With just 7 games left. Will Dan guide this team to 20 wins?
- Thread starter BleedsGreen33
- Start date
Wow , looks like I have a lot of company - 7 votes (all NO) and no one has yet to even jokingly vote yes. Oh yee of little faith ( including me ) I think with 7 to go 3 wins 4 losses.
Losses - MTSU / UAB / WKU , ODU
Wins - NTSU -kinda like the LSU of the SEC , possibly Charlotte but Rice will be a toss up
So
That could actually be 5 losses and 2 wins. End result , we might squeak over the 500 line prior to going to CUSA and probably coming right back to Htown after one game...that is embarrassing as CUSA is not like the AAC , Big East , SEC , ACC , Big 12 and 10 along with the PAC12 conferences that have multiple teams ranked.
Losses - MTSU / UAB / WKU , ODU
Wins - NTSU -kinda like the LSU of the SEC , possibly Charlotte but Rice will be a toss up
So
That could actually be 5 losses and 2 wins. End result , we might squeak over the 500 line prior to going to CUSA and probably coming right back to Htown after one game...that is embarrassing as CUSA is not like the AAC , Big East , SEC , ACC , Big 12 and 10 along with the PAC12 conferences that have multiple teams ranked.
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Year three, no progress in results, no recruits of note in the pipeline to help the defense or offense inside. So many folks predicted that roundball turnaround is possible within three years. Didn't happen here. Recruiting matters; in basketball it is easier to get the little good guys than the big good guys. Sounds a lot like football; easier to get the smaller skill player than the bigger, must have interior linemen on both sides of the ball.
All you have to do is look at some of the examples around CUSA. LA Tech loses a successful head coach (White) to Florida. However, their AD does his job, rolls up his sleeves, hustles and lands a top assistant from Miami Florida as head coach. Now in second season, the Tech team is headed for a second straight 20+ win season and probable post season play again. New Coach was a long time assistant with Jim Larranaga at Miami and at George Mason when the Patriots were in the FINAL FOUR!!! In other words experience at the HIGHEST COLLEGIATE LEVEL!!
Another example: Jeff Jones, former head coach at Virginia in the ACC and at American U., is in 4th year as head man at ODU. Has had his team in post season the first 3 years; team has the best attendance in the conference, I believe. Jones believes post season, even CBI and CIT, is valuable both in recruiting and for team's development next season!! Oh, and we all know that, in only their 4th FBS season, ODU's football has caught up with the Herd, or, as 2016 showed, surpassed us in that sport. Remember all those on these type sites who moaned and groaned that you could JUST NOT have BOTH successful FOOTBALL and BASKETBALL at our level?
As for the Herd, well we hired a guy who coached high school decades ago, but says his goal is to win the NCAA. Yet, following early Herd exits from the conference tournament his main concern is apparently to get as quick a start to his spring golf game as early in March as he possibly can. GO FIGURE!!!
Bottom Line: high school basketball, the major college game, and basketball in the NBA, are ENTIRELY DIFFERENT ANIMALS!!!
Another example: Jeff Jones, former head coach at Virginia in the ACC and at American U., is in 4th year as head man at ODU. Has had his team in post season the first 3 years; team has the best attendance in the conference, I believe. Jones believes post season, even CBI and CIT, is valuable both in recruiting and for team's development next season!! Oh, and we all know that, in only their 4th FBS season, ODU's football has caught up with the Herd, or, as 2016 showed, surpassed us in that sport. Remember all those on these type sites who moaned and groaned that you could JUST NOT have BOTH successful FOOTBALL and BASKETBALL at our level?
As for the Herd, well we hired a guy who coached high school decades ago, but says his goal is to win the NCAA. Yet, following early Herd exits from the conference tournament his main concern is apparently to get as quick a start to his spring golf game as early in March as he possibly can. GO FIGURE!!!
Bottom Line: high school basketball, the major college game, and basketball in the NBA, are ENTIRELY DIFFERENT ANIMALS!!!
