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Another What Would You Do

Y.A.G Si Ye Nots

Platinum Buffalo
Mar 7, 2010
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Home Wrecker
Where I have mostly lived for the last two years, my neighborhood - especially now that the dog owners have been forced out - is very quiet. I have a courtyard area with tables/chairs, a breezeway area with tons of stuff in it (completely fenced in but easily accessible), and a lounge/chairs/pillows on the front porch, but nothing has ever been taken. The worst thing I ever had was a couple of beer bottles left overnight on the table in the courtyard. A former neighbor a few houses down used to have weekly backyard parties, and I am sure one of the attendees stopped for a break in my courtyard on the walk home and drank some beer. No big deal. That's the worst thing I have had to my property here in two years.

Two nights ago (late Sunday night), I pulled into my driveway at around 12:20 am. I fell asleep around 1 am. I have three cars and only two garages, so I leave one vehicle in my driveway. Having left a car outside here for almost two years, I have never had an issue. I went out to my car yesterday morning and noticed that one of my hoses had been unraveled from the box it is kept in and dragged out near the sidewalk. I thought that was odd. I assumed one of two things: 1) the deer who make nightly stops in my courtyard to munch on a fruit tree dragged it out 2) the lawn people came earlier than usual and just forgot to wind the hose back in the box.

Then, when I got to my car parked outside, I saw that my side view mirror had been pushed all of the way back. Still, I was naive enough to briefly think a deer may have ran into it at night while running out of the road. A second later, I saw that my driver door handle was broken. While still attached, somebody had violently tried opening it and broke it to the point that the door can't be opened from the inside or outside.

I then noticed that the windshield wiper on the back of my car was pointed directly out and bent to the point that it is broken. I saw that the glass cover on the fog light in the front was kicked/cracked. After getting in my car and starting it to make sure everything else was alright, my TPM (tire pressure monitor) warning light came on- first it said that my rear left tire was low, then it said that the TPM monitor was malfunctioning. I looked at the tire and it seemed to have enough air in it. I called the police, filled out an online report, and then took the car to put air in the back tire. I drove another car the rest of yesterday to see what the tire would do. Thirty minutes ago, I just went out to the car for the first time today. The tire is flat, so obviously the person who vandalized my car also did something to the tire. Clearly, even though somebody broke the door handle trying to get into the car, it wasn't a case of somebody trying to steal things. A thief isn't going to do all of the other stuff and make noise/draw attention. It was clearly a drunk person who did it.

This is where it gets interesting:

While I was just out there inspecting my car again, I saw a well-dressed young guy walking around near my backyard (my house extends long in the back and has about 50 yards between the next house and mine). He approached me while I was looking at the damage to my car and asked if I had seen a wallet in the area yesterday or today. I hadn't seen one, and he went on to explain why he was there.

He works and lives about 20 minutes away in another city and is on his lunch break. He had his work ID badge on (I believe it was from a hospital). He was in business casual clothes and was a legit guy - he wasn't scummy or a bullshitter. He said he just went through a divorce, came up here for Saturday and Sunday night to get away from the divorce and stay with friends, and by his own words, "was inebriated" two nights ago (which makes it Sunday night). Sometime early Monday morning, he left his friend's house and called an Uber. He doesn't remember much from that night. While he believes he was looking for his Uber, a neighbor of mine (which I need to find out which one) called the police to report a drunk guy walking/sitting right next to where my driveway is (according to the police log I just read online). This was the drunk guy. He said the police charged him with public intox and made him stay the night in jail. However, he had no identification on him when arrested, so he came up on his lunch break to see if he lost his wallet in the area where he was found sitting down by the police (right next to my driveway). I told him that I didn't find a wallet, but I explained why I was out looking at my car and showed him the damage that happened two nights earlier. He apologized . . . said the last thing he remembers from that night is eating at a restaurant with his friends. I apologized in advance but basically accused him and told him that it was way too coincidental that I've had cars in my driveway for two years here, never had an issue, then the night a guy happens to be arrested for public intox sitting next to my driveway (on a night he can't remember anything that happened) is the same night that my car is vandalized. He promised that he had no recollection whatsoever of that night. He said he very well could have done the damage but that he just doesn't remember it. At that point, he kept saying "Yeah, it was Friday or Saturday night, right," which I noticed was a change from his original comment that it was two nights ago. I told him it was two nights ago, like he originally said his incident was from, and then he said he really couldn't remember which night it was.

