A Tale of Two Sams

[ARandomHerdFan]

Act I: Changing the Tune on Bowl Games

We open in the year 2020, March of that year to be exact… Doc Holliday is the coach at Marshall, and has just completed an 8-5 season.

In one of his typical idiotic basketball ramblings, he brings up the “very successful“ football team. When asked why it was very successful, he replies with this:

Very successful.

Winning. Going to bowl games. Being among the 130-or so I-A programs despite our size and limitations. Playing schools no one would have dared dream of just a generation ago.

Marshall football. Very successful.

A winning record is all it takes? Going to bowl games makes you successful? I see, Samuel, I see…

{INTERMISSION}

Now we come to the year 2021… Doc Holliday is no more. Marshall football has finished its first regular season with a new coach, Charles Huff. The team has a winning record and will be attending one of the coveted bowl games that Sam has used as a sign of success.

How does our hero react to the news?

Bowls - Does it really matter at this point? 99.9% chance it is an also ran from either the AAC, SBC or MAC, probably with a similar record. It would be nice if it were in a nice place to visit for the players and in a part of the country within our alumni footprint, but we will do as we are told. We didn’t earn better.

Oh my! Now bowl games don’t matter! They were only a measure of success when Holliday coached the team.

What could have changed? Is Samuel related to Doc? Is he just a massive hypocrite? Is it the most sinister of reasons, which I can’t even bear to mention?

Stay tuned, readers.

 

[caliherd]

What’s funny Random you didn’t even put his other most hypocritical posts. Where under Doc he talked about how tough CUSA was and that it was a football conference, everybody tries etc etc etc and now under Huff it’s a garbage conference and Coach Huff playing for the division championship the last game of the season is severely under performing.

 

[whf2]

Sure would like to have my to minutes back.......

 

[ARandomHerdFan]

Sure would like to have my to minutes back.......

To? Why not free?

 

[GoHerdMarshallYes]

"Link?"

-Goddamn Sam

 

[19MU88]

Sam may need to start over with new screen name after this. Ouch

 

[W-S HerdFan]

…..for those less edumacated, the irony of Random’s thread title is not lost on me:
It was the best of times, it was the worst of times, it was the age of wisdom, it was the age of foolishness, it was the epoch of belief, it was the epoch of incredulity, it was the season of Light, it was the season of Darkness, it ...

 

[W-S HerdFan]

…..and Sam, for the love of Pruett, please take your own advice and sit this one out:

“So keep it to yourself. Its childish, and childish comments don’t further adult discussion.”

better to die a single death than to endure a thousand cuts, or something to that effect.

 

[TwolfHerdfan]

I've asked repeatedly why his change in thought - going from - we as fans expect too much, when Doc was here. Now, we as fans accept mediocrity. A complete 180. Crickets.

 

[raleighherdfan]

Act I: Changing the Tune on Bowl Games

We open in the year 2020, March of that year to be exact… Doc Holliday is the coach at Marshall, and has just completed an 8-5 season.

In one of his typical idiotic basketball ramblings, he brings up the “very successful“ football team. When asked why it was very successful, he replies with this:



A winning record is all it takes? Going to bowl games makes you successful? I see, Samuel, I see…

{INTERMISSION}

Now we come to the year 2021… Doc Holliday is no more. Marshall football has finished its first regular season with a new coach, Charles Huff. The team has a winning record and will be attending one of the coveted bowl games that Sam has used as a sign of success.

How does our hero react to the news?



Oh my! Now bowl games don’t matter! They were only a measure of success when Holliday coached the team.

What could have changed? Is Samuel related to Doc? Is he just a massive hypocrite? Is it the most sinister of reasons, which I can’t even bear to mention?

Stay tuned, readers.

 

[The Real SamC]

What could have changed?

First I resent the implication. Stop it.

On to the question. NOTHING has changed. You are just taking two posts on different subjects which do not contradict one another and trying to make an argument. You have failed.

Is MU football “successful”? Yes. Everything I said about the PROGRAM then was true, and remains true. Note the use of the plural “bowl games”. Plural. A discussion about a PROGRAM, not a season.

Was 2019 “successful”? Moderately. Beat five teams with winning regular season records. Beat the eventual conference champion at home. But fell short of the goals, so moderately successful.

Now on to the second post. It is on a different subject. What bowl will this team, a singular team, go to? I posted my opinion. I stand by it, it doesn’t contradict anything I said 18 months ago, mainly because its on a DIFFERENT SUBJECT.

