I see you've changed your wording ever so slightly.
None of us expect to win every game. None of us expect to win a conference title every year. It's nothing more than deflection when you, Perks and Coach Stowers say this nonsense.
Fire Doc
- Thread starter Herdfaninnoke
- Start date
I see you've changed your wording ever so slightly.
None of us expect to win every game. None of us expect to win a conference title every year. It's nothing more than deflection when you, Perks and Coach Stowers say this nonsense.
I don't think we should win every game. I said Doc should be around a .750 coach, particularly in conference. I think we should win a title more than once, or even twice in a 10 year period. I think we should strive for Top 25 ranking and try to get to a new Years day bowl.
Is that hard to understand? It is called expectations and not wanting to be mediocre.
Right. Not “every” game. Just, well, every game.
We should win, because we should.
Childlike superfandom, turned inward on itself and thus rotten.
We should win, because we should.
Childlike superfandom, turned inward on itself and thus rotten.
Sam you have been shown a million times the advantages that Marshall has in football when it comes to CUSA. By several different people.
The fact that you throw your hands over your ears and go blah blah blah I’m not listening does not mean that plenty of reasons have not been given to you.
The fact that we have went from one of the premier G5 programs in the country to one who gets crushed by Cincinnati at home and to make matters worse the majority of our fan base expected it.
The fact that you throw your hands over your ears and go blah blah blah I’m not listening does not mean that plenty of reasons have not been given to you.
The fact that we have went from one of the premier G5 programs in the country to one who gets crushed by Cincinnati at home and to make matters worse the majority of our fan base expected it.
Actually, no one has ever listed any legitimate reasons why MU is just “supposed” to win, most all the time. Yes, we have as good a facility set up as any team, thanks to our AWESOME AD, better local media than many teams, thanks to there being nothing else going on in this backwater market, and a solid fan base. That is it.
What we have is a group of people who really should get into pro wrestling. In ‘raslin the “face” (good guy, the guy you are for) always wins. It is a simplistic melodrama for the simple. And it is fake. In the real world of real sports, it is hard. Everyone is trying. No one is “accepting mediocrity”. Meaningless phrases like “outwork the other guys” and “give 110%” are meaningless. Childlike superfandom that the “good guys” should win all the time, be it the generally positive (from their perspective) non-alumni hilljack “usens is awesome” WVU type, or the poisonous turned inward and thus rotten type shown by the anti-Doc crowd, is understood to be the thoughts of children, and ignored by the adults.
What we have is a group of people who really should get into pro wrestling. In ‘raslin the “face” (good guy, the guy you are for) always wins. It is a simplistic melodrama for the simple. And it is fake. In the real world of real sports, it is hard. Everyone is trying. No one is “accepting mediocrity”. Meaningless phrases like “outwork the other guys” and “give 110%” are meaningless. Childlike superfandom that the “good guys” should win all the time, be it the generally positive (from their perspective) non-alumni hilljack “usens is awesome” WVU type, or the poisonous turned inward and thus rotten type shown by the anti-Doc crowd, is understood to be the thoughts of children, and ignored by the adults.
Participation trophy era I assume
Don't take this the wrong way, but GAWDAMN you are retarded. You don't listen to shit anyone says unless it's what you want to hear.
This doesn’t even make any sense. Seriously I don’t even know what you are trying to say.
22 years after moving to FBS, Marshall is now in a conference that is equal to the Conference that we were in when we first came back to FBS. Both conferences sucked and both were filled with teams ranked in the 100s. After all of the success that we had when we were in that original bad conference, we have since built nicer facilities than we had then, according to the recruiting experts we are bringing in a better player out of the gate in terms of stars etc. yet with all of that 22 years later and we are in an equally bad conference, yet we don’t win this same conference more than once a decade and we are supposed to be happy.
We have better facilities, better tradition, better brand name better almost everything with the exception of location.
Yet with all of that we have fallen off the map in terms of national prominence. We rarely win the conference or even our division. We are consistently losing home games even to fellow G5 teams. We have had some total thrashings at home over the last several years that aren’t just coming from the P5s that have visited the Joan. Nobody is expecting Marshall to go undefeated every year nor are we expecting Marshall to beat the upper echelon of college football (the Bamas, Clemson Ohio State etc) but we should have an expectation of not getting bulldozed by mediocre to bad P5s like Va Tech last year or NC State at home and we actually should win some of those games. We also definitely shouldn’t be getting stomped by Cincinnati or any other G5 at home either.
