Akron Facing Cuts

[GoHerdMarshallYes]

Akron's facing a pretty hefty set of obstacles.
From all the praise the fans on here, seem to constantly shell out for the MAC and ESPN, it doesn't seem to have helped them. It actually seems to have hurt them.

I'm not saying CUSA is any better, by the way, it's not. But is playing in front of a small crowd on weekdays really helping your competitive footprint?
Everyone complains about MU's facilities and goal post paint, imagine having forked out the money to build a brand new stadium with less than 100 people during a game.

https://m.clevescene.com/scene-and-...ns-football-program-increasingly-indefensible

 

[TwolfHerdfan]

Didn’t Akron beat us in 2016? They’ve been a thorn in our side all the way back to the MAC days.

 

[Aaron Coleman]

Thorn in the side is right. 02, 04, 16. All games that should have been won. Akron should definitely be in the FCS. They only sold out one football game in their history since the new stadium opened in 2009. Not a lot of winning there. I still think that going to the MAC would be counterproductive.

 

[GreenDuke]

Bring back the Rubber Bowl. Loved that joint.

 

[ARandomHerdFan]

Bring back the Rubber Bowl. Loved that joint.

You couldn’t beat the ticket prices...

One can of corn got you four tickets, four hot dogs, four drinks, and you got a chance to call a play.

The last item wasn’t really part of the package, there were so few people in attendance you could just yell at the coaches and they would hear you.

 

[BleedsGreen33]

It was either before we went up there in 14 or right after that ESPN(I think) that Akron was buying their own tickets to maintain a minimum sold.

 

[beefcake0520]

This isn't anything new. They have faced shortfalls for a while. Eastern Michigan is right there with them. Being in the MAC isn't the cause for their issues. If they can not afford to be in FBS, then they shouldn't be in FBS. As far as we are concerned, I am not sure how being in the MAC would be counterproductive, it doesn't get worse than CUSA. Remember when everyone thumbed their nose at the Sunbelt? That is what everyone else is doing to CUSA these days. Counterproductive in my opinion is sitting right where we are, conference has gone backwards since 2013.

 

[RhinoD]

I was at the game in Akron when Byron was carried down the field by the linemen... Outside of that iconic moment, what I remember was...

1. It was 20 degrees with a windchill of -5 because whatever genius built the Rubber Bowl built the open end of the stadium facing north, so the wind was howling into the stadium (my folks left at halftime to sit in the car and reentered with no issue because the gate security people had already peaced out, lol).

2. We are generally pretty disgusted with the mens rooms at our stadium. The Rubber Bowl made our johns look like the penthouse at the Ritz Carlton. Im pretty sure when you took a leak that it just went out a hole in the floor. Also, there was no heat that day even in the pissers.

3. There were definitely more cars in the parking lot of the adjacent factory on a Saturday afternoon than at the stadium.

 

[The Real SamC]

If neither the students, nor prospective students, nor alumni, nor locals, nor anyone cares about your football program, then why have one?

This is where the much (most?) of the lowly MAC is. It is where it has been for a long time.

And remember all of this still unsustainable math is based on its current contract, singed in a very different era before "cord cutting" was a thing and "everyone" paid for ESPN, even if they did not watch sports (which, newsflash, there are plenty of households where no one really cares about sports). Imagine the deal when the Disney Dollars dry up.

These schools live on subsidy. Yeah, subsidy can produce a team, sometimes even a team that can win. What it cannot produce is a team anyone cares about. (And before someone shouts "what about FIU or ODU or UNCC or whatever", yes, some of CUSA has issues to. The difference is a tie to the growing part of the country versus the dying part. )

The MAC is heading for a breakup. When the Disney Dollars dry up, some programs will STILL try to make it work trying to hit the taxpayers up for yet more subsidy, and screwing over the students for fees to cover sports they do not watch and do not care about. Others will do the right thing.

 

[TwolfHerdfan]

The MAC will never break up. Some schools may drop down but that league will always have a vast majority of its core members intact. To think otherwise is just crazy talk.

 

[marshallisqbu]

You couldn’t beat the ticket prices...

One can of corn got you four tickets, four hot dogs, four drinks, and you got a chance to call a play.

The last item wasn’t really part of the package, there were so few people in attendance you could just yell at the coaches and they would hear you.

Future of Marshall football.

