D'Antoni will be here as long as he wants to be....

[W-S HerdFan]

You can convert the Pontiace Fiero into a Lambo for a fraction of the cost, doesn't mean your car has the quality within to perform to what it's masked to be.

Same can be said about MU's basketball program...which is a pretty smart way to mask underachievement. It was so terrible for so long that one long year has given the program, what appears to be according to your post, at least 10 years of "but but we won an NCAA tournament game!!! Remember!!!" Then proceed to load up your youtube account, where the same tournament game and WKU final are the only things suggested since its literally all you'll have to present your case.

As I have said, it was unfortunate UMBC happened to pull the biggest upset of the sport (and probably top 5 all time) the same year MU won their game.
But regardless...nobody spoke of MU again, nobody has mentioned it since (except on here), and nobody seems to care.
It literally happens every year.

BTW "given time to develop" well, he developed the team quite quickly and relied too heavily on one single player to carry the team to relative high level consistency.

Thats not Dan's fault, but I believe he achieved too much too quickly and now he is deservedly getting heat for not remaining consistent.
There is zero excuse for Elmore...Dan had an entire season and a half to find a replacement and groom him to play, at the very least, develop an existing roster player. He hasn't, and it has shown.

"Achieved too much too quickly" …..like he should be admonished for not taking it more slowly? Eh Gods, man!

A team at our level doesn't often get college talent like Elmore, Burks & (for 2 seasons) Watson very often. When was the last time 2 players graduated as the #1 & #5 all-time leading scorers in their school's history? Unlike the contention that unheralded teams qualify for the NCAA's every year, I would bet you could dig a while before you find a circumstance like that in college hoops history. The reason you won't is because it is so unlikely that 2 players get the amount of shots needed to pull off #1 & #5 during the same 4 years of eligibility. Look fellas, my post wasn't meant to have to defend anything about DD other than he will not be fired from his job, ever. He will choose when he wants to stop, and how many coaches outside of the blue bloods get to have that?

Consider this: Let's say Doc, aged 60, knew that he would coach the Herd until he was 75, with no worry that he would get canned....how would the Herd Nation feel about that? Just let that thought marinade in your brain for a bit......

 

[Sean Hammond]

Every discussion on this board has to be so black and white because people have dug their heels in so damn deep on the basketball/football programs and coaches. There are shades of gray. This can be a really young team who isn't getting blown out in CUSA play and looked good OOC against UF, ND, UNI, & Duquesne. While also producing an unacceptable 3-5 conference record & two of those wins coming from 3 of the CUSA members in the standings below us.

Yes, we're young. But why are we young? Mostly because Jannson Williams has played like ass and we're trying to find a guy who can replicate the production we should be getting from him. Why are we so reliant upon the production of one guy? Mostly because DD allowed Sustic & Thienemann to pretend to be a D1 athletes for far too long and we've suffered from not having players developing in those spots. Our identity is also no longer the run & gun team we were with Elmore & Burks, so we're kind of having an identity crisis as well right now. February is approaching and we're still not sure if we need to keep the score in the 60s or try to push it into the 80s. DD has to figure it out and doesn't appear to be large making strides in doing so. I'm starting to lose hope. Where is Mikel Beyers and why hasn't he developed more with his athleticism and skillset? Cam Brooks-Harris--is that a kid who's getting better as the season progresses and seems to be a player we can count on over the next 2-3 years? Andy Taylor shows flashes of being a good player, but sometimes we get Barney Fife--a turnover machine who refuses to shoot like he's hanging on to that one bullet in his pocket. I can deal with that, he's young. But those preseason posts of him being the post-Elmore savior seem to be a bit premature. We're a terrible shooting team, coached by a guy who preached analytics. We're what Mike Leach would look like if he suddenly recruited a ton of tight ends and fullbacks. Square pegs. Round holes.


I don't get the sense of this roster just needing some time to get into that CUSA top 4 category. I see a lot of flawed players being held together by duct tape (West & Kinsey). 3-5 through 8 isn't good enough. And if some players don't step up over the next month, and they don't get an offseason notice that their services are no longer needed, we'll be a very average veteran team next season. And I could get on board if we were progressing and forming an identity. But I think we're worse and more lost in late January than we were in late December. That's where my frustration comes from. If DD doesn't figure it out over the next month, I can't pump sunshine about future years. I don't currently see it with this group. Things can change, but it doesn't look good right now.

 

[muthed]

So, why is it that Williams is not producing and Byers hasn't been seen in 2 weeks?

 

[W-S HerdFan]

So, why is it that Williams is not producing and Byers hasn't been seen in 2 weeks?

muthed - THAT is an excellent ?

