Big 12 will NOT expand. No school received enough votes.
- Thread starter MU ATO
- Start date
But....but.....what about Landon's industry sources!?!?!?
This could be the best possible news for Marshall University Athletics. Now they'll be no inclusion or being left out. It's time to make hay with C-USA. It is the home we have, the house we're building, and the legend we can help develop. There is extensive investment being made at many schools in both upgrading facilities and investing in increasing the skill-set of athletes. The schools are large, the desitnations aren't bad, and the task of staying on our pace is challenging enough. There is no reason, IMHO, that C-USA can not be the best G5 conference in America. We'd better stay on pace or we'll be in the bottom of this developing conference.
At this point, my greatest hope is that Marshall becomes the poster child for wasteful athletic spending: we've got a deluxe weight room, state of the art IPF, academic resource center....and this Saturday we're going to have a field goal kicking shootout with g-dd-mn UNC-Charlotte.
I wonder if the schools in FCS and the Sun Belt think they are gaining ground on CUSA by building stuff...
for every $1 any team in this conference spends on upgrades ECU and UCF spend $20. For every $20 they spend WVU spends $100. For every $100 WVU spends Texas and Alabama spend $1,000...
there is no scenario where the conferences above us suddenly stop trying and we magically become the legendary G5 juggernaut conference. The AAC and MW are so far ahead of CUSA we re closer to FCS than we are to them...
for every $1 any team in this conference spends on upgrades ECU and UCF spend $20. For every $20 they spend WVU spends $100. For every $100 WVU spends Texas and Alabama spend $1,000...
there is no scenario where the conferences above us suddenly stop trying and we magically become the legendary G5 juggernaut conference. The AAC and MW are so far ahead of CUSA we re closer to FCS than we are to them...
not us. We have a solid fanbase that will show up regardless of outlying factors. However, schools like UNCC, ODU, UTSA and the like will have a bunch of nice empty overgrown facilities similar to previous Olympic host cities...
This isn't nearly true. ODU has been sold out for several years, I think ever since they restarted football. And they just announced a brand new stadium project. Charlotte is a small stadium, but they've done well in attendance according to their own reports.
they have "sold out" (20k) every home game since 2009. tickets sold does not equal butts in seats...
and Charlotte....bwahahahaha
(this pic from a news article from Niner Times "Attendance Causing Concerns")
more people watched my 6 year old play soccer Saturday...
The Big 12 not expanding is really the best possible outcome for MU.
We were not going to the AAC had they lost a team or two. Just wasn't happening.
The only thing that would have happened is our hot garbage pile of a conference would have gotten worse because one of the few decent programs still left bolted for the AAC.
We were not going to the AAC had they lost a team or two. Just wasn't happening.
The only thing that would have happened is our hot garbage pile of a conference would have gotten worse because one of the few decent programs still left bolted for the AAC.
they have "sold out" (20k) every home game since 2009. tickets sold does not equal butts in seats...
and Charlotte....bwahahahaha
(this pic from a news article from Niner Times "Attendance Causing Concerns")
more people watched my 6 year old play soccer Saturday...
Thank you for posting these. I get so sick of hearing how ODU is God's gift to CUSA. When they start playing for the league title and winning bowl games, then I'll believe they matter to this league.
A 20K stadium is nothing to brag about in terms of sellouts. Texas high schools do that.
That's just crazy to me that, in a city almost a whole year removed from a Super Bowl appearance, that C-USA football isn't burning up the turnstyles. Upside!
Not sure why you guys hate ODU so much, I have not seen their fans brag much after they got their reality check a few years ago. They also have a pretty solid forward thinking athletic department and a nice core group of fans who support their sports and is actually growing. They draw better than us in basketball and if they had a bigger stadium they would be near us in football.
BTW, that first photo is from their version of the Green White game, so compare that to what we draw. The second photo is from their win over Georgia State, a game that was over at halftime, which like at Marshall, many of their fans wind up tailgating in the parking lot at half and don't come back.
BTW, that first photo is from their version of the Green White game, so compare that to what we draw. The second photo is from their win over Georgia State, a game that was over at halftime, which like at Marshall, many of their fans wind up tailgating in the parking lot at half and don't come back.