Now is the MU PROGRAM still “successful”? Yes. We had a grossly underperforming year, missing all our goals and not meeting expectations of the media, pre-season guides, or gambling over-unders and points spreads. Gross underperformance. That does not change one iota my opinion from 18 months ago. We are still a successful program. Not one thing has changed about the PROGRAM. But this SUCCESSFUL PROGRAM had a bad year. As were several SEASONS under previous coaches as well.

Reading comprehension not your strong suit?

 

[Jartard]

First I resent the implication. Stop it.

On to the question. NOTHING has changed. You are just taking two posts on different subjects which do not contradict one another and trying to make an argument. You have failed.

Is MU football “successful”? Yes. Everything I said about the PROGRAM then was true, and remains true. Note the use of the plural “bowl games”. Plural. A discussion about a PROGRAM, not a season.

Was 2019 “successful”? Moderately. Beat five teams with winning regular season records. Beat the eventual conference champion at home. But fell short of the goals, so moderately successful.

Now on to the second post. It is on a different subject. What bowl will this team, a singular team, go to? I posted my opinion. I stand by it, it doesn’t contradict anything I said 18 months ago, mainly because its on a DIFFERENT SUBJECT.

Now is the MU PROGRAM still “successful”? Yes. We had a grossly underperforming year, missing all our goals and not meeting expectations of the media, pre-season guides, or gambling over-unders and points spreads. Gross underperformance. That does not change one iota my opinion from 18 months ago. We are still a successful program. Not one thing has changed about the PROGRAM. But this SUCCESSFUL PROGRAM had a bad year. As were several SEASONS under previous coaches as well.

Reading comprehension not your strong suit?

How does this bad year in this successful program compare to let’s say the past 10 years of this successful program?

 

[ARandomHerdFan]

First I resent the implication. Stop it.

On to the question. NOTHING has changed. You are just taking two posts on different subjects which do not contradict one another and trying to make an argument. You have failed.

Is MU football “successful”? Yes. Everything I said about the PROGRAM then was true, and remains true. Note the use of the plural “bowl games”. Plural. A discussion about a PROGRAM, not a season.

Was 2019 “successful”? Moderately. Beat five teams with winning regular season records. Beat the eventual conference champion at home. But fell short of the goals, so moderately successful.

Now on to the second post. It is on a different subject. What bowl will this team, a singular team, go to? I posted my opinion. I stand by it, it doesn’t contradict anything I said 18 months ago, mainly because its on a DIFFERENT SUBJECT.

Now is the MU PROGRAM still “successful”? Yes. We had a grossly underperforming year, missing all our goals and not meeting expectations of the media, pre-season guides, or gambling over-unders and points spreads. Gross underperformance. That does not change one iota my opinion from 18 months ago. We are still a successful program. Not one thing has changed about the PROGRAM. But this SUCCESSFUL PROGRAM had a bad year. As were several SEASONS under previous coaches as well.

Reading comprehension not your strong suit?

Exquisite deflection. In typical fashion, you've provided nothing of actual substance... in fact, you've actually tripped up again. I was saving this for Act II, but I'll go ahead and address it here.

You say that this year's team was grossly underperforming due to not meeting the expectation of the media, who picked us to win the division.

Prior to that, you say that 2019 was moderately successful. However, in 2019 we were also picked by the media to win the division.

Why was it grossly underperforming for this year's team to not meet media expectations, but the 2019 team gets a pass?

Spoiler

Also, I'd just like to note that "beating the eventual conference champion at home" is nothing more than a participation trophy.

 

[ru4_mu2]

Sammy LOL

 

[herdfella]

Sam's next reply...."All of this is HISTORY. We are on a message board, it isn't fair to talk about history, especially when it makes me look like an absolute idiot!"

 

[The Real SamC]

How does this bad year in this successful program compare to let’s say the past 10 years of this successful program?

See, a respectful question. No name calling, no childishness. I’m not big on history threads, at least recent history, love to talk about long gone day with the few that are left that remember, but I will make and exception.

21. We have covered. We underperformed and are way not as good as our record indicated.
20. I happen to believe the “they all got in this racial fight and quit” story. I can’t prove it, but I have heard it from people I respect. On field, tale of two halves.
19. Covered above. This was about a case of “you are what your record says you are”.
18. I think a very successful year, only one bad loss.
17. This team really reminds me of this year’s team. Really lost to everyone it played with a pulse.
16. Abject dumpster fire. Unexplainable.
15. 10 wins is a good year.
14. Goes without saying.
13. A very good year.
12. Didn’t really underperform, just wasn’t really very good.