 

[GoHerdMarshallYes]

The MAC will never break up. Some schools may drop down but that league will always have a vast majority of its core members intact. To think otherwise is just crazy talk.

Thats fine, the NCAA will just boot them all together down to the FCS level.

 

[GoHerdMarshallYes]

If neither the students, nor prospective students, nor alumni, nor locals, nor anyone cares about your football program, then why have one?

This is where the much (most?) of the lowly MAC is. It is where it has been for a long time.

And remember all of this still unsustainable math is based on its current contract, singed in a very different era before "cord cutting" was a thing and "everyone" paid for ESPN, even if they did not watch sports (which, newsflash, there are plenty of households where no one really cares about sports). Imagine the deal when the Disney Dollars dry up.

These schools live on subsidy. Yeah, subsidy can produce a team, sometimes even a team that can win. What it cannot produce is a team anyone cares about. (And before someone shouts "what about FIU or ODU or UNCC or whatever", yes, some of CUSA has issues to. The difference is a tie to the growing part of the country versus the dying part. )

The MAC is heading for a breakup. When the Disney Dollars dry up, some programs will STILL try to make it work trying to hit the taxpayers up for yet more subsidy, and screwing over the students for fees to cover sports they do not watch and do not care about. Others will do the right thing.

To counter your claim...
One of the attractions for CUSA from the FCS was the potential for growth. ODU and Charlotte come to mind for this and really neither have done so...Charlotte, hasn't produced anything. I am not sure what is going on down in NC, but that city/school/everything should not have as bad of a football team as it does...at the very least, be competitive at (the lowly) CUSA level...which they routinely struggle to do.
The same can be said for ODU...somehow they can't win despite all they have...in this conference!

Its actually a sad testament that CUSA SHOULD be better than it actually is...plenty of its members are away from the Rust Belt where the MAC resides, where those schools can have an excuse for being pitiful as their towns are pretty pitiful, and are in pretty solid economic/larger city populations.
CUSA has had some of the largest wasted potential...and frankly, ODU and Charlotte and a few others who claimed to want to compete, should be kicked out and back down to the FCS level as it is apparent they want to be FBS by association only and nothing else.

 

[BleedsGreen33]

Charlotte, hasn't produced anything. I am not sure what is going on down in NC, but that city/school/everything should not have as bad of a football team as it does..

You're surprised at their struggles? Our fans not only use WVU, but Ohio State as reasons for why we can't average 30k+ . Look how many FBS programs care in North Carolina. If you don't go to school at UNC-C you could probably care less they have football. Idoubt most of their alumni care. They grew up fens of UNC, NC State, Duke, Wake, ECU, or Appy State. Now look at all the established FCS programs in the state.

UNC-C is so far down the pecking order in that state for not only fans, but recruits. UNC-C is also smack dab in the middle of ACC and SEC country.

I said it when UNC-C moved up and joined CUSA. They'd have a honeymoon stage where there's "excitement" surrounding them, but as the losing seasons started to stack up the money and attendance would dry up.

The fact we're 2-2 with them over the last four years shows how far we've fallen off.

ODU is the same way. All the hype surrounding that once in a lifetime QB they had and moving up. Now they've started an exploratory committee to explore leaving CUSA because it's costing them more than they thought it would.

Given the obstacles each team has to overcome they're lucky they're not a lot worse off. It really is asking too much too soon. Charlotte is so young had they stayed in the FCS they would have struggled.

 

[BleedsGreen33]

Thats fine, the NCAA will just boot them all together down to the FCS level.

If we're being honest probably 20% of the FBS should be playing in the FCS.

 

[muthed]

To counter your claim...
One of the attractions for CUSA from the FCS was the potential for growth. ODU and Charlotte come to mind for this and really neither have done so...Charlotte, hasn't produced anything. I am not sure what is going on down in NC, but that city/school/everything should not have as bad of a football team as it does...at the very least, be competitive at (the lowly) CUSA level...which they routinely struggle to do.
The same can be said for ODU...somehow they can't win despite all they have...in this conference!

Its actually a sad testament that CUSA SHOULD be better than it actually is...plenty of its members are away from the Rust Belt where the MAC resides, where those schools can have an excuse for being pitiful as their towns are pretty pitiful, and are in pretty solid economic/larger city populations.
CUSA has had some of the largest wasted potential...and frankly, ODU and Charlotte and a few others who claimed to want to compete, should be kicked out and back down to the FCS level as it is apparent they want to be FBS by association only and nothing else.

