I called it. The General Lee is Gone!

[i am herdman]

This country has gone bat shi* crazy. This truly is a country of the offended and political correctness.

It is almost laughable now. The country is now a melting pot of political correctness.

What's next? The Brady Bunch is too white? Sanford and Son was racist. No more All in The Family reruns?
John Wayne used guns in his movies? Can't watch a HeeHaw rerun?

What is it, next?

Sometimes I think this is a joke or something.

Who is offended?

 

[ARandomHerdFan]

Oh no!

 

[WiiWii]

I assume that you are speaking of the "controversy" surrounding the confederate battle flag flying over the state capital of South Carolina?

Assuming that I am correct, I must say that I am amazed at how people do not understand how offensive that flag is.

If we start with the fact that that flag was the battle flag for an armed insurrection against the United States of America which had, at it's sole purpose, the preservation of a southern "way of life" that depended on the oppression, enslavement and dehumanization of an entire race of people.

Given that there is zero debate regarding this fact, how is it that this flag is NOT offensive?

Second, since the time of the end of the war, this flag has been used over and over and over by groups representing hate such as the KKK, white supremacist groups and on and on.

How is that this flag is NOT offensive?

I love (sarcastic) the argument that this flag stands for the rich history of the south and is a testament to the brave confederate soldiers who gave their lives for what it stood. Never mind that these same soldiers were fighting to preserve the social economic stucture that kept them making the money and holding the power and kept the blacks doing the work for nothing. But by all means, lets honor their memory... I say we should spit on their grave. They died for the wrong cause, they will forever lay on the wrong side of history and for that they do not deserve my respect, my honor of them or even my memory of them. They got what they deserved...

This is not about "political correctness", this is about doing what is right! That flag is offensive to many citizens of South Carolina...many of which are the decendants of slaves and deserve to decide what is offensive to them or is not...

Can you at least see that there is a really strong case here and stop just consuming Fox News propaganda?

PS. If you were not referring to this current debate (over the flag) then my apologies and I will retract this entire post.

 

[MichiganHerd]

MYTH - The War of 1861 - 1865 was fought over slavery.

FACT - Terribly untrue. The North fought the war over money. Plain and simple. When the South started Secession, Lincoln was asked, "Why not let the South go in peace?" To which he replied, "I can't let them go. Who would pay for the government?" Sensing total financial ruin for the North, Lincoln waged war on the South. The South fought the War to repel Northern aggression and invasion.

MYTH - Only Southerners owned slaves.

FACT - Entirely untrue. Many Northern civilians owned slaves. Prior to, during and even after the War Of Northern Aggression.

Surprisingly, to many history impaired individuals, most Union Generals and staff had slaves to serve them! William T. Sherman had many slaves that served him until well after the war was over and did not free them until late in 1865.

U.S. Grant also had several slaves, who were only freed after the 13th amendment in December of 1865. When asked why he didn't free his slaves earlier, Grant stated "Good help is so hard to come by these days."

Contrarily, Confederate General Robert E. Lee freed his slaves (which he never purchased - they were inherited) in 1862!!! Lee freed his slaves several years before the war was over, and considerably earlier than his Northern counterparts. And during the fierce early days of the war when the South was obliterating the Yankee armies!

Lastly, and most importantly, why did NORTHERN States outlaw slavery only AFTER the war was over? The so-called "Emancipation Proclamation" of Lincoln only gave freedom to slaves in the SOUTH! NOT in the North! This pecksniffery even went so far as to find the state of Delaware rejecting the 13th Amendment in December of 1865 and did not ratify it (13th Amendment / free the slaves) until 1901!

MYTH - The Confederate Battle Flag was flown on slave ships.

FACT - NONE of the flags of the Confederacy or Southern Nation ever flew over a slave ship. Nor did the South own or operate any slaves ships. The English, the Dutch and the Portugese brought slaves to this country, not the Southern Nation.

BUT, even more monumental, it is also very important to know and understand that Federal, Yankee, Union ships brought slaves to America! These ships were from the New England states, and their hypocrisy is atrocious.

