Iran Nuke Deal

[i am herdman]

We were just Neville Chamberlained.

The President Has no balls and neither do the congressmen who voted for it. They didn't want to do the tough thing.

A nuclear arms race has begun in the craziest place on Earth full of nutjob radicals.

This will cause a bigger war in the long run. But, hey Obama you didn't have to deal with it.

Big mistake. You can't trust those bastards.

 

[extragreen]

We were just Neville Chamberlained.

The President Has no balls and neither do the congressmen who voted for it. They didn't want to do the tough thing.

A nuclear arms race has begun in the craziest place on Earth full of nutjob radicals.

This will cause a bigger war in the long run. But, hey Obama you didn't have to deal with it.

Big mistake. You can't trust those bastards.

You can't trust the Germans.
You can't trust the Japs.
You can't trust the Chinese.
You can't trust the ruskies.

We get it, ya scaredy cat.

 

[banker6796]

Do you trust Iran and the others you listed?

 

[extragreen]

Do you trust Iran and the others you listed?

Not blindly. But certainly enough to sign agreements with. Trust but verify.

 

[i am herdman]

Not blindly. But certainly enough to sign agreements with. Trust but verify.

Yehh right.

 

[ThunderCat98]

Not blindly. But certainly enough to sign agreements with. Trust but verify.

That is the height of ignorance.

 

[herdfan429]

Not blindly. But certainly enough to sign agreements with. Trust but verify.

Which we can't do because we have to take the Iranians word for it.

 

[i am herdman]

That is the height of ignorance.

Liberal Logic In Play

 

[i am herdman]

You can always trust the nation that it is a leader in terrorism.

 

[banker6796]

On a side note, our executive management team has fallen in love with the phrase "trust, but verify". I think it is one of the most BS, double speak comments a person can utter. Trust, by its very definition, rules out the want, need or desire to verify. Trust is the belief in the reliability, strength, truth or ability of someone or something. If you have that belief, you do not need to verify unless you doubt your own judgement in placing trust in someone or something in the first place. It's a moronic phrase.

The real issue is that people feel they are being magnanimous by "granting" someone their trust when, in reality, they really don't trust them. If that's the case then don't give them that trust and have whatever verification process you want.

 

[extragreen]

"Trust but verify". A signature phrase by Reagan, who subsequently used it frequently when discussing U.S. relations with the Soviet Union. And you geniuses have just stated that this stance is unacceptable by commenting the following, and I quote:

"Yehh right."
"That is the height of ignorance."
"Which we can't do because we have to take the Iranians (*Russians*) word for it."
*not part of the quote
"Liberal Logic In Play"
"You can always trust the nation that it is a leader in terrorism (*communism*)."
"I think it is one of the most BS, double speak comments a person can utter."

Well, guess what? Either I'm right or Reagan was wrong.
I'll accept either.

 

[banker6796]

I've already given my thought on the phrase. It stands no matter who says it.

Oh, and to be completely open, you should have mentioned that Reagan used it because it was an old Russian proverb. He used it specifically when negotiating with the Russians on nuclear arms because he did not trust them.

 

[extragreen]

Yes, good ol' reagan adopted a russian proverb. 'Cause that's important to the context folks.

He trusted them enough to sign a nuclear arms agreement with them.

 

[banker6796]

But retain the right for the US to verify, something obammer didn't feel was necessary with Iran. And yes, it is very important to the context. He adopted a Russian proverb, when dealing with the Russians, to show that he understood the way they do business and the fact that while he was willing to work with them, he was going to hold them to a certain standard because he knew he couldn't completely trust them. He was basically putting them on notice by using that specific phrase. Heck, if you don't believe me there have actually been books written on his use of that phrase and why it was so brilliant in the context it was used. But I'm sure you already knew that given your solid Wayne County HS education.

 

[extragreen]

There is a verification process in the Iran agreement.

No. You don't get to declare "I think it is one of the most BS, double speak comments a person can utter." and then turn 180 degrees and defend it's chronic use by Reagan. It wasn't adopted by reagan to show the Russians anything, it was adopted to calm the fears of the American people.

“You always say that,” Gorbachev noted laughingly at the White House arms treaty signing in 1987.

“I like the sound of it,” Reagan replied.

That's how profound the context is for using the term trust but verify.