That’s 10 years.

The perceived difference is that I have called BS on the rotten superfan cadre here. Year after year of post after post that denigrated our WINS and our conference. I said, and I continue to say, that if Marshall WINS and you don’t take pleasure in that, this isn’t for you, move on. Stand by that. This coach, and the last coach. Any coach. Saying “well its just another CDOA team” means this isn’t for you. Expecting MU to be better than other teams, automatically and without any adult reason, is just childish. This coach, any coach. Marshall is not just supposed to win because it is supposed to.

Now we have gotten from people, the same people, who couldn’t be happy with WINS, who now are not bothered about LOSSES.

We have gone from discussion of the games to a group of children who can only respond about “Doc…” when we are discussing THIS TEAM. Not to get political, but saying “but the previous guy…” is not helpful when discussing whether the CURRENT GUY is doing right or wrong.

Every loss every year every coach, back to Sonny, bothered me. EVERY win impressed me. EVERY one. Including this year.

 

[herdfella]

Year after year of post after post that denigrated our WINS and our conference. I said, and I continue to say, that if Marshall WINS and you don’t take pleasure in that, this isn’t for you, move on.

Says the guy that had denigrated all of our wins this year.....

 

[herdinmichigan]

Another fan sad and upset Doc and his staff was let go. Same for the people that bring up our OC every game good/bad. When Huff was hired I remember alot of posters and threads talking about no ( good hires) left to get. Did Marshall wait to long in makeing the fire/hire or indeed there was a lack of good to great Oc's out there to choose from. I'm fine with this staff as is right now maybe after year 2 then maybe a few moves could and should be made but as of today Huff in his first year WITHOUT any of his players took Doc's 1 QB team as far as he could. Next year with 35 of Huff's picked players I feel this team will be way better in every skill position. Let's give Huff his 3 to 4 years first ( same as Doc) before you run maybe the best coach Marshall has had after BP left.

 

[raleighherdfan]

We have gone from discussion of the games to a group of children who can only respond about “Doc…” when we are discussing THIS TEAM.

Ehhh No. The discussion about THIS TEAM is ongoing. You just dont want to hear about the comparisons of THIS TEAM to those teams in the recent past when a coaching change occurs.

We get it. You dont want anyone dumping on your guy, but denying the comparisons between THIS TEAM-THIS COACH and the LAST TEAM-LAST coach is completely disingenuous as your post admits. Just as Doc was compared to Mark Snyder and Mark Snyder was compared to Pruett, comparisons happen justifiably early in the tenure.

 

[The Real SamC]

Ehhh No. The discussion about THIS TEAM is ongoing. You just dont want to hear about the comparisons of THIS TEAM to those teams in the recent past when a coaching change occurs.

We get it. You dont want anyone dumping on your guy, but denying the comparisons between THIS TEAM-THIS COACH and the LAST TEAM-LAST coach is completely disingenuous as your post admits. Just as Doc was compared to Mark Snyder and Mark Snyder was compared to Pruett, comparisons happen justifiably early in the tenure.

Except, of course, that is not what you, chiefly you, are doing.

Some one posts “I think we should be doing X Y and Z”.

Some one replies “No, I think we should stay the course with A B and C”

Some one else replies “I think the system Pitt used against Notre Dame looked interesting”.

You reply “Well Doc this and Doc that and Doc another thing….”

It doesn’t further the conversation. It is childish. You are childish.

Doc could have been the worst coach in human history. Pointing that out does not in any way further a discussion of how a particular game plan was executed this year.” Just as a guy’s father could be the biggest POS in the world, that does not relieve the step-father of one second of his responsibility for his action; or the previous president (of some unnamed not America place, no politics here) could have dipped regime opponents in a vat of acid; it doesn’t add a thing to a discussion of whether the current president should raise or lower tariffs on canned turnips.

Its irrelevant. It doesn’t further a discussion.

We get it. You didn’t like Doc. OK, OTHER THAN THAT, do you have ANYTHING to say about last week’s game?

 

[MStap]

“Those who fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it.”

-Sir Winston Churchill

 

[raleighherdfan]

Except, of course, that is not what you, chiefly you, are doing.

That's EXACTLY what I am doing. Your feelings just get hurt when the subject comes up.

Some one else replies “I think the system Pitt used against Notre Dame looked interesting”

Not sure what PITT and N.D. have to do with THIS TEAM. That's stupid.

Some one posts “I think we should be doing X Y and Z”.