Agree 100%. Problem is to many still think because DD was a great player equates to being a great coach. Not.
Fact is Dans team is just not very good. Yes he has some good kids. Unfortunately they have to play at the D1 level.
I predicted an optimistic 18-13. Looks more like around .500 now.
This is why I hate hiring MU HOF members and Legacies. Its almost a no win situation.
This is why I hate hiring MU HOF members and Legacies. Its almost a no win situation.
I like Dan's attitude - its realistic. He plays a tough OOC slate, doesn't care what our record is, because he knows the only way we're going dancing is if we suddenly get hot in the conference tourney.
Think back to those hot years under Jones and Herrion where we won a bunch of games, none that mattered, and then at the end of the year you got the obligatory wailing and gnashing of teeth when both major tournaments declined to invite us. This is better, its never going to be anything but a pleasant surprise.
Think back to those hot years under Jones and Herrion where we won a bunch of games, none that mattered, and then at the end of the year you got the obligatory wailing and gnashing of teeth when both major tournaments declined to invite us. This is better, its never going to be anything but a pleasant surprise.
Alternative Poll Topic: Now that most teams play as many as 35 games a year, is 20 wins still a reasonable metric of success, or the basketball equivalent of a bowl appearance?
as of right now:
24 teams with 20 or more wins
26 teams with 18 or 19 wins
14 teams with 17 wins
that's 64 +/- a few that will likely end the season at 20 or more. with 68 going to the tourney now, the 20 mark still seems like a pretty good metric.
licious Dans "attitude" is not winning games for Marshall. Remember after the loss to La Tech he said he was "ok with the loss." Attitude?
I believe that this team has the capabilities and potential to get hot and finish the season strong. In so doing, it very well may finish with 20 wins counting tournament(s)?
As an accomplishment to be heralded? No. Twenty wins is a lot like rushing for 1,000 yards in football. It's not the major accomplishment it once was, but it should be a water mark.
It means you are a good team and good teams should be able to hit the 20 win mark. You don't celebrate the accomplishment, but your sure do take a long hard look if you miss it.
Winning less than 20 games a year should be completely unacceptable. IF your goal is to be a consistent conference contender and make the Big Dance.
I don't see it. This team can only shoot jumpers. When they aren't falling or we're getting ran off the three point line (see second half of UC this year) we have nothing to turn to.
In post season play the defenses start to tighten up and the games tend to be a slower pace.
Not to mention we play no defense. If the offense is off we get our brains beat in.
This is not entirely correct. Herrion and Jones' teams both had their moments and certainly had "wins that mattered", licious. Nothing like throwing several seasons of Herd basketball athletes under the bus. Victories over teams like WVU, Houston, Memphis, UCF, Tulsa, Cincinnati AT Cincinnati didn't matter? TOTAL BS. Herrion's team led by Kane that made it to tourney finals only to lose to homestanding Memphis certainly had wins of consequence. Team got a terribul, Barkley speaking, NIT draw and had to go right back down to play MTSU there. Believe the Herd would have made some noise in the NIT if they would have gotten a home game or two.
Heck, going into the end of year 3 we are hard pressed to find very few, if any, wins on the road of any consequence that D'Antoni's teams have had!!
Let's not let our support and enthusiasm for our current Coach distort and disparage the accomplishments of Herd teams prior to his coming. They were our teams also!!!
But DD says the three point shot from the corner is the best shot in basketball and playing defense - well if you have not seen this team play live you need to and then discuss Herd defense which is difficult at best to explain.
This is going to sound insane to some, but if you could give me Donnie's recruiting with Herrion's coaching I think we would have something.
Herrion was the quickest in Marshall MBB history to win 50 games. He did that with Donnie's players for the most part. Kane, Shaq, Pitts, Pena, Spikes, and Baines. Herrion's issue wasn't his coaching (at least not 100%) it was the kids that he himself brought into the program. That is what caused his slide and ultimate dismissal.