I showed him fingerprints all over my car and lied to him by saying that the police came yesterday and lifted them off of my car (which they didn't do). I told him it would take them two weeks to get the results back from the lab. I asked him if he was fingerprinted when they took him in, which he was. He then asked if there was any way - assuming the fingerprints (which weren't really taken) implicated him - that he could pay for all of the damage and not have the police involved. He offered to give me his cell number and work phone. I told him that once I heard back from the police about the fingerprints, they will ask if I want to press charges. He basically said he'd do anything possible to avoid having me press charges, his public intox was the first arrest in his life, that he has a really good job and just went through a divorce, and that he simply made a bad decision by drinking way too much. He said he was nervous just standing there talking to me and isn't a bad person.

He gave me the officer's name who found and arrested him. I have left a voicemail for that officer. I am 99.9% sure that this guy is the one who caused the damage. It's just way too coincidental. I found his arrest on my block the same night, and the street my driveway/garages are on has very, very little foot traffic . . . especially between 1 am and 8 am. I found his arrest report online which shows he was arrested early Monday morning (late Sunday night) which verifies it being the same time my car was damaged.

How far do I push it? Will the police be able to do anything about it without any solid evidence? I haven't gone to the BMW dealership yet, but I am guessing the door handle, glass cover, wiper, new tire, and tire monitor (one of them was ripped out from inside the wheelwell) are easily going to cost me $1500+.

No problems for two years parking in my driveway. The night a drunk guy is found sitting next to my driveway late at night and is arrested is the same night my car is vandalized by a drunk. If the police don't have enough to press charges, do I push this guy (he is 28 and by all accounts seems like a respectable guy) to pay for the damages being assured he did it?
 
You don't make him pay for anything, unless you can prove he actually did it. I'm guessing if it comes down to actually paying you for damages, someone will get in his ear, and convince him not to pay you, or request to see proof of the crime.

Why wouldn't the police dust for prints when they were actually there? That's pretty routine for a cop to do, even when you live in the ghetto.

I would also check to see where Coach Jenkins was during the early morning hours of your incident.
 
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WHAT?!?!

i think the dog owners framed him. "look, drunk guy next to H3's place, let's get that fvcker back!"
 
Let the police handle it. Encourage them to get fingerprints and let them know about your hunch. Don't go beyond that. If the police decide to add destruction of property to his charge, then let your insurance company know and they can pursue making him pay for all the damages.
 
I think the guy did it . Sounds like he is trying to own up to it. I would go get an estimate quickly and tell them to over shoot the estimate by 20%. That's in case they run into other problems. I would do that ASAP. I would call the guy or contact him and tell him he as 48 hours to get you that amount of money and you write a bill of sale calling it good.

I would give the guy a second chance. But, I am nice. Sounds like he is trying to make it right. I don't think the cops will get involved and fingerprints on a car? Well, good luck with that. Still not going to prove he did it. You will get your money quicker doing it my way and move on.
 
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Why wouldn't the police dust for prints when they were actually there? That's pretty routine for a cop to do, even when you live in the ghetto.


Why wouldn't the police dust for prints when they were actually there? That's pretty routine for a cop to do, even when you live in the ghetto.

They never came. When I called to file a police report, they said I could do it online, have it approved, and then sent back to me within a certain amount of time. It automatically generated a report back to me yesterday when I sent in the picture and info of the crime. The other option was to wait approximately two hours for the police to arrive, but even in that case, I can't imagine they would take the time and expense to fingerprint for damage done to a vehicle.

