Conference USA 2.0

[WVUtotheBig12]

When the conference lost members to the AAC, can I ask why they chose some of these obscure universities with no history in football? I just think a conference with the best from C-USA and the Sun Belt would be a viable entity that could demand a better media contract and feature better match-ups that would increase attendance. I have a hard time understanding why schools like UTSA, North Texas, Old Dominion, Charlotte were chosen over Appalachian State, Arkansas State, Georgia Southern, and ULL.

 

[W-S HerdFan]

.....at the time, Appy was still dominating IAA.....

 

[whf2]

TV market size, belief that the schools enrollments would become fans, travel systems.
Whether it worked or not is another question. I'd say the big miss was in getting the right TV package; which they screwed up when choosing Fox over ESPN, involving unproven networks like BeIN Sports, etc.

 

[i am herdman]

At some point you have to have quality teams. Much of CUSA has no real history, tradition, or no major accomplishments in terms of football. THe conference went for the idea of market size and I guess they were thinking the schools would grow into winning programs. Look at our division alone. FIU and FAU no real accomplishments. ODU, not even a great IAA team. Western KY decent but not a stellar program at IAA. Middl Tenn a few years of success but not a top IAA team. Charlotte no history at all.

 

[muthed]

At some point you have to have quality teams. Much of CUSA has no real history, tradition, or no major accomplishments in terms of football. THe conference went for the idea of market size and I guess they were thinking the schools would grow into winning programs. Look at our division alone. FIU and FAU no real accomplishments. ODU, not even a great IAA team. Western KY decent but not a stellar program at IAA. Middl Tenn a few years of success but not a top IAA team. Charlotte no history at all.

And Marshall underperforming year in and year out.

 

[whf2]

FIU and FAU have certainly improved, Singletary playing for Buffalo today had a great day. You'll see LeMay in the league next year, and FIU has put players in the league like Hilton. We have put players in the league too. The problem with the current conference is that its teams don't play the mid-level teams in the MAC and SunBelt enough to get folks to realize we are as good or better than those teams.

Herdmeister forecast that Charlotte would be a powerhouse in the league eventually because of the athletes around the area, I think he will be proven correct on that; new facilities that shine like a polished apple...

Look folks if teams like WKU, MTSU and FIU hadn't thought the current teams in C-USA would make a better league than the SunBelt they would not have bolted to the conference at first chance like they did.

 

[TwolfHerdfan]

FIU and FAU have certainly improved, Singletary playing for Buffalo today had a great day. You'll see LeMay in the league next year, and FIU has put players in the league like Hilton. We have put players in the league too. The problem with the current conference is that its teams don't play the mid-level teams in the MAC and SunBelt enough to get folks to realize we are as good or better than those teams.

Herdmeister forecast that Charlotte would be a powerhouse in the league eventually because of the athletes around the area, I think he will be proven correct on that; new facilities that shine like a polished apple...

Look folks if teams like WKU, MTSU and FIU hadn't thought the current teams in C-USA would make a better league than the SunBelt they would not have bolted to the conference at first chance like they did.

Have to respectfully disagree about Charlotte. I doubt they ever win CUSA in football or basketball. Lots of athletes in the area for sure but lots of competition from legitimate D1 programs in the state and out of state as well for those same athletes.

We should have picked Appy for the league and not Charlotte.
ODU hasn’t done much either considering their market.

Both schools, most schools, in CUSA aren’t the main focus in the markets they are located. Charlotte is way down the list.

 

[ThunderDrunk304]

Looking back it’s hard to believe the conference chose tv markets over competent athletic programs. Hindsight is 20/20 but Conference USA is definitely paying the price.

 

[Herdmeister]

Have to respectfully disagree about Charlotte. I doubt they ever win CUSA in football or basketball. Lots of athletes in the area for sure but lots of competition from legitimate D1 programs in the state and out of state as well for those same athletes.

We should have picked Appy for the league and not Charlotte.
ODU hasn’t done much either considering their market.