But Charlotte was good enough to beat us last year.

 

[TwolfHerdfan]

But Charlotte was good enough to beat us last year.

Haven't they beaten us 2 out of the last 3-4 years? Doc needs an extension!

 

[caliherd]

If we're being honest probably 20% of the FBS should be playing in the FCS.

I would go 40% there are a ton of terrible teams in FBS that play in high school stadiums in front of 20 people on can of corn night.

 

[BleedsGreen33]

I would go 40% there are a ton of terrible teams in FBS that play in high school stadiums in front of 20 people on can of corn night.

I was trying to be nice. 40% would be 26 FBS teams which really isn't unreasonable at all. There are schools at the FBS level that field teams for the sake of saying they have a D-IA team in hopes of boosting enrollment. I forget what the number was, but an article came out about 5 years back showing only a handful of FBS teams turned a profit consistently.

It's a pride thing too. A lot of G5 teams would struggle to compete on the FCS level. Take Charlotte for example. Right now they are a higher end FCS team. They are even that because they can convince the better FCS recruit to come there because he can play FBS. I would almost guarantee if they stayed FCS they wouldn't have been competing for their conference.

The issue is that if you took away those 40% you're taking nearly half the G5 field. You might as well just start another level for the G5 because less G5 teams means less wins for G5 schools and thus broadens the P5/G5 gap.

Under the current model it's a delusion to believe the G5 is or every will be on an even playing field with an actual seat at the table. Our best team is relegated to a single bowl game that is our ceiling. The committee will never allow a G5 team into the playoff be it 4 or 8 teams.

Personally I'd much rather play for a G5 national title than the Beef O'Brady Bowl. I know I know. No one will care about us then. Got news. They don't now.

I mean look at us. We currently play a majority of our games on Facebook or Stadium.com.

I'd argue that half of the P5 doesn't matter to anyone outside their fan base and even some of them don't even matter there.

FBS is one of the biggest scams going. The higher ups make money hand over fist while most of the schools are cutting academic programs in order not to close their doors.

Little tidbit. When the realignment started the G5 conferences discussed what a G5 playoff would look like. So it was a discussed possibility that looked like an inevitable reality not too long ago.

 

[muthed]

I was trying to be nice. 40% would be 26 FBS teams which really isn't unreasonable at all. There are schools at the FBS level that field teams for the sake of saying they have a D-IA team in hopes of boosting enrollment. I forget what the number was, but an article came out about 5 years back showing only a handful of FBS teams turned a profit consistently.

It's a pride thing too. A lot of G5 teams would struggle to compete on the FCS level. Take Charlotte for example. Right now they are a higher end FCS team. They are even that because they can convince the better FCS recruit to come there because he can play FBS. I would almost guarantee if they stayed FCS they wouldn't have been competing for their conference.

The issue is that if you took away those 40% you're taking nearly half the G5 field. You might as well just start another level for the G5 because less G5 teams means less wins for G5 schools and thus broadens the P5/G5 gap.

Under the current model it's a delusion to believe the G5 is or every will be on an even playing field with an actual seat at the table. Our best team is relegated to a single bowl game that is our ceiling. The committee will never allow a G5 team into the playoff be it 4 or 8 teams.

Personally I'd much rather play for a G5 national title than the Beef O'Brady Bowl. I know I know. No one will care about us then. Got news. They don't now.

I mean look at us. We currently play a majority of our games on Facebook or Stadium.com.

I'd argue that half of the P5 doesn't matter to anyone outside their fan base and even some of them don't even matter there.

FBS is one of the biggest scams going. The higher ups make money hand over fist while most of the schools are cutting academic programs in order not to close their doors.

Little tidbit. When the realignment started the G5 conferences discussed what a G5 playoff would look like. So it was a discussed possibility that looked like an inevitable reality not too long ago.[/QUO 2o9TE].
I think I can somewhat agree with your theory but I think your numbers are incorrect. There are 130 fbs teams, 65 in P5 and 65 in G5. If you take away 40% of fbs and put them in fcs, you're down to 78 teams left - 65 P5s plus the AAC. But the idea of the P5 playing for a championship, the G5 playing for a championship and fcs playing for a championship is something I could get behind. Sure as heck would probably screw up the bowls but that's another discussion on its own.