 

[Herd-nificent]

How do you compare football at 8-4, with a loss to a top 20 FB program and basketball that is currently less than .500 ???

 

[GoHerdMarshallYes]

"Achieved too much too quickly" …..like he should be admonished for not taking it more slowly? Eh Gods, man!

A team at our level doesn't often get college talent like Elmore, Burks & (for 2 seasons) Watson very often. When was the last time 2 players graduated as the #1 & #5 all-time leading scorers in their school's history? Unlike the contention that unheralded teams qualify for the NCAA's every year, I would bet you could dig a while before you find a circumstance like that in college hoops history. The reason you won't is because it is so unlikely that 2 players get the amount of shots needed to pull off #1 & #5 during the same 4 years of eligibility. Look fellas, my post wasn't meant to have to defend anything about DD other than he will not be fired from his job, ever. He will choose when he wants to stop, and how many coaches outside of the blue bloods get to have that?

Consider this: Let's say Doc, aged 60, knew that he would coach the Herd until he was 75, with no worry that he would get canned....how would the Herd Nation feel about that? Just let that thought marinade in your brain for a bit......

"A team at our level" got Whiteside and Kane. One is still in the NBA.
One for a season the other for...2 seasons or one, I forget. Regardless, we certainly CAN gwt better talent.

Graduating all time leading scoring in a basketball program that even you use their history as being not good, in fact really bad for the last 30 years?
I get it, MU has a flash or two of individual players who can score, but let's not even try to pretend MU has some sort of comparable basketball history.
Being the all time leading scorer in a program that has had a history of being bad, may not be something that can hold weight. But in either case, alright.

Lets go ahead and use the consensus on your Doc talk.
Overwhelmingly, including me, fans would not want that. Doc has literally no pressure to win big if such a thing were to happen.
Its why I think he will not have a renewed contract ubless he goes unbeaten and a NY6 bowl win...even then, it'll be discussed.

If Dan were ever guaranteed anything like this, first off, we'd all know, cause he'd say it.
But that would be the dumbest thing ever.

You said how many coaches outside the blue bloods get that?
Minus Huggins, nobody, because when they win, like, you know, make the NCAA tournament routinely, their coaches get hired elsewhere.
Dan did it one time...and even if he were to do it again, is it possible he does leave?

You say Dan sounds like he'll be here whenever he wants, all coaches say that, then they either get a better job elsewhere or get fired.

 

[5150]

True.

Please, other posters do not jump on me for repeating this yet again. Apparently this poster doesn’t get it, or, more likely, just wants to argue.

CUSA was formed for FOOTBALL. CUSA schools joined together to play FOOTBALL on the same level. Every CUSA school’s main athletic goal is to compete in FOOTBALL at the G5 level.

Men’s basketball, and everything else, was brought along for the ride. Vastly different histories, resources, ideas, goals, and fan and student interest. As it relates to men’s basketball, about 1/3rd of the league simply has no interest in men’s basketball at all. It is just something they play because they have to. Another third, smartly, know that they have limited resources and have put the vast majority of what they have into football. One effect of this is a ridiculous number of free parking ervictories out there in CUSA.

Leaving the last third. The third that has a fan base that cares, that has a basketball history, that has the resources to compete. MU is in that third.

Thus, being in the top third of CUSA in terms of resources, history, fan interest and level of institutional commitment, in terms of men’s basketball, it is obviously failure to not achieve that, every single year.

Hey Sam why did ODU offer the 6-1, 205 lbs running back/linebacker from Tyler County Mark Rucker and Marshall didn't? The new DC at ODU came from WV and loved his video and offered him as soon as he got the job but Im sure Doc does not even know his name. He is down in Ga and Florida looking for some great talent with big offers but crap attitudes. The kid wanted to stay close home and walked on at WVU.

 

[lexkyherdfan]

"Achieved too much too quickly" …..like he should be admonished for not taking it more slowly? Eh Gods, man!

A team at our level doesn't often get college talent like Elmore, Burks & (for 2 seasons) Watson very often. When was the last time 2 players graduated as the #1 & #5 all-time leading scorers in their school's history? Unlike the contention that unheralded teams qualify for the NCAA's every year, I would bet you could dig a while before you find a circumstance like that in college hoops history. The reason you won't is because it is so unlikely that 2 players get the amount of shots needed to pull off #1 & #5 during the same 4 years of eligibility. Look fellas, my post wasn't meant to have to defend anything about DD other than he will not be fired from his job, ever. He will choose when he wants to stop, and how many coaches outside of the blue bloods get to have that?

