All my life...

[big_country90]

I have heard my entire life, in church, how there may come a time in this country where Christians are actually put in jail for their beliefs. I thought 'no, not in America...we believe in freedom.'

Well, here we are. The lady in Kentucky is being ordered by a judge to jail until she changes her ways. I could never have fathomed that this would have actually happened. Not in America. Not in my lifetime. Well, you leftists are getting your way.

I hope you're happy. Hopefully we'll start finding ways to jail you for your beliefs, then we'll be the Soviet Union.

 

[i am herdman]

You all thought I was joking when I said they would lock me up like the dad in Red Dawn.

Seriously, they are getting what they wanted. Racial divide, bashing Christianity, and a weakened national defense.

 

[GK4Herd]

This isn't denial of religious rights. This is failure to perform the duties of her job. She can quit and hate gays in church anytime she wants.

 

[i am herdman]

This isn't denial of religious rights. This is failure to perform the duties of her job. She can quit and hate gays in church anytime she wants.

For how long? Just wait...they will start going after ministers who refuse to perform marriages.

When you going to realize these people will never be satisfied or stop. They are going to force you to like gays. But, the gays are only part of it. They want to destroy Christianity and honestly the country.

 

[i am herdman]

 

[i am herdman]

Ben Carson is right. Right out of the playbook of dictators and those who control.

Black Lives Matter is nothing more than a puppet to divide. Somebody way high up is orchestrating that mess. I am telling your right now.

 

[GK4Herd]

If the government ever steps in and tries to make churches perform these marriages against their belief I will adamantly oppose it. But until then I want to see the separation of church and state like the constitution sets forth. This clerk refusing to issue license is breaching the responsibilities of her job. She is in a government position and not a church. Her personal right to worship and practice her religion is not being breached in any manner.

 

[riflearm2]

Ben Carson is an absolute fvcking moron. He is going around supporting the "angel of death" for brutally torturing ISIS soldiers, not acknowledging that the same guy has supported killing Americans.

BC, as GK pointed out, she isn't being jailed for her beliefs. Use a little bit of sense, please.

 

[i am herdman]

Ben Carson is an absolute fvcking moron. He is going around supporting the "angel of death" for brutally torturing ISIS soldiers, not acknowledging that the same guy has supported killing Americans.

BC, as GK pointed out, she isn't being jailed for her beliefs. Use a little bit of sense, please.

Ben Carson is a moron. OK. Put down your crack pipe. rifle thinks Ben Carson is a moron. The same guy that went to the hood to buy a used cell phone thinks Ben Carson is a moron.

She is absolutely being jailed for her beliefs.

This damn overreaching nazi court and admininstration and congress can't even let KY sort this mess out. Why?

This country is DONE for. Just a matter of time.

 

[i am herdman]

If the government ever steps in and tries to make churches perform these marriages against their belief I will adamantly oppose it. But until then I want to see the separation of church and state like the constitution sets forth. This clerk refusing to issue license is breaching the responsibilities of her job. She is in a government position and not a church. Her personal right to worship and practice her religion is not being breached in any manner.

Too Late then GK. Once they get that far it will be too late.

 

[big_country90]

Ben Carson is an absolute fvcking moron. He is going around supporting the "angel of death" for brutally torturing ISIS soldiers, not acknowledging that the same guy has supported killing Americans.

BC, as GK pointed out, she isn't being jailed for her beliefs. Use a little bit of sense, please.

She absolutely is. The state is forcing her to do something against her beliefs and she refuses, so they are jailing her until she agrees to do what they say...which is in direct contradiction to her religious beliefs. This isn't even a private company doing this to her. This is the government. That is a disctinction made on here all the time when discussing freedoms.. We are supposed to have protection from the government. How can you all support this, regardless of political or religious affiliation?

 

[i am herdman]

So should lock...Obama up for failing to enforce immigration laws? He is directly mandated by law and the constitution to enforce federal law. That is his job.

Should we lock up officials in San Francisco up for establishing a sanctuary city in clear violation of US federal law.

The list could go on and on.

There was no reason to lock this woman up over a religious belief.

 

[HerdandHokies]

She absolutely is. The state is forcing her to do something against her beliefs and she refuses, so they are jailing her until she agrees to do what they say...which is in direct contradiction to her religious beliefs. This isn't even a private company doing this to her. This is the government. That is a disctinction made on here all the time when discussing freedoms.. We are supposed to have protection from the government. How can you all support this, regardless of political or religious affiliation?

What part of her beliefs prohibits her from resigning as a county clerk, being that she isn't willing to perform the responsibilities of that role?

 

[i am herdman]

Can gays still get married in KY?

Who is issuing the certificates now in Rowan County while she is locked up?

 

[big_country90]

What part of her beliefs prohibits her from resigning as a county clerk, being that she isn't willing to perform the responsibilities of that role?

Why should she resign simply because she doesnt believe in gay marriage? And furthermore, Mike Huckabee is right. Which law forces her to do this in the first place? The Supreme Court ruling certainly doesn't. That's on Congress.