 

[muthed]

I totally screwed up the reply but if you look at the bottom of the quote you'll find it.

 

[BleedsGreen33]

You're applying that over the full 130. That 20-40% mostly reside in the bottom of the G5. There aren't a lot of Akrons and ODUs in the P5. The P5 get the bigger slice of the pie. Not to mention your bottom P5 football schools like an Indiana are blue blood MBB programs.

The reality is most if not all of the 40% pushed down a level are coming from the G5.

Therefore you're cutting the G5 from 65 to 40-45 programs. By eliminating the bottom of the bottom of CFB you've now increased the difficulty of G5 scheduling. One by finding opponents and two taking away gimmie wins. Now this will also hurt some of the P5 as well who stack their OoC schedules because they know they aren't getting bowl eligible through their conference.

Then if you think that there will be a realignment of the P5 and G5 together you're fooling yourself.

I remember McGill writing about this when realignment began about 5 or so years ago. Eventually the ballon is going to burst and a new regional favored system will happen. Imagine if the P5 did fully break away(ESPN was debating it again this morning. Greeny pushing it and Heather Denich pushing back). You know how many G5 schools would be hating life. There's no G5 or FCS teams to pad their 6-8 win seasons.

Like I said. This whole FBS model is a farce and the pandemic is making us take a closer look at it. It needs to be blown up.

 

[Herdmeister]

You're applying that over the full 130. That 20-40% mostly reside in the bottom of the G5. There aren't a lot of Akrons and ODUs in the P5. The P5 get the bigger slice of the pie. Not to mention your bottom P5 football schools like an Indiana are blue blood MBB programs.

The reality is most if not all of the 40% pushed down a level are coming from the G5.

Therefore you're cutting the G5 from 65 to 40-45 programs. By eliminating the bottom of the bottom of CFB you've now increased the difficulty of G5 scheduling. One by finding opponents and two taking away gimmie wins. Now this will also hurt some of the P5 as well who stack their OoC schedules because they know they aren't getting bowl eligible through their conference.

Then of you think the there will be a realignment of the P5 and G5 together you're fooling yourself.

I remember McGill writing about this when realignment began about 5 or so years ago. Eventually the ballon is going to burst and a new regional favored system will happen. Imagine if the P5 did fully break away(ESPN was debating it again this morning. Greeny pushing it and Heather Denich pushing back). You know how many G5 schools would be hating life. There's no G5 or FCS teams to pad their 6-8 win seasons.

Like I said. This whole FBS model is a farce and the pandemic is making us take a closer look at it. It needs to be blown up.

very logical thinking

 

[Sean Hammond]

You're applying that over the full 130. That 20-40% mostly reside in the bottom of the G5. There aren't a lot of Akrons and ODUs in the P5. The P5 get the bigger slice of the pie. Not to mention your bottom P5 football schools like an Indiana are blue blood MBB programs.

The reality is most if not all of the 40% pushed down a level are coming from the G5.

Therefore you're cutting the G5 from 65 to 40-45 programs. By eliminating the bottom of the bottom of CFB you've now increased the difficulty of G5 scheduling. One by finding opponents and two taking away gimmie wins. Now this will also hurt some of the P5 as well who stack their OoC schedules because they know they aren't getting bowl eligible through their conference.

Then if you think that there will be a realignment of the P5 and G5 together you're fooling yourself.

I remember McGill writing about this when realignment began about 5 or so years ago. Eventually the ballon is going to burst and a new regional favored system will happen. Imagine if the P5 did fully break away(ESPN was debating it again this morning. Greeny pushing it and Heather Denich pushing back). You know how many G5 schools would be hating life. There's no G5 or FCS teams to pad their 6-8 win seasons.

Like I said. This whole FBS model is a farce and the pandemic is making us take a closer look at it. It needs to be blown up.

I agree with you, but this is where college sports are a farce. Even when taking the G5 mostly out of it, you're not going to get people to sit down at a table and agree on what's good for the collective whole. Nobody is getting A&M, Nebraska, & Missouri to sit down with Texas and work out their issues to get back to a regional B12. Nobody is going to make ND join a conference (B10). Who's going to break the ACC back up and make it more of a southern conference again? Who's going to tell Syracuse & BC they're geographically isolated out of the P5 if they can't get the B10 to accept them and if Syracuse wants to be in a good basketball conference they probably need to go FCS w/UConn in football and get the old Big East back? Who wants Rutgers? Who's going to tell the B10 that if they want to get back to 12 teams, they might need to get OSU on board with adding Cincinnati and PSU on board with adding Pitt? Who can get Duke on board to include wvu in the ACC or PSU to accept wvu in the B10?




