can we recover?

[ohio herd]

I am not a negative Nellie on here. However, I have never witnessed Marshall self destruct so fast. At the end of the Snyder years I was concerned we were close to being in a position of never recovering. I am concerned the bottom has fallen out and can Doc regain the momentum he had built up. I have no idea what is going on with the football team but I have a few thoughts.

> not a lack of talent. we have talent but it is not showing up.on gameday why?
> lack of leadership I have no idea who the team leaders are
> lack of intensity- if it is there I dont see it
> lack of discipline - penalties are killing us in situations where we could win games eg UNCC game
> lack of playing the right kids - where is Pittman and Durant?
> no imagination on play calling- already discussed plenty
> need to re evaluate our recruiting strategy- if kids never see the field it doesn't matter how many stars they have.

I hope we can right the ship but I don't feel we can return to 3-9 seasons year after year. The "Moss, Pennington mystique" has waned and we can't rely on it any longer.I was hoping for a bad season once the wheels started to come off. This is worse than that. Time to do some soul searching in Herdland

 

[Herd Fever]

No

 

[ohio herd]

No

so what is your take on things? Is this an anomaly or a sign of things to come?

 

[CarolinaHerdZilla22]

I am not a negative Nellie on here. However, I have never witnessed Marshall self destruct so fast. At the end of the Snyder years I was concerned we were close to being in a position of never recovering. I am concerned the bottom has fallen out and can Doc regain the momentum he had built up. I have no idea what is going on with the football team but I have a few thoughts.

> not a lack of talent. we have talent but it is not showing up.on gameday why?
> lack of leadership I have no idea who the team leaders are
> lack of intensity- if it is there I dont see it
> lack of discipline - penalties are killing us in situations where we could win games eg UNCC game
> lack of playing the right kids - where is Pittman and Durant?
> no imagination on play calling- already discussed plenty
> need to re evaluate our recruiting strategy- if kids never see the field it doesn't matter how many stars they have.

I hope we can right the ship but I don't feel we can return to 3-9 seasons year after year. The "Moss, Pennington mystique" has waned and we can't rely on it any longer.I was hoping for a bad season once the wheels started to come off. This is worse than that. Time to do some soul searching in Herdland

ohio herd...I have the same feelings. How can a team that is mentioned in the same sentence pre season as Alabama, Baylor, Ohio State, LSU for winning records at home & in Bowl Games go "from the Pent House to the Shit House" in one season? A 2016 season with promise from the Coaching staff saying to our fans....."We will have great talent on both sides of the ball in 2016." How can our program record first-time losses to North Texas, UNC-Concord (Charlotte)...and probably "a first" with losses to ODU & FIU.

I was told that about 12,000 fans [at best] were at the last game...although the Charlotte Observer newspaper reported just under 21,000, with about 200 Charlotte 49er fans. The writer also said that more than half HERD players DID NOT shake hands with the 49ers players after the loss.

I was impressed with the atmosphere & attendance (announced around 42,000) for Louisville...it was wild at first. Were the fans there to see the Cardinals more than The HERD? Or like me...I had hopes we could continue our dominance against the Cards from our last few meetings.

Like all HERD fans I am sick to my stomach and seeking answers. My cell phone has rung off the hook..."Did The HERD lose to UNC Concord?" I admit, I have thrown in the towel and cut my travel losses (expenses) to Huntington, Norfork & Hattiesburg the rest of the season.

There was a time Marshall put guys in the NFL on a regular basis. Not lately! The HERD has won ONE CUSA Championship since joining the league. Perhaps, CUSA is too hard for our program?

Seeking answers in Charlotte...HerdZilla22

 

[Rock98Dog]

Not this season unless 85 guys and 9 coaches all have an epiphany in the next two days.

I would love to know what is really going on

 

[bbneutralfan]

Fever has spoken - "No!" Fever would you care to elaborate?

