You gotta think Chase made....
- Thread starter W-S HerdFan
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Truly didn't know practice squad players were allowed on the bench during the games. Learn something every day.
He will make more than $129K considering KC's playoff run. There is also a decent chance he is making more than the $7600 weekly minimum.
Alex McGough, FIU's QB last year, was released by the Seahawks and then signed to their practice squad. His agent was able to negotiate his pay at over $28,000/week, which will put him slightly over the league' minimum for active players.
Alex McGough, FIU's QB last year, was released by the Seahawks and then signed to their practice squad. His agent was able to negotiate his pay at over $28,000/week, which will put him slightly over the league' minimum for active players.
Can you list the QBs that started their career on the practice squad who eventually became starters in the NFL? How many QBs started their career on the practice squad and didn't become starters?
If he would have stayed at Marshall another year and not regressed, the worst outcome would have been him going undrafted and getting on a practice squad. On the flip side, he would have been coming out with a much weaker QB class this year, which would have elevated his draft stock by default.
Did he really make the right decision? I don't really care because it's already done, but it's not like sitting on a bench at a football game makes it beyond debate.
If he would have stayed at Marshall another year and not regressed, the worst outcome would have been him going undrafted and getting on a practice squad. On the flip side, he would have been coming out with a much weaker QB class this year, which would have elevated his draft stock by default.
Did he really make the right decision? I don't really care because it's already done, but it's not like sitting on a bench at a football game makes it beyond debate.
Can you list the DL or OL who started their careers on the practice squad who eventually became starters in the NFL? How many DL or OL started their career on the practice squad and didn't become starters?
What would another year at Marshall having to learn a new system done for him? Even if he got drafted in the sixth or seventh round, it doesn't mean he is on the active roster (see: all of the QBs who are drafted in late rounds over the last decade that are sent to the practice squad or released outright). Even if this year's QB class isn't as deep, simply getting drafted doesn't do shit for him other than a signing bonus which probably would have been less than what he will make this year.
So he stays for his last year, gets drafted late, and gets put on the practice squad. His contract isn't guaranteed. What is the difference other than him getting paid a year earlier and learning/growing on an NFL roster instead of another year at Marshall?
If he had stayed at MU and progressed to being the 10th QB taken in about the 6th round next year, based on last year's draft he would make a signing bonus of about $140,000 and a salary of about $500,000... $640k total. Instead he went against the advice of the NFL (stay in school), undrafted with no singing bonus and salary of $129k. That's more than 4x more money for a moderate goal, and would have given him the chance to actually accomplish something at Marshall. Worst case he goes undrafted in 2019 and makes the same money as now. (Best case, he finally commits fully & does even better). Sounds like the wrong decision to me, unless you're only thinking about short term gain.
The difference between this year's QB draft class and last year's class is huge. Everyone knew last year's class was loaded, it wasn't like he wouldn't have known it.
As to your reply
OL and DL - straw man argument, talking about positions that have 6-8 roster spots and where a year or two of strength development is important. A diversion to take away from the fact that QBs don't make the jump from PS to starting in the NFL because next year's new flavor, free agent, or the player that is already the back up is a better option.
As to your reply
OL and DL - straw man argument, talking about positions that have 6-8 roster spots and where a year or two of strength development is important. A diversion to take away from the fact that QBs don't make the jump from PS to starting in the NFL because next year's new flavor, free agent, or the player that is already the back up is a better option.
You have a flawed understanding of how NFL contracts work.
If Litton had been drafted in the 6th round last year . . . or the 6th round next year . . . or any year under the current NFL agreement, he only gets his base salary (which you estimated at about $500,000) IF he makes the active roster. He doesn't get the base salary in the contract that he would sign after getting drafted for being on the practice squad.
Let's go back to FIU's QB, Alex McGough. Alex was drafted in the 7th round. He signed a 4 year, $2.56 million deal. He also received a $103K signing bonus. However, he doesn't see a single cent of that $2.56 million contract unless he makes the active roster, which he didn't.