Big 2, Little 8: Just to review, the empty suits at ESPN and Fox were actually dumb enough to sign a contract where if that woeful league expanded it would get proportionally more money. The league, which is to say Texas and Oklahoma, then conducted a reverse auction. Which schools wanted out of the Exit Fee Conference (AKA THE AMERICAN!!!!!!!! ) so badly they would take none of that money, leaving it for the others to split. Then the Big 2 played that off against the networks. The networks blinked and paid the league not to expand.
From this we learn the actual value of schools like Cincinnati or Houston or UConn. These are actually so UNpopular that ESPN would rather pay cash to NOT have their games to show. Think of that the next time somebody tells you the idiocy that "Cincinnati = all of Ohio". Nope.
AAC: Key thing to remember is that this THE AMERICAN!!!!!!! is that pretty much everybody wants the f*** out of it. It is East Germany c. 1985. Every team in it wants to be out of it. Learn from that.
CUSA: Pretty much this means that all of the conferences are going to stay the same until the next "great realignment". This is our league. Live with it.
Wasteful spending: Well, first I would like to see the actual link where the AAC is spending $20 for every one we spend and the Little 8 $100. Actually, USA Today has the figures and you are off by about as far off as you can be. Anyway, I agree that most all of this "potential" ho-ha about big city colleges added to CUSA is silly. No one much cares about ODU or UNCC or UTwherever or directional Floridas, and no one is ever likely to. But, one, I can say the same thing about the AAC. Even more so. Same for the MAC. Even more so than the AAC. Which is way Marshall is so unique and wonderful. We have a fan base, win or lose, rain or shine, thick or thin.
Future: Not expanding means that when the TV deals all expire, the Big 2 can play the Little 8 for an even more uneven deal against moving up to one of the four major conferences, in which instance not all of the Little 8 will be taken in by the Power 4. Fact is, IMHO, the Big 2 are learning that the best recruits want to test themselves in the legitimate conferences and that is way the Big 2 are not winning like they should. The AAC and the MAC 's grandfathered TV deals run out eventually, and we see what ESPN thinks about the BEST of the AAC, which is not much. We are all in the same boat when the TV deals get even.
Reality: All of this poor mouthing of CUSA needs to end. Fact is, in a few years, the TV money will all be even again, and, fact is, win every game in CUSA = access bowl, same as THE AMERICAN!!!!! . Same as the MAC, or even probably the SBC. Lose one game, play in Boca. As long as that is the system, that is the reality. All of the ho-ha about the AAC is belied by the truth that ESPN and Fox just PAID money to NOT have its BEST two members. Paid NOT to. Fact is, a year will come when a CUSA member gets it all right and plays in the access bowl. Realtiy.
From this we learn the actual value of schools like Cincinnati or Houston or UConn. These are actually so UNpopular that ESPN would rather pay cash to NOT have their games to show. Think of that the next time somebody tells you the idiocy that "Cincinnati = all of Ohio". Nope.
AAC: Key thing to remember is that this THE AMERICAN!!!!!!! is that pretty much everybody wants the f*** out of it. It is East Germany c. 1985. Every team in it wants to be out of it. Learn from that.
CUSA: Pretty much this means that all of the conferences are going to stay the same until the next "great realignment". This is our league. Live with it.
Wasteful spending: Well, first I would like to see the actual link where the AAC is spending $20 for every one we spend and the Little 8 $100. Actually, USA Today has the figures and you are off by about as far off as you can be. Anyway, I agree that most all of this "potential" ho-ha about big city colleges added to CUSA is silly. No one much cares about ODU or UNCC or UTwherever or directional Floridas, and no one is ever likely to. But, one, I can say the same thing about the AAC. Even more so. Same for the MAC. Even more so than the AAC. Which is way Marshall is so unique and wonderful. We have a fan base, win or lose, rain or shine, thick or thin.
Future: Not expanding means that when the TV deals all expire, the Big 2 can play the Little 8 for an even more uneven deal against moving up to one of the four major conferences, in which instance not all of the Little 8 will be taken in by the Power 4. Fact is, IMHO, the Big 2 are learning that the best recruits want to test themselves in the legitimate conferences and that is way the Big 2 are not winning like they should. The AAC and the MAC 's grandfathered TV deals run out eventually, and we see what ESPN thinks about the BEST of the AAC, which is not much. We are all in the same boat when the TV deals get even.
