Birthright Citizenship is no more with Executive Order

[Raoul Duke MU]

Oh, and it was my first time on that site. Been googling articles on the 14th Admendment and reading different viewpoints. Something that obviously is not in your wheelhouse. TDS.

You are right, suddenly developing an interest in the Constitution because it is in the news is not in my wheelhouse, because I have had an interest in this stuff for thirty years.

And while there is no way to prove it one way or the other, I still say you stumbled upon a link on God knows what other bullshit website.

 

[Raoul Duke MU]

Correct. He's a "political scientist."

And you are an "economist"....although you never have anything intelligent to post on that subject, Buddy Ball Champion.

 

[Raoul Duke MU]

Closed minded libera....oh wait, you're not liberal, amirite?

Closed-minded to bullshit, yes. Closed-minded to "conservatives" that think an executive order can override the Constitution....which is about the most un-conservative position I can think of.

That's really how low we have reached: it is now "liberal" (and there is nothing wrong with being "liberal") to believe the Constitution is a greater authority than executive orders. It is now "conservative" (nothing wrong with actual conservatives) to think bedrock legal concepts and decisions that have not been legitimately questioned should be flushed down the toilet (I would not be shocked if Brown v BOE was next).

 

[Bankerreturns]

IMO it's not overriding the constitution, it's a move to force the clarification of a portion of an amendment of the constitution.

Since you are an expert on the 14th I'm sure you know who Senator Jacob Horward was as he was the author of the citizenship clause. Further, I'm sure you are aware of his speech in front of the Senate when the language was introduced. If not, I'll put it here for you.

http://memory.loc.gov/cgi-bin/ampage?collId=llcg&fileName=073/llcg073.db&recNum=11

You'll want to look at the middle column, half way down.

Now, given the context added by the author and explained before Congress, tell me how a strict constitutionalist would assume the intent of this part of the 14th Admendment clearly sets forth birthright citizenship? He expressly said it was not intended to include "foreigners, aliens, or members of the families of ambassadors or foreign ministries. The "subject to the jurisdiction of" statement was added to clarify this, and it did at the time of its writing.

 

[extragreen]

What Jacob Howard stated, however, was not included in the citizenship clause. There is precedent to deal with also in U S vs Kim Ark.

 

[Bankerreturns]

Kim Ark was the son of legal immigrants.

I suggest you read the link I posted and then continue on to the next page. It's really fascinating stuff and a good glimpse into society at the time and proof that California politicians have been dense for a long time. The California senator argues that they don't have to worry about Chinese immigration and their children because the men rarely bring their wives and just rotate in and out of the country, so they wouldn't have hardly any born here. The PA senator looks like a prophet talking about what would happen if hordes of immigrants flooded California.

 

[Raoul Duke MU]

Banker been reading more radical blogs

I am quite aware of every argument put forth by every far-right blog you can get your hands on.

Since you became an expert on the Fourteenth Admendment and did so in just the last couple of days, I am sure you continued reading past Howard, went on the read the debates in each state as the amendment was ratified, and then proceeded to read every court ruling on the Fourteenth....

....not really, you just kept on reading whacko blogs.

Now tell me, Mr. Strict Constitutionalist: Is the Mongol race a danger to the people of California? Are the cannibals of Borneo knocking on our door? Is the Caucasian the highest in society? Gangs of Gypsies still running across California? Because theses things were immediately noted after Mr. Howard's first little speech. "It's right there, in their intentions, the white race is the best!"

I think the truth in this entire matter, the motivations of politicians, and people (like you?) are clear in the third speaker that day, Mr. Conness: We no longer have the negro to kick around. We always have to have a boogeyman, don't we?

I'm sure you, or another of your ilk, will reply back that I am a "librul" playing the "race card". But the race card is right there, in your link, in the debate of the day. Seems some of the folks even back then knew what game was being played....indeed,being played by Mr. Howard, who immediately had his card trumped.

 

[raleighherdfan]

 

[Raoul Duke MU]

Actually, I would like an Animaniacs poster. But I might shoot someone if they put their toes on my keyboard.

Think about this: for 150 years only a few Congressmen, politicians, and judges have said they really believed the Fourteenth means something other than what it says. And I mean people on the fringe: even when bills have been introduced, no one else signs on nor is any action taken. You know why? 99% of people agree with the common reading of the 14th. 99% of racists even know that is what it means. You are out there dancing with wackos devils. And that's the sad thing about Trump: he has even normally smart and rational people like yourself believing a bunch of horseshit. BIGGLY SAD.

 

[redsfan5590]

So if the phrase "and subject to the jurisdiction thereof" does not include children of illegal immigrants, how can we charge that person if they were to commit a crime? Does the fact that they do not lie within our jurisdiction mean we have no right to prosecute them?

 

[raleighherdfan]

Actually, I would like an Animaniacs poster. But I might shoot someone if they put their toes on my keyboard.

Think about this: for 150 years only a few Congressmen, politicians, and judges have said they really believed the Fourteenth means something other than what it says. And I mean people on the fringe: even when bills have been introduced, no one else signs on nor is any action taken. You know why? 99% of people agree with the common reading of the 14th. 99% of racists even know that is what it means. You are out there dancing with wackos devils. And that's the sad thing about Trump: he has even normally smart and rational people like yourself believing a bunch of horseshit. BIGGLY SAD.

I actually have not commented specifically or openly agreed with this executive order. I’ll let the courts decide and watch the debate play out.

As for 99% of people’s opinions...ehhhh. The only truth is a majority of any “99%” have failed to really take the time to think about “what this really means”. They let their emotions take the lead. (Usually a mistake)

(Insert GK’s ideologically biased schtick here)

 

[Raoul Duke MU]

As for 99% of people’s opinions...ehhhh. The only truth is a majority of any “99%” have failed to really take the time to think about “what this really means”. They let their emotions take the lead. (Usually a mistake)

I should word that better. I mean 99% of attorneys, politicians, judges, academics, etc. People who actually give a shit about law and the courts. 99% of normal people probably think Dred Scott was a Jamaican band.

 

[Marine03]

Honestly I’m not opposed to it. The one thing I agree with Trump on is immigration although I don’t necessarily agree with how he’s gone about it.

 

[big_country90]

Honestly I’m not opposed to it. The one thing I agree with Trump on is immigration although I don’t necessarily agree with how he’s gone about it.

How? Enforcing our laws?

 

[Marine03]

How? Enforcing our laws?

The way he handled ICE and deportation. Separation of the families in makeshift detention centers could’ve been done different imho.

 

[Raoul Duke MU]

Honestly I’m not opposed to it.

If proponents of this change can amend the Constitution, go for it. But that would exact a political price, given why we have the citizenship clause. We will always have some sort of stain from slavery, mainly because of how hypocritical it was given our founding ideals.