Both schools, most schools, in CUSA aren’t the main focus in the markets they are located. Charlotte is way down the list.

My thinking about Charlotte is more about basketball success. They have a great basketball tradition and with the right coach they can get it back. In fact, they just may be on that road now. They have already gotten some good wins this year

 

[whf2]

I've seen four Charlotte football games this year, their offense is legit, defense not so much; which makes our game misery to me, even more so than the loss. Yes, they have some good run-stopping stats, but they've been as exposed in the secondary as we have. Yet we don't throw to our outside and slot receivers...

I think they'll be just fine competing with Appy State and ECU for players, not so much the ACC.

 

[whf2]

Both schools, most schools, in CUSA aren’t the main focus in the markets they are located. Charlotte is way down the list.[/QUOTE]Unfortunately this applies to Marshall as well; WVU, UK...we are third in our own market.

 

[TwolfHerdfan]

Let’s see. Appy is in the top 25 and beaten two P 5 teams this year. ECU has been down but seems to be coming back with a new coach and young players. Plus they bring UCF, Memphis, SMU, and others programs to their 45K seat stadium.
Compare that to Charlotte who plays in a 15K stadium against CUSA schools.
I could sell that to a recruit all day and win 90% of the recruiting wars against UNCC easily.

 

[i am herdman]

I've seen four Charlotte football games this year, their offense is legit, defense not so much; which makes our game misery to me, even more so than the loss. Yes, they have some good run-stopping stats, but they've been as exposed in the secondary as we have. Yet we don't throw to our outside and slot receivers...

I think they'll be just fine competing with Appy State and ECU for players, not so much the ACC.

I cant see it. They are in a pro town first of all. Second the other programs are more historical and have better fan bases. They are surrounded by acc schools in state and Clemson ans south Carolina are not far away either.

Basketball they can do well

 

[whf2]

Your opinion, my opinion. We'll see over time.

 

[5150]

Have to respectfully disagree about Charlotte. I doubt they ever win CUSA in football or basketball. Lots of athletes in the area for sure but lots of competition from legitimate D1 programs in the state and out of state as well for those same athletes.

We should have picked Appy for the league and not Charlotte.
ODU hasn’t done much either considering their market.

Both schools, most schools, in CUSA aren’t the main focus in the markets they are located. Charlotte is way down the list.

If Charlotte beats ODU this weekend they have 7 wins and go bowling (and a week after beating us). I think they can compete in football. One that is changing right now in college football is with some many teams playing D1 football and less kids playing in high school you see a change. The difference is quality coaching(changing schemes to keep opponents off balance), discipline, and the ability to get the most out kids week in and week out. Its no longer just about talent.

 

[TwolfHerdfan]

If Charlotte beats ODU this weekend they have 7 wins and go bowling (and a week after beating us). I think they can compete in football. One that is changing right now in college football is with some many teams playing D1 football and less kids playing in high school you see a change. The difference is quality coaching(changing schemes to keep opponents off balance), discipline, and the ability to get the most out kids week in and week out. Its no longer just about talent.

Yep. We could win with talent in the Donnan and Pruett eras. With Doc, nope!

 

[5150]

Yep. We could win with talent in the Donnan and Pruett eras. With Doc, nope!

It hurts a guy like Doc the most because he is and always has been a talent driven coach. I have seen teams putting in new material every week forcing in game adjustments like I have not seen before.

 

[banker6796]

If you look at Sagarin ratings over the last several years since realignment CUSA should have added Appy, Troy, Arkansas State, La Tech, FAU, Ga. Southern, WKU and Middle Tenn. and FAU would have been a waste if they didn't hire Kiffen, with JMU being a better option in 2013-14.

The whole "markets" thing was just a stupid guess and lack of vision on what was going to matter. I'm sure they hired some consulting firm during the process, those people should be sued. There wasn't a team we could have added that actually brought a market with them. True story, after the Charlotte game last week I go to check in my hotel. I'm wearing Marshall gear, I'm 15 minutes from the stadium, I said I had been at a football game, the clerk asked who we played, I said "Charlotte", they looked puzzled.