 

[big_country90]

I have become far less political and much more moderate over the last 10+ years. But this is ridiculous.

To quote Dr. Dre:

Y'all n***** gonna keep f***** around with me and turn me back into the old me.

 

[HerdandHokies]

Why should she resign simply because she doesnt believe in gay marriage? And furthermore, Mike Huckabee is right. Which law forces her to do this in the first place? The Supreme Court ruling certainly doesn't. That's on Congress.

She can believe whatever she wants, but part of her job is issuing marriage licenses. If she doesn't want to do her job then she should resign.

 

[i am herdman]

In North Carolina they still pray before football games. Are they going to lock people up for doing it?

Bunch of commie bastards.

 

[herdfan06]

She absolutely is. The state is forcing her to do something against her beliefs and she refuses, so they are jailing her until she agrees to do what they say...which is in direct contradiction to her religious beliefs. This isn't even a private company doing this to her. This is the government. That is a disctinction made on here all the time when discussing freedoms.. We are supposed to have protection from the government. How can you all support this, regardless of political or religious affiliation?

Does this not have more to do with her refusing to allow her Deputies to issue the licenses?

You have long supported Government involvement in marriage, we would not be in this predicament if the government would get the heck out of marriage.

 

[Raoul Duke MU]

Good Lord, take off the tinfoil hat.

This little tyrant is EVERYTHING you conservatives say you hate about government. Feels entitled to her office because her Mommy had it, runs it like a fiefdom, doesn't follow the Constitution (how many times have both of you said this about Obama), sticking her nose in the business of citizens, doesn't do shit for work and still gets paid, is going to cost the taxpayers an arm and a leg, etc.

The only issue here is the Rule of Law. She took an oath to uphold the Constitution. Unfortunately, she didn't mean it. She took a big ol' shit on the Constitution. A judge told her it isn't cool to shit on the Constitution, she thumbed her nose at him, and is getting what any of us would get for thumbing our nose at a Federal judge. The irony is that is real equality: government officials are held to the same, and higher, standard than the rest of us. God Bless America, and God bless this REPUBLICAN, Christian judge (appointed by George W Bush, for goodness sake) who explained it to her and held her to the Rule of Law...which is all we have between us and anarchy (which she is espousing, not religion).

 

[herdfan06]

So should lock...Obama up for failing to enforce immigration laws? He is directly mandated by law and the constitution to enforce federal law. That is his job.

Aren't deportations up?

 

[riflearm2]

The issue amongst us on this board isn't a beliefs or ideology issue. It is a damn intelligence issue.

If I were that dumb broad, and I refused to issue any licenses because I believed that marriage was wrong for anyone, the same thing would happen. If I granted licenses to those underage and refused to stop, the same thing would happen.

Nobody gives a shit what her beliefs are. When she is allowed to clock out each day, she can voice her beliefs as much as she wants. But, those beliefs cannot stop her from doing her job function.

 

[ToesMU]

She absolutely should be jailed for displaying contempt for the courts and laws of the land. She is a PUBLIC official, elected to SERVE the PUBLIC, bottom line. Her personal religious beliefs have absolutely ZERO to do with her OBLIGATION to perform her job! She gives religion a bad name.

 

[i am herdman]

Is using the term Queer going to become a hate crime?

If you don't want to bake the whiny f****r's a cake they sue and it becomes a federal case.

 

[ToesMU]

Not talking about a cake, Archie, talking about an elected official refusing to do her freakin' job.

 

[i am herdman]

Toes that became a case as well.

You have to bake them a cake if they want one.

I might as well drive up there and let the goons lock me up as well.

 

[wisemaniac]

Ben Carson is far from a moron. And this girl isn't doing her damn job. While I'm not a fan of government, I'm really not a fan of wasting tax payer money not to do the job you're paid to do.

 

[i am herdman]

What specific laws did she break?

 

[i am herdman]

I keep hearing she is not doing the job she is paid to do. Do the feds pay her?

Well.if that is so isn't she on the rowan county ky payroll? Would that be a matter for the county and state to figure out?

I think Kentucky has a plan in place to deal with those kind of circumstances.

 

[herdfan06]

What specific laws did she break?

One of my friends posted this on facebook (he is a Lawyer).

Since my news feed has blown up over how Rowan County clerk Kim Davis could be jailed for her religious beliefs, here is how.

When a person defies an order of the Court, they can be charged with Contempt of Court. There are essentially two types of contempt: (1) being rude, disrespectful to the judge or other attorneys or causing a disturbance in the courtroom; (2) willful failure to obey an order of the court (Legal Dictionary | Law.com). A judge may impose sanctions such as a fine or jail for someone found guilty of contempt of court. In Ms. Davis’ case she is guilty of constructive contempt; it is when a person fails to fulfill the will of the court as it applies to outside obligations of the person. In most cases, constructive contempt is considered to be in the realm of civil contempt because of its passive nature. In the United States, relevant federal statutes include 18 U.S.C. §§ 401–403 and Federal Rule of Criminal Procedure 42. The civil sanction for contempt is limited in its imposition for so long as the disobedience to the court's order continues: once the party complies with the court's order, the sanction is lifted. The imposed party is said to "hold the keys" to their own cell, thus conventional due process is not required. The burden of proof for civil contempt is a preponderance of the evidence. In “Chadwick v. Janecka” (3d Cir. 2002), a U.S. Court of Appeals held that H. Beatty Chadwick could be held indefinitely under federal law, for his failure to produce $2,500,000 as a state court had ordered in a civil trial. Chadwick had been imprisoned for nine years at that time and continued to be held in prison until 2009, when a state court set him free after 14 years, making his imprisonment the longest on a contempt charge to date.