 

[banker6796]

The above pretty well sums up why you will always be nothing more than the owner of a couple of employees business. You understand nothing of the art of negotiation.

http://www.pri.org/stories/2014-03-...-ronald-reagan-important-russian-phrase-trust

You should read her book.

 

[extragreen]

The above pretty well sums up why you will always be nothing more than the owner of a couple of employees business. You understand nothing of the art of negotiation.

http://www.pri.org/stories/2014-03-...-ronald-reagan-important-russian-phrase-trust

You should read her book.

And the above is why you will always be considered a hypocrite. You approve of reagan negotiating a deal with the Russians while vilifying obama for doing the same thing with Iran.
You should look in the mirror.

 

[Raoul Duke MU]

None of it matters. We can bomb them the day after it is signed if we want to.

 

[wvkeeper(HN)]

And the above is why you will always be considered a hypocrite. You approve of reagan negotiating a deal with the Russians while vilifying obama for doing the same thing with Iran.
You should look in the mirror.

It is amazing how terrible the school systems are today.

 

[i am herdman]

"Trust but verify". A signature phrase by Reagan, who subsequently used it frequently when discussing U.S. relations with the Soviet Union. And you geniuses have just stated that this stance is unacceptable by commenting the following, and I quote:

"Yehh right."
"That is the height of ignorance."
"Which we can't do because we have to take the Iranians (*Russians*) word for it."
*not part of the quote
"Liberal Logic In Play"
"You can always trust the nation that it is a leader in terrorism (*communism*)."
"I think it is one of the most BS, double speak comments a person can utter."

Well, guess what? Either I'm right or Reagan was wrong.
I'll accept either.

Now tell me how in the wide world of sports you can trust the Iranians? Hello.....

 

[i am herdman]

Yes, good ol' reagan adopted a russian proverb. 'Cause that's important to the context folks.

He trusted them enough to sign a nuclear arms agreement with them.

And he buried them after rebuilding our military after the last incompetent Democrat was in office. The same the someone else is going to have to do after the Democrats have been in charge this time.

What a freakin' mess. The Russians already had Nukes. Why in the Hell would we facilitate a terrorist state such as Iran?

It is damn near Treasonous.

 

[extragreen]

It is amazing how terrible the school systems are today.

it's thursday

 

[extragreen]

Now tell me how in the wide world of sports you can trust the Iranians? Hello.....

Explain to us how reagan could trust the russians. Did he look someone in the eye and get a sense of his soul?

 

[extragreen]

And he buried them after rebuilding our military after the last incompetent Democrat was in office. The same the someone else is going to have to do after the Democrats have been in charge this time.

What a freakin' mess. The Russians already had Nukes. Why in the Hell would we facilitate a terrorist state such as Iran?

It is damn near Treasonous.

Yehh right.

 

[raleighherdfan]

Its also important to recognize what Reagan negotiated was an actual "Treaty". A legal agreement that was then ratified by the Senate. This is a HUGE difference when comparing what Reagan negotiated, and what the current idiot and chief is giving into.

It doesn't appear that Obummer's "agreement" with Iran has any such structure or support (by either party in Congress). This will become another "executive order" (which liberals used to hate)having no international legal standing and holds Iran accountable for nothing. Its completely absurd on so many levels. It reignites the nuclear race and places us...and our allies (do we have any left after this president?) in the cross hairs of a country that has openly demanded the death and demise of our country.

Yes....it is treasonous.

 

[herdfan429]

Rhouhani has already told his parliament not to vote on the agreement so Iran has no legal bearing to withhold its end of the agreement. Obama and Kerry negotiated not from a position of strength but they just wanted a deal to seal their foreign policy legacy. That's no way to conduct foreign policy, especially when one side wants to destroy a neighboring country and funds terrorist all over the world

 

[extragreen]

Rhouhani has already told his parliament not to vote on the agreement so Iran has no legal bearing to withhold its end of the agreement. Obama and Kerry negotiated not from a position of strength but they just wanted a deal to seal their foreign policy legacy. That's no way to conduct foreign policy, especially when one side wants to destroy a neighboring country and funds terrorist all over the world

trust but verify

 

[herdfan429]

trust but verify

What has Iran done that shows we can trust them?

 

[extragreen]

What has Iran done that shows we can trust them?

What did russia do to show we could trust them?

 

[herdfan429]

What did russia do to show we could trust them?