Some one replies “No, I think we should stay the course with A B and C”

Again, how exactly does one speak about this team in a vacuum when this team was essentially built by the last guy? Just like I said, comparisons of Doc to Snyder, Snyder to Pruett...and now Huff to Doc. Its absolutely fair to do so when the context of the discussion involves comparing performance of last year and this year.

Just as a guy’s father could be the biggest POS in the world, that does not relieve the step-father of one second of his responsibility for his action; or the previous president (of some unnamed not America place, no politics here) could have dipped regime opponents in a vat of acid;

Its irrelevant

At least you got that right.

do you have ANYTHING to say about last week’s game?

Sure. For instance. Visit the WKU game thread. My posts #71 and 88 refer directly to the game and Wells specifically. Better yet, refer to your own post in that thread (#83 and #91) where you introduce the comparisons of prior teams to this team as an attempt to put down the current coach. You're a hypocrite and a loser Sam.

 

[raleighherdfan]

“Those who fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it.”

-Sir Winston Churchill

Just empty "ho ha"---Sammy

 

[The Real SamC]

That's EXACTLY what I am doing. Your feelings just get hurt when the subject comes up.


Not sure what PITT and N.D. have to do with THIS TEAM. That's stupid.


Again, how exactly does one speak about this team in a vacuum when this team was essentially built by the last guy? Just like I said, comparisons of Doc to Snyder, Snyder to Pruett...and now Huff to Doc. Its absolutely fair to do so when the context of the discussion involves comparing performance of last year and this year.



At least you got that right.

Sure. For instance. Visit the WKU game thread. My posts #71 and 88 refer directly to the game and Wells specifically. Better yet, refer to your own post in that thread (#83 and #91) where you introduce the comparisons of prior teams to this team as an attempt to put down the current coach. You're a hypocrite and a loser Sam.

So, in sum, no you have NOTHING to say about this team or coach. Anytime anyone says anything about any subject, you will respond with “Doc, Doc, Doc…”. Apparently to either the 24 or 25 seasons, you never really clarified.

You have nothing to contribute. You do not wish to contribute to discussions about this team.

Got it.

 

[mlblack16.]

A poem by Sam:

Roses are red
Violets are blue
I'm a schizophrenic...
And so am I

 

[raleighherdfan]

So, in sum, no you have NOTHING to say about this team or coach. Anytime anyone says anything about any subject, you will respond with “Doc, Doc, Doc…”. Apparently to either the 24 or 25 seasons, you never really clarified.

You have nothing to contribute. You do not wish to contribute to discussions about this team.

Got it.

Reading comprehension.

Visit the WKU game thread. My posts #71 and 88 refer directly to the game and Wells specifically. Better yet, refer to your own post in that thread (#83 and #91) where you introduce the comparisons of prior teams to this team as an attempt to put down the current coach. You're a hypocrite and a loser Sam.

Isn't your thing.

 

[The Real SamC]

I can read what you say.

I just understand its BS.

You contribute NOTHING to the conversation. You have NOTHING to say other than to rehash a man who is OFF TOPIC. You respond to EVERY non worship of the current team with the SAME crap.

Have a take, or don’t post.

 

[Marshall2004]

I am historically neutral in the Sam v. The Board war, but have some thoughts on this. First, no one gives Sam credit for how well he argues. He is not being "owned" nearly as much as everyone seems to think. His first reply in this thread was well done and persuasive. Here is how I see it.

Sam's basic point of view is that Marshall has come from the plane crash in 1970 to playing teams like Morehead State as recently as the mid-90s to once in a lifetime lightening in a bottle with Moss/Pennington/Leftwich. We have now settled out to where we are, which in the program sense should be evaluated in comparison to how far we have come from 20 years ago to now moreso than the 5 year spike in the middle of that run. It was fun, but not long term realistic to maintain that spike on an annual basis due to natural factors working against the program like population loss, small enrollment, and no natural recruiting area. Sam's position is that if your sole barometer for success is the 1999 team, then you do not have a realistic understanding of the state of Marshall and its place in college football. You essentially remove the joy from being a Marshall fan by not accepting or having pride in what the program actually is as opposed to what you think it should be.

Sam does however have human nature. Because of his beliefs that I stated above he came to resent what he viewed as "super fans" that he saw as miserable sucks on the Marshall experience during the Doc years. He thought that when compared to history, winning 7-10 games a year was in fact an accomplishment because the "worst conference in America" was actually better than the competition we were playing in the early and mid 1990s when we were enjoying the program. Human nature kicks in and he pushes back against this narrative by being a bit too defensive of Doc when there were legitimate criticisms.