Let the police handle it. Encourage them to get fingerprints and let them know about your hunch. Don't go beyond that. If the police decide to add destruction of property to his charge, then let your insurance company know and they can pursue making him pay for all the damages.

If the damage is more than $2500, which I don't think it is but it could possibly be, it would be a felony charge on him. He seemed like a decent kid. I don't want to destroy the kid's life over a drunken, idiotic night. When I told him that I was sure he was the one who did it considering the circumstances, he was very adamant that he would pay for everything as long as I didn't press charges.

The kid didn't even care about finding his wallet for his personal belongings, but rather, because he had his corporate credit card in it. He didn't want to tell his employer that he lost it and have them discover his public intox arrest.

Besides the money factor involved, I am just as annoyed about the time factor. I have run flats on that car, so I drove to the gas station down the street to put air in it. Out of habit, I shut the door since it won't lock unless I press lock on the remote. However, since the driver door is now broken, even though the door was unlocked, it wouldn't open. So I was locked out of my car with my phone inside of it. I had to wait an hour for AAA to arrive and get in my car. Now, I am at Discount Tire for a two hour wait to see where the leak is on the tire. Getting recouped for the cost of the damage is important to me but hours upon hours of driving/waiting/etc. to get this stuff fixed is just as burdensome to me.
 
I think the guy did it . Sounds like he is trying to own up to it. I would go get an estimate quickly and tell them to over shoot the estimate by 20%. That's in case they run into other problems. I would do that ASAP. I would call the guy or contact him and tell him he as 48 hours to get you that amount of money and you write a bill of sale calling it good.

I would give the guy a second chance. But, I am nice. Sounds like he is trying to make it right. I don't think the cops will get involved and fingerprints on a car? Well, good luck with that. Still not going to prove he did it. You will get your money quicker doing it my way and move on.

Agreed. Again, considering the situation, I am 99.9% sure he did it. I am waiting for the arresting officer to call me back (I think he is off today) to get more specifics and to see if I can talk to the neighbor who called about the kid.

He is trying to make it right. He did try to change his story from "two nights ago" to "Friday or Saturday night" after I told him what happened to my car two nights ago, but the arrest record showed that his incident was the exact same night around the same hours on the exact same little street/block where there is only one other house and my driveway. I don't want to push for a felony charge (or even an added misdemeanor) if he is willing to resolve it.
 
Why wouldn't the police dust for prints when they were actually there?

The police don't care about random vandalism.

I agree, the guy probably did it. But you don't know he did it. You are shit out of luck. I will say this is one time that if you find his wallet it would ethical to keep any cash and then throw it in a random dumpster.

This courtyard thing grabbed my attention...is this a common courtyard, or yours only? If it is yours only and it is fenced in...I'd flip if I found some random drunk on my back deck.
 
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I think he did it as well. I don't believe his failure to remember story. Can you turn it into your insurance provider? I mean I am not sure you can prove he did it, but it has his name written all over it.
 
Most cars have these awesome little inventions called alarms. They tend to go off when people are messing with your vehicle. Maybe you should look into making sure

Car alarms don't go off from somebody popping a windshield wiper, pushing the side view mirror off, pulling the door handle so hard that it breaks, and even kicking a light many times. The built-in car alarm works when somebody breaches a door without using the remote/key/unlock from the inside.

I agree, the guy probably did it. But you don't know he did it. You are shit out of luck. I will say this is one time that if you find his wallet it would ethical to keep any cash and then throw it in a random dumpster.

That's not true. There are plenty of cases built on circumstantial evidence, especially in small crimes, where some police pressure can get the culprit to cop to it or plea down and accept guilt. A guy like that, with pressure from the police, would rather settle it and pay up instead of potentially face a charge and/or trial.