Consider this: Let's say Doc, aged 60, knew that he would coach the Herd until he was 75, with no worry that he would get canned....how would the Herd Nation feel about that? Just let that thought marinade in your brain for a bit......

But we had nobody groomed and ready for when Elmore and Burks left. that is a problem. We shouldn't have had to wait on a kid coming in at mid season to start for us and be the one we counted on. He has had his ups and downs as I expected. We needed someone playing in games last year with Elmore getting ready. Just like we needed someone playing opposite of Penava to step in last year when he left. That goes back to recruiting. I don't care how good talent is you have to be prepared for when it left. We had a one of a kind QB in Chad Pennington...what did we have in the wings...Byron Leftwich. That is because the staff recruited well.

Now look at some of the things our kids don't do and think about the criticisms we hit the football team with. We can't shoot FT and make silly turnovers. We have typically not been a great rebounding team. Why shouldn't we be critical of the staff for those issues over the whole time they have been here. Over in football we slam the coaches if the QB continues to throw off his back foot or the CB doesn't turn their heads. Both sports deserve criticism for things like that. I have never understood the lack of emphasis on FT and basic rebounding as well as how to properly throw a football or turn your head playing defense but that is me.

We should be better than we are in basketball this year even with losing Elmore and Burks and there is absolutely no reason we should be losing to Charlotte in football and not playing in championship games.

 

[Sean Hammond]

But we had nobody groomed and ready for when Elmore and Burks left. that is a problem. We shouldn't have had to wait on a kid coming in at mid season to start for us and be the one we counted on. He has had his ups and downs as I expected. We needed someone playing in games last year with Elmore getting ready. Just like we needed someone playing opposite of Penava to step in last year when he left. That goes back to recruiting. I don't care how good talent is you have to be prepared for when it left. We had a one of a kind QB in Chad Pennington...what did we have in the wings...Byron Leftwich. That is because the staff recruited well.

Now look at some of the things our kids don't do and think about the criticisms we hit the football team with. We can't shoot FT and make silly turnovers. We have typically not been a great rebounding team. Why shouldn't we be critical of the staff for those issues over the whole time they have been here. Over in football we slam the coaches if the QB continues to throw off his back foot or the CB doesn't turn their heads. Both sports deserve criticism for things like that. I have never understood the lack of emphasis on FT and basic rebounding as well as how to properly throw a football or turn your head playing defense but that is me.

We should be better than we are in basketball this year even with losing Elmore and Burks and there is absolutely no reason we should be losing to Charlotte in football and not playing in championship games.

I agree with your post 100%. But in regards to the FT shooting, the reason we suck so bad right now is because this is what happens when you run your offense through big men who can't shoot as opposed to the guard-centric offenses we ran previously. Prior to this season, Elmore & Burks were getting the bulk of our FT attempts because we spaced the floor and they attacked the basket. Now, Iran Bennett is getting a lot of those. That is how a great FT shooting team can go to a really bad FT shooting team in one season. There was a "hack-a-Shaq" for a reason. If you're going to put a bad FT shooter on the floor, putting them on the FT line makes you a very inefficient offense.


However, to your point, the fact that we were supposedly building this program around the idea of basketball analytics and we have a group of guys who struggle to put the ball in the basket is very concerning.

 

[ohio herd]

How do you compare football at 8-4, with a loss to a top 20 FB program and basketball that is currently less than .500 ???

football lost to three Top 25 schools , UC, UCF and Boise State. Final AP poll.

 

[The Real SamC]

Consider this: Let's say Doc, aged 60, knew that he would coach the Herd until he was 75, with no worry that he would get canned....how would the Herd Nation feel about that? Just let that thought marinade in your brain for a bit......

For me, I would be thrilled. But, as always, you miss the point. Football and basketball are fundamentally separate entities. Particularly, as I have explained, in CUSA. Some of us want to discuss basketball. The following:

- One time, from 4th place, we had an 8 day hot streak, it might happen again.

- We are supposed to win every football game we play, the teams we play should be ashamed to exist.

- Various WV slogans (Hillbilly Ball, 304 Boys, etc) and references to a coalfields and a Huntington long past away.

- Our basketball team stank (because we did not demand better) from Huck to Dan.

ARE NOT REASONS TO NOT DISCUSS BASKETBALL.

Right now, WHETHER WE HAVE A FOOTBALL TEAM OR NOT, our basketball team is ridiculous. Try to stick to that subject.

 

[5150]

For me, I would be thrilled. But, as always, you miss the point. Football and basketball are fundamentally separate entities. Particularly, as I have explained, in CUSA. Some of us want to discuss basketball. The following:

- One time, from 4th place, we had an 8 day hot streak, it might happen again.