Basically mine and a few others expectations and honestly those numbers are dwindling in by the juice box orange slice fan base that we have now where we give everybody a trophy is that we dominate the conference that we are in now, and not get blown out at home by fellow G5’s or P5s. I don’t think it’s too much to ask.
winning championships every three years or four and winning .750 conference is winning every game? OK, sorry to set standards.
I don't disagree with you but I really think that the main difference is that we have never been able to recruit another Chad or Byron type QB.Cato was close I would say and when he reached his jr and sr years it showed up with us playing for a title in 2 of those years and winning one.I agree BP is a better coach as well. However, IMO Chad and Byron level talent under center would have won us a few more titles I might be wrong but thats my view.
He just throws out sh*t until someone takes the bait.
You expected us to be in the ACC, perhaps? Big 10?
We have good facilities. Our “tradition”, to the extent that it matters, is one decade, 20 years ago, nothing before or since. Our “brand name recognition” is non-existent.
But, I get it. You want to dominate a conference that you consider to be garbage. Nothing that ever happens will matter.
Wrestling. I tell you look into it.
Get better coaches and admin who care might be a good start.
To be the man, you have beat the man-Ric Flair
Ahh, so THAT is the secret. You have to CARE!!!!! Thanks. Didn’t know that. So the reason that I don’t have a Harvard PhD, didn’t get into the Astronaut Corps, and didn’t break the 2 hour Marathon record, is not that I simply didn’t make it, but I didn’t CARE!!!! If I had CARED, I could have “given 110%” and “refused to accept mediocrity” and such other 5th grade coach-speak.
In the adult world, we understand that everybody involved in every capacity at MU athletics, and at EVERY OTHER school’s athletics, cares.
In the adult world, we understand that everybody involved in every capacity at MU athletics, and at EVERY OTHER school’s athletics, cares.
It's just a matter of realizing that Sam's alter ego is Ivan Drago. It would take a Rocky IV type of pummeling to get through that thick skull !!
Last edited:
You may beat the smartest man in the world in a debate, but you'll never beat a retard.
.750 in conference will not get us very many division titles. That's 6-2, and that isn't gonna get it done. .750 overall is 9-3, which we are on track to hit, but according to some that's not good enough.
I was being fair and they got on me. That being said you are going to have some years that are slightly off. I get that. Hence, .750 average. But, you have to win division titles and get to the championship game.
One year you might be 6-2 and finish second. But, more than not we should win the division.
Marshall should expect that. Tell the coach, here is your expectation. Just like when you are at Ohio State you have to beat Michigan. When you are at Michigan you have to beat Ohio State. When you are at Auburn you do have to beat Alabama ever now and again.
When you are at Marshall we expect to win the conference more than once a decade and frankly more than twice a decade. That is the expectation. Don't coach here if you can't meet or don't think you can do it. We are not handing out lifer contracts.
Truly childlike.
EVERY COACH EVERY WHERE IN EVERY SPORT IS EXPECTED TO WIN.
Meaningless childlike phrases like “pull out all the stops” and “give 110%” and “expect to win” and “accept nothing less than the best” and other such ho-ha are in the movies.
In the real, adult, world, you have long complex difficult expert operation, be it a football team, a basketball team, or a factory. In the movies, you tell the coach that you “expect to win”.
EVERY COACH EVERY WHERE IN EVERY SPORT IS EXPECTED TO WIN.
Meaningless childlike phrases like “pull out all the stops” and “give 110%” and “expect to win” and “accept nothing less than the best” and other such ho-ha are in the movies.
In the real, adult, world, you have long complex difficult expert operation, be it a football team, a basketball team, or a factory. In the movies, you tell the coach that you “expect to win”.
Well, tell us what should the expectation be of the Marshall University head football coach? There has to be some standard or expectation?
Of course the expectation is to win. Your problem Is you have AAC envy or football anhedonia or whatever you want to call it. NOTHING we do you consider to be any accomplishment, because you consider MU to be vastly superior to every team we play, for reasons neither you nor anyone else can state (because they don’t exist, of course). You just don’t understand enough about football to understand that we are in a conference in which we will face competitive teams every week.
So you set yourself up for disappointment, and since what you want to see will RARELY actually happen, nor would you consider it relevant if it did, need to move on to something else. You also set Doc, and by implication Mike, up for “failure” because you consider their jobs to be “easy”. They are hard.
