C-USA expansion article

[ohio herd]

Not sure I am in favor but a decent argument they make. What do you guys think?

http://pilotonline.com/sports/colle...ate-are/article_c8d63f75-097a-5565-874a-3b595

If the divide is going to keep growing this might not end up being a bad choice. I have mixed feelings at this time

 

[whf2]

Good article, probably a bad idea that has no chance if being considered. Georgia State is in Atlanta, but do is Georgia tech, with UGA only two hours away. Plus they'd have no reason to go to the west, moving WKU would make more sense.

 

[beefcake0520]

No, we have already taken a hit bringing in ODU and Charlotte. If we bring anyone in, this time is needs to be someone with football accomplishments at the 1A level.......

 

[Always The Herd]

Article will not display?????

 

[ohio herd]

Article will not display?????

looks like they took it offline or the page is down.

 

[Chris McLaughlin]

looks like they took it offline or the page is down.

It is still up, just in a different spot: http://pilotonline.com/sports/college/old-dominion/football/minium-conference-usa-needs-to-expand-jmu-georgia-state-are/article_c8d63f75-097a-5565-874a-3b595e311eec.html

The conference is probably too watered down to take on another FCS but I think JMU makes a lot of sense. Amazing their athletic budget would immediately be the 2nd highest in CUSA if they were to join. Very good school, excellent facilities and Harrisonburg is within driving distance for most Herd fans. I wish we would have taken them instead of Charlotte.

 

[The Real SamC]

The conference has too many bottom feeders that newspaper hacks say have "potential".

College sports is not about how many people live near some college. Otherwise NYU would be the national champions, and not Alabama. Fact is kids in Atlanta who lack the $$ to go away to college go to Georgia State (it has 55000 students, but only 4200 total dorm beds, and only graduates about 6000 students per year, which means about half of the incoming freshman class drops out). It has zero traction in Atlanta. Nobody comes to their games, nobody cares. I am sure it is a fine school in academics, but its is place where townies tough it out and get themselves a degree and get ahead in life. People that like sports self-select away from places like that. This place just sounds like the same dumpster fire that UAB was. Worse because the town already has Tech across town, and pro sports as well. Zero potential.

JMU is a nice school in a pretty part of the world, and a nice place for kids that could not get into Virginia or Virginia Tech to go. It is a fine school. It is doing fine in I-AA. There is nothing wrong with that. And, in basketball and minor sports, its airport situation is worse than ours.

This writer seems to lament that ODU spends a lot of money traveling. To the extent that he is voicing ODU's opinion, yeah, CUSA and I-A is expensive. Which is why it may not be the right thing for ODU and maybe they should consider moving back down.

 

[Chris McLaughlin]

JMU is a nice school in a pretty part of the world, and a nice place for kids that could not get into Virginia or Virginia Tech to go.

Sans engineering, JMU is a more competitive school than Tech when it comes to admissions. William and Mary and UVA are the top two colleges in VA by a wide margin.

That said, the general point of your post is correct.

 

[herdalicious]

Ten years ago, if you'd have suggested Marshall scheduling a single home-and-home series with an FCS team, you'd have been run off the board. Today, its half our schedule, and people are speculating on the "upside" of adding more.

At this point, I might sarcastically suggest Marshall return to FCS, but from the looks of things, its already returned to us.

 

[whf2]

We moved up, why is it so hard to think others can too? JMU is the selected school of many kids from PA, NJ, MD, and NY; along with VA. It has become the "get away" school for many kids who want to be 4 to 7 hours from home. It is a beautiful campus in a beautiful area of our country. Their athletic budget is 148% of ours, and it just announced building a new Convocation Center and has staffed up its development (money) team to make it happen. http://www.whsv.com/news/headlines/JMU-Reveals-Plans-for-New-Convocation-Center-301465541.html I am not promoting JMU, as a matter of fact I am hoping we don't expand. But to think schools like JMU, ODU, Charlotte, etc. can't move past FCS to FBS football must sound like what others were saying about us 20 years ago. We did fine, very fine in fact.

 

[ohio herd]

I think his point is being missed here. The gap between the P5 and G5 is increasing. If we are going to end up in a pseudo D1 conference we might as well position for the future. JMU is a great add and so would Ga State. ODU and UNCC are both good adds and both will pull their weight in the future. Unless we can join the ACC or Big 12 (we can't) then no need to put down the reality of where we are. I'd rather play as a northern team in a southern conference than be southern team in a northern(MAC) conference. At least most of these schools are growing with a vision to grow even more. Most MAC schools are happy where they are.Just my view and not saying we should do this but it is worth a look IMO.