If you can't deliver markets, you better get the best teams you can, ones that might at least achieve something, gain a little notoriety, and start capturing eyes to build ratings.

 

[TwolfHerdfan]

If you look at Sagarin ratings over the last several years since realignment CUSA should have added Appy, Troy, Arkansas State, La Tech, FAU, Ga. Southern, WKU and Middle Tenn. and FAU would have been a waste if they didn't hire Kiffen, with JMU being a better option in 2013-14.

The whole "markets" thing was just a stupid guess and lack of vision on what was going to matter. I'm sure they hired some consulting firm during the process, those people should be sued. There wasn't a team we could have added that actually brought a market with them. True story, after the Charlotte game last week I go to check in my hotel. I'm wearing Marshall gear, I'm 15 minutes from the stadium, I said I had been at a football game, the clerk asked who we played, I said "Charlotte", they looked puzzled.

If you can't deliver markets, you better get the best teams you can, ones that might at least achieve something, gain a little notoriety, and start capturing eyes to build ratings.

Spot on.

 

[The Real SamC]

In the modern age of 99.99% of games on TV nationwide, the concept of any G5 team having a "market" is silly. The only exception being some of the MWC schools that emulate larger programs, but which are just in small states (Wyoming, the 2 Nevadas, etc.) Nobody in Charlotte, thinks of UNCC as "us" or cares if it wins or loses. Same all over. Further, students are a self-selected bunch. If you live in Ohio and like sports, you select Ohio State, if not, well, you have all these MACers and fan-free Cincinnati. Same all over. And students that don't care about sports grow up to be alumni that don't care about sports.

The next great realignment is coming, and the way sports TV works is changing (less money). Many urban schools will have to rethink what sports means to them, all across the G5.

 

[ohio herd]

Your opinion, my opinion. We'll see over time.

I lived in Charlotte for 7 years and I agree with you. While true Appy is established ECU is struggling and that presents UNCC a window of opportunity. Yes ,it is a crowded for recruiting but the city and the school are first class so I would never count them out in the long term. That being said, we should have won IMO.

 

[banker6796]

Oh, and to the wvu fan that started this thread, this is actually CUSA v.3.5. Marshall came in on v.2.0 in 2005 when Cincy, USF and Louisville left for the Big East. CUSA v3.0 was the realignment of 2013. v.3.5 was the minor shakeup in 2014 when the rest of the teams (ECU, Tulsa) left and WKU and FAU were added.

 

[whf2]

College teams with Pro cities doing OK

Cincinnati = UC
Philadelphia -Temple
Atlanta - GaTech
Dallas - SMU
LA - USC, Cal, UCLA
San Diego - San Diego State
Denver, Colorado and USAF Academy, ,maybe even count Colorado State

Just a few that come to mind, the Panthers won't be a problem for UNCC.

 

[GreenDuke]

College teams with Pro cities doing OK

Cincinnati = UC
Philadelphia -Temple
Atlanta - GaTech
Dallas - SMU
LA - USC, Cal, UCLA
San Diego - San Diego State
Denver, Colorado and USAF Academy, ,maybe even count Colorado State

Just a few that come to mind, the Panthers won't be a problem for UNCC.

Lulz.

 

[TwolfHerdfan]

College teams with Pro cities doing OK

Cincinnati = UC
Philadelphia -Temple
Atlanta - GaTech
Dallas - SMU
LA - USC, Cal, UCLA
San Diego - San Diego State
Denver, Colorado and USAF Academy, ,maybe even count Colorado State

Just a few that come to mind, the Panthers won't be a problem for UNCC.

Obviously you haven’t seen some of those schools attendance numbers. Just because they are located there doesn’t mean they are tearing it up at the gate. Very few of those schools are front page news in the sports section.

 

[whf2]

I actually watch a lot of their games, they get players, win games, average reasonable attendance. The discussion was about the ability to succeed in a pro city; many of these programs did this year.