As we stand right now Dan doesn't look proficient in either.
What has ucf done in basketball to consider that a big win? Yeah, it was a fun little rivalry there for a few years, but that wasn't a big win. The years we beat Houston, they were either a CBI tournament team (we could have been last year if we wanted to pay) or they were a <.500 basketball team. Those were big wins, why? We beat Tulsa multiple times, but they were always a CBI, NIT, or worse kind of team...and we didn't beat them on the road. Those wvu wins were nice, but going one and done in the CUSA tounament sure did suck. And why is MTSU a tough draw in the NIT, but it's not a big win when we beat them in CUSA? That Cincinnati win Herrion got, IMO, felt like a program changing win...and we almost went to Syracuse shortly after and beat them. That was a really nice team. But, people seem to forget, between the Cincinnati win and the great showing @Syracuse, we lost to Ohio at home. We also went through a stretch where we lost 5 of 6 in conference...then lost to a terrible ECU team on the road. We entered the CUSA tournament that year with a 9-7 CUSA record (barely .500), as a 6th seed, and got hot at the right time. Yet, somehow, it's a bad thing when people say that it's going to take the same thing for our basketball team to accomplish similar feats. In Dantoni's second season, the start of a rebuild project, we were 1 win away from accomplishing what that senior dominated team did at it's peak. Yet, that was considered success and what this team is doing is abject failure...
MTSU was a tough draw because four straight games in Memphis then as soon as we got home from the tournament we had to fly right back out to Murfressboro. It wasn't that MTSU was such a good team. It was the travel and having no time to rest and decompress.
I’m saying that from the vantage point of college basketball as a whole, it wasn’t terribly noteworthy. For Marshall? Oh, it was huge. The year we beat WVU, UCF and Memphis in the same season, we had posters printed and handed out to commemorate those three regular season wins, like they constituted some kind of mini-championship, even though we lost the away games at UCF and Memphis.
To the casual college basketball fan, the high point of Marshall basketball from the last 30 years is either a CIT win over Western Carolina or an NIT loss to MTSU.
Well, that's what happens when you're a lower seed. Not a tough draw, our resume just wasn't good enough to get home court advantage...which is huge. We could have been sent halfway across the country.
We were the highest RPI team in the country not to get an NCAA Tournament bid. There were more than a couple with much lower RPIs get in. Therefore we were one of if nit the highest RPI in the NIT.
The only thing honestly wrong with our resume is being in CUSA and their refusal to give us two bids.
Also to your point about having to go across the country. Still doesn't disprove my point or the poster I was echoing.
We played 4 straight games then had a no time to rest before going back out.
MTSU as a team was not a bad draw the location and turnaround was.
Poke holes in the wins the previous two coaches all you want. I'm not saying I would take them back, but the fact is Dan doesn't have one big win in 3 seasons. That has nothing to do with Donnie or Herrion.
Dan is in his third season. He has a 2nd year PG and at any given time he has 3 seniors in his starting 5 that have been in the system for three years.
There is no excuse to be at best fractionally better than his previous two seasons.
His coaching philosophy is why we are not that good.
People want to bring up teams that use his system in the NBA as justification. Usually pointing to the Warriors or Spurs. Both teams have post presences. Draymond Green, Tim Duncan, or LaMarcus Aldridge. We can debate how much they actually play on the block, but it cannot be disputed they provide a defensive presence at the rim and rebound.
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[QUOTE="MARSHALL77, post:. Oh yee of little faith ( including me ) I think with 7 to go 3 wins 4 losses.
Setting up as noted - looking for 3 losses in the last 5 games maybe only 2 but I would not bet the farm on it .That happens and its a sub .500 season , program is going nowhere very quickly and is not one to suddenly go on a 5 game win streak at this juncture.
Considering the banked $$ from the NBA ( or so I would imagine) might see someone pull a BP and just quit.
