Does it matter?

[ohio herd]

Since C-USA is a one bid conference in basketball currently does it matter if we have a hard OOC or an easy OOC? It seems to me that it really doesn't even help with the NIT either. This year we had only 2 teams play in the top 2 tourneys. I DON"T have a strong opinion one way or the other. I remember when I was a student in the 80"s during the Huck years we never played all that hard of a schedule but we made it to both tourneys several times. Just something to engage one another with some conversation.

 

[The Real SamC]

If your goal is to make the NCAA, you have to win CUSA. I do not see any way CUSA ever gets 2 bids ever again. So if you accept that, then, obviously, it does not matter what you do OOC at all.

NIT might be a little different. I could see a couple of CUSAs in that deal if you had a solid OOC record and got upset in the conf. But, so what. It is a losers' tourney for losers.

But really, if you are going to get any interest in the team at all, you have to play somebody reasonabably good, both at home and on TV. The Donnie Jones (whatever happened to him? HA HA HA) plan of nothing victories vs. nothing teams just yields empty seats and no TV games.

 

[TwolfHerdfan]

Do we now hold the record for number of years out of the NCAA? Frankly, I just don't see that changing soon. Not a shot at DD at all; I just don't.

 

[Herdmeister]

Do we now hold the record for number of years out of the NCAA? Frankly, I just don't see that changing soon. Not a shot at DD at all; I just don't.

Middle Tennessee won our conference. We split with them during the season. To me, that means we aren't very far from being there.

 

[The Real SamC]

Do we now hold the record for number of years out of the NCAA?

No. Among those who have ever been in the tournament, we are now 12th. Dartmouth (59) is the leader. Others "ahead" of us are Tennessee Tech, Bowling Green, Columbia, Rice, VMI, Duquesene, Furman, Toledump, Loyola of Chicago and Jacksonville. There are also 5 original DI members (Northwestern, Army, Citadel, St. Francis of NY, and William & Mary) and many dozens of subsuquent members, including members in 87, New Hampshire, Maine, Denver, Texas-Rio Grande, Stetson, Cal-Irvine, Grambling, Bethune-Cookman, Maryland-Eastern Shore, Youngstown, Western Illinois, Chicago State and Hartford, that have never made the tournament ever.

 

[herdalicious]

Iona has been to the NCAAs 7 times since 1998. We pasted them by 20 in an early season tune-up game in 2011. Making the NCAA tournament isn't an absolute determinant of a program's overall quality. Marshall's in that sweet spot where we're too big to play in a fishbowl with an automatic bid, but too small to rise above the glut of mid-majors.

This iteration of C-USA might be weak enough for us to win, though, and then we'll go dancing as a 15 seed. It won't mean we'll be good the following year, though.

 

[Gochneaur645]

In most any year, the out-of-conference schedule won't really matter at all because making the NCAA or NIT will depend solely on winning the conference tourney or regular season title, respectively.

However, I don't see how having a tough out-of-conference schedule can ever hurt. We might as well schedule tough on the off-chance that we have a good enough team to get some national attention despite playing in the 20th best conference in the country.

 

[cottrell75]

Middle Tennessee won our conference. We split with them during the season. To me, that means we aren't very far from being there.

Middle TN loses like 3 seniors. UAB's coach is gone, new coach will have some hiccups. Stansbury will take a few years to get his players in place...2016-2017 has Marshall written all over in in C-USA basketball...especially if we get the transfer that's being speculated.

 

[TheGreenhouseEffect]

Play as tough a sked as you can play provided it's home and home over 2 seasons.

 

[Sean Hammond]

If we win in the OOC, we could make an argument for getting in the NCAA tournament if we don't win the CUSA tournament. I'm sure we'll get left out, but at least we would be in the conversation. Scheduling tough opponents instead of victories absolutely matters.