In fact, he was cut originally even after having a very impressive camp. He still got to keep his $103K signing bonus. He then was free to sign with another team, get claimed off of waivers, etc. Shortly after waiving him, Seattle tried signing him to their practice squad. However, his agent knew that Seattle wanted him a lot due to him having had a really good camp. His agent was able to negotiate for Seattle to pay him his first year salary of that $2.56 contract (his first year salary is about $452K) even though he was on the practice squad. Seattle was not obligated to pay that since he was signing to the practice squad. All they were obligated to pay was his signing bonus and his $7600/week. However, knowing that if they didn't agree to McGough's demands, they could easily lose him to another team's practice squad (which would allow McGough to find an easier path to an active roster by finding a team with a weaker QB depth chart), Seattle agreed to pay him the first year of that non-guaranteed contract.
This is, by far, the exception and not the norm.
And that is why many players would rather not get drafted as opposed to being drafted in the 6th or 7th rounds. By not getting drafted, they are able to pick which team gives them the best path to land on a practice squad to get them some money and a foot in the door. Getting drafted in a late round doesn't guarantee them any money unless they get on the active roster (not a great chance) and they don't get to select a team with the easiest path to a spot on the practice squad.
So, no, Litton wouldn't have made that $500,000 had he stayed and gotten drafted in the 6th round. He still would have had to make the active roster. So unless you think he would have greatly improved while having to learn a whole new system as a senior, your argument is wrong. And thinking he would have been the 10th QB taken next year is almost just as wrong.
He would have received a signing bonus from getting drafted and nothing more assuming he only landed on the practice squad again.
Had he stayed at Marshall and had a best scenario happen:
2018: Marshall
2019: Drafted 6th round (signing bonus around $140,000), practice squad (around $129,000)
Total: $269,000
How it worked out:
2018: Practice squad (around $129,000)
2019: Practice squad (around $129,000)
Total: $258,000
As you can see, even under the best case of him getting drafted next year (which I don't think would have happened), he wouldn't have really made any more money. By going this year, he is able to play and benefit from having a year of experience in the NFL.
Man, can't believe staying at MU and learning a "new system" would be much of a deficit. Especially when the offense we ran this season didn't seem to vary much from what Legg ran in previous years. What's the ONE big gripe you have heard from MU fans this season? That there hasn't really been that much change and variation in our O schemes. Chase with a CLEAR HEAD shouldn't have had much problem in getting Cramsey's O down, IMO.
And that still doesn't matter. Why do you people think that getting drafted benefits him at all? Even if he stayed, he wasn't going to significantly make himself a much better NFL prospect. At the very best, which is still unlikely, he would have been a 6th or 7th round pick. In that case, the only way he would have made more money by waiting is if he actually made an active roster! That wasn't going to happen simply by staying an extra year. This year's QB class being weaker wasn't going to allow him to make a roster. That's the only way he would have made more money.
What is it with you people and not knowing what a straw man argument is? A straw man argument is making an argument that seems to refute an opponent's position/argument, however, that position/argument was never argued by the opponent.
Stop fvcking saying that if you truly don't understand that logical fallacy.
My comment about OL/DL was not a straw man. In no way did I claim that was an argument you made. It was a point to show that regardless of position, it's rare for a player to become a starter after starting their career on the practice squad.
And that still doesn't help him make an active roster! Christ. This isn't rocket science. Litton could have handled the new offense with ease, put up better numbers than his junior year, and even been drafted in the 6th or 7th round. Yet none of those things help him make an active roster! In fact, getting drafted in those rounds would have HURT him as opposed to being able to pick which team he signed with since he wouldn't have been able to look for the team which gave him the easiest path.
Even had he stayed for his senior year, he still goes to an NFL team with good size, average feet, an average arm by NFL standards, and average accuracy. He wasn't going to grow 3", he wasn't going to improve his forty by three-tenths of a second, his arm wasn't going to suddenly get significantly stronger.
The NFL doesn't give a shit if he threw for 500 more yards. The NFL doesn't give a shit if he won the conference. He still would be, by all reasonable measures, the same QB.
So who is to say that another year at MU would have resulted in him not getting drafted or drafted only in the 6th or 7th rounds? Any statement on Litton's performance as MU's QB in 2018 and his ultimate draft status following said season is pure speculation, at best. What if he flourished under the "new" system and coordinator at MU? What if some NFL team saw something positive in his game than wasn't seen going into the 2018 draft? As YAGs noted in an above post, "its rare for a player to become a starter after starting their career on the practice squad."