Answer: nobody.

 

[herdalicious]

These distinctions - FCS/FBS - mean nothing anymore. Starting in the 1990's, all these I-AA schools started spending money they didn't have to play in I-A, assuming doing so would help them grow a program that would be nationally recognized, generate tons of revenue and fan attention, and help the school raise its national profile and lure students in. They joined conferences full of legacy programs (see: MAC schools) where people continue to play football without fan support because the schools have the resources to prop it up, but there's no real drive to be competitive. The up-and-comers beat up on these schools that don't really care or try, and it makes them think they're armed for war with the big boys. (Sounding familiar yet?)

First off, the whole thing was a ruse. Apart from a few rare circumstances (UCF being one of them), none of these schools had the resources to maintain that push, and when the little guys spend $1 more, the big guys spend $10 more, and it just propelled BCS/P5 spending further into the stratosphere. Transitioning programs can't keep pace, and in the short matter of two decades, some schools found themselves spending three times as much as they were when they transitioned, just to play in conferences made up almost exclusively of I-AA/FCS teams. (Come on, this has to be ringing a bell by now.)

Even in the case of UCF, they have outspent and outperformed everyone in G5, they have thrown tens of millions of dollars at their programs that they didn't have, hired shady coaches, broke NCAA rules, killed players, and still can't get a P5 conference to call them back. Nobody at the big boy table is moving to make room for somebody else; nobody up there is looking to share with anybody down here.

So we in G5 find ourselves spending all this money we don't have to play in a realm we will never be able to compete in, all the while throwing shade at the lower division, like there is something humiliating about the idea of accepting you are not a national program, and just playing low-key, community collegiate sports within your means.

 

[BleedsGreen33]

(Sounding familiar yet?)

(Come on, this has to be ringing a bell by now.)

 

[GreenDuke]

I agree with you, but this is where college sports are a farce. Even when taking the G5 mostly out of it, you're not going to get people to sit down at a table and agree on what's good for the collective whole. Nobody is getting A&M, Nebraska, & Missouri to sit down with Texas and work out their issues to get back to a regional B12. Nobody is going to make ND join a conference (B10). Who's going to break the ACC back up and make it more of a southern conference again? Who's going to tell Syracuse & BC they're geographically isolated out of the P5 if they can't get the B10 to accept them and if Syracuse wants to be in a good basketball conference they probably need to go FCS w/UConn in football and get the old Big East back? Who wants Rutgers? Who's going to tell the B10 that if they want to get back to 12 teams, they might need to get OSU on board with adding Cincinnati and PSU on board with adding Pitt? Who can get Duke on board to include wvu in the ACC or PSU to accept wvu in the B10?




Answer: nobody.

Well, Duke is one vote out of fifteen.
The ACC admitted VT and, good lord, Louisville so who knows.
I also,for years, thought uncheat did things the right way academically. We now know that was not true for over twenty five years. In other words things had changed even before the panic and depression hit.

 

[2.0]

I agree with you, but this is where college sports are a farce. Even when taking the G5 mostly out of it, you're not going to get people to sit down at a table and agree on what's good for the collective whole. Nobody is getting A&M, Nebraska, & Missouri to sit down with Texas and work out their issues to get back to a regional B12. Nobody is going to make ND join a conference (B10). Who's going to break the ACC back up and make it more of a southern conference again? Who's going to tell Syracuse & BC they're geographically isolated out of the P5 if they can't get the B10 to accept them and if Syracuse wants to be in a good basketball conference they probably need to go FCS w/UConn in football and get the old Big East back? Who wants Rutgers? Who's going to tell the B10 that if they want to get back to 12 teams, they might need to get OSU on board with adding Cincinnati and PSU on board with adding Pitt? Who can get Duke on board to include wvu in the ACC or PSU to accept wvu in the B10?




Answer: nobody.

Ive always said the Big10 missed not bringing in Syracuse, Pittsburgh, Missouri, and Kansas instead of Rutgers and Maryland.