Reality: All of this poor mouthing of CUSA needs to end. Fact is, in a few years, the TV money will all be even again, and, fact is, win every game in CUSA = access bowl, same as THE AMERICAN!!!!! . Same as the MAC, or even probably the SBC. Lose one game, play in Boca. As long as that is the system, that is the reality. All of the ho-ha about the AAC is belied by the truth that ESPN and Fox just PAID money to NOT have its BEST two members. Paid NOT to. Fact is, a year will come when a CUSA member gets it all right and plays in the access bowl. Realtiy.
If that was a reference to my comment, yes I do realize that (I even said "if they had a bigger stadium"). My point was if I posted crowd shots of the Green White game or pics after halftime of Morgan State or Rhode Island, I could spin it that our attendance numbers, don't match how many actually show up to the game.
In ODU's case, even with a stadium half our size, they only drew 7k less than us, and that was because they couldn't fit more in that little stadium. I'm not such a homer to not understand they do sell out and have a demand for more seats (whether you believe it or not). I saw the support up there and I bet with a 30k stadium they would draw in the 25-27k range, which is right in our ball park and not bad given how mediocre they have been.
Charlotte's fans disappeared after the novelty wore off and they realized that D1 is tougher than playing a schedule of D2, non-scholarship 1-AA and HBCU teams. So, I get the criticism of their inclusion. But, ODU's fans have stuck around and their team is at least semi competitive and dare I say probably better than our train wreck of a team this year.
Again, I get my opinion may not be popular here, but at least I am being reasonable about the reality of where our programs stack up.
Sam the AAC has two teams this season that would get the AB with a loss (probably 2) over an unbeaten CUSA team. Boise almost did it to us in 2014. With 1 game left in the regular season they were ahead of us with 2 losses to our none. I think we had a shot at passing them had we won out, but there is no "win every CUSA game go to the AB" guarantee. They didn't even have one of their signature Boise P5 wins either. Just a beat down from Ole Miss and a loss to Air Force...
It doesn't really matter with the hypotheticals. The last time a team from CUSA went undefeated was Tulane in 1998. And there is little to no chance a 1 loss CUSA team gets an AB ever. Like some have said, be happy with our conference. But also be happy playing for a shot at the MAC or Sun Belt in an also bowl at the end of the season...
It doesn't really matter with the hypotheticals. The last time a team from CUSA went undefeated was Tulane in 1998. And there is little to no chance a 1 loss CUSA team gets an AB ever. Like some have said, be happy with our conference. But also be happy playing for a shot at the MAC or Sun Belt in an also bowl at the end of the season...
I think this is good news for Marshall and the rest of C-USA, plus other G-5 schools. I hope it will strengthen and solidify the alliance, not to mention teach them a lesson. It will also give the new schools in our conference an opportunity to grow their programs without the worry of being raided.
Furthermore, I think the Big 12, Big 2-Little 8, whatever damaged its reputation by having these applicant schools come in to parade their dog-and-pony shows before their arrogant asses. Not only among the expectant lobbyists, but their P-5 brethren as well -- they come off as desperate fools among their peers! It also leaves WVU out there hanging by a thread (closest conference game Ames, Iowa, 800 miles away).
How would you feel if you were the chancellor/president of Cincinnati, Houston, UConn, BYU, (I won't even glorify UCF, ECU or Memphis) or any of the other institutions that were turned down. I see that some female spin doctor is already trying to market the debacle as "great exposure"
Hopefully, this will bring some much-need rest from the turmoil that has rocked the college football scene. If anything, the playoff needs to be expanded to accommodate two G-5 teams. I say a bid (five) for every P-5 conference playoff champion, a wild card (best P-5 left out) and two slots for the G-5.
Off course, I'm sure the whole situation will eventually rear its ugly head again. And the same jilted ones will eagerly step forth to prostitute themselves for money and perceived grandeur. What say ye?