So that's where Chase is right now. Staying at MU may/may not have given him a better chance of being drafted. We'll never know. Same is true about whether he would have been better off financially in terms of pro football salary. He has his 2018 practice squad salary, but I don't think he has any "guarantee" for the same salary, $129,000, in 2019, or for that matter, is guaranteed a spot on the Chiefs practice squad in 2019.
So that's where Chase is right now. Staying at MU may/may not have given him a better chance of being drafted. We'll never know. Same is true about whether he would have been better off financially in terms of pro football salary. He has his 2018 practice squad salary, but I don't think he has any "guarantee" for the same salary, $129,000, in 2019, or for that matter, is guaranteed a spot on the Chiefs practice squad in 2019.
Nearly all the draft people say you are better off being a UDFA than going in the 6th or 7th Rounds.
His NFL stated salary is $129,200 which is also his KC cap space alotment.
https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/kansas-city-chiefs/cap/
Chase had his issues at MU. I am not sure what or how staying at MU another year would have benefited him at all. He still would have been a late rounder or free agent. He ended up at a pretty good team to try to make a roster or stay on the practice squad. He was not going to get any further development at Marshall and running whatever offense we run under whatever coordinator.
The NFL goes through QB’s like water through a screen. No guarantee that he will be on any practice squad next year.
worst case is he made 129k to play some football and get the experience. Also, will have his name around in the league.
No guarantee of that if he would have stayed at MU either.
Nope. Just saying is he gonna be a practice squad guy for a few years? I doubt he'll make a roster. But then again, it is the NFL, things are never constant. He better have a plan B.
The NFL is all about measurables. That's why QBs who throw for 4000+ yards in certain systems barely get a sniff at the NFL while other QBs who throw for 2000 yards get drafted early.
As I said, Chase wasn't growing 3". He wasn't dropping his forth three-tenths of a second. He wasn't somehow going to see a huge increase in his arm strength. His measurables were pretty set already. Even if he had a huge year as Marshall's QB, it wasn't going to greatly improve his draft stock. Again, at best, he would go in the late rounds . . . and even that is unlikely due to his measurables simply not being able to have much ceiling space left.
Is that speculation? Sure. It's also speculation to say that Marshall basketball isn't winning the national championship this year and Marshall football isn't winning the national championship next year. You can speculate by utilizing common sense and knowledge of the particular topic.
You are using neither.
As has already been shown, even if he was drafted (which would have been in the late rounds at best), he would be no better off financially having played at Marshall this year. His physical potential wasn't going to greatly improve by staying one more year at Marshall. However, by getting in the NFL, he would be around better strength coaches, better nutrition, better position coaches, and learn the NFL system. Even if he has little physical improvement this year in the NFL, having that experience and learning the system gives him a far better opportunity to make a roster (while still earning money this year) next season than anything he could have reasonably done at Marshall this year.
The NFL evaluations will always error on the side of caution in terms of recommending kids to go back to school if they aren't assured of being a high draft pick. That evaluation has nothing to do with if they will be able to improve in college, but rather, that it allows them the ability to get a degree and possibly be in the same spot next year in the NFL.
Oh, I can and will if you'd like. However, it's a waste of time, as I already explained that what he's trying to prove with his question is flawed.
Becoming and NFL starter after starting on the practice squad isn't a likely scenario regardless of what position the athlete plays. However, getting a year in the system on the practice squad gives you a far better chance than playing yet another year in college for an athlete whose physical growth is already tapped out.
Your source is wrong.
Danny Etling was drafted in the 7th round last year. He is currently on the Patriots' practice squad. As a result, his salary is about $129K as this source shows:
https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/E/EtliDa00.htm
Alex McGough was also drafted in the 7th round last year. He is also on a practice squad. However, the same source shows his salary as $476K, which is his first full year's salary based on his contract (had he made the active roster) which is what I said Seattle was paying him this year:
https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/M/McGoAl00.htm
Oh, and then there is this - NFL Pro Football Weekly reporter tweeting that Seattle is paying him his full first year salary even while on the practice squad:
And there is this - reporter for the NFL Network tweeting that McGough is being paid $28,200/week to be on the practice squad (which amounts to his full first year's salary assuming he stays all season):
How would staying at Marshall for his senior year helped him with a Plan B? As has been shown, it wasn't going to help him make an active roster more than spending that year on an NFL practice squad. It wasn't going to make any money for him.