 

[Herd-in-ATL]

I am not a negative Nellie on here. However, I have never witnessed Marshall self destruct so fast. At the end of the Snyder years I was concerned we were close to being in a position of never recovering. I am concerned the bottom has fallen out and can Doc regain the momentum he had built up. I have no idea what is going on with the football team but I have a few thoughts.

> not a lack of talent. we have talent but it is not showing up.on gameday why?
> lack of leadership I have no idea who the team leaders are
> lack of intensity- if it is there I dont see it
> lack of discipline - penalties are killing us in situations where we could win games eg UNCC game
> lack of playing the right kids - where is Pittman and Durant?
> no imagination on play calling- already discussed plenty
> need to re evaluate our recruiting strategy- if kids never see the field it doesn't matter how many stars they have.

I hope we can right the ship but I don't feel we can return to 3-9 seasons year after year. The "Moss, Pennington mystique" has waned and we can't rely on it any longer.I was hoping for a bad season once the wheels started to come off. This is worse than that. Time to do some soul searching in Herdland

Part of me wants to believe that this season is one of those anomaly seasons, that just happens... But the past 2 games are having me feel otherwise. Undisciplined play leads to penalties. Not being held accountable for said penalties by teammates or coaches leads to a nonchalant team chemistry which we are beginning to see in full force.

Yes, we have talent that more than passes the eye test, when physically measurable attributes such as speed, height, strength are applied. But maybe that is where the problem lies. WE all get caught up on recruiting day when we sign more 3 and 4 star players then any school in the conference, but in the past it has been that 2 star guy who hasn't been told all his life how great he is that, gives you "the play till the whistle blows effort". Has Doc who is a well respected as a recruiter, started to rely more on others to do the homework on these kids when it comes to character and heart?

I agree when it comes to Pittman and Durant (who if I'm not mistaken was tabbed in some media publications as an all CUSA Defensive team selection) I don't know what gives. All I know is we finally play a respectable schedule and we fold like a beach chair.

There is blood in the water, and you can bet ODU, FIU will be coming hard for their first win over the big bad Herd...

 

[ilmherdfan]

Maybe this is the culmination of some bad mojo that has been brewing for a couple of years whether it be among the players, coaches or both. I could spend 5 paragraphs speculating but the only people that really know are the ones inside the program on a daily basis.

This season is obviously lost. My hope is that there is an honest internal assessment done in December by the players, coaches, and AD. Where did we go wrong? What happened to take us from 10 win seasons to this year? What I would like to hear is the result of those conversations. I don't expect them to come to the fans and supporters of the program and air all the dirty laundry, but I would expect an acknowledgement that they messed up, they have identified why that happened, and what they are going to do to make sure the 2017 season is a return to success.

I can accept this season if there is the acknowledgement that it didn't meet anyone's expectations, there are no excuses for it, and corrective action will be taken (coaching changes, team/coach chemistry, etc).

I am not going to turn on Doc or Hamrick at this point. They have done some really good things out of the dark years post Pruett. However, if there are no changes or if the only thing that comes out of this is that we need to shut up and show up and mindlessly follow, there will continue to be losing seasons and a half-empty Joan.

 

[5150]

Good points in this thread. I think the AD and coach needs to speak to the fan base and communicate how this gets fixed.

Docs non-stop recruitment of trouble athletes needs to stop. And need DB's asap!

 

[TwolfHerdfan]

Unfortunately, unless massive changes are made in staff and personnel, I don't see things turning quickly. Not to be a negative Nellie but 2017 may not be much better. This team has several issues, personnel, schemes, not much chemistry and it seems like they are slower and weaker than in past years.
Unless Doc fires Legg and Mirabel and goes the Juco route for some quick fixes, it may take some time to clean up this train wreck. Sad to say. jmo.

And I know now that our talent level isn't any better than anyone we have played to date. Except Morgan St. We drink the kool aid that the papers and media gives us and believe it to be true.

 

[BRZA]

I mentioned it in another post, but with the current situation and staff, it will never get better. The coaches have lost the team, and the players are doing what they want or what they think will make them look good. To undo the damage you have to either fire the team or the coaches, and you can't fire the entire team. If Doc is smart he will make sweeping changes from top to bottom and hope he can get the room back. Otherwise, expect a few more season of lousy football until we can afford to replace Doc.