 

[houston_herd_fan]

I am not in favor of any more expansion especially with a 1-AA school moving up. however, from the money standpoint where he was trying to make his point, if his numbers are correct it makes some sense to look at the possibility.

If we could get any 2 of the following 3 JMU, Ohio, NIU, I would say go for it. Any 2 of those 3 would not drop perception of CUSA, would not enhance it either but what school would?

If travel costs would be significantly reduced, I am OK with it.

Something we all need to face, Marshall has been left behind in the power play that was called conference realignment. If the AAC was to expand, regardless of what CUSA does, if we keep up the performance, we will be the top choice for that expansion. That is the best we can hope for. If we could reduce general costs like travel, more could be put into upgrading facilities and good facilities is one of 2 areas where schools get chosen for in expansion - Facilities and performance. Especially in the revinue generating sports of Football and Basketball.

I hate that but it is what it is.

 

[oldeherd]

The conference has too many bottom feeders that newspaper hacks say have "potential".

College sports is not about how many people live near some college. Otherwise NYU would be the national champions, and not Alabama. Fact is kids in Atlanta who lack the $$ to go away to college go to Georgia State (it has 55000 students, but only 4200 total dorm beds, and only graduates about 6000 students per year, which means about half of the incoming freshman class drops out). It has zero traction in Atlanta. Nobody comes to their games, nobody cares. I am sure it is a fine school in academics, but its is place where townies tough it out and get themselves a degree and get ahead in life. People that like sports self-select away from places like that. This place just sounds like the same dumpster fire that UAB was. Worse because the town already has Tech across town, and pro sports as well. Zero potential.

JMU is a nice school in a pretty part of the world, and a nice place for kids that could not get into Virginia or Virginia Tech to go. It is a fine school. It is doing fine in I-AA. There is nothing wrong with that. And, in basketball and minor sports, its airport situation is worse than ours.

This writer seems to lament that ODU spends a lot of money traveling. To the extent that he is voicing ODU's opinion, yeah, CUSA and I-A is expensive. Which is why it may not be the right thing for ODU and maybe they should consider moving back down.

Several glaring errors in this post. Ga. State and City of Atlanta are in process of trying to build a modern football stadium for the school in downtown Atlanta, part of a redevelopment effort overall in that part of city. Also, Academically Ga. State has a lot of positives in many academic fields, and fact of its growth is nothing to sneeze at (just like the astounding student growth at Florida schools like UCF, FAU, USF and FIU). What is wrong with students staying in Atlanta, going to Ga. State, and then staying in city to work? Hell, compare that to MU, where apparently 80 per cent or more of the new grads have to get out of town as soon as they graduate because, (1) local economy is, and has been, in the tank; and (2) as a result of #1, there are NO job opportunities for virtually all of the new MU grads. Zero growth potential? What a joke; Atlanta a booming major metropolitan area, growth is continuing at a fast pace. Want Zero potential, try dying, rust belt, drug infested, conservative fundamentalist mentality Huntington, WV, under 50,000 pop. and continuing to fall!!!!

Comment about JMU also laughable. School has much higher academic standards - -they admit about 4000+ frosh every year out of about 20,000+ applicants. Compare that to MU who struggles to get 2500 applicants a year and admits just about all of them!! In mid 60s, Madison was a small women's college; today, enrollment nearing 20,000, 700+ acre campus, 110+ major buildings. Constantly rated as the top regional university in the south. Again, compare to MU's small, crowded campus, about 50 buildings, a third or so in significant deterioration and much needed repair- - -Hodges Hall already razed, Laidley Hall shuttered and probably will be razed; Jenkins, Pritchard, Holderby, Morrow Library, Original Science Building, Gullickson Hall, etc. ALL in serious need of significant repairs, upgrades, or replacement. And MU shows up on a list rating the top schools in Huntington, WV, I'm sure. Just stating the facts. Should be clear that JMU, like ODU, would be in much better shape overall, in terms of growth, overall facilities, including athletic, and budget wise, on its FIRST DAY in CUSA than MU is now in its nearly 10 years in the conference.

 

[The Real SamC]

Several glaring errors in this post. Ga. State and City of Atlanta are in process of trying to build a modern football stadium for the school in downtown Atlanta.