Did Russian premieres go in front of the politburo and tell them not to pass a treaty so the Russians wouldn't be legally bound to said agreement?

 

[banker6796]

Extra, blind support is making you look like an idiot. The differences between the Reagan Treaty and the obammer deal are simply too many to list and discuss. Key points.

The treaty with Russia was a agreement between two super powers, both with existing, extensive nuclear capabilities. We got them to the table thanks to investments in the "Star Wars" initiative, which gave us a negotiating position of strength. It was an agreement that aided in world stability by reducing the likelihood of nuclear conflict.

Now, how does that compare to what obammer has, or hasn't, accomplished with this deal?

 

[extragreen]

Extra, blind support is making you look like an idiot. The differences between the Reagan Treaty and the obammer deal are simply too many to list and discuss. Key points.

The treaty with Russia was a agreement between two super powers, both with existing, extensive nuclear capabilities. We got them to the table thanks to investments in the "Star Wars" initiative, which gave us a negotiating position of strength. It was an agreement that aided in world stability by reducing the likelihood of nuclear conflict.

Now, how does that compare to what obammer has, or hasn't, accomplished with this deal?

It looks about the same as blind obstruction. And whatever the agreement did, it did by agreeing. It was obtained by a compromise. You guys don't want a compromise like that, you want the U S to dictate all points. Not gonna happen and you know it. Stop being stubborn. You're looking more and more like the the way you view Iranians.

 

[extragreen]

Here's my point of view.
I am willing to go to extraordinary measures to see that the military gets the opportunity to
enjoy this.......


and families don't have to suffer things like this......


or worse.

 

[herdfan429]

It looks about the same as blind obstruction. And whatever the agreement did, it did by agreeing. It was obtained by a compromise. You guys don't want a compromise like that, you want the U S to dictate all points. Not gonna happen and you know it. Stop being stubborn. You're looking more and more like the the way you view Iranians.

What did the US get out of this "compromise"?

 

[extragreen]

What did the US get out of this "compromise"?

What did the U S lose?
I can tell you what I hope it accomplishes. Iran has been under sanctions for around 30 years. It has hurt their economy. If I remember correctly it has kept their unemployment rate around 10% on average for maybe 20 years. I'm hoping that with the lifting of the sanctions, that the 20, 30, and 40 year olds there realize what it's like to live without those sanctions, with increased prosperity, and resist the Iranian government in the future if said govt wants to break the agreement and suffer economic sanctions once again.

 

[banker6796]

That's a Pollyanna view extra. The Iranians had it much better in the 70s and decided their own fate. They have had opportunities to alter their situation and have elected not to. The only thing this agreement does is strengthen, financially and militarily, a self proclaimed enemy of the US.

You know, it's funny that so many people claim that obammer is Muslim and working to tear this country apart. I try not to believe that's even possible, but his actions certainly add credence to that "extreme" view. He has shown to be, at a minimum, a Muslim sympathizer and at a maximum, a Muslim ally.

 

[herdfan429]

What did the U S lose?
I can tell you what I hope it accomplishes. Iran has been under sanctions for around 30 years. It has hurt their economy. If I remember correctly it has kept their unemployment rate around 10% on average for maybe 20 years. I'm hoping that with the lifting of the sanctions, that the 20, 30, and 40 year olds there realize what it's like to live without those sanctions, with increased prosperity, and resist the Iranian government in the future if said govt wants to break the agreement and suffer economic sanctions once again.

So we gained hope? Thats an excellent negotiating position.

 

[extragreen]

Our actual negotiating position is this....we can destroy Iran. They know it, we know it. People like me would rather not have to do that. But you guys continue to wallow in your fear and the insanity of "Obama is an ally or sympathizer of Muslims." Bunch of rush Limbaughs.

 

[i am herdman]

Explain to us how reagan could trust the russians. Did he look someone in the eye and get a sense of his soul?

They already had the freakin' nukes. They could have destroyed the world 10 times over just by themselves. Plus, Reagan had a plan to take them down and it worked.

Obama isn't going to take down anyone.

 

[herdfan429]

The difference is you don't take their threats of destroying Israel seriously. Of course we can destroy Iran no one has said otherwise. We didn't need a bogus deal to let the world know that. Iran gets billions in cash to fund God knows what and we give them technology to advance their ballistic missile program.