Whether you agree or disagree with Ms. Davis’ position she is guilty of contempt. The problem I have with U.S. District Judge David Bunning’s ruling is that, for a marriage licenses to be valid in the Commonwealth of Kentucky it must have the signature of the Clerk of Courts, which would be Kim Davis. Her signature cannot be affixed by a deputy clerk without her authorization, which she will not authorize, and the U.S. District Court does not have the legal authority to order. The really troubling part of the order is, we know that Judge Bunning is aware of this because of an Amicus Curie brief we filed in the case.

 

[i am herdman]

She has broken no law. She went against a court ruling.

Judges can't make law.

Of course the constitution doesn't mean shit anymore.

Whatever happened to the defense of marriage act?

Anybody have a copy of the Kentucky constitution?

 

[riflearm2]

Ben Carson is far from a moron. .

Carson has publicly supported the "angel of death." That guy, Azreal, fought against U.S. soldiers. Now, he acts just like the other barbaric fighters in that region. He had an enemy tied upside down to hang, tortured him for hours, lit his body on fire, then used his sword to filet his leg to show how well the guy had been cooked. He then walked off video laughing.

The guy is as much of a psychopath as the others over there involved in the fighting.

But, hey, this week, he is the enemy of our enemy, so he must be a friend, right? Wrong. That's been shown decade after decade over there, yet Carson supports the guy who killed our troops.

That makes Carson a moron.

 

[ToesMU]

Of course she broke the law, Herdman: it's against the law to defy an order of the court! She's also defying an order of the Governor of the Commonwealth of Kentucky. At the end of the day, what's really doing is old time, cheap politics: wrapping herself in the flag of an emotional political issue, unpopular amongst her base, and that has already been decided by the courts of the land (sounds like George Wallace) in an attempt to hold on to an elected office that her family has controlled for 70 years. She couldn't care less about the religious aspect of this case - she just wants the publicity and money that comes along with it.

 

[herdit44]

She has broken no law. She went against a court ruling.

Judges can't make law.

which is against the law. the judge didn't make the law, he's only enforcing the law.

 

[wisemaniac]

Carson has publicly supported the "angel of death." That guy, Azreal, fought against U.S. soldiers. Now, he acts just like the other barbaric fighters in that region. He had an enemy tied upside down to hang, tortured him for hours, lit his body on fire, then used his sword to filet his leg to show how well the guy had been cooked. He then walked off video laughing.

The guy is as much of a psychopath as the others over there involved in the fighting.

But, hey, this week, he is the enemy of our enemy, so he must be a friend, right? Wrong. That's been shown decade after decade over there, yet Carson supports the guy who killed our troops.

That makes Carson a moron.

I hadn't even heard of this one guy, Abu Azrael until this thread. And how, exactly, is Carson supporting him?

 

[GK4Herd]

It really baffles me that people believe that this woman is somehow being denied some kind of religious rights. This isn't a religious issue at all. This is a government official breaching the responsibilities of her job. She is free to believe however she wants to believe. If her religious beliefs are compromised by carrying out the responsibility of her job she is free to leave it. No one is stopping her. This has nothing to do with religion. This would be no different than an employee of the DMV refusing to issue a license to an individual because they are Catholic or red headed because their personal religious belief system told them it was wrong.

The very reason that our forefathers saw fit to have a constitutional guarantee of a separation of church and state is because they were smart enough to know that when the government got involved in religion you'd have a mess. I mean, it's not like we don't have a precedence for the abuses of a government that sticks it nose into religion with the Church of England. This renegade public clerk chooses to wrap herself into the insular circle of religious supporters who have elevated her to some kind of hero status. She is reveling in it.

The sad part is that these people are too near sighted to see that allowing this woman to practice her religion within the confines of a government job is the LAST thing they want. What happens when a Methodist clerk decides not to issue marriage license to a Baptist or Catholic because their own particular brand of religion doesn't jive with others.

And I might add that until the Republicans divorce themselves from this type of behavior they are going to struggle to get elected.

 

[ThunderCat98]

I can't like this enough^^^

Well said.

 

[WV-FAN]

as a clerk of the court, when sworn into her position, wonder if she promised to uphold the law, the constitution, etc., or if she promised to uphold her religious beliefs. +1 to GK.

 

[imherdfan]

GK nailed it!

 

[ToesMU]

GK is spot on; actually surprised, though, that so many republicans continue to back her - republican politicians are usually pretty quick to divorce themselves from controversial women