 

[TheGreenhouseEffect]

I'll be curious what kind of stats we put up next year. When your hanging 100 plus every game and most teams are in the 65 to 75 deliberate drive the lane points style, that might get some attention nationally.

 

[oldeherd]

Play as tough a sked as you can play provided it's home and home over 2 seasons.

Easier said than done, GreenhouseEffect. Last time we had such luck was the home and home series with Penn State and South Carolina that Mark Cline obtained during Herrion's tenure. We got both home games last season, Danny's first. Now we don't even have WVU anymore in "neutral" Charleston. UK won't talk to us, unless its in Lexington or maybe Louisville. Same with Ohio State, will play in Columbus only. Next closest power team is probably VA Tech, bet Hokie coach Buzz Williams won't even answer calls from MU about home and home games; probably won't even want to play us at all. So who do we get to play in Huntington? Cincinnati wouldn't play us here before, but agreed to play in Charleston CC; Dayton in past has been approached, but apparently no. Pitt has a new coach, Stallings from Vandy. We played them in Nashville while Herrion was here. Just will be surprised if DD and Coach Cline, who still does most of scheduling chores, can get any quality "name" opponents to the HC.

 

[andy4theherd]

I'll be curious what kind of stats we put up next year. When your hanging 100 plus every game and most teams are in the 65 to 75 deliberate drive the lane points style, that might get some attention nationally.

truth here...

remember Loyola Marymount 1990? of course you do. they averaged 139 points a game, and EVERYBODY knew about them (even before Hank Gathers died).

 

[herdit44]

truth here...

remember Loyola Marymount 1990? of course you do. they averaged 139 points a game, and EVERYBODY knew about them (even before Hank Gathers died).

watching us this year, i couldn't imagine playing any faster, yet that's exactly what lmu did in their day. our best offensive outputs were right around 100 points, or just over. statistically 1990 was their best year, they averaged 122.4 points per game, they scored 149 in a 40 minute game against michigan in the ncaa tournament. they were held under 100 points just 3 times (91, 99, 99), but scored 125 or more points 14 times...just unreal.

 

[Herdmeister]

watching us this year, i couldn't imagine playing any faster, yet that's exactly what lmu did in their day. our best offensive outputs were right around 100 points, or just over. statistically 1990 was their best year, they averaged 122.4 points per game, they scored 149 in a 40 minute game against michigan in the ncaa tournament. they were held under 100 points just 3 times (91, 99, 99), but scored 125 or more points 14 times...just unreal.

West Liberty has averaged around or slightly above 100 per game for the last few years. If we can play like we practice everyday, I could well see us averaging over 100 ppg.

 

[BleedsGreen33]

If we win in the OOC, we could make an argument for getting in the NCAA tournament if we don't win the CUSA tournament. I'm sure we'll get left out, but at least we would be in the conversation. Scheduling tough opponents instead of victories absolutely matters.

CUSA doesn't carry that much respect. We could win a tough OoC and still not get in because of the way CUSA is viewed by those making the decisions. Remember the year we made the CUSA Tournament Final? We were the highest RPI team not to get in the tournament. We had a higher RPI than several teams, including the one up north that year.

We could go undefeated in the OoC slate, contend for the conference regular season title, and if we don't win the conference tournament we end up on the outside looking in. You see it all the time with smaller conferences that aren't viewed as strong conferences. Teams have these magical seasons, knock off someone they weren't supposed to in their OoC, then not make the dance because they fell short in their conference tournament.

I don't think we should completely abandon our scheduling philosophy but we don't need to be seeking out games with teams we have less than a 50/50 shot at because in the end it does nothing for us. The only way we start to make CUSA a multiple bid league is if our teams get to the tournament and produce.

For example Marshall wins the CUSA Tournament like 3-4 years in a row and we advance to the 2nd-3rd rounds each time. Then the committee will give us the benefit of the doubt if we do not win the conference tournament but have say a 24-28 win season with a win over a Power conference team or two.