Setting up as noted - looking for 3 losses in the last 5 games maybe only 2 but I would not bet the farm on it .That happens and its a sub .500 season , program is going nowhere very quickly and is not one to suddenly go on a 5 game win streak at this juncture.
Considering the banked $$ from the NBA ( or so I would imagine) might see someone pull a BP and just quit.
If we can somehow beat ODU and Rice then yes. will win 1 of the other 2. 1 game in tourney and 1 game in a pay for play tourney(should they accept the bid and get a home game). If we don't beat ODU and Rice then probably not.
A little arrogant, maybe, bbneutralfan, given our illustrious basketball history, including "extensive" post season success over the decades, don't you think?
Then, again, maybe not, considering that such a "pay to play" tourney would seriously interfere with Coach D's primary objective this spring: To get out on the golf course as early in March as possible!!
Then, again, maybe not, considering that such a "pay to play" tourney would seriously interfere with Coach D's primary objective this spring: To get out on the golf course as early in March as possible!!
If we get a home game, it would be perceived by most fans as an improvement - since it is post season. It gives the kids an other game(experience) and a chance to make something out of another average ho hum season. I would think we would make a little money on a home game as well. The local media would surely play it up and have a decent crowd. jmo
The backward march of college basketball started a few years back when college coaches ask the ncaa refs to ALLOW FREEDOM OF MOVEMENT. Now teams play no defense. I watched a high school game here in ky having the score 106-103. Trickle down defense. The nba all star has always been a joke but now is embarrassing. Layups and dunks. Could have been worse they could have pulled up and shot 3's. Year 4 is gonna suck. From the pros to grade school basketball teams, the game haa regressed
We have made money on all pay to play games
Just the thought of another march with no madness in herdville sucks. Year 4 we go or get a coach who can last and not another no defensive minded coach.
Herdmeister posted "We have made money on all play to pay games." Show us the money! A team least show us the data that led you to post that. I may be under the mistaken idea that Hamrick is opposed to pay for play games. I said I could be mistaken.
That's a ridiculous statement. Of course we could/would if we wanted in. Between the NIT, CBI, CollegeInsider.com and Vegas 16, as many as 96 teams play in the postseason that don't make the NCAA tourney.
Also, watch the smack talk. You're bordering on a vacation with the tone of most of your posts.
If true re: pay to play games, then just another example of Hamrick's half hearted, almost cavalier attitude towards MU basketball. Personally, I believes he operates with almost tunnel vision concentrated on football, being an ex Herd football jock. His tenure has produced little in the way of real progress in HERD basketball, the athletic department's only other REVENUE SPORT!! Starting with his hire of Tom Herrion, even though there was ample evidence, including posts on this and other boards describing how Herrion ran the College of Charleston's program into the ground and disarray after taking over from Bobby Cremins, I believe.
So what happened at MU? Herrion had success for a couple years primarily using players recruited and left by Donnie Jones. Then Hamrick essentially played "chicken" with the LA Lakers, hoping that they would can Head Coach Mike D'Antoni sooner rather than later. When they didn't and with MU heading into late spring without a head coach, Hamrick was left with no real choice other than to hire Danny D'Antoni.
Now we face the possibility of going into year 4 of Coach's tenure with the distinct possibility of him having a less than .500 overall record. Moreover, he will do so sans a lot of firepower: loss of one of school's all time all around leaders, Taylor; loss of career 3 point scorer, Loop; and another 2 year scoring leader, Browning. Oh, but we have a very undersized high school guard coming in, along with a 2 ppg. transfer guard from Wake Forest, along with some major "bigs" who probably won't be eligible for various and sundry academic reasons. Not to fear: Pre season practice reports next October will describe all the great "teaching" that is going on, and how Milan, Nikolic, Penava, Thieneman, Kilgore, et. al., are sure fire, can't miss all CUSA players, heck, maybe even all NBA caliber!! Same O, Same O in MU basketball!!
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