- We are supposed to win every football game we play, the teams we play should be ashamed to exist.

- Various WV slogans (Hillbilly Ball, 304 Boys, etc) and references to a coalfields and a Huntington long past away.

- Our basketball team stank (because we did not demand better) from Huck to Dan.

ARE NOT REASONS TO NOT DISCUSS BASKETBALL.

Right now, WHETHER WE HAVE A FOOTBALL TEAM OR NOT, our basketball team is ridiculous. Try to stick to that subject.

And its a rebuilding year. I thnk Dan has proved he understands how to win at marshall just a down year

 

[muthed]

Sam says bball had an 8 day hot streak. I'm not sure Doc has ever had an 8 day hot streak.

Sam would be good with Doc being here forever. If that happens there are going to be 2 front row seats available at the Joan.

 

[The Real SamC]

And its a rebuilding year. I thnk Dan has proved he understands how to win at marshall just a down year

And your link to where you said that in October is?

Some of understood what this team was long ago. Others spewed delusion. Those of us who called them on the delusion were ridiculed. But we were right.

And, next year, and the next, when this team of s***birds is just what it is right now, what will be the excuse?

 

[TwolfHerdfan]

Dan's 19-20 season = Doc's 2016.

 

[5150]

And your link to where you said that in October is?

Some of understood what this team was long ago. Others spewed delusion. Those of us who called them on the delusion were ridiculed. But we were right.

And, next year, and the next, when this team of s***birds is just what it is right now, what will be the excuse?

Who cares if I said that in Oct because the facts speak to a rebuilding year with zero seniors. Dan has won more games in the NCAA tourney then any other coach in the last 40 years.

 

[GreenDuke]

Who cares if I said that in Oct because the facts speak to a rebuilding year with zero seniors. Dan has won more games in the NCAA tourney then any other coach in the last 40 years.

Any coach since 1939.

 

[ohio herd]

Any coach since 1939.

technically it is our only win ever in the ncaa d1. The others were naia or something

 

[The Real SamC]

Who cares if I said that in Oct

Me. And all of us who understood what this was, long ago. Those of us who understand basketball, correctly, pointed out what this team was. We were ridiculed, made fun of, etc.

So, NOW, after the fact, you understand I was right. Not happy to be, be am. And NOW the “we are young” meme starts.

In a few years, these bad players will be older. Nothing more.

 

[GreenDuke]

technically it is our only win ever in the ncaa d1. The others were naia or something

NAIB, which became the NAIA.

 

[5150]

Me. And all of us who understood what this was, long ago. Those of us who understand basketball, correctly, pointed out what this team was. We were ridiculed, made fun of, etc.

So, NOW, after the fact, you understand I was right. Not happy to be, be am. And NOW the “we are young” meme starts.

In a few years, these bad players will be older. Nothing more.

ok, I get it, you were right, so lets move and hope next season is back to contending for a championship.

 

[GoHerdMarshallYes]

But we had nobody groomed and ready for when Elmore and Burks left. that is a problem. We shouldn't have had to wait on a kid coming in at mid season to start for us and be the one we counted on. He has had his ups and downs as I expected. We needed someone playing in games last year with Elmore getting ready. Just like we needed someone playing opposite of Penava to step in last year when he left. That goes back to recruiting. I don't care how good talent is you have to be prepared for when it left. We had a one of a kind QB in Chad Pennington...what did we have in the wings...Byron Leftwich. That is because the staff recruited well.

Now look at some of the things our kids don't do and think about the criticisms we hit the football team with. We can't shoot FT and make silly turnovers. We have typically not been a great rebounding team. Why shouldn't we be critical of the staff for those issues over the whole time they have been here. Over in football we slam the coaches if the QB continues to throw off his back foot or the CB doesn't turn their heads. Both sports deserve criticism for things like that. I have never understood the lack of emphasis on FT and basic rebounding as well as how to properly throw a football or turn your head playing defense but that is me.

We should be better than we are in basketball this year even with losing Elmore and Burks and there is absolutely no reason we should be losing to Charlotte in football and not playing in championship games.

50 years coaching experience and the inability to develop players quickly/early, to me, that is a problem.

If he is as good as advertised, youth should NEVER be a problem. It doesn't hinder the continual successes of big name programs when youth is presented. They have well oiled machines..."but but but Dan is so likeable!!"

It doesn't seem to fall on Dan...somehow, according to Boomer, it's the player's fault for not being able to comprehend his genius coaching and his skills in teaching the amazingly beautiful basketball philosophy he has carried proudly with MU for all eternity.