Until we do something like the committee will always look at us like, "well even though they did have strong OoC their conference slate just doesn't stack up against insert power conference school."

The only other option is for the next several seasons this entire conference starts making noise in the OoC slate. Can't just be one season with a couple of us stealing a game or two. This entire conference has to start taking out power conference and top RPI teams on the regular or they are not going to respect anything this conference does.

The harsh reality is that there are just too many bad teams in this conference for anything short of conference tournament championship to get your ticket punched.

 

[TwolfHerdfan]

UAB loses just one player. I don't think WKU loses many either. Regardless of schedule, DD has to teach some defense and find someone to replace Kelly's production.

 

[herdit44]

UAB loses just one player. I don't think WKU loses many either. Regardless of schedule, DD has to teach some defense and find someone to replace Kelly's production.

uab lost one so far, also lost their coach, could lead to more defections, plus you never know what a new system will do to a team, even an experienced team.

as far as wku goes, i saw if the 3 currently suspended players aren't back next year, they'll return 0 scholarship guards...

 

[Sean Hammond]

CUSA doesn't carry that much respect. We could win a tough OoC and still not get in because of the way CUSA is viewed by those making the decisions. Remember the year we made the CUSA Tournament Final? We were the highest RPI team not to get in the tournament. We had a higher RPI than several teams, including the one up north that year.

We could go undefeated in the OoC slate, contend for the conference regular season title, and if we don't win the conference tournament we end up on the outside looking in. You see it all the time with smaller conferences that aren't viewed as strong conferences. Teams have these magical seasons, knock off someone they weren't supposed to in their OoC, then not make the dance because they fell short in their conference tournament.

I don't think we should completely abandon our scheduling philosophy but we don't need to be seeking out games with teams we have less than a 50/50 shot at because in the end it does nothing for us. The only way we start to make CUSA a multiple bid league is if our teams get to the tournament and produce.

For example Marshall wins the CUSA Tournament like 3-4 years in a row and we advance to the 2nd-3rd rounds each time. Then the committee will give us the benefit of the doubt if we do not win the conference tournament but have say a 24-28 win season with a win over a Power conference team or two.

Until we do something like the committee will always look at us like, "well even though they did have strong OoC their conference slate just doesn't stack up against insert power conference school."

The only other option is for the next several seasons this entire conference starts making noise in the OoC slate. Can't just be one season with a couple of us stealing a game or two. This entire conference has to start taking out power conference and top RPI teams on the regular or they are not going to respect anything this conference does.

The harsh reality is that there are just too many bad teams in this conference for anything short of conference tournament championship to get your ticket punched.

Well, it's not like we have a lot of choices. We're doing what you suggest. We scheduled Tennessee & Maryland this year to go with wvu. Our OOC schedule was ranked in the top 25 of OOC schedules...out of 351 teams.



Basketball is different than football. We can schedule a lot of good small local schools like Moorehead, Akron, Ohio, JMU, Dayton, VCU, ETSU, EKU, Evansville, etc. and get a respectable SOS. It's hard to schedule tough in football because it will leave you with more road games than home games...and since football pays the bills, we need as many home games as possible. I like Dan's approach to scheduling in basketball. We'll play anybody. Because at the end of the day, what we do in the conference tournament will decide our destiny anyway. But if we happen to schedule tough and have an incredible year, our program only earns respect. I just don't see a downside to scheduling hard.

 

[oldeherd]

Well, it's not like we have a lot of choices. We're doing what you suggest. We scheduled Tennessee & Maryland this year to go with wvu. Our OOC schedule was ranked in the top 25 of OOC schedules...out of 351 teams.



Basketball is different than football. We can schedule a lot of good small local schools like Moorehead, Akron, Ohio, JMU, Dayton, VCU, ETSU, EKU, Evansville, etc. and get a respectable SOS. It's hard to schedule tough in football because it will leave you with more road games than home games...and since football pays the bills, we need as many home games as possible. I like Dan's approach to scheduling in basketball. We'll play anybody. Because at the end of the day, what we do in the conference tournament will decide our destiny anyway. But if we happen to schedule tough and have an incredible year, our program only earns respect. I just don't see a downside to scheduling hard.