These Federals were ones that ended up crying the loudest about slavery. But without their ships, many of the slaves would have never arrived here. They made countless fortunes on the delivery of slaves as well as the products madefrom raw materials such as cotton and tobacco in the South.

This is the problem with Yankee history History is overwhelmingly portrayed incorrectly by most of the Federal & Yankee books and media.

MYTH - The Confederate Battle Flag represented the Southern Nation.

FACT - Not true. While the Southern Battle flag was carried into battle, the Southern Nation had 3 different National flags during the course of the war.

The First National flag was changed due to a resemblance of the US flag.

The Second National flag was subsequently modified due to the similarity to a flag of truce.

The Third National flag was the adopted flag of the Confederacy.

The Confederate Battle Flag was never a National Flag of the Confederacy. It was carried into battle by several armies such as the Army Of Northen Virginia and the Army of Tennessee. Was also used as a Naval Jack by the Confederate Navy.

MYTH - The Confederate Battle Flag is known as the "Stars & Bars".

FACT - A common misconception. The First National Confederate Flag is correctly known as the "Stars & Bars". The Confederate Battle Flag is known as the "Southern Cross".

MYTH - The Confederate Battle Flag represents racism today.

FACT - The Confederate Battle Flag today finds itself in the center of much controversy and hoopla going on in several states. The cry to take this flag down is unjustified. It is very important to keep in mind that the Confederate Battle Flag was simply just that. A battle flag. It was never even a National flag, so how could it have flown over a slave nation or represented slavery or racism? This myth is continued by lack of education and ignorance. Those that villify the Confederate Battle Flag are very confused about history and have jumped upon a bandwagon with loose wheels.

MYTH - The United States Flag represented freedom.

FACT - No chance. The US flag flew over a slave nation for over 85 years! The North tolerated slavery and acknowledged it as a Division Of Labor. The North made a vast fortune on slavery and it's commodities. It wasn't until the South decided to leave the Union that the North objected. The North knew it could not survive without the Southern money. That is the true definition of hypocrisy.

MYTH - Abraham Lincoln was the Great Emancipator.

FACT - While Lincoln has went down in history as the Great Emancipator, many would not care to hear his real thoughts on people of color. Martyred President Abraham Lincoln was fervently making plans to send all freed slaves to the jungles of Central America once the war was over. Knowing that African society would never allow the slaves to return back to Africa, Lincoln also did not want the slaves in the US. He thought the jungles of Central America would be the best solution and conducive to the freed slaves best interest. The only thing that kept this from happening, was his assassination.

MYTH - The South revered slavery.

FACT - A very interesting fact on slavery is that at the time the War of 1861 -1865 officially commenced, the Southern States were actually in the process of freeing all slaves in the South. Russia had freed it's servants in 1859, and the South took great note of this. Had military intervention not been forced upon the South, a very different America would have been realized then as well as now.

MYTH - The Confederate Army was comprised of rich slave owners.

FACT - Very far from true. The vast majority of soldiers in the Confederate Army were simple men of meager income. Most of which were hard working farmers and common men. Then, as now, very few rich men ever fight a war.

MYTH - Only the North had men of color in their ranks.

FACT - Quite simply a major falsehood of history. Many blacks, both free and of their own will, joined the Confederate Army to fight for their beloved Southern home. Additionally, men of other ethnic extraction fought as well. Oriental, Mexican & Spanish men as well as Native American Indians fought with pride for the South.

Today, many men of color are members in the heritage group SCV - Sons Of Confederate Veterans. These men of color and pride rejoice in their heritage. The continued attacks on the Southern Nation, The Confederacy, and her symbols are a terrible outrage to these fine people. These attacks should be denounced with as much fervor as those who denounce the South.

MYTH - The Confederate Flags are an authorized symbol of Aryan, KKK and hate groups.