 

[beefcake0520]

Maybe this is the culmination of some bad mojo that has been brewing for a couple of years whether it be among the players, coaches or both. I could spend 5 paragraphs speculating but the only people that really know are the ones inside the program on a daily basis.

This season is obviously lost. My hope is that there is an honest internal assessment done in December by the players, coaches, and AD. Where did we go wrong? What happened to take us from 10 win seasons to this year? What I would like to hear is the result of those conversations. I don't expect them to come to the fans and supporters of the program and air all the dirty laundry, but I would expect an acknowledgement that they messed up, they have identified why that happened, and what they are going to do to make sure the 2017 season is a return to success.

I can accept this season if there is the acknowledgement that it didn't meet anyone's expectations, there are no excuses for it, and corrective action will be taken (coaching changes, team/coach chemistry, etc).

I am not going to turn on Doc or Hamrick at this point. They have done some really good things out of the dark years post Pruett. However, if there are no changes or if the only thing that comes out of this is that we need to shut up and show up and mindlessly follow, there will continue to be losing seasons and a half-empty Joan.

Hold the kids accountable, because right now it doesn't seem to be happening. In the past, if a kid continually misses assignments, they went to the bench to watch the game. We have kids missing assignments or doing dumb stuff and left out there for the next play. If we have to put a less talented guy out there that is willing to listen and learn, then so be it. Look at the teams attitude lately, its not good. Hell we are already losing, might as well teach some lessons while we are at it.

 

[Rock98Dog]

Hold the kids accountable, because right now it doesn't seem to be happening. In the past, if a kid continually misses assignments, they went to the bench to watch the game. We have kids missing assignments or doing dumb stuff and left out there for the next play. If we have to put a less talented guy out there that is willing to listen and learn, then so be it. Look at the teams attitude lately, its not good. Hell we are already losing, might as well teach some lessons while we are at it.

Problem is that due to attrition all you got to put in are a bunch of freshman that are not as good as the not so good players you already have out there. The offensive line penalties are just maddening and have been for years, especially the pre-snap stuff.

 

[pdbailey]

I am not a negative Nellie on here. However, I have never witnessed Marshall self destruct so fast. At the end of the Snyder years I was concerned we were close to being in a position of never recovering. I am concerned the bottom has fallen out and can Doc regain the momentum he had built up. I have no idea what is going on with the football team but I have a few thoughts.

> not a lack of talent. we have talent but it is not showing up.on gameday why?
> lack of leadership I have no idea who the team leaders are
> lack of intensity- if it is there I dont see it
> lack of discipline - penalties are killing us in situations where we could win games eg UNCC game
> lack of playing the right kids - where is Pittman and Durant?
> no imagination on play calling- already discussed plenty
> need to re evaluate our recruiting strategy- if kids never see the field it doesn't matter how many stars they have.

I hope we can right the ship but I don't feel we can return to 3-9 seasons year after year. The "Moss, Pennington mystique" has waned and we can't rely on it any longer.I was hoping for a bad season once the wheels started to come off. This is worse than that. Time to do some soul searching in Herdland

We can recover next season if Doc makes the necessary changes to the coaching staff and makes the right decisions in his coaching hires with a good QB coach and an innovative OC as must haves.

 

[beefcake0520]

Problem is that due to attrition all you got to put in are a bunch of freshman that are not as good as the not so good players you already have out there. The offensive line penalties are just maddening and have been for years, especially the pre-snap stuff.

If that what it takes then so be it, put the hungry freshman out there or 3rd string sophomore, if they have the right attitude they deserve to play more than many of the starters, yeah they will get burned, but I would rather see some heart vs. what we have seen to date. The offensive line stuff is crazy, I credit those mishaps and missed blocking assignments to Mirabol (spelling).