So you set yourself up for disappointment, and since what you want to see will RARELY actually happen, nor would you consider it relevant if it did, need to move on to something else. You also set Doc, and by implication Mike, up for “failure” because you consider their jobs to be “easy”. They are hard.
That's why the stadium remains 2/3rds empty.
Take off the blinders, Sammy.
Is there such a thing? Seems like numbers don't matter at times and this measurement is subjective.
If MU isn't winning the conference then should 8-10 wins a season suffice?
But even those are contested because, "this conference sucks."
Even when MU beat WKU, regardless of how, it wasn't that MU won at all.
More effort has been put into discussing that MU should have lost that game than just seeing that winning was the result.
Goddamn Sam's rants on wvu did have me thinking of how opposite the fanbases are...and which one really is beneficial for a program.
On one end you have a bunch of dumbass hilljack morons who never took academics seriously attending wvu...along with in-state WV residents.
But these idiots have been force fed to support literally anything they can find.
"wvu didn't nearly lose to an FCS team...dem mountainairs beat a very good FCS team!!"
"wvu got smoked by LSU on their own turf on primetime football" "No, look at the offensive yards they put up!!! wvu's offense is insanely good!!"
"Look, I'm optimistic...wvu's is a 9.5% percent chance to beat Baylor!!! Upset city for dem bearz!"
Then you have somewhat level headed WV residents who actually read into their team...albeit, a little too much...because they look into literally every detail of the team to find something to worry about...combined that with a HC they don't like and its poison for fandom.
"MU won 10 games this season! Woohoo!"
"Uhm...those wins were against a schedule ranked in the lower quadrant of the FBS...we really didn't beat anyone."
MU wins CUSA in 2014...
"Well, if you look at the wins and losses of the teams MU played and the ones prior to the departure, MU really isn't that good ya know."
"I can't believe how far MU has fallen...that we could have lost to WKU, and 1st in the east, if the refs paid better attention to MU's mistakes."
It'd be nice to be in the middle of those two fan perspectives.
Won't happen though.
The problem is, of course, no one pointing out JH's short comings is actually saying this. In fact, if you had average comprehension skills, you would see the context of the comments points directly to a program who should be dominating a lower quadrant FBS level, but isn't...
Sam, since either your memory is short or you just missed it, here again are Marshall's advantages over the vast majority of CUSA teams when it comes to football.
1. Facilities. We have a modern, dedicated, football weight training facility. We have one of the premium indoor practice facilities in the country, let alone the conference. We have updated, state of the art (for G5 anyway) locker rooms and meeting spaces. Our stadium, while dated, is a great facility for the players (a little less so for the fans).
2. Our administration has put no limits on the number of non qualifiers we can take. This is a huge advantage on the recruiting trail. Many schools in our conference take none, a few take very limited numbers. Many of our offensive and defensive starters/best players were initially NQers. The NQs are how we consistently have the top, or near top, recruiting class in the conference each year. Huge advantage for Marshall.
3. We have the nationally recognized HELP program which works with the players to get them, and keep them, eligible. While it's not just for athletes, we are the only school in the conference with this type program.
4. The fan base. Even with our attendance not being great, we are averaging more than 5,000 more people at home games than any other team in the east division, which are the schools we have to beat to get to the championship game. Any recruit who attends a Marshall home game and then a WKU, FIU, etc. game will see the support level is much higher here than at the other schools. That helps with recruiting. Additionally, we,lead,CUSA in ticket revenue from football and also donations for football. The fans at Marshall provide more resources than any other conference team (ODU is slightly ahead overall, but more is basketball driven there).
5. Tradition. Quick, name the best players to come out of other east division teams, and the level of football fame they had after college. Quick, besides Marshall and WKU (for a brief stint a few years back) name any east division team that has ever even received a top 25 vote, let alone end a year ranked. Quick, name the other east division teams with 10 or more bowl wins. How about 5 or more. Heck, how many of them have been to 5 bowl games?
The real question is, what advantage do we not have?
1. Facilities. We have a modern, dedicated, football weight training facility. We have one of the premium indoor practice facilities in the country, let alone the conference. We have updated, state of the art (for G5 anyway) locker rooms and meeting spaces. Our stadium, while dated, is a great facility for the players (a little less so for the fans).
2. Our administration has put no limits on the number of non qualifiers we can take. This is a huge advantage on the recruiting trail. Many schools in our conference take none, a few take very limited numbers. Many of our offensive and defensive starters/best players were initially NQers. The NQs are how we consistently have the top, or near top, recruiting class in the conference each year. Huge advantage for Marshall.