Actually Georgia State bought the Braves old baseball park, and will cut it up to seat 30K for football, or, put another way, have 400 seats for every fan.

GSU is a fine school, as far as I know. It does not have any fans. It never will.

Not everybody likes sports. Even in Georgia. With Tech, UGa, and pro sports, GSU is two lines in agate type in the AJC and a score on the undercrawal on local TV. Nothing more. All it will ever be.

 

[TwolfHerdfan]

Several glaring errors in this post. Ga. State and City of Atlanta are in process of trying to build a modern football stadium for the school in downtown Atlanta, part of a redevelopment effort overall in that part of city. Also, Academically Ga. State has a lot of positives in many academic fields, and fact of its growth is nothing to sneeze at (just like the astounding student growth at Florida schools like UCF, FAU, USF and FIU). What is wrong with students staying in Atlanta, going to Ga. State, and then staying in city to work? Hell, compare that to MU, where apparently 80 per cent or more of the new grads have to get out of town as soon as they graduate because, (1) local economy is, and has been, in the tank; and (2) as a result of #1, there are NO job opportunities for virtually all of the new MU grads. Zero growth potential? What a joke; Atlanta a booming major metropolitan area, growth is continuing at a fast pace. Want Zero potential, try dying, rust belt, drug infested, conservative fundamentalist mentality Huntington, WV, under 50,000 pop. and continuing to fall!!!!

Comment about JMU also laughable. School has much higher academic standards - -they admit about 4000+ frosh every year out of about 20,000+ applicants. Compare that to MU who struggles to get 2500 applicants a year and admits just about all of them!! In mid 60s, Madison was a small women's college; today, enrollment nearing 20,000, 700+ acre campus, 110+ major buildings. Constantly rated as the top regional university in the south. Again, compare to MU's small, crowded campus, about 50 buildings, a third or so in significant deterioration and much needed repair- - -Hodges Hall already razed, Laidley Hall shuttered and probably will be razed; Jenkins, Pritchard, Holderby, Morrow Library, Original Science Building, Gullickson Hall, etc. ALL in serious need of significant repairs, upgrades, or replacement. And MU shows up on a list rating the top schools in Huntington, WV, I'm sure. Just stating the facts. Should be clear that JMU, like ODU, would be in much better shape overall, in terms of growth, overall facilities, including athletic, and budget wise, on its FIRST DAY in CUSA than MU is now in its nearly 10 years in the conference.

We don't need to add teams. And if maybe more of our so called fans would donate some money, maybe MU could fix some of these issues you speak of.

 

[andy4theherd]

We moved up, why is it so hard to think others can too?

you are missing the point...

when we moved "up" in 1997 there were 112 teams. now there are 128 (with the proposal of adding even more). when you can fill multiple conferences with FCS schools, you are no longer "up".

and as noted, the separation between G5 and P5 has increased significantly since 1997 and is only getting bigger...

 

[beefcake0520]

We moved up, why is it so hard to think others can too? JMU is the selected school of many kids from PA, NJ, MD, and NY; along with VA. It has become the "get away" school for many kids who want to be 4 to 7 hours from home. It is a beautiful campus in a beautiful area of our country. Their athletic budget is 148% of ours, and it just announced building a new Convocation Center and has staffed up its development (money) team to make it happen. http://www.whsv.com/news/headlines/JMU-Reveals-Plans-for-New-Convocation-Center-301465541.html I am not promoting JMU, as a matter of fact I am hoping we don't expand. But to think schools like JMU, ODU, Charlotte, etc. can't move past FCS to FBS football must sound like what others were saying about us 20 years ago. We did fine, very fine in fact.

Your argument is true BUT there is an issue here and whether or not the issue contributed to our declining TV money is another argument. The problem is if we keep bringing in up and comers, we are going to continue to fall to the level of the belt. None of us want that perception, its bad enough already and its even somewhat arguable that the conference we left, the MAC, is slightly ahead of CUSA now, time will tell. These schools may very well be great additions who need time to grow. We already did that with UTSA, ODU and Charlotte, we don't need any more developmental programs in the conference. JMU should have taken their program to the belt when it was offered and build up their status, but in choosing the remain in the CAA instead took away their opportunity. That's their doing, and I think the conference made the right decisions on who to add when they decided to bring in some newbies. ODU simply had more upside and Charlotte had history with the conference. UTSA-see ODU. They were 1A for a year before we took them, though that isn't much.