Furthermore, I think the Big 12, Big 2-Little 8, whatever damaged its reputation by having these applicant schools come in to parade their dog-and-pony shows before their arrogant asses. Not only among the expectant lobbyists, but their P-5 brethren as well -- they come off as desperate fools among their peers! It also leaves WVU out there hanging by a thread (closest conference game Ames, Iowa, 800 miles away).
How would you feel if you were the chancellor/president of Cincinnati, Houston, UConn, BYU, (I won't even glorify UCF, ECU or Memphis) or any of the other institutions that were turned down. I see that some female spin doctor is already trying to market the debacle as "great exposure"
Hopefully, this will bring some much-need rest from the turmoil that has rocked the college football scene. If anything, the playoff needs to be expanded to accommodate two G-5 teams. I say a bid (five) for every P-5 conference playoff champion, a wild card (best P-5 left out) and two slots for the G-5.
Off course, I'm sure the whole situation will eventually rear its ugly head again. And the same jilted ones will eagerly step forth to prostitute themselves for money and perceived grandeur. What say ye?
I remember people talking about ODU in 2014 when we went there and they striped the stadium for us. Let's see if they can still stripe it now.
"Upside" sells tickets, reality is a different bird. Its great to say "we're going to build this and everyone's going to go nuts for it," but then 4-5 years later, the new car smell is worn off, and all you've got is a series of 5-7 seasons and a fanbase that realizes that no, its not that easy after all, and goes back to not caring.
"Upside" sells tickets, reality is a different bird. Its great to say "we're going to build this and everyone's going to go nuts for it," but then 4-5 years later, the new car smell is worn off, and all you've got is a series of 5-7 seasons and a fanbase that realizes that no, its not that easy after all, and goes back to not caring.
UNCC Charlotte has a nice but small new stadium and have solid attendance, ODU sells out every game, and UTSA plays in a great facility, didn't have to pay a dime for it, and have good attendance levels for CUSA. I don't see your point.
Yet their average attendance is only about 7K less, and would be close to ours if their stadium were about 30K instead of about 21K.
The Big-12 was being severely attacked on Mike & Mike this morning for leading on the AAC schools and having them spend large amounts of money to advertise their programs and then not voting to expand at all. Not expanding is going to be a public relations disaster for the conference and it is the beginning of the end of the Big-12.
Their still selling out and have a very strong fan base so I don't see your point.
my bad... you guys are right. those are all photoshopped pics. the riots in Charlotte were actually over a sold out football game at UNCC... true story
#potential
#potential
It's obvious you haven't been up there or know anyone who has. They fill that place every home game for awhile now (50 in a row), except for the last minute game day move with UMass, (even then I was told they probably had 18k showed up) the sellouts were full houses.
I can't believe I have to defend ODU, but some of you sound like the way the guys on the old MAC board would talk about us. Hell, they are 4-2 and 2-0 in CUSA and we are having trouble beating Florida Atlantic and lost to freaking North Texas, and yet some of our fans are being patronizing.
In further reference to what I wrote above. I wouldn't be surprised to see Texas and Oklahoma now morph towards the Pac 10 or how many it now is. This may trigger the other biggies to expand to 14-16 teams that make more regional sense. If that happens, I could see lesser schools like Iowa State, TCU and WVU without a seat at the table.
That Texas has that tremendous athletic budget and can't field any better teams than it does is a mismanaged farce.Too many big donor egos involved I guess Makes me feel like we are getting a lot of bangs for the bucks with our paltry $29M at Marshall!
That Texas has that tremendous athletic budget and can't field any better teams than it does is a mismanaged farce.Too many big donor egos involved I guess Makes me feel like we are getting a lot of bangs for the bucks with our paltry $29M at Marshall!
As I mentioned, the first ODU pic was from their intra-squad game and second was probably second half of the Georgia State game when they were up three tds. I actually know folks who are ODU season ticket holders and they have no reason to lie about their attendance numbers. They were the ones who told me the UMASS game was not a full house for the first time ever and have one hell of a Cajun style tailgate. Now Charlotte, I wouldn't doubt the wheels came off there. I only have anecdotal evidence, but one of the people I work with has a daughter who goes there and told me she said students don't go to games anymore.