Since you bring football into it, imagine if the basketball team suffered the same type of injuries to key players that the football team had, and the team managed to win more games than they lost?
Praise would be overwhelming for Dan...

But of course, Dan will live forever and walks on water but we must continue to sit and admire him while these prophecies come true.

 

[johns1124]

Who cares if I said that in Oct because the facts speak to a rebuilding year with zero seniors. Dan has won more games in the NCAA tourney then any other coach in the last 40 years.

Zero Seniors? Welcome to NCAA Basketball where kids are looking to jump to the NBA or overseas by their junior year.

He won one game! It was a nice hot streak, that's it. Might wait another 30 for another opportunity.

 

[TwolfHerdfan]

50 years coaching experience and the inability to develop players quickly/early, to me, that is a problem.

If he is as good as advertised, youth should NEVER be a problem. It doesn't hinder the continual successes of big name programs when youth is presented. They have well oiled machines..."but but but Dan is so likeable!!"

It doesn't seem to fall on Dan...somehow, according to Boomer, it's the player's fault for not being able to comprehend his genius coaching and his skills in teaching the amazingly beautiful basketball philosophy he has carried proudly with MU for all eternity.

Since you bring football into it, imagine if the basketball team suffered the same type of injuries to key players that the football team had, and the team managed to win more games than they lost?
Praise would be overwhelming for Dan...

But of course, Dan will live forever and walks on water but we must continue to sit and admire him while these prophecies come true.

50 Years coaching and the inability to develop players. Sounds like another coach I know.

 

[19MU88]

I don’t want to get into a whole thing here so I’ll just make one small request. Will the FB vs BB guys please just STFU! Thx!

 

[lexkyherdfan]

I don’t want to get into a whole thing here so I’ll just make one small request. Will the FB vs BB guys please just STFU! Thx!

actually the reality of the situation is both sports deserve criticism. Why some want to defend one vs the other when both deserve it amazes me. Just like why some make excuses for one or only get excited for one. Personally I get excited and cheer for all Marshall teams and I will criticize all team’s when warranted. That is how it works. You don’t make excuses for one team and turn around and be critical for another that has similar issues but that is me.

 

[W-S HerdFan]

It would, in fact, be interesting to read old posts by members to see if their philosophies have changed depending on who the HC was and results from one year to the next. For instance - Sam has been here since 2007. What were his views on the decent teams Herrion had before he lost control of his team and started faking myocardial infarctions?

 

[GoHerdMarshallYes]

50 Years coaching and the inability to develop players. Sounds like another coach I know.

Not disagreeing.
One gets a pass and the other gets crucified.

 

[GoHerdMarshallYes]

It would, in fact, be interesting to read old posts by members to see if their philosophies have changed depending on who the HC was and results from one year to the next. For instance - Sam has been here since 2007. What were his views on the decent teams Herrion had before he lost control of his team and started faking myocardial infarctions?

All the past jabs on previous coaching regimes won't change the fact the current one is garbage.

 

[GoHerdMarshallYes]

actually the reality of the situation is both sports deserve criticism. Why some want to defend one vs the other when both deserve it amazes me. Just like why some make excuses for one or only get excited for one. Personally I get excited and cheer for all Marshall teams and I will criticize all team’s when warranted. That is how it works. You don’t make excuses for one team and turn around and be critical for another that has similar issues but that is me.

Don't tell W-S that...he thinks Dan can cure cancer and blames the players for not knowing fundamentals head coaches should be teaching them.

 

[caliherd]

Don't tell W-S that...he thinks Dan can cure cancer and blames the players for not knowing fundamentals head coaches should be teaching them.

Dude you and your brother in bullsht Sam are so full of crap. Doc is about to begin his 11th year coaching Marshall making close to a million bucks a year. He has been mediocre his entire career including 2014 when he played a completely non P5 schedule with one of the best QBs and running backs we have ever had and still didn’t go undefeated because we lost to a 500 conference mate on our own field. Then we squeaked by a suspension depleted La Tech team at home to win our only championship during Docs 10 years.

Yet with even having every advantage over our conference mates other than location we have won 1 championship. A horrible record vs 500 and above schools and against P5s even on our own field, a coach who has had some of the worst losses in the history of our stadium many to fellow G5 schools.
Yet with all of that he is not even close to being in the hot seat and is about to start his 11th year as HC. At an average of just 700K a year which I know he makes more than that but at 700 K a year he has made at least 7 million dollars in salary alone in his career at Marshall which doesn’t include endorsements etc. We should all be that crucified.