 

[i am herdman]

Thats fine, the NCAA will just boot them all together down to the FCS level.

I don't think the NCAA will do that at all. They have made it this far.

 

[The Real SamC]

NCAA - What exactly is wrong with I-A exactly as it is? Not everybody is elite elite elite. And? The NCAA sets a standard and we meet it, as do many others. None of us are going the win the national championship. Knew that going in. And, BTW, if you think I-A should only be 20 or 30 top schools, then why should DI basketball be different. Maybe holding on to winning one game once is small time?

Big 10 - The Big 10 is never going to expand, except for Notre Dame if it wanted to.

 

[GoHerdMarshallYes]

You're surprised at their struggles? Our fans not only use WVU, but Ohio State as reasons for why we can't average 30k+ . Look how many FBS programs care in North Carolina. If you don't go to school at UNC-C you could probably care less they have football. Idoubt most of their alumni care. They grew up fens of UNC, NC State, Duke, Wake, ECU, or Appy State. Now look at all the established FCS programs in the state.

UNC-C is so far down the pecking order in that state for not only fans, but recruits. UNC-C is also smack dab in the middle of ACC and SEC country.

I said it when UNC-C moved up and joined CUSA. They'd have a honeymoon stage where there's "excitement" surrounding them, but as the losing seasons started to stack up the money and attendance would dry up.

The fact we're 2-2 with them over the last four years shows how far we've fallen off.

ODU is the same way. All the hype surrounding that once in a lifetime QB they had and moving up. Now they've started an exploratory committee to explore leaving CUSA because it's costing them more than they thought it would.

Given the obstacles each team has to overcome they're lucky they're not a lot worse off. It really is asking too much too soon. Charlotte is so young had they stayed in the FCS they would have struggled.

Wow, you completely missed the point.
I'm going to let you re-read what I wrote and try again. I expect a more proper response submitted and posted by the end of the day.
I will periodically check my notifcations on here to see if you have done the assignment.

 

[GoHerdMarshallYes]

If we're being honest probably 20% of the FBS should be playing in the FCS.

This I agree with. The G5 really should be the G2 and a combination of schools who win and actively try to compete.
Its obvious plenty of schools in all the leagues, are not producing to make themselves better, more consistently.
In the P5, that's fine. For all they have, Bama wouldn't want Vanderbilt to start really pouring more money or efforts into their programs.
But in the G5, it really matters that the rest of your conference can compete since G5's scheduling already puts them at a disadvantage.

 

[GoHerdMarshallYes]

But Charlotte was good enough to beat us last year.

Wow...22-48 over the last 5 years...and beating "the most mediocre Marshall team in history with a terrible QB and awful coach and everything's terrible, bring back chad and randy and I refuse to accept this team winning because we have a wvu guy as HC and its a conspiracy" Marshall for 1 year?
Uhm...congrats? They beat 6 other teams as well. Wow, 1 winning season since they've moved up...with all their facilities everyone always uses to talk down about Marshall with.

 

[GoHerdMarshallYes]

I don't think the NCAA will do that at all. They have made it this far.

The NCAA could outright murder someone in front of their HQ and get away with it.
The MAC has ZERO say in what happens to them or what the NCAA decides to do.
If the NCAA decides they are relegating them down, the MAC may complain, but ultimately, they'll go back down. Its evident in how the MAC is currently treated, making articles like the one I just posted in this thread, possible.
Akron is just the beginning and I'm sure they'd love to just tear into the NCAA about how they are being treated, they won't.

 

[BleedsGreen33]

The NCAA could outright murder someone in front of their HQ and get away with it.
The MAC has ZERO say in what happens to them or what the NCAA decides to do.
If the NCAA decides they are relegating them down, the MAC may complain, but ultimately, they'll go back down. Its evident in how the MAC is currently treated, making articles like the one I just posted in this thread, possible.
Akron is just the beginning and I'm sure they'd love to just tear into the NCAA about how they are being treated, they won't.

The biggest problem is the G5 schools won't stand up to the NCAA which they supposedly equally make up. They're scared to death to bite the hand that feeds them. Scared they won't be allowed to sit at the kids' table off in the corner.