That brings us to Huff. The anti-Sam crowd by and large was clamoring for Doc to be fired. Human nature kicks in and everyone is hesitant to criticize Huff too much because they have so much emotionally invested in having their "Doc has to go" position validated. On the other side of the coin, the same is true for Sam. He loves Marshall athletics, but still wants to win the argument. It is only natural. So he is so eager to make his detractors eat it that he takes the position of pointing out the faults and shortcomings of Huff to make his point that the program as a whole was doing as well or better under Doc.

I think the fan base has a lot of frustration in the state of college football as a whole and our place in it. Our best years seemed to hit at a time when they did not give us sustained success and a team like Boise had their best years at the right time in terms of access to bowls and media. The reality is that Huntington, WV is not Boise, ID and so there is a lot of truth to Sam's view of the program. For some, this view is a bit too "Kayo Marcum" if you know what I mean.

I feel that we need to make a conscious effort to support the Sun Belt Conference and not denigrate it. I also feel we need to make a conscious effort to support Huff. Regardless of the past, this is where we are right now. We aren't getting called up to the big leagues. We need to lean into what is fun about where we are. Likewise, past arguments no longer matter. We need to focus on doing the best we can with what we have and selling our product as well as possible to other fans and potential fans so that we can maximize what is available.

I realize I have written a very long, attempted rational post. To borrow a phrase, maybe a message board ain't for me. Also, I would like some links.

 

[i am herdman]

Sip a cold one while reading this and this song playing in the background.

 

[Jartard]

I am historically neutral in the Sam v. The Board war, but have some thoughts on this. First, no one gives Sam credit for how well he argues. He is not being "owned" nearly as much as everyone seems to think. His first reply in this thread was well done and persuasive. Here is how I see it.

Sam's basic point of view is that Marshall has come from the plane crash in 1970 to playing teams like Morehead State as recently as the mid-90s to once in a lifetime lightening in a bottle with Moss/Pennington/Leftwich. We have now settled out to where we are, which in the program sense should be evaluated in comparison to how far we have come from 20 years ago to now moreso than the 5 year spike in the middle of that run. It was fun, but not long term realistic to maintain that spike on an annual basis due to natural factors working against the program like population loss, small enrollment, and no natural recruiting area. Sam's position is that if your sole barometer for success is the 1999 team, then you do not have a realistic understanding of the state of Marshall and its place in college football. You essentially remove the joy from being a Marshall fan by not accepting or having pride in what the program actually is as opposed to what you think it should be.

Sam does however have human nature. Because of his beliefs that I stated above he came to resent what he viewed as "super fans" that he saw as miserable sucks on the Marshall experience during the Doc years. He thought that when compared to history, winning 7-10 games a year was in fact an accomplishment because the "worst conference in America" was actually better than the competition we were playing in the early and mid 1990s when we were enjoying the program. Human nature kicks in and he pushes back against this narrative by being a bit too defensive of Doc when there were legitimate criticisms.

That brings us to Huff. The anti-Sam crowd by and large was clamoring for Doc to be fired. Human nature kicks in and everyone is hesitant to criticize Huff too much because they have so much emotionally invested in having their "Doc has to go" position validated. On the other side of the coin, the same is true for Sam. He loves Marshall athletics, but still wants to win the argument. It is only natural. So he is so eager to make his detractors eat it that he takes the position of pointing out the faults and shortcomings of Huff to make his point that the program as a whole was doing as well or better under Doc.

I think the fan base has a lot of frustration in the state of college football as a whole and our place in it. Our best years seemed to hit at a time when they did not give us sustained success and a team like Boise had their best years at the right time in terms of access to bowls and media. The reality is that Huntington, WV is not Boise, ID and so there is a lot of truth to Sam's view of the program. For some, this view is a bit too "Kayo Marcum" if you know what I mean.

I feel that we need to make a conscious effort to support the Sun Belt Conference and not denigrate it. I also feel we need to make a conscious effort to support Huff. Regardless of the past, this is where we are right now. We aren't getting called up to the big leagues. We need to lean into what is fun about where we are. Likewise, past arguments no longer matter. We need to focus on doing the best we can with what we have and selling our product as well as possible to other fans and potential fans so that we can maximize what is available.

I realize I have written a very long, attempted rational post. To borrow a phrase, maybe a message board ain't for me. Also, I would like some links.

After reading this long, and mostly defensive post about Sam, it’s quite obvious you are the anti-Rifle.