FACT - Quite the contrary. These dispicable organizations such as the KKK and Aryans have taken a hallowed piece of history, and have plagued good Southern folks and the memories of fine Confederate Soldiers that fought under the flag with their perverse agenda. IN NO WAY does the Confederate Flag represent hate or violence. Heritage groups such as the SCV battle daily the damage done to a proud nation by these hate groups. The SCV denounces all hate groups, and pridefully boast HERITAGE - NOT HATE.

MYTH - The SCV - Sons Of Confederate Veterans are a racist, hate group.

FACT - This is a blatant attack on one of the finest heritage groups ever. The SCV - Sons Of Confederate Veterans are a historical, patriotic and non-political organization comprised of descendents of Confederate Soldiers and sailors dedicated to insuring that a true history of the 1861 -1865 period is preserved and presented to the public. The SCV continues to educate the public of the memory and reputation of the Confederate soldier as well as the motives for his suffering and sacrifice.

The SCV - Sons Of Confederate Veterans are in NO WAY affiliated with, nor does it recognize or condone the terrible legacy of hate groups such as the KKK.

 

[extragreen]

"A very interesting fact on slavery is that at the time the War of 1861 -1865 officially commenced, the Southern States were actually in the process of freeing all slaves in the South"

link to credible source please?

 

[i am herdman]

I am talking about the car on the Dukes of Hazard. The toy cars are being pulled from shelves and stopped from being produced.

 

[extragreen]

Confederate States of America - Declaration of the Immediate Causes Which Induce and Justify the Secession of South Carolina from the Federal Union

http://avalon.law.yale.edu/19th_century/csa_scarsec.asp

Now then, explain to me how it wasn't about slavery......

 

[MichiganHerd]

Now then, explain to me how it wasn't about slavery......

Every state had slaves. Slavery was ultimately what the North wanted future generations to believe what this was all about. However, it was the Northern GREED, which still exists to this day. South was bringing in the dough, and the GREEDY Northern folks were wanting the money. Rebels said fvck you Yankees.

 

[extragreen]

The Declaration of Causes of Seceding States
GEORGIA | MISSISSIPPI | SOUTH CAROLINA | TEXAS | VIRGINIA


http://www.civilwar.org/education/h...auses.html?referrer=https://www.facebook.com/

 

[extragreen]

Every state had slaves. Slavery was ultimately what the North wanted future generations to believe what this was all about. However, it was the Northern GREED, which still exists to this day. South was bringing in the dough, and the GREEDY Northern folks were wanting the money. Rebels said fvck you Yankees.

That is NOT what the seceding states themselves gave as cause for secession.

 

[i am herdman]

Confederate States of America - Declaration of the Immediate Causes Which Induce and Justify the Secession of South Carolina from the Federal Union

http://avalon.law.yale.edu/19th_century/csa_scarsec.asp

Now then, explain to me how it wasn't about slavery......

So let me ask you this. Put yourself in 1861(or prior). Both North and South benefited from slavery. Southern states were producing cotton and rice. I believe SC at one time was the largest producer of rice in the world(at that time).

Now you are a legislator, leader, citizen, land owner, or whatever in a Southern state. You know have a politican(s) from a nothern state saying we are going to end this.

Well, what in the wide world of sports, did you think would happen.

North: Hey of ther Half the Country, You are now bankrupt and ruined because we say so! Oh, you can do it as long as we can get the export tax. Meanwhile we can use child labor and the Irish Mick bastards coming off the boat as slaves but not call them that.

South: Hey, that will bankrupt us. How the hell are we going to harvest all these crops that you want to charge export taxes on. Hey Abe, Massey Ferguson and John Deere don't exist yet. Can you send us some of those immigrants you call free men down here.

North: Let's negotiate in good faith. We are going to ram through the 13th Amendement whether you like it or not because you are telling us to go F ourselves over taxes. We really don't give a flip about the black slaves down there, we have our labor. Business in Businesss.

South: Go F yourself.

North: Go F yourself.

South: We will. Who is with us. These Yankee Bastards are going to bankrupt us.

North: We will block Charleston harbor just like the Brits did in Boston.

South: The Hell you Will

North: What are you going to do, leave?

South: Yep.

