Marshall/Shewey for once. I clarified what I thought the child body rubber meant. Now, you're saying that your comment was in response to W-S, which doesn't change the fact that the child body rubber was correcting your comment about tomorrow . . . and that doesn't even mention the fact that if you're responding to somebody, you should quote them. Christ - are you new to this message board thing?
 
What does that have to do with anything? W-S said they wouldn't respond today. You said AP would start defending and making those comments sometime around noon tomorrow. The child body rubber said that you clearly haven't been reading AP's Facebook comments. You misinterpreted that to believe that AP wasn't defending Marshall/Shewey for once. I clarified what I thought the child body rubber meant. Now, you're saying that your comment was in response to W-S, which doesn't change the fact that the child body rubber was correcting your comment about tomorrow . . . and that doesn't even mention the fact that if you're responding to somebody, you should quote them. Christ - are you new to this message board thing?


What's wrong? Coach Stowers not giving you any attention, so you're acting out toward others?
 
Rifle, that is my pet peeve for sure. It typically doesnt cross my mind when the difference is two scores, but I do hate when coaches do not call those timeouts.

I have watched too many highlights in my 47 years on this planet to know that there is a chance something crazy could happen. There is no chance of it happening if you dont call the timeouts.

Yes, didnt like that, but I will admit, it didnt cross my mind this time.

As for everything else said about me, or my opinion in this thread. I thank you all. Clearly I have done a fantastic job of being true to what I believe in.

Doc Holliday has done an excellent job at Marshall. I have said it a thousand times. Doc told us the day he put on the kelly green sport coat that his number one goal was to "build us a program."

He has

No sanctions. Very little issues with the authorities. Players are graduating. We are winning football games. We are making it to post season play. He has made it to three CUSA Championship Games. He has hired coaches that have went on to bigger schools. He hasnt made our program or school look stupid in the public eye.

He loves it here. He loves YOUR program.

I can say it over and over and over again. But many of you have personal agendas against him, or others. And the rest of you just dont understand how sports work, and you never will.

I will continue to stick around and try to lead you in the right direction, but I highly doubt any of you will come around. The bulk of you guys waited all season long for a trip up. you got it, and BAM, back to posting.

Have a very Merry Christmas, and a Happy New Year. and GO HERD!!!
 
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No sanctions. Very little issues with the authorities. Players are graduating. We are winning football games. We are making it to post season play. He has made it to three CUSA Championship Games. He has hired coaches that have went on to bigger schools. He hasnt made our program or school look stupid in the public eye.
Sounds like the Herd program is almost identical to that of Northwestern.
 
No sanctions. Very little issues with the authorities. Players are graduating. We are winning football games. We are making it to post season play. He has made it to three CUSA Championship Games. He has hired coaches that have went on to bigger schools. He hasnt made our program or school look stupid in the public eye.

And here lies the disconnect between the "insiders" who love the coaching staff/administration... and the guys who want them ridden out on a rail.

If the above was the goal for a college football program, Duke and Stanford would be the two most revered programs in the country – Not many guys are getting arrested? We are fourth in CUSA in graduation rate? We win games but never win big games? Our coaches leave for better jobs elsewhere? We don't routinely look bad on WSAZ?

Is that really what we are striving for as program?... If it is, that is incredibly sad and we should just be happy to battle it out with the other FBS bottom feeders in CUSA to get to a bowl game every year. Mission accomplished!

I'm not an irrational fanatic that thinks Marshall should be winning the league every season, or ranked in the top 15, or anything like that. But at the same time, I want to get the most out of the premier program at our university. We get close and choke – It's a story we have all seen too many times and the one constant over the years is the guy wearing the headset.

Keep Doc, fire Doc, I honestly couldn't care less. I will be at the Joan next year either way. But don't settle for the goals listed above.
 
Not implying those are the only goals. Simply saying that those things are important, and are being maintained.

This has nothing to do with being an "insider who loves the staff," etc.

We need to all get together to build this program. And that starts with being proud of it. The list I gave are things to be genuinely proud of.
 
Is that really what we are striving for as program?... If it is, that is incredibly sad and we should just be happy to battle it out with the other FBS bottom feeders in CUSA to get to a bowl game every year. Mission accomplished!


Aaron sees Marshall Football in the same regard as intramural sports. Our players evidently are only doing this for the camaraderie and the free tuition.
 
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