Yep, Texas has too many big money donors trying to tell the coaches how to do their jobs while also threatening to get everyone fired if they don't do what the donors want. They have all the resources in the world, but the atmosphere is horrible for the coaches and players.
There is a point of diminishing returns, and there are 20 or 30 schools that are at it. Since you cannot (legally) pay the players, and the number of coaches are limited, and last year's super genius coach is this year's idiot, what would the Texas AD do if he suddenly found another $5M? Buy what exactly? Do what exactly?
Put another way, you think Nick Saban is setting around saying "boy, if we could just afford a ______ then, boy, would it be on". Or, in reverse, do you think Mark Stoops says that either?
The answer is no in both cases. Once you have "everything" you have "everything". There is nothing left to buy, build, or have.
And that is the end game for the Big 2, Little 8. The Big 2's plan was simple. Engineer a cupcake conference they could settle between themselves, have this unique and unequal "third tier" rights thing and get all of this great MONEY.
And?
Well, and the Big 2 forgot something. Recruiting. Recruting at the top, top, top level is more selecting. And the Big 2 are offering cakewalks with rediculious private Texas colleges and an assortment of dusty cow towns in backwater farm states, with the added bonus of having to be around the drunken hicks and New Jersites every other year. Meanwhile the Greatest Conference is offering the glory that is the SEC. And recruiting the crap out of them. As is the ACC, and even the Big 10 and Pac 12. Because elite people want to test themselves against elite people. They want to see if they really are the best of their generation. And you don' t find that out in Ames, or Stillwater, or Lawrence. Or Morganhole.
Which is why, when the TV deals expire, the Big 2 will join what will become the Power 4, and the Little 8 will look for cover. Not all will find one.
No one hates ODU. Just seems like some of our fans love them more than MU. Touting how they and Charlotte have so much potential and will pull this league up to elite G5 status. BS! Neither have done crap in football and Charlotte should never have entered D1 football. Hell, if we only had a 21K seat stadium we'd have sold it out for the last 20 years or so; especially in an area as large as the Tidewater area is.
They are only building a 22K stadium that is gonna cost a fortune.............22K, sounds very sunbeltish. I know some others have small stadiums too but to spend that much money on just 22k is crazy and short sighted.
Big 2, Little 8: ESPN has obtained a memo (so it says) where the Big 2 instructed the Little 8 to lie and say that their decisions were "unanimous" when they were not. From this we learn 2 things. First, is that obviously ESPN had this memo from jump street. The fact that ESPN published it shows that Disney resents being used for extra $$. Payback are hell. Enjoy. Second, is that in addition to being a religious bigot, con artist, and being quoted as saying "my concern is not the health of people in other parts of WV, it is only the health of the WVU medical corporation", "Dr." Gordon Gee is a paid liar.
ODU, etc. : I am sick to death of all of this potential BS out of some of our fanbase, mainly ones that have had to move away due to 80 years of One Party Government, about all of this "potential" out of this or that big (or bigish) city school. Yeah, if everybody in the Tidewater rooted for ODU, then it woudl be grand. Then again if everybody in New York rooted for NYU, that would be yet more grand.
College sports just do not work that way. In a big city, especially in the growing parts of the country, people will follow a mix of the school they went to (or wish they had), the default local big time programs (usually the one(s) named for the state), the school "back home", or Notre Dame. Just because ODU (UT anywhere, UNCC, UAB, directional Floridas, etc.) are IN town does not imply that anyone in the town gives a flying f***, or ever will. Further, obviously, the most ardent supporters of a school went to the school. And in big states, kids have lots of choices. Kids that care about sports self-select to big time sports schools. Kids that don't look elsewhere. And kids that do not care about sports grow up to be alumni that do not care about sports. And that is why there is no potential in any of our "potential" schools.
ODU, etc. : I am sick to death of all of this potential BS out of some of our fanbase, mainly ones that have had to move away due to 80 years of One Party Government, about all of this "potential" out of this or that big (or bigish) city school. Yeah, if everybody in the Tidewater rooted for ODU, then it woudl be grand. Then again if everybody in New York rooted for NYU, that would be yet more grand.