 

[andy4theherd]

if the "unnamed source" cited in the Virginian Pilot is correct and we go from $1.17 mil per school to $670k ($500k loss) we will be making the same amount as the MAC schools per their 13 year contract with ESPN signed in 2014...

http://pilotonline.com/sports/colle...cle_f89181d1-f34f-58fc-9e73-53809bbbcc60.html

http://www.hustlebelt.com/2014/8/19/6045303/explaining-the-new-mac-espn-tv-deal

 

[andy4theherd]

you guys want to keep throwing out win/loss statistics, head to head, bowl records, attendance, ect.... that shit makes little/no difference in this game created by ESPN. it should have been made extremely clear to you how this works when Tulsa, Tulane, SMU, and Memphis where added to the AAC without even giving Marshall a look.

Bowl history since 1997:
Marshall 10-2
Memphis 3-4
Tulsa 5-4
Tulane 2-1
SMU 3-1
****keep in mind you need 6 wins to go to a bowl game****

Attendance (2014):
Marshall - 27,461
Memphis - 33,851
Tulsa - 19,647
Tulane - 25,012 (lol)
SMU - 21,528 (lol)

bottom line, the AAC could go 0'fer every single year in Bowl games and head 2 head with CUSA and will ALWAYS have a better TV contract....

 

[andy4theherd]

and best i have been able to find, AAC schools are making $2 mil each per their ESPN TV deal...

"The American signed a six-year, $126 million deal with ESPN that expires in 2020, which UCF shares just $2 million annually."

http://www.centralfloridafuture.com/story/sports/2015/05/22/aac-loses-percent-revenue/27779017/

 

[herdit44]

and best i have been able to find, AAC schools are making $2 mil each per their ESPN TV deal...

"The American signed a six-year, $126 million deal with ESPN that expires in 2020, which UCF shares just $2 million annually."

http://www.centralfloridafuture.com/story/sports/2015/05/22/aac-loses-percent-revenue/27779017/

yeah, so +900k from what we're making right now, quite possibly +1.3m (ish) form what we will make.

 

[beefcake0520]

Does it really matter? We weren't invited and not getting invited anytime soon. So does that leave us deciding between CUSA and the MAC? We are where we are for now, who knows what the future holds.

 

[herdit44]

Does it really matter? We weren't invited and not getting invited anytime soon. So does that leave us deciding between CUSA and the MAC? We are where we are for now, who knows what the future holds.

haha, so you say to forget about the aac, it doesn't matter because we weren't invited, but then tell us to focus on cusa or the mac, even though we've not been invited to the mac...

 

[beefcake0520]

haha, so you say to forget about the aac, it doesn't matter because we weren't invited, but then tell us to focus on cusa or the mac, even though we've not been invited to the mac...

I said nothing of the sort. I asked in a question or do we not have reading comprehension? Yes we have to focus on CUSA for now, its all we have at the moment and if you think the MAC would turn us down............at a loss for words on that one.

 

[herdit44]

I said nothing of the sort. I asked in a question or do we not have reading comprehension? Yes we have to focus on CUSA for now, its all we have at the moment and if you think the MAC would turn us down............at a loss for words on that one.

you're right, i misread that. my apologies.

that said, there's a very real chance the mac would turn us down. it's not a football decision, it's a decision made by university presidents, they want to be conference partners/peers with like universities. we've been there twice, thrown out once, left once that left a bitter taste in a lot of their mouths. it's far from a given they'd welcome us back with open arms.

 

[andy4theherd]

i just can't imagine the loss of $500k not being a HUGE deal for our athletic department...

and i'm in no way proposing we try anything to move on (as if we have a choice). just throwing out what we are looking at and what we are up against...

 

[beefcake0520]

I agree, there are things they can do if they need to offset it. Right now we aren't fully up to speed on how much we lose at the end of the day, might not be as bad as it seems.

 

[Gochneaur645]

We just need to get away from the Florida and Texas schools. The former are worthless, and the latter are a poor fit because of a mixture of geography, not having anything in common, or just being bad at the major sports.

The future for us should involve the better current C-USA schools, Georgia Southern and Appy, and perhaps another school like JMU. MAC schools like Ohio/NIU/Toledo would be welcome to join, but I doubt they'd ever leave.

 

[Herd Insider]

https://marshall.forums.rivals.com/...g-questions-and-offer-profound-insight.20702/