---------------------

You can't bankrupt half the country and not expect it. Most wars are fought over money/economics.

 

[extragreen]

So let me ask you this. Put yourself in 1861(or prior). Both North and South benefited from slavery. Southern states were producing cotton and rice. I believe SC at one time was the largest producer of rice in the world(at that time).

Now you are a legislator, leader, citizen, land owner, or whatever in a Southern state. You know have a politican(s) from a nothern state saying we are going to end this.

Well, what in the wide world of sports, did you think would happen.

North: Hey of ther Half the Country, You are now bankrupt and ruined because we say so! Oh, you can do it as long as we can get the export tax. Meanwhile we can use child labor and the Irish Mick bastards coming off the boat as slaves but not call them that.

South: Hey, that will bankrupt us. How the hell are we going to harvest all these crops that you want to charge export taxes on. Hey Abe, Massey Ferguson and John Deere don't exist yet. Can you send us some of those immigrants you call free men down here.

North: Let's negotiate in good faith. We are going to ram through the 13th Amendement whether you like it or not because you are telling us to go F ourselves over taxes. We really don't give a flip about the black slaves down there, we have our labor. Business in Businesss.

South: Go F yourself.

North: Go F yourself.

South: We will. Who is with us. These Yankee Bastards are going to bankrupt us.

North: We will block Charleston harbor just like the Brits did in Boston.

South: The Hell you Will

North: What are you going to do, leave?

South: Yep.

---------------------

You can't bankrupt half the country and not expect it. Most wars are fought over money/economics.

Free labor is hard to compete against. Thus slavery is the contention between north and south, by their own admission.

 

[Raoul Duke MU]

I am talking about the car on the Dukes of Hazard. The toy cars are being pulled from shelves and stopped from being produced.

That's taking shit too far.

 

[i am herdman]

Free labor is hard to compete against. Thus slavery is the contention between north and south, by their own admission.

What were North and South competing against? The south was agricultural based at the time. North was not. They were fighting, in large part, to a tariff. The South was the exporter of most of the Unions goods(agricultural).

 

[ThunderCat98]

I call bullshit on Michiganherd's claims:

http://m.livescience.com/13673-civil-war-anniversary-myths.html

 

[i am herdman]

You really think the north was fighting a purely noble humanitarian war?

 

[MUonium]

This country has gone bat shi* crazy. This truly is a country of the offended and political correctness.

It is almost laughable now. The country is now a melting pot of political correctness.

What's next? The Brady Bunch is too white? Sanford and Son was racist. No more All in The Family reruns?
John Wayne used guns in his movies? Can't watch a HeeHaw rerun?

What is it, next?

Sometimes I think this is a joke or something.

Who is offended?

man, a car thread. too cool! fear not fearful one, you can still buy multitudes of gen lee. i'd take front row seat to see you jump some of it into a barn or a lake or how 'bout over the grand canyon

 

[extragreen]

What were North and South competing against? The south was agricultural based at the time. North was not. They were fighting, in large part, to a tariff. The South was the exporter of most of the Unions goods(agricultural).

So, you're just going to continue to refute the written causes for secession given by the southern states themselves. You can attempt to cook it differently but no matter, slavery always tastes disgusting.

 

[WiiWii]

So let me ask you this. Put yourself in 1861(or prior). Both North and South benefited from slavery. Southern states were producing cotton and rice. I believe SC at one time was the largest producer of rice in the world(at that time).

Now you are a legislator, leader, citizen, land owner, or whatever in a Southern state. You know have a politican(s) from a nothern state saying we are going to end this.

Well, what in the wide world of sports, did you think would happen.

North: Hey of ther Half the Country, You are now bankrupt and ruined because we say so! Oh, you can do it as long as we can get the export tax. Meanwhile we can use child labor and the Irish Mick bastards coming off the boat as slaves but not call them that.

South: Hey, that will bankrupt us. How the hell are we going to harvest all these crops that you want to charge export taxes on. Hey Abe, Massey Ferguson and John Deere don't exist yet. Can you send us some of those immigrants you call free men down here.