To finish I think Dan is very mediocre. The CIT championship means nothing to me. He also in my book dampened his NCAA win by getting blown out in the next round by WVU. He’s had entirely too many blow out losses for my taste especially at home. Toledo and Charleston this year as an example. He continues to recruit projects especially euros and he did a pitiful job in preparing for losing 2 of the best players we have had in our history. Our foul shooting continues to be horrible and this year on a program that’s Chuck it up 100 times a game and now we can’t shoot.

On this board and others I have seen plenty of criticism of Dan. Why you think he gets a pass is laughable. Even the defenders of Dan acknowledge his short comings. But they also understand that San operates with 10 times less resources than football and he has only been doing it 6 seasons not 10. He also gets a pass for winning our only NCAA game in the history of our program. That was only 2 seasons ago. I will guarantee you this if Marshall continues to have a bad season like we are having now and we follow it up with a bad season next year I guarantee you there will be calls for Dans head. But you and Sam will bury your Doc worshiping heads in the sand and won’t notice it.

 

[19MU88]

Dude you and your brother in bullsht Sam are so full of crap. Doc is about to begin his 11th year coaching Marshall making close to a million bucks a year. He has been mediocre his entire career including 2014 when he played a completely non P5 schedule with one of the best QBs and running backs we have ever had and still didn’t go undefeated because we lost to a 500 conference mate on our own field. Then we squeaked by a suspension depleted La Tech team at home to win our only championship during Docs 10 years.

Yet with even having every advantage over our conference mates other than location we have won 1 championship. A horrible record vs 500 and above schools and against P5s even on our own field, a coach who has had some of the worst losses in the history of our stadium many to fellow G5 schools.
Yet with all of that he is not even close to being in the hot seat and is about to start his 11th year as HC. At an average of just 700K a year which I know he makes more than that but at 700 K a year he has made at least 7 million dollars in salary alone in his career at Marshall which doesn’t include endorsements etc. We should all be that crucified.

To finish I think Dan is very mediocre. The CIT championship means nothing to me. He also in my book dampened his NCAA win by getting blown out in the next round by WVU. He’s had entirely too many blow out losses for my taste especially at home. Toledo and Charleston this year as an example. He continues to recruit projects especially euros and he did a pitiful job in preparing for losing 2 of the best players we have had in our history. Our foul shooting continues to be horrible and this year on a program that’s Chuck it up 100 times a game and now we can’t shoot.

On this board and others I have seen plenty of criticism of Dan. Why you think he gets a pass is laughable. Even the defenders of Dan acknowledge his short comings. But they also understand that San operates with 10 times less resources than football and he has only been doing it 6 seasons not 10. He also gets a pass for winning our only NCAA game in the history of our program. That was only 2 seasons ago. I will guarantee you this if Marshall continues to have a bad season like we are having now and we follow it up with a bad season next year I guarantee you there will be calls for Dans head. But you and Sam will bury your Doc worshiping heads in the sand and won’t notice it.

good post. disappointed in both programs right now. but, we are getting a much better return on our investment in programs with Dan!!! not even close.

 

[W-S HerdFan]

Maybe it would help to list the all-time winningest coaches in MU basketball history.

Cam Henderson - career record 362-159 W% .695
Really such an outlier, he should almost be in a category by himself. Coached more games than the next 2 1/2 coaches combined. Coached in an era when many of our grandfathers were young men.

Rick Huckaby - career record 129-59 W% .686
Coached 3 NCAA tourney teams in only 6 seasons. Beat WVU while he & his staff wore tuxedos. Fired under murky circumstances - very little criticism is sent his way on this board, many of whom weren't even born when he was here.

Greg White - career record 115-84 W% .578 Most successful (to date) alumnus to coach the Herd. Had moderate success, didn't have extensive coaching experience when he was hired. A bad shot/air ball//put back in Gsbo by UTC kept him out of the Dance.

Dan D'Antoni - career record 105-89 W% .541 Only coach in Marshall history to win a game in the NCAA tourney. Has stabilized the program, and achieved 4 consecutive winning seasons for the 1st time since Huck won 5 in a row from '83-'88. Coached his teams to 2 conference finals in the last 3 seasons. Criticized for his coaching resume', philosophy & recruiting ability, he nevertheless will most likely move past White & Huckaby into the #2 spot all-time by the end of the '20-'21 season. Famous for Hillbilly Ball, the 304 boys, Danalytics & aw shucks colloquialisms. Oldest HC in modern history @72 years young.

Now, the naysayers might claim that this just underscores how pitiful Marshall basketball has been through the years. But, really, how else can you compare but with wins & losses?

Let's see what we get from this listing of factually accurate material.