This courtyard thing grabbed my attention...is this a common courtyard, or yours only? If it is yours only and it is fenced in...I'd flip if I found some random drunk on my back deck.

Three sides of it are bordered by a fence/house/garage while the fourth side that faces the side street is a split rail fence with a wide walking/cemented sidewalk area that leads to the back of the house. It isn't hard to imagine some drunks seeing an area with an open sidewalk leading to a courtyard area with chairs and a table and plopping down for a late night rest.

I think he did it as well. I don't believe his failure to remember story. Can you turn it into your insurance provider? I mean I am not sure you can prove he did it, but it has his name written all over it.

I am quite sure he doesn't remember. The guy wouldn't have approached me to ask if I found a wallet and then volunteered his entire story about being arrested for public intox 20 yards away, being inebriated, having no recollection, etc. if he knew he had caused damage to the exact car I was looking at.
 
That's not true. There are plenty of cases built on circumstantial evidence, especially in small crimes, where some police pressure can get the culprit to cop to it or plea down and accept guilt. A guy like that, with pressure from the police, would rather settle it and pay up instead of potentially face a charge and/or trial.

I have never lived in a city where the cops cared about random vandalism. Now, if some punk kids hit every car on the street, yeah they will nab the bastards. Maybe if you are buddies with the mayor or prosecutor...Maybe you live in a really small, rich town. "STAY OUT OF MALIBU, LEBOWSKI!"

Three sides of it are bordered by a fence/house/garage while the fourth side that faces the side street is a split rail fence with a wide walking/cemented sidewalk area that leads to the back of the house. It isn't hard to imagine some drunks seeing an area with an open sidewalk leading to a courtyard area with chairs and a table and plopping down for a late night rest.

This kind of shit might get someone shot around here. Are you sure you live in Texas?
 
I’d invest in a security camera for the driveway and exterior/interior of your place. They’re next to nothing cost wise. You could probably just add cameras to the system you have in your bedroom.
He could just relocate some of the cameras he has in his bedroom and the shower that is used exclusively by his female guests.
 
Chances of them printing your car for vandalism is slim. Chances they could get a good print off a car door or window? Even slimmer. Chances of doing it after 2-3 days? Not going to happen. I like Herdman's idea. It's the best chance you have of recouping your loss.
 
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Call your insurance company and cut the guy a break. Guy just went through a divorce and is probably paying out the ass for that already. Is it worth costing the guy his job for $1500.00 when the deductible is probably 1/3 of that? Sounds like he got fvcked up and just made a mistake, which I’m certain we’ve all done when drunk. In the end you’re out a few hundred dollars which you can easily afford. He could land in jail, lose his job, still owe the alimony and possibly child support and all men know the hell you pay when that falls behind. Let it go, you’ll be a better person for it.
 
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Raoul is correct, at least about the Louisville area. I had 3 car break ins while living there, called the police each time, they never even bothered writing anything down even though I gave them very detailed descriptions of items stolen, including info that would have made them very easy to identify if pawned.

Police don't have time for that stuff until it reaches epidemic levels in a given area and then only if enough people are complaining to the right people.
 
Call your insurance company and cut the guy a break. Guy just went through a divorce and is probably paying out the ass for that already. Is it worth costing the guy his job for $1500.00 when the deductible is probably 1/3 of that? Sounds like he got fvcked up and just made a mistake, which I’m certain we’ve all done when drunk. In the end you’re out a few hundred dollars which you can easily afford. He could land in jail, lose his job, still owe the alimony and possibly child support and all men know the hell you pay when that falls behind. Let it go, you’ll be a better person for it.

I've cut the guy a break by not pursuing charges (or at least not pushing the police to investigate the incident) against him assuming he pays for most of the damage that he caused.

My deductible on each car is $2000. If I changed that to $500 on each, at least the last time I checked, my premium for all three would go from about $2400 every six months to $5100 every six months.