 

[The Real SamC]

College teams with Pro cities doing OK

Cincinnati = UC

You do realize that UC lets any HS student, any teacher and any student at ANY college, vo-tech, job corps, trade school, in the metro area in free, and sells season tickets to whoever else for $99, right?

Philadelphia -Temple

laugh.

[Atlanta - GaTech

Georgia Tech, once a great program, praddles about, averages about 16K empties per game, and is covered in Atlanta media the same way WV Metronews, the Gag-zette, and WOWK cover MU here.

Dallas - SMU

SMU markets to its students and alumni, not the the general DFW populace. Nothing wrong with that, of course, but that is not “doing well”. Stadium holds less the JCE Stadium.

LA - USC, Cal, UCLA

Cal is 376 miles from LA.

UCLA, playing in the historic Rose Bowl, with 45K students who can get in with their IDs, and in the second largest metro area in the country, drew claimed live gates of about 40K/game. Anybody who watched their game with Cal know they are making that up.

USC, see the LA discussion above, is playing to a half full LA Coliseum.

San Diego - San Diego State

SDSU is drawing 25K or so to an abandoned pro stadium. It has 35K students who could get in with an ID, and is in a city with no pro football.

Denver, Colorado and USAF Academy, ,maybe even count Colorado State

The USAFA, is more than an hour from Denver, Colorado State more than that in the opposite direction. Service academy football is a different animal from anything else, of course. CSU draws 20K or so in the MWC.

 

[i am herdman]

If you look at Sagarin ratings over the last several years since realignment CUSA should have added Appy, Troy, Arkansas State, La Tech, FAU, Ga. Southern, WKU and Middle Tenn. and FAU would have been a waste if they didn't hire Kiffen, with JMU being a better option in 2013-14.

The whole "markets" thing was just a stupid guess and lack of vision on what was going to matter. I'm sure they hired some consulting firm during the process, those people should be sued. There wasn't a team we could have added that actually brought a market with them. True story, after the Charlotte game last week I go to check in my hotel. I'm wearing Marshall gear, I'm 15 minutes from the stadium, I said I had been at a football game, the clerk asked who we played, I said "Charlotte", they looked puzzled.

If you can't deliver markets, you better get the best teams you can, ones that might at least achieve something, gain a little notoriety, and start capturing eyes to build ratings.

Exactly. I wonder how many people in North Carolina or even Mecklenburg County know that Charlotte has a football team?

 

[i am herdman]

College teams with Pro cities doing OK

Cincinnati = UC
Philadelphia -Temple
Atlanta - GaTech
Dallas - SMU
LA - USC, Cal, UCLA
San Diego - San Diego State
Denver, Colorado and USAF Academy, ,maybe even count Colorado State

Just a few that come to mind, the Panthers won't be a problem for UNCC.

Panthers, Hornets are the pro teams

Follow that up with

In no particular order

UNC
NC State
Duke
Clemson
South Carolina
Virginia Tech(yes has a nice presence of fans in the Carolinas)
ACC Basketball Is KING
Appalachian who has nice G5 program going right now
ECU
Wake Forest forgot about theme even.
Historical Black Colleges
SEC fans
Small college teams like Elon and such in there somewhere
More NFL fans as NC cities like Charlotte and Raleigh are melting pots from all over creation
Carolina Hurricanes Hockey
Minor League Hockey in Charlotte
Minor League Baseball in Charlotte with a AAA team and stadium downtown
Weather is warm in the fall and people running to the coast to go to the beach for the weekend.
Ikea is having a sale
Scarrowinds at Carrowinds for Halloween
Leaves changing in Asheville and the brewery is open.
Half of their student commute home on the weekend back to Greensboro, Raleigh, and Charlottte.
The list goes on

Now where exactly does Charlotte Football fit in?

I could be wrong but, I just don't see it.

 

[UCFKnight85]

I’d much rather have Marshall than Tulsa or Tulane ......

 

[goherd44]

I’d much rather have Marshall than Tulsa or Tulane ......

If you can make that happen that would be great. Thanks!