3. We have the nationally recognized HELP program which works with the players to get them, and keep them, eligible. While it's not just for athletes, we are the only school in the conference with this type program.
4. The fan base. Even with our attendance not being great, we are averaging more than 5,000 more people at home games than any other team in the east division, which are the schools we have to beat to get to the championship game. Any recruit who attends a Marshall home game and then a WKU, FIU, etc. game will see the support level is much higher here than at the other schools. That helps with recruiting. Additionally, we,lead,CUSA in ticket revenue from football and also donations for football. The fans at Marshall provide more resources than any other conference team (ODU is slightly ahead overall, but more is basketball driven there).
5. Tradition. Quick, name the best players to come out of other east division teams, and the level of football fame they had after college. Quick, besides Marshall and WKU (for a brief stint a few years back) name any east division team that has ever even received a top 25 vote, let alone end a year ranked. Quick, name the other east division teams with 10 or more bowl wins. How about 5 or more. Heck, how many of them have been to 5 bowl games?
The real question is, what advantage do we not have?
Sam - if a simple majority is 51, what number is a vast majority? Serious ? - hoping for a serious answer.....
Vast majority is, IMHO, about 95%. This board has, IMHO, most all of the nay-sayers. CUSA sucks. The baseball park isn’t grand enough. I don’t wanna play Ohio, I wanna play Ohio State. Blah, blah, blah.
I tell ya, pro wrestling. Look into it.
As to the supposed “advantages.
Facilities. Stipulated and previously stated. Thank Mike. Great job.
Academics and the HELP program. Anybody who believes that EVERY college in Div I does not have rigged admissions, fake classes, and the like, and not just for athletes, but for the wealthy (Aunt Becky’s kids, for example) is naive. There has not been a college turn down a kid for academics in 50 years.
Fan base. We have good fans. Some CUSA members (directional Floridas, UNCC, etc.) fund their programs off student fees from huge enrollments. Even.
Tradition. Who earned a third to half of the tradition you named? John Doc Holiday. One heck of a coach. Thanks. But tradition to an 18 year old poor kid from Florida? Meaningless. The smart ones see a chance to get a useful degree for free, the dumb ones just want 4 years of hots and cots. There is no player on the MU team, in any sport, save a few natives, who prayed “please God, let me grow up to play for Marshall University in Huntington, West Virginia” when he was 10 years old. Notre Dame, yes. Texas, yes. Alabama, yes. Marshall, no.
I tell ya, pro wrestling. Look into it.
As to the supposed “advantages.
Facilities. Stipulated and previously stated. Thank Mike. Great job.
Academics and the HELP program. Anybody who believes that EVERY college in Div I does not have rigged admissions, fake classes, and the like, and not just for athletes, but for the wealthy (Aunt Becky’s kids, for example) is naive. There has not been a college turn down a kid for academics in 50 years.
Fan base. We have good fans. Some CUSA members (directional Floridas, UNCC, etc.) fund their programs off student fees from huge enrollments. Even.
Tradition. Who earned a third to half of the tradition you named? John Doc Holiday. One heck of a coach. Thanks. But tradition to an 18 year old poor kid from Florida? Meaningless. The smart ones see a chance to get a useful degree for free, the dumb ones just want 4 years of hots and cots. There is no player on the MU team, in any sport, save a few natives, who prayed “please God, let me grow up to play for Marshall University in Huntington, West Virginia” when he was 10 years old. Notre Dame, yes. Texas, yes. Alabama, yes. Marshall, no.
Thanks. Sounds about right (95%). I think this discussion is a microcosm of our society these days: very polarized and stubbornly committed to your side of the argument. It’s destined to be this way in politics and Marshall coaching staffs as far as the A.I. can see.......
“Most all” the naysayers are on this board yet ticket sales and attendance are so bad this happens:
When’s the last time the ticket office offered chair back seats for $20? Are we giving them away with buckets of chicken next? Maybe bring a can of soup to get in?
And there we go. Ripping on the program you are a fan of and making fun of the price of tickets.
Well done man. Well done
Well done man. Well done
Anything that gets fans in the stadium is a positive at this point in the season. We know that historically attendance falls off for the last couple of home games. Why not cut the price? $40 for 2 tickets beats the hell out of $0 period. + beer, food and merchandise + we need those voices and hands clapping.....
Similar threads