Regardless of $500 or $2000 I'd have to pay for this deductible, I shouldn't have to eat that (and the subsequent increase in my rates) for some guy vandalizing my property. And yes, he could land in jail, lose his job, etc. if he doesn't do the right thing. He did the wrong thing once, and instead of going directly to jail, he is getting the opportunity to right that wrong.

Today, I had to drive my car to to the gas station down the street to put air in the tire he cut so I could drive it to Discount Tire to see if they could patch it. However, when I went to put air in the tire, the unlocked door behind me closed. No big deal, right? Wrong. The keys were in the car and the unlocked door is broken because of him, so I couldn't get back in my car. My phone was also in the car. So I had to use an employee's phone at the gas station to call AAA, wait more than an hour for them to come open my car, then tip the guy out of my own pocket (all things I wouldn't have had to spend time/money doing if not for this guy). Then, I drove to Discount Tire where my wait was about three hours. The tire couldn't be patched. My option? Pay $470 for the one tire they had in stock for the back of my car or pay $190 and wait 3-5 days for it to arrive. So now I have a spare on it and won't be driving it until my tire gets in.

Besides the time calling the police, filling out the online report, the approximate 5 hours at the gas station/Discount Tire today, the phone call I had to take from the officer in the middle of a concert tonight, the hour round trip I will have to drive to the dealership, and the numerous hours I will have to wait for my car to get fixed at the dealership, you want me to continue cutting this guy a break and not have him pay for the damage he caused? Fvck that. When all is said and done, I will easily exceed ten hours of my time dealing with it not to mention the gas expense, pocket money I am out of, etc.

I usually go to the gym 2-3 times a day. Today, I didn't get to do any of that because I had to spend more than five hours dealing with his shit. Since I couldn't drive the car he damaged, I was stuck driving one of my newer cars, and I don't like driving those when I am drenched with sweat after a workout. His actions have impacted me far more than time and money.

Tonight, the officer told me that the neighbor behind my house called Monday morning at 2:13 am to report that a guy was sleeping on the sidewalk right next to my driveway. I explained my meeting the kid today. The officer said he was going to call him back, let him know that he had no solid evidence against him for the damage to my car, but tell him that if we settled it he wouldn't investigate it further.

I am going to be out of probably $200 for the tire, $300 for the handle, $100 for the wiper, $300 for the glass cover, $300+ for the tire monitor censor. That doesn't include the excessive amount of time spent on it, the gas, the other inconveniences, etc. I could have easily bought the tire for $470 today, been able to drive the car whenever I wanted, not have to spend time going back to Discount Tire when it arrives, and stuck him with the extra $300 cost for the more expensive tire. I will have to get estimates on the repairs tomorrow, so should I drive a spare at 60 mph on a 70 mph highway because of him? Should I have my car towed and use my AAA tow against my account limit because of him? Again, this is far more than just the cost to fix the items. There is substantially more time and money I have to spend because of him.

The kid claims to have a really good job that he doesn't want to jeopardize, is in a position where they provide him with a corporate card, and has enough money to come spend a weekend eating out and drinking with friends. So if he has to pay me $200/month for the next seven months, then too bad. I shouldn't have to be out a single penny for the damage he caused, and frankly, he is lucky I don't charge his ass for all of the time I have to spend dealing with it.

Tonight, after the officer talked to him, the kid sent me this message:

"Good evening,

Apologies it's so late, I just wanted to let you know I spoke with officer XXXX and I wanted to make sure you had my information before I reach out tomorrow.


I'd like to give you a call at the best time for you, so we can touch base about your car and how I can pay for the damage as soon as possible.

Thank you so much for your grace and giving me the opportunity to make it right before pressing charges, I'm incredibly grateful!

Thank you."

Before he sent that text, the officer and I both agreed that he seemed like a decent guy. I made it a point to let the officer know I didn't want to screw the guy out of his job, get him in more trouble, etc., but that I also shouldn't have to pay $1500 plus all of the time spent due to his actions.
 