 

[Jartard]

Sip a cold one while reading this and this song playing in the background.

View embedded media

Actually, that song was first written about Kingston, Jamaica.

 

[ThunderCat98]

I am historically neutral in the Sam v. The Board war, but have some thoughts on this. First, no one gives Sam credit for how well he argues. He is not being "owned" nearly as much as everyone seems to think. His first reply in this thread was well done and persuasive. Here is how I see it.

Sam's basic point of view is that Marshall has come from the plane crash in 1970 to playing teams like Morehead State as recently as the mid-90s to once in a lifetime lightening in a bottle with Moss/Pennington/Leftwich. We have now settled out to where we are, which in the program sense should be evaluated in comparison to how far we have come from 20 years ago to now moreso than the 5 year spike in the middle of that run. It was fun, but not long term realistic to maintain that spike on an annual basis due to natural factors working against the program like population loss, small enrollment, and no natural recruiting area. Sam's position is that if your sole barometer for success is the 1999 team, then you do not have a realistic understanding of the state of Marshall and its place in college football. You essentially remove the joy from being a Marshall fan by not accepting or having pride in what the program actually is as opposed to what you think it should be.

Sam does however have human nature. Because of his beliefs that I stated above he came to resent what he viewed as "super fans" that he saw as miserable sucks on the Marshall experience during the Doc years. He thought that when compared to history, winning 7-10 games a year was in fact an accomplishment because the "worst conference in America" was actually better than the competition we were playing in the early and mid 1990s when we were enjoying the program. Human nature kicks in and he pushes back against this narrative by being a bit too defensive of Doc when there were legitimate criticisms.

That brings us to Huff. The anti-Sam crowd by and large was clamoring for Doc to be fired. Human nature kicks in and everyone is hesitant to criticize Huff too much because they have so much emotionally invested in having their "Doc has to go" position validated. On the other side of the coin, the same is true for Sam. He loves Marshall athletics, but still wants to win the argument. It is only natural. So he is so eager to make his detractors eat it that he takes the position of pointing out the faults and shortcomings of Huff to make his point that the program as a whole was doing as well or better under Doc.

I think the fan base has a lot of frustration in the state of college football as a whole and our place in it. Our best years seemed to hit at a time when they did not give us sustained success and a team like Boise had their best years at the right time in terms of access to bowls and media. The reality is that Huntington, WV is not Boise, ID and so there is a lot of truth to Sam's view of the program. For some, this view is a bit too "Kayo Marcum" if you know what I mean.

I feel that we need to make a conscious effort to support the Sun Belt Conference and not denigrate it. I also feel we need to make a conscious effort to support Huff. Regardless of the past, this is where we are right now. We aren't getting called up to the big leagues. We need to lean into what is fun about where we are. Likewise, past arguments no longer matter. We need to focus on doing the best we can with what we have and selling our product as well as possible to other fans and potential fans so that we can maximize what is available.

I realize I have written a very long, attempted rational post. To borrow a phrase, maybe a message board ain't for me. Also, I would like some links.

 

[raleighherdfan]

Sam's position is that if your sole barometer for success is the 1999 team, then you do not have a realistic understanding of the state of Marshall and its place in college football.

I dont think anyone has ever made this a part of their argument about the current day Herd.

which in the program sense should be evaluated in comparison to how far we have come from 20 years ago

Sam doesn't want us to discuss history. Please take this to the "history thread".

everyone is hesitant to criticize Huff too much because

Because we are giving Huff the same luxury we gave Doc. A couple of years to get his players and systems in place. It's that simple.

So he is so eager to make his detractors eat it that he takes the position of pointing out the faults and shortcomings of Huff to make his point that the program as a whole was doing as well or better under Doc.

Which is exactly why he is called a hypocrite.
By the way. He cant make the case we were better under Doc, which is why he is royally butt hurt.

Sam's view of the program. For some, this view is a bit too "Kayo Marcum" if you know what I mean.

Ohh shit. Now you've done it. You actually compared Sammy to...K MARCUM!!!

I feel that we need to make a conscious effort to support the Sun Belt Conference and not denigrate it. I also feel we need to make a conscious effort to support Huff. Regardless of the past, this is where we are right now.

I agree with this, as do most on here...which is why very few, other than Sammy, are openly criticizing Huff at this point in his tenure.

 

[Marshall2004]

I went back and saw the length of my post.

 

[greengeezer]

I just finished reading Marshall2004’s excellent post and I’m ready now to take on War and Peace.

 

[mufan08]