 

[The Real SamC]

Yet with even having every advantage over our conference mates other than location we have won 1 championship.

First, of course, this is a basketball thread. Why not express your football ideas in a football thread? Or better yet, understand that the two programs are fundamentally un-related, especially in made-for-football CUSA, and one coach could literally burn the stadium or arena to the ground and it would not be relevant to a discussion of the other.

But, as we covered during our winning, bowl bound football season, this theme among the Doc haters that MU has all of these supposed “advantages” is childish. It is the stuff of a 10 year old who thinks his team is just supposed to win, because they are his team. When you grow up, you realize the world is more complex.

As stated in the last thread on this subject, MU has three main “advantages” over MOST (not all) fellow CUSA members. Great facilities (thanks Mike), a bigger role in the local culture/media, and history. That is all. The idiotic and childish idea that Marshall is supposed to win because it is Marshall and the other teams in the league should be ashamed to exist, is profoundly ignorant.

Go ahead, list all these “advantages” With a discussion of how they relate to MU and not to other programs.

Hint: They don’t exist.

To finish I think Dan is very mediocre.

Congratulations, you know basketball.

But they also understand that San operates with 10 times less resources than football

Nice excuse. Winners win, losers make excuses. But you need to try harder. In this made-for-football league, MU is clearly in the very top group in terms of institutional commitment to basketball. MU really does have lots of advantages over the bottom of this league, yet we are at the bottom of this league.

I will guarantee you this if Marshall continues to have a bad season like we are having now and we follow it up with a bad season next year I guarantee you there will be calls for Dans head.

No there won’t. Except by me and a few others. Mostly you will see:

- One time, from 4th place, we had an 8 day hot streak, it might happen again. Nothing in the regular season matters anyway.
- We are young.
- X just didn’t work out.
- Nobody else has been any good since Huck.
- I’m OK with it.
- If only Y had not left school/flunked out/went home to Bratislava/broke his knee cap/etc....
- HILLYBILLY BALL!!!! 304!!!!!

 

[caliherd]

Just because you cover your ears and say no advantages doesn’t make it truth. Speaking of childish You are literally the most childish poster on this board. You have been shown by me, Rifle, Banker, Random and a billion other people the advantages we have. They are real not imaginary child. Facilities, fan base, history, name recognition (there was a movie made about our program that literally plays every weekend usually 3 to 4 times. Lastly our ability to take unlimited non qualifiers is a HUGE advantage. It allows us to compete with some if the biggest names in the country due to the fact rather than having to go the JC route they can immediately come to Marshall. So please captain head in the sand tell me the disadvantages Marshall has compared to our fellow conference mates.

You are literally wrong about 90% of the things you say but you think presenting it from some arrogant know it all way of posting will make people not realize how FOS you are.

Lastly everything you criticize the basketball team for goes double for the football team. Consistently underachieve, blow out losses even at home, one championship in a conference we should dominate. Literally everything you say applies to the football program. So do your typical lah, lah, lah, I have my hands over my ears so I don’t hear anything denial every time someone completely tears a part any of your silly diatribes.

 

[W-S HerdFan]

AS L O N G A S H E W A N T S T O B E .....

 

[The Real SamC]

Facilities, fan base, history, name recognition (there was a movie made about our program that literally plays every weekend usually 3 to 4 times. Lastly our ability to take unlimited non qualifiers is a HUGE advantage. It allows us to compete with some if the biggest names in the country due to the fact rather than having to go the JC route they can immediately come to Marshall.

You tried. Most of the childlike, childish “Marshall is supposed to win because its Marshall” posters do not. I will give you that.

I spotted you facilities (Thanks MIKE, best AD ever), and fan base. And History, for what its worth.

So the best you can come up with is a movie made when a current recruit was in middle school. And this entirely fictional “props” myth.

The idea that some kid plays at Marshall because he saw an old movie at 2 AM is silly.

But on to the “props” myth. There are two easy facts relative to this. First, is anybody who thinks that ANY program in ANY league is not totally cheating at academics and academic eligibility, intake and ongoing, is naive beyond all repair. If you honestly think, save Army, Navy, and Air Force, that half the team at any college could get in to those schools on actual academic merit, and could stay eligible ongoing, you just don’t know what you are talking about.

But, more importantly, we compete with “some of the biggest names in the country” because we take props.

List please.

Actually, MU is in a blood feud death match with 13 other like minded institutions. MU, one of the smallest public DI schools in the country, grossly underfunded and hated by our own state government, doing more with less.

And we are winning.

We Are Marshall.

Go Herd.