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If the guy is willing to pay for it it’s a win for you both. My only point here was not causing the guy to lose his job which brings in a ton of other issues for him.
 
"Good evening,

Apologies it's so late, I just wanted to let you know I spoke with officer XXXX and I wanted to make sure you had my information before I reach out tomorrow.


I'd like to give you a call at the best time for you, so we can touch base about your car and how I can pay for the damage as soon as possible.

Thank you so much for your grace and giving me the opportunity to make it right before pressing charges, I'm incredibly grateful!

Thank you."

Is he also going to buy your TV? :D

Seriously, you may get luck on this one.

And BTW, order your tires from Tire Rack and have them sent to a local shop to install. They are usually the best and quickest option for off-sizes and super high performance tires.
 
Never, ever, ever, never go to NTB or Firestone. I hate those places. A simple brake pad replacement turns into a $250 job. Then there’s the list of “suggested repairs,” they hit you with. I hate those places.

I remember back in the day I’d go to Autozone and buy brake pads for $20 and then go to some crappy tire discount place on the west side of Huntington and they’d put them on for $20. If rotors needed turned then another $10. Saved a fortune. They did it in the parking lot. Lol
 
Is he also going to buy your TV? :D

Seriously, you may get luck on this one.

And BTW, order your tires from Tire Rack and have them sent to a local shop to install. They are usually the best and quickest option for off-sizes and super high performance tires.

Tire Rack doesn’t match prices like Discount Tire does. Tire Rack had only two tires available in size 315/35/20 I use on my rears. Both were in the $400s, while I’m out the door for $224 at Discount Tire. I also don’t have to deal with coordinating having a tire shipped to a third party, coordinating a time they can put it on, etc.

Discount Tire - at least this local one - has been great for me. They’ve patched two tires for free for me (would have been a third yesterday) even though I didn’t buy the tires from them. All they ask in return is that I give them the opportunity to price match wherever I plan on going to buy my next tire. The guys at this store are highly trained in customer service. They, even if unsafe, run in the parking lot to and from all of the cars they transport in and out of the bays. Does it save more than 30 seconds? No. But it gives the impression to customers that they are working as hard as possible to get them out of the shop quickly. They also, 100% of the time, grab and open every door for customers.

You can tell they are highly trained in basic customer service, and I can appreciate that.
 
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Spent four hours going to/from and waiting at the dealership today. The estimate is $1388 (plus $224 for the tire). And I am supposed to eat that to give the guy a break? No thanks. And I still have to go back to get my tire put on when it comes in (another hour), and then go back to the dealership for them to do all of the work since they didn't have all of the parts in stock (another 5 hours including driving to/from).

I still am mad at myself that I didn't sue the shit out of the lady whose dog bit me for my time and cost of having to go to the store to buy wound cleaning shit, the discomfort of it for a week, them taking two weeks to come up with the papers, etc.

I met a former attorney for the city a few weeks ago. She told me that a simple demand letter to the city from an attorney would have easily yielded me a few thousand dollars. She said that since animal control didn't push the dog owners for the papers in a reasonable amount of time considering the bite, the city would have simply cut a check for a few thousand dollars instead of facing any litigation.

She said it was shocking how frequent and how large settlements were that she had to send out simply because the city didn't want to fight litigation and/or hire more attorneys. She said the city pays very high salaries for their employees (head of animal control makes over $90,000, the guys who climb power lines make around $78,000) in a city with a decent cost of living and they'd rather pay big settlements than have to hire more employees or fire and then hire employees.
 
Tire Rack doesn’t match prices like Discount Tire does. Tire Rack had only two tires available in size 315/35/20 I use on my rears. Both were in the $400s, while I’m out the door for $224 at Discount Tire. I also don’t have to deal with coordinating having a tire shipped to a third party, coordinating a time they can put it on, etc.