 

[bbneutralfan]

Bottom line here - and to put it bluntly, does Doc have the balls to fire both Legg and Heater to save his own job?

 

[beefcake0520]

Does Heater really need to go?? is there a better option out there that would come to MU? Legg I agree with, Heater not so much. We all know his issues with the quick slant but overall he has been one of our better D coordinators

 

[Herd-in-ATL]

If that what it takes then so be it, put the hungry freshman out there or 3rd string sophomore, if they have the right attitude they deserve to play more than many of the starters, yeah they will get burned, but I would rather see some heart vs. what we have seen to date. The offensive line stuff is crazy, I credit those mishaps and missed blocking assignments to Mirabol (spelling).

I totally agree, however I would be careful not to burn a potential quality red-shirt for a teaching moment.

 

[Rock98Dog]

Yeah, I like Heater. He's having to deal with Doc's recruiting and discipline decisions. Heater is not a recruiter, he's an Xs and Os guy, he's a teacher. He tells Doc the kind of players he wants, skill set, size, etc. but it's Doc and the other coaches filling the shopping basket. Doc is hitting the physical aspects, getting good athletes, but missing on the football IQ, desire and toughness side.

 

[bbneutralfan]

You guys must be watching some other teams defense.

 

[oldeherd]

Hope Hamrick has the stones to follow example of Fresno State's AD. Had a Coach that won league/division championships in 13 and 14. Team went south in 2015, and was doing likewise this season. AD canned him. Not saying we should do any kind of mid season coaching changes. But, it Hamrick lets Doc "stand pat" with staff after this season, which I cannot see turning around in the last 5 games, then he should make it crystal clear that nothing resembling a repeat in 2017 will be tolerated. Look around, schools often fire assistant coaches DURING the season, releasing underperforming coordinators, assistants, etc. well before season's end. Hamrick needs to let Doc know that could be an option next season, absent significant improvement in performance and W-L record.

 

[HerdFan73]

The problem is we've ALWAYS accepted this stuff. We've been one of the most penalized teams in the nation for several years.

There's not consistency with what Doc does. The most explosive offensive player we have (Foster) fumbles a couple times and we never see him again.

Yet last year antavious Rowe would consistently set new standards for dumb personal fouls every week and continued to play week after week.

When Chris Jasperse was center he'd false start twice a game , AS CENTER, and we continued to accept it.

Doc acts like a no nonsense hard ass but sometimes we get more nonsense than any teams in the country and its non-sensicle how/if he chooses to deal with it.

 

[bbneutralfan]

oldeherd that's the problem. Hamrick may have the stones but $$$ probably gets in the way. MH needs to intervene and let Doc know who the boss of the program is and relieve Legg immediately and if the D doesn't show improvement then let Heater go as well. Plenty of young coaches out there seeking to make their mark in the coaching ranks. Time to put Legg and his archaic offense out to pasture.

 

[beefcake0520]

The D is suffering from too much turnover and youth, I don't think you can put that on Heater. The only thing I might be able to say in regards to him is not adjusting to zone coverage when we were getting beat in man coverage too much

 

[TheGreenhouseEffect]

Would someone with a program by position list if the starting or number 2 player is:

A. True Freshman
B. Red Shirt Freshman
C. Sophomore
D. Junior

That should give us an idea if the we are young argument holds dihydromonoxide. I personally think it's one of those crazy seasons where all your karma goes south, and throw youth on top and a QB that thinks the Panthers will take him next year and you've got disaster on your hands.

I'd like to see Nick Smith get a shot at kicking again and leave kick offs to Amoreta for the next game.

As for leadership, Ryan Bee needs to take the reins. A blue collar player that gives it 100% each play.

 

[houston_herd_fan]

I doubt if we do this year. Have no idea what the problem is but in the words of our previous coach "We Gotta Get That Fixed"

My question is: can we cover the 16.5 underdog spread this weekend. If we can cover the underdog spread for the rest of this year, I would consider that a positive the way this season has gone so far. Such a sad comment but that is my best expectation for the rest of 2016.