North: Let's negotiate in good faith. We are going to ram through the 13th Amendement whether you like it or not because you are telling us to go F ourselves over taxes. We really don't give a flip about the black slaves down there, we have our labor. Business in Businesss.

South: Go F yourself.

North: Go F yourself.

South: We will. Who is with us. These Yankee Bastards are going to bankrupt us.

North: We will block Charleston harbor just like the Brits did in Boston.

South: The Hell you Will

North: What are you going to do, leave?

South: Yep.

---------------------

You can't bankrupt half the country and not expect it. Most wars are fought over money/economics.

The power of rationalization is amazing. It is clear that you would have had zero problems owning a man and raping his daughter. It just about the money....

 

[i am herdman]

So, you're just going to continue to refute the written causes for secession given by the southern states themselves. You can attempt to cook it differently but no matter, slavery always tastes disgusting.

Hey, I agree. Slavery is disgusting and a black mark on our nations' history. I think that it ended in 1865 when the dust settled. Yet, here we are discussing a rebel battle flag because of a nut whacko insane douche bag of a human shot 9 innocent god fearing good people in a church.

 

[i am herdman]

The power of rationalization is amazing. It is clear that you would have had zero problems owning a man and raping his daughter. It just about the money....

Don't be stupid. There is but one flag that flies at my house. The one that I took an oath and allegiance to defend. I also not naïve enough to sit and think that a four year war that killed a million plus people was fought because solely because folks from the New England states wanted to free the black man from some plantation in Georgia. We didn't go to Iraq either time solely to free their people either. IF that were the case we would be in Africa freeing people today from oppression.

 

[extragreen]

Hey, I agree. Slavery is disgusting and a black mark on our nations' history. I think that it ended in 1865 when the dust settled. Yet, here we are discussing a rebel battle flag because of a nut whacko insane douche bag of a human shot 9 innocent god fearing good people in a church.

The Confederate flag is not any part of my conversation. I am discussing the cause for the civil war....slavery.

 

[i am herdman]

The Confederate flag is not any part of my conversation. I am discussing the cause for the civil war....slavery.

Just think of the profit you could have made then. You wouldn't even had to pay commissions.

As for history, dig a little deeper. I am not so sure Lincoln at others ran for office saying, let's free the slaves. I am not so sure how many Yankees would have lined up to free the black men in the South. That is like saying we went into WW2 to free the Jewish people in the camps. No completely accurate. And, if you some poor white hayseed in the South you are going to protect what you feel is your home/state/etc.
Hell, most people didn't even own a slave.

I think we can all agree it worked out well pretty much for all us at the end of the day. That is why this country is great.

 

[herdit44]

Don't be stupid. There is but one flag that flies at my house. The one that I took an oath and allegiance to defend. I also not naïve enough to sit and think that a four year war that killed a million plus people was fought because solely because folks from the New England states wanted to free the black man from some plantation in Georgia. We didn't go to Iraq either time solely to free their people either. IF that were the case we would be in Africa freeing people today from oppression.

i'm starting to think you believe the union started the war...

 

[i am herdman]

i'm starting to think you believe the union started the war...

Well, yehh pretty much and a war that probably could have been avoided.

I knew a guy from Great Britain that referred to our Independence Day as Terrorist Day. You know what I did? I said you stupid green teeth subject of the whore you call a Queen and I bought the first round of drinks and we got hammered. I liked that guy.

 

[extragreen]

"Just think of the profit you could have made then. You wouldn't even had to pay commissions."

You are finally getting it. This is exactly why the war was fought over slavery.-

 

[i am herdman]

"Just think of the profit you could have made then. You wouldn't even had to pay commissions."

You are finally getting it. This is exactly why the war was fought over slavery.-

Ok, what would happen and let's use modern day WV as an example. Obama has pretty much killed or halted the coal industry in WV. Now let's say half of the country's main source of revenue was coal right now. What do you think would happen?

Oh, and those northern states loved all the cotton at low prices for their factories.