Discount Tire - at least this local one - has been great for me. They’ve patched two tires for free for me (would have been a third yesterday) even though I didn’t buy the tires from them. All they ask in return is that I give them the opportunity to price match wherever I plan on going to buy my next tire. The guys at this store are highly trained in customer service. They, even if unsafe, run in the parking lot to and from all of the cars they transport in and out of the bays. Does it save more than 30 seconds? No. But it gives the impression to customers that they are working as hard as possible to get them out of the shop quickly. They also, 100% of the time, grab and open every door for customers.

You can tell they are highly trained in basic customer service, and I can appreciate that.

Was it the same tire as Tire Rack had? Because that is a hell of a difference.

I've had good luck with Tire Rack for weird sizes. Plus the warehouse is in South Bend, so my tires get here the next day, sent right to the shop I have mount them.


Is this the BMW? That's a stupid size for a non-M SUV. 35 ratio, Jesus.
 
I change my mind. Just like illegal immigration you should let him off free and just realize that your property is everyone's free will to do what they want to with it. You should just eat it and hell let him drive the car. Better yet, I would leave it unlocked and just let whoever climbs in do what they want.
 
I change my mind. Just like illegal immigration you should let him off free and just realize that your property is everyone's free will to do what they want to with it. You should just eat it and hell let him drive the car. Better yet, I would leave it unlocked and just let whoever climbs in do what they want.

You simply aren't bright enough to know what decriminalizing crossers means. It is entirely different from "open borders."

Was it the same tire as Tire Rack had? Because that is a hell of a difference.

Is this the BMW? That's a stupid size for a non-M SUV. 35 ratio, Jesus.

Different tires. I don't take my cars to the drag strip or drive them off-road, so I will take a $200 tire with a 40,000 mile rating instead of a $470 tire with 50,000 miles.

Yeah, the rears are big tires, but it's a pretty strong engine. It's the more expensive 50 engine (which was a waste of money for me) which is a twin-turbo, 4.4 L, V-8.
 
So you "decriminalizing" is suddenly going to push these thousands upon thousands of people to go through a valid immigration process? Get real
 
So you "decriminalizing" is suddenly going to push these thousands upon thousands of people to go through a valid immigration process? Get real

This just proves that you are absolutely clueless on what you're talking about.

The push for decriminalization has nothing to do with what you just said. This is the problem with you deplorables. You don't even understand the issues yet you jump on whatever side your deplorable leader takes with no education on the subject. That's why he loves the poorly educated.

Do yourself a favor - actually read what decriminalization is and isn't. Actually read about how it has nothing to do with providing open borders. Actually read why there is a growing movement for it.

The thing is that you and I probably don't even disagree on this particular part of immigration. But that can't even be discussed because you are so clueless on what is actually being discussed, and you don't even understand the reasons why there is support for it.
 
This just proves that you are absolutely clueless on what you're talking about.

The push for decriminalization has nothing to do with what you just said. This is the problem with you deplorables. You don't even understand the issues yet you jump on whatever side your deplorable leader takes with no education on the subject. That's why he loves the poorly educated.

Do yourself a favor - actually read what decriminalization is and isn't. Actually read about how it has nothing to do with providing open borders. Actually read why there is a growing movement for it.

The thing is that you and I probably don't even disagree on this particular part of immigration. But that can't even be discussed because you are so clueless on what is actually being discussed, and you don't even understand the reasons why there is support for it.
Just admit it, you are for open borders and don't believe in the sovereignty of the USA. But, are probably like most liberals, anywhere but in my back yard.
 
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What's your suggestion? Firing squad?

Ultimately, the best solution is for the countries where these folks come from to solve it and have better economic conditions. But, realistically that is not going to happen.

Frankly, I would fine the beejevus out of corporations who take these folks in for cheap labor and I would jail CEO's who willingly participate in it. That is the first step.
 
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