Well, just looking at this year's schedule, we were 4-9 with a strong OOC schedule, 16-15 overall in regular season. If HAD MU WON ALL OOC games, we would have been 25-6 in regular season. We went 1-1 in Con. tourney, which would have meant overall record was 26-7. Now had we made it to conference finals and lost record would have been 27-7. With OOC wins over ranked Maryland, WVU, plus wins over strong JMU (2 games), strong Morehead, Akron and Ohio U, as well as SEC Tennessee, the 13-0 OOC record, including impressive ROAD wins, would have probably gotten the HERD into the "last in", or, at worst, the "last out" category re: The Big Dance. Can't believe with said record, Herd would not have been a "lock" for the NIT, perhaps even with a home game!!!

 

[CarolinaHerdZilla22]

Dan did not come to Huntington to NOT GET The HERD into the Big Dance. ROME WAS NOT BUILT IN A DAY. I realize there are still "some skeptics" toward Dan's ability to return Marshall to our Glory Years. Look what he & his coaching staff achieved in two years. Excitement & Attendance improved as did the QUALITY of basketball. Folks talked HERD Hoops for the first time in years. MARSHALL should have won more games than they did (started a dismal 0-6). It is what it is and History can not be changed. Dan's contract is weighted on Marshall making it to post season play. I can not speak for Dan...but I will bet $1000 he is not working in Huntington for FREE! He has expenses (wife, daughter, NEW house to pay for).

MTSU was really hot going into Birmingham and I did not see any other CUSA team winning the tournament. MTSU knocked off Michigan State [1 seed] and was eliminated by the team (Syracuse) that will lose tonight to our TAR HEELS...for Pete's sake. Old Dominion won the newly created Vegas tournament. The HERD split with MTSU (won in Huntington, 82-66....lost there by 9 points) & defeated the Monarchs twice.

I support a school can "get healthy" in basketball really quickly. It only takes finding guys like KELLEY to prove that. Greg Marshall (Wichita State) has proven what can be accomplished with less than McDonald's All Americans. VCU...Butler...Buffalo----Austin Peay....Yale....Stephen F. Austin.....Why Not MARSHALL.

Being in CUSA hurts our TV exposure. WINNING & SCORING lots of points gets folks attention. I believe next year will be a banner year for MARSHALL.

What can HERD Fans do to help? Accept the fact (although difficult for me often) that we are members of a conference that craps in the bed when it comes to "The Controlling, ESPN." Folks tune in for basketball & football to ESPN because they are easy to find. Just think how many non cable watchers in America have missed a lot of this year's March Madness due to not having TNT, TBS, and other stations that PURCHASED the rights. GET BEHIND & HELP TO "BRING ON THE HERD". Purchase tickets, invest into basketball clothing, Help MARSHALL become known nationally for Basketball too.

The Basketball Program Train is boarding...don't get left at the station!

HerdZilla22 (Sweeney) in Charlotte
31

 

[THUNDERGround]

uab lost one so far, also lost their coach, could lead to more defections, plus you never know what a new system will do to a team, even an experienced team.

as far as wku goes, i saw if the 3 currently suspended players aren't back next year, they'll return 0 scholarship guards...

True, UAB lost their head coach, but the hired the assistant who, by the way, the players wanted. The system is in place and they will be extremely tough again next year.

 

[Herdmeister]

True, UAB lost their head coach, but the hired the assistant who, by the way, the players wanted. The system is in place and they will be extremely tough again next year.

UAB will be the team to beat again next year.

 

[THUNDERGround]

UAB will be the team to beat again next year.

Agree. I think there might be even more parity than this year if UTEP, Charlotte, and WKU can get it in gear..