 

[GoHerdMarshallYes]

Dude you and your brother in bullsht Sam are so full of crap. Doc is about to begin his 11th year coaching Marshall making close to a million bucks a year. He has been mediocre his entire career including 2014 when he played a completely non P5 schedule with one of the best QBs and running backs we have ever had and still didn’t go undefeated because we lost to a 500 conference mate on our own field. Then we squeaked by a suspension depleted La Tech team at home to win our only championship during Docs 10 years.

Yet with even having every advantage over our conference mates other than location we have won 1 championship. A horrible record vs 500 and above schools and against P5s even on our own field, a coach who has had some of the worst losses in the history of our stadium many to fellow G5 schools.
Yet with all of that he is not even close to being in the hot seat and is about to start his 11th year as HC. At an average of just 700K a year which I know he makes more than that but at 700 K a year he has made at least 7 million dollars in salary alone in his career at Marshall which doesn’t include endorsements etc. We should all be that crucified.

To finish I think Dan is very mediocre. The CIT championship means nothing to me. He also in my book dampened his NCAA win by getting blown out in the next round by WVU. He’s had entirely too many blow out losses for my taste especially at home. Toledo and Charleston this year as an example. He continues to recruit projects especially euros and he did a pitiful job in preparing for losing 2 of the best players we have had in our history. Our foul shooting continues to be horrible and this year on a program that’s Chuck it up 100 times a game and now we can’t shoot.

On this board and others I have seen plenty of criticism of Dan. Why you think he gets a pass is laughable. Even the defenders of Dan acknowledge his short comings. But they also understand that San operates with 10 times less resources than football and he has only been doing it 6 seasons not 10. He also gets a pass for winning our only NCAA game in the history of our program. That was only 2 seasons ago. I will guarantee you this if Marshall continues to have a bad season like we are having now and we follow it up with a bad season next year I guarantee you there will be calls for Dans head. But you and Sam will bury your Doc worshiping heads in the sand and won’t notice it.

Where did I say Doc was somehow amazing? I agree with anyone that he's significantly underachieved while being here. Thats where myself and goddamn Sam are different. I disagree with him regarding Doc's real achievements.

While I presume you don't speak for the majority, but if you do, you completely prove you are full of shit as I have said people downplay 2014's football achievements when arguing about basketball.
If you wish to go down that road, MU's basketball team was so badly blown out by UVA they essentially put their waterboy in.
In all of sports, I don't recall that EVER happening...unless it was a Make A Wish, but this certainly was not the case. Dan has lost more OOC games to terrible teams and beatable ones than he has won.
Dan has monumentally failed to beat a P5 school consistently and even with our greatest player ever, getting completely silenced in the process of trying.

The title of this thread, if it were about Doc, would be absolutely shredded by you and others.
This MU basketball team simply sucks right now. They just got beaten by FAU quite badly...no injuries and no newcomers to really speak of...this is a complete team and they simply cannot win.
Amazingly, I agree with you about the CIT and honestly, there's probably a deeper reason for even having taken that tournament.
But to be all bent out of shape for people calling out a coach who supposedly is amazing and hasn't been showing it, proves a ton of biased opinions still exist...and I'm fine with that as long as you're more honest with yourself about it.

 

[W-S HerdFan]

Maybe it would help to list the all-time winningest coaches in MU basketball history.

Cam Henderson - career record 362-159 W% .695
Really such an outlier, he should almost be in a category by himself. Coached more games than the next 2 1/2 coaches combined. Coached in an era when many of our grandfathers were young men.

Rick Huckaby - career record 129-59 W% .686
Coached 3 NCAA tourney teams in only 6 seasons. Beat WVU while he & his staff wore tuxedos. Fired under murky circumstances - very little criticism is sent his way on this board, many of whom weren't even born when he was here.

Greg White - career record 115-84 W% .578 Most successful (to date) alumnus to coach the Herd. Had moderate success, didn't have extensive coaching experience when he was hired. A bad shot/air ball//put back in Gsbo by UTC kept him out of the Dance.

Dan D'Antoni - career record 105-89 W% .541 Only coach in Marshall history to win a game in the NCAA tourney. Has stabilized the program, and achieved 4 consecutive winning seasons for the 1st time since Huck won 5 in a row from '83-'88. Coached his teams to 2 conference finals in the last 3 seasons. Criticized for his coaching resume', philosophy & recruiting ability, he nevertheless will most likely move past White & Huckaby into the #2 spot all-time by the end of the '20-'21 season. Famous for Hillbilly Ball, the 304 boys, Danalytics & aw shucks colloquialisms. Oldest HC in modern history @72 years young.