The G5 needs to grow a pair of balls and realize that we truly do have have leverage. The P5 want to keep up the lie that we don't, but if we ever did pull away or they pushed us down half of the P5 would suffer if not more. A lot of their member schools get bowl eligible because of the G5 and FCS team in their OoC schedule. Go look at Baylor's OoC slate every year. Take the G5 and FCS away and they would not be enjoying this double digits win seasons. Schools like Rutgers, Indiana, Vandy, and the like would be posting losing seasons.

Fact is they need us a lot more than we need them. Without the P5 the G5 would largely be the same. A collection of schools that the vast majority of CFB fans don't know exist and have never seen their games. The P5 however would start to crumble from within.

 

[herdalicious]

Fact is they need us a lot more than we need them.

I'll say its mutually beneficial - when you can earn 3%-4% of your annual budget in a single afternoon playing a road football game, that's a pretty big boost for schools who need it. Just the same, you're absolutely right that if P5 was ever forced to play itself exclusively like the semi-pro league they supposedly want to be, there'd be an awful lot of Bengals and Dolphins and just a handful of Patriots and Chiefs.

 

[Sean Hammond]

I'll say its mutually beneficial - when you can earn 3%-4% of your annual budget in a single afternoon playing a road football game, that's a pretty big boost for schools who need it. Just the same, you're absolutely right that if P5 was ever forced to play itself exclusively like the semi-pro league they supposedly want to be, there'd be an awful lot of Bengals and Dolphins and just a handful of Patriots and Chiefs.

Correct correlation. Imagine if the Bengals and Dolphins were able to schedule a couple CFL teams, a couple more college teams, play their division games, and end up .500. Branch out and play the Redskins/Cardinals in a bowl game, win that thing, and think you're champions. Woohoo! Trophies and contract extensions for everyone!!

 

[BleedsGreen33]

I'll say its mutually beneficial - when you can earn 3%-4% of your annual budget in a single afternoon playing a road football game, that's a pretty big boost for schools who need it. Just the same, you're absolutely right that if P5 was ever forced to play itself exclusively like the semi-pro league they supposedly want to be, there'd be an awful lot of Bengals and Dolphins and just a handful of Patriots and Chiefs.

I agree with you on the budget, but if we weren't forced to "keep up" would we need as large of budgets?

 

[BleedsGreen33]

Correct correlation. Imagine if the Bengals and Dolphins were able to schedule a couple CFL teams, a couple more college teams, play their division games, and end up .500. Branch out and play the Redskins/Cardinals in a bowl game, win that thing, and think you're champions. Woohoo! Trophies and contract extensions for everyone!!

That is the best comparison I have ever read. It really does highlight the delusion of college football.

 

[i am herdman]

The biggest problem is the G5 schools won't stand up to the NCAA which they supposedly equally make up. They're scared to death to bite the hand that feeds them. Scared they won't be allowed to sit at the kids' table off in the corner.

The G5 needs to grow a pair of balls and realize that we truly do have have leverage. The P5 want to keep up the lie that we don't, but if we ever did pull away or they pushed us down half of the P5 would suffer if not more. A lot of their member schools get bowl eligible because of the G5 and FCS team in their OoC schedule. Go look at Baylor's OoC slate every year. Take the G5 and FCS away and they would not be enjoying this double digits win seasons. Schools like Rutgers, Indiana, Vandy, and the like would be posting losing seasons.

Fact is they need us a lot more than we need them. Without the P5 the G5 would largely be the same. A collection of schools that the vast majority of CFB fans don't know exist and have never seen their games. The P5 however would start to crumble from within.

Really there is no leverage. And, it might not all have to do with the NCAA.

Let's say you are Marshall or GA Southern(just using examples) and you say we are going to go after the P5. OK, you are the school President and you get a call from the governor, the State Senator, the legislator(s), saying you know you better back down and you know that new chemistry lab you want? Those new sidewalks or campus? That new building? Well, that can go away. Don't make the big school look bad(wvu, UGA, etc.). That's how politics work.

Who butters the bread in Georgia? The UGA or GA Southern? Who butters the bread in Ohio? Buckeyes or the Bobcats? To take on the P5 takes resources and the smaller schools have to go the state governments to get it. They would get backed down in a minute.

Not gonna happen. Go to sue them? you need money and resources and guess what ? They have more of it and the backing behind them. Is it really a hill worth dying on?

And, right now, with the world the shape it is in you are not going to get any favors. Many of the states are going to be near broke. It would be easier for them just to drop some football programs.