College sports just do not work that way. In a big city, especially in the growing parts of the country, people will follow a mix of the school they went to (or wish they had), the default local big time programs (usually the one(s) named for the state), the school "back home", or Notre Dame. Just because ODU (UT anywhere, UNCC, UAB, directional Floridas, etc.) are IN town does not imply that anyone in the town gives a flying f***, or ever will. Further, obviously, the most ardent supporters of a school went to the school. And in big states, kids have lots of choices. Kids that care about sports self-select to big time sports schools. Kids that don't look elsewhere. And kids that do not care about sports grow up to be alumni that do not care about sports. And that is why there is no potential in any of our "potential" schools.
Most pictures of their games that I've found show gaps in the bleachers where you can see them, which is almost nowhere, since none of their pictures show their awesome, raucous sellout crowds. And somebody needs to tell StubHub that there's a waiting list to get into the stadium, because those aren't exactly standing-room-only prices.
Reminds me a lot of the days when ECU was trying to get into the Big East and averaged 55k a game, but then you'd go to their athletics page and all the pictures are cropped at field level.
I don't see anyone bragging on either ODU or Charlotte, just being honest about their condition. If you've ever been to ODU and don't admit its a pretty impressive urban school, you're working hard not to give the school the credit it deserves.
We need strong schools in our conference. And next to MU, we need to support them all we can. I'm not sure about the pics shown, but I've watched a lot of C-USA games on TV and those aren't the kind of pics I've seen on TV. Was also at the first ODU/MU game, which was a fantastic atmosphere.Also attended a MU/UNCC basketball game in Charlotte and it was a very good experience.
USM is a great place. The atmosphere and stadium, albiet not very well attended, at FAU is darn good too. Game day at UTEP is pretty exciting too. And although I've not been to a game at UTSA, I've been to San Antonio several times and there aren't too many better places to visit in the US. Flower Mound, Denton and the northern part of Dallas are pretty neat too. If you've never visited Birmingham, you should; much to be learned there if you're interested. Murfreesboro isn't beside Nashville, but it's close. Plus it has enough of its own value to warrant a visit; and their stadium is well situated on campus and easily accessable. Same goes for WKU, Bowling Green won't bowl you over, but it's only 50 minutes or so to Nashville, or back to Louisville. WKU students are very proud, committed and supportive of their university; and have been for decades (this school is very much like Marshall when it comes to competing with larger named universities in the state and finding a niche for itself.)
Take all the pics you want that support your point of view, but don't count out the growth and commitment athletically at the schools in C-USA. If you blink, we'll find us behind a few of them quickly.
We need strong schools in our conference. And next to MU, we need to support them all we can. I'm not sure about the pics shown, but I've watched a lot of C-USA games on TV and those aren't the kind of pics I've seen on TV. Was also at the first ODU/MU game, which was a fantastic atmosphere.Also attended a MU/UNCC basketball game in Charlotte and it was a very good experience.
USM is a great place. The atmosphere and stadium, albiet not very well attended, at FAU is darn good too. Game day at UTEP is pretty exciting too. And although I've not been to a game at UTSA, I've been to San Antonio several times and there aren't too many better places to visit in the US. Flower Mound, Denton and the northern part of Dallas are pretty neat too. If you've never visited Birmingham, you should; much to be learned there if you're interested. Murfreesboro isn't beside Nashville, but it's close. Plus it has enough of its own value to warrant a visit; and their stadium is well situated on campus and easily accessable. Same goes for WKU, Bowling Green won't bowl you over, but it's only 50 minutes or so to Nashville, or back to Louisville. WKU students are very proud, committed and supportive of their university; and have been for decades (this school is very much like Marshall when it comes to competing with larger named universities in the state and finding a niche for itself.)
Take all the pics you want that support your point of view, but don't count out the growth and commitment athletically at the schools in C-USA. If you blink, we'll find us behind a few of them quickly.
If I've said it once, I've said it a thousand times: if programs like Charlotte and ODU can sprinkle water on some shoulderpads and instantly be born bigger than us, we need to find some way to make Marshall famous other than football.
True story: Marshall spends about $14 million a year on athletics in direct institutional support. Do you have any idea how much national advertising that much money would buy?
True story: Marshall spends about $14 million a year on athletics in direct institutional support. Do you have any idea how much national advertising that much money would buy?
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