Per NFL rules, you can only spend three years on a practice squad. Having stayed at Marshall wasn't going to help him make an active roster more than spending that year on an NFL practice squad would have. He still would have only had a max of three years on a practice squad.
That really is it. I have zero idea what his academic history is. We had a long thread at the time and those of us who said he would never play an official down in an official game were right. Fact is the NFL is not going to keep somebody who does not measure up around year after year when it can try out another set of close but not quite types from the next class, and then the next, and the next.
So the guy makes good $$ for a 20 something for a year or two or maybe 3. That is not life changing $$. This is a person who will need a real job in the real world in the near term.
So, how does MU help that? He can take a chance at the league for a few years. If he doesn't make it , he can go finish up a degree somewhere. Heck, he could come back to MU and keep all his hours.
Chase Daniel (and others) and his $14 million+ laugh at you. Chase is in his tenth season in the NFL. Before this season, he had attempted 78 passes in his career. In other words, the NFL has kept him around for a decade so that he could attempt 8 passes on average per year.
"Close but not quite" sure has worked out well for him.
So if he sticks around for three years on a practice squad, he will have made $400K+. That's good money over a three year stretch for any age, especially with a Marshall degree, let alone just somebody in his early 20s.
Listen, we get it. Your mix of jealousy and desire only for Marshall to have a chance to succeed clouds your already jaded mind and forces you to make foolish arguments repeatedly. But at some point, you have to face reality.
Says the guy who claims that his foolish posts are him just wanting to blow air into the balloon.
Etling is not Chase....
https://overthecap.com/player/chase-litton/7305
Here's another one.....are they wrong also? The practice squad has some guys paid higher salaries based upon the teams desire to keep them from leaving. That isnt the case here.
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Ohhh- you're talking about Chase. Since the last thing you quoted of mine was talking about McGough making more than the standard practice squad salary, I assumed you were referring to him (which is why my entire last post to you was about McGough's salary).
So your point is that Chase is making the standard $129,200? Yeah, that's also quite possible. As I said, that will be even higher considering the playoffs. It also doesn't include the money he made during pre-season.
And for the record, your sources are still wrong. We've already shown that spotrac.com is wrong regarding McGough. Your new sources seem to use the same exact format as the spotrac site, so it appears one of them is using the other as a source. Therefore, if one is wrong, the other is also wrong.
All of your sources claim that McGough is making $129K. I've shown that to be wrong (both from multiple NFL reporters and another legitimate website). All of your sources are wrong on McGough's numbers, so that severely limits their credibility on other player salaries.
I'm not arguing that Litton is on a special deal, but your sources already have shown to be wrong, so continuing to use them isn't ideal.
Yeah, I was talking about Chase. Sorry.....As for your opinions and the fact I have found 3 sources on Chase's cap hit and they all are the same, keep believing you are an expert.
Where have I ever argued that Chase's salary is higher than the normal practice squad pay? I said that the playoff run will give him more money, that he is possibly getting paid more than the regular practice pay, and that he made even more during pre-season (which isn't included in the $129K).
As for your "3 sources" . . . I've shown that your sources are extremely wrong about another rookie's pay who is on the practice squad. In other words, the legitimacy of your sources isn't very good at this point.
What do you feel I am being an expert on?
I wasn't implying staying at Marshall would've have been better for him. I was saying he's not gonna be in the NFL long, IF after this year. He needs to have a plan in place for a career/job. Not sure where you could interpret anything in my post that indicated I thought he should have stayed.
......They say a picture is worth a 1000 words. Ye Gods, we must’ve already passed 5k. Lest anyone think I was setting the table for yet another YAGS symposium on all things YAGGY, I assure you all that was NOT the case! My only cerebral synapse stimulation was this: Pretty cool to be on the bench for the Chiefs as they write this storybook season of success! Nothing about what he’s making or will make. Also showing off the sharpness of that new tv tech! Merry Christmas everyone, including YAGS......
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anon_0314hp8ssprnn
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You got that right. Beats the shit any of us are doing.
Apparently, he has nothing else going on. This is his full-time job. Just jibber jabber all day and not saying anything meaningful.