 

[MUonium]

u mean that obama who cares about whether or not coal miners die in the mine or that obama who cares whether or not your grandchildren have air to breathe or water to drink. or that obama who provided healthcare to poor wvians? seriously though, i think the coal industry has been up and down for decades like most everything else.

 

[i am herdman]

u mean that obama who cares about whether or not coal miners die in the mine or that obama who cares whether or not your grandchildren have air to breathe or water to drink. or that obama who provided healthcare to poor wvians? seriously though, i think the coal industry has been up and down for decades like most everything else.

I am trying to equate it to 1861. If coal were the entire economic fortune of half the country and all of the sudden it was shut off then it would result in the same situation. You can substitute any President you want.

Oh and do you really think that is why Obama is shutting down mining permits?

 

[MichiganHerd]

Herdman, you simply cannot argue with these liberals. They can't see that our once strong country has now diluted into a shit hole. They won't be happy until we're all wearing identical outfits to work, making the same hourly rate, while applauding two men having sex together.

It's sickening.

 

[i am herdman]

What will they do when the Muslims are offended by the American flag? Or the national anthem? Or the Mexicans are offended by the American flag.

Take it down and march to the order of the Nazis.

 

[MichiganHerd]

What will they do when the Muslims are offended by the American flag? Or the national anthem? Or the Mexicans are offended by the American flag.

Good questions.

I'm guessing something like this will have to be added to the flag. Perhaps take out the block of stars in the current flag, and insert the Muslem Brotherhood logo, with the crossing swords. Maybe make it green and red to appease Gomez.

 

[extragreen]

Ok, what would happen and let's use modern day WV as an example. Obama has pretty much killed or halted the coal industry in WV. Now let's say half of the country's main source of revenue was coal right now. What do you think would happen?

Oh, and those northern states loved all the cotton at low prices for their factories.

Irrelevant. The war was fought over slavery.

 

[HerdandHokies]

I am trying to equate it to 1861. If coal were the entire economic fortune of half the country and all of the sudden it was shut off then it would result in the same situation. You can substitute any President you want.

Oh and do you really think that is why Obama is shutting down mining permits?

You're equating a legitimate industry with chattel slavery. The comparison breaks down immediately.

 

[HerdandHokies]

Hey, I agree. Slavery is disgusting and a black mark on our nations' history. I think that it ended in 1865 when the dust settled. Yet, here we are discussing a rebel battle flag because of a nut whacko insane douche bag of a human shot 9 innocent god fearing good people in a church.

The shooting was a catalyst for things that have been building for a while. As usual in these things people will go too far and then we'll recede back to a sensible position (hopefully) after things die down.

 

[i am herdman]

Nothing is going to satisfy you all.
Son what difference does it make.

You all want to simplify it some noble cause of the war and it was not.

I am done with it. I am going to sit back and watch the country go down. The end is near my friends.

 

[riflearm2]

Rebels said fvck you Yankees.

How did that work out for you pussies?

 

[marshallsig]

T. It is clear that you would have had zero problems owning a man and raping his daughter.


Wow, you are pretty much a low life. How you get, from anything that he said, that it would be clear that he would do those things. You are a freaking nut job.

 

[ThunderCat98]

Herdman, you simply cannot argue with these liberals. They can't see that our once strong country has now diluted into a shit hole. They won't be happy until we're all wearing identical outfits to work, making the same hourly rate, while applauding two men having sex together.

It's sickening.

Says the moron that thinks the war had nothing to do with slavery.

 

[MichiganHerd]

Says the moron that thinks the war had nothing to do with slavery.

That's not what I stated, moron. Certainly, slavery was the final straw that broke the camel's back, but there were other, much broader issues in play - unfair tariffs & taxes, the federalists attempting to tell the Southern states when & how they could take a shit, and then they put into play that none of the Western territories could have slaves. Meanwhile, some Northerners were slave owners themselves, as well as shipping over poor immigrants from Europe to work for them. What a bunch of hypocrites. This was all about money, which is the root cause of many wars. South said: Fvck you Yankees (and Mets).