Irony
- Thread starter GK4Herd
- Start date
I agree. Let's remove anything and everything associated with Clinton and Sanders. Good idea.
We could start with Hillary's book off the shelves. She lost (to an amateur). Nuff said. We really don't need to read her excuses.
For the record, I'm against the removal of these statues. You can't erase history and you can't sweep the past under the rug. Not a single time have I looked upon a confederate statue and thought..."This makes me wish for the return of slavery." Just another example of ideologues waging battle on the field of symbolism. Unyielding absolutism on both sides is what gives rise to this kind of stuff. I don't think liberals are as offended by the existence of the statues as much as they are elated by the angst their removal creates among the conservatives.
not really, only to the point it stirs discussion on just how stupid the left really is.
I don't see it as erasing history. The statues don't have any affect on me whether they stay or go. But I can also understand that those statue's may have a different effect on African Americans. Usually when a statue is put up it's to honor the person or their cause. It's not about erasing history, it's about not honoring it.
I don't personally give a shit. But I can also have the emotional intelligence to understand why many others would give a shit.
Just what are theee statues celebrating? Robert E Lee was a traitor to this country. He wanted to rid his home state of all blacks. He was urged to speak out against the violence committed by the KKK, but he refused to do so. He severely physically punished many of his slaves. He fought for the right to own black humans as personal property. He forced a specific religion on his "property."
What exactly are you guys celebrating with statues of these guys? These people aren't to be celebrated.
This is dumbfounding to me. How is it erasing history or sweeping it under the rug?
Should we have statues and celebrations of Hitler? Nobody is wanting to forget about this history, stop teaching it, or hide it. But why would we allow schools, statues, etc. to be celebrated of these types of people?
Again, what exactly are we celebrating about many of these historical figures?
Can you imagine being an eight year old black student going to school named after a guy like Lee who felt as he did about blacks and did what he did to them?
If these statues were so offensive, why weren't they removed during the Obama administration?
Why did u s Marines topple the Saddam Hussein statue in Baghdad? Surely the Iraqis need to remember there history as well.
I don't expect anyone on the right to understand. The right has no compassion and the people on the right only care for themselves. Republicans are the "me" party. Democrats are the "we" party.
I believe I am safe in saying that NO pigeons were consulted or polled prior to the beginning of the mass removal of said statues. Irony would a mass defecation event perpetrated by millions of angry pigeons on the next major protest rally by the usual suspects: professional left wing fellow travelers, malcontents, stoned since the 60s hippies, hired protesters, idle illegals with nothing better to do while waiting for next month's welfare checks, SNAP benefits, and section 8 housing vouchers to come out, etc.!!
I see your point. And honestly, you're making me rethink this a little. But I don't think the issue is as simple as confederate=slavery=bad. There's a line you have to be careful with. Do we now remove the Jefferson Memorial and Washington Monument from DC? They both owned slaves and felt blacks inferior. A statue of Lincoln was recently vandalized in Chicago. You'd think he represents everything that is right about that era.
I don't think the example of Hitler is particularly relevant either. The confederate soldiers were products of their time. Hitler was not. Genocide of an entire race wasn't the prevailing mindset during the 1930s and 40s. Yet slavery existed for centuries prior to us finally getting it right. Do we remove the statues and ruins in Italy that depict the era of the Roman Empire? Entire armies defeated in battle were enslaved into a life of servitude. Do we remove the statues of Columbus? Pizarro? Cortes? These guys were pretty brutal in their treatment of the Native Americans.
When I see statues of 150 year old men, I don't suddenly swell with pride of their heritage. I reflect how far we came since those days. If anything the statues are a reminder of the fact that even though we've had a troubled past we decided to do the right thing and moved in the right direction. The truth be told I fear and abhor the confederate flag waving people in real time much more than I do the statues of dead white guys. The guys that fly their flags from the beds of their truck are almost certainly glorifying hatred. But even then I want them to have the right to do it. If anything it provides us with a marker of where the idiots are,
I see your point. I really do. But I still contend that the issue is being fought not so much for the hatred of these statues as its being fought for the hatred the two ideologies have for each other. None of this was even an issue until the hatred between the liberals and conservatives reached the boiling point. No...this is about two groups trying to piss each other off. (At least among white Americans) If it were about the true convictions that people have against what these statues represent it would have been an issue decades ago.
I agree. I have always wondered why a guy in Ohio would wave a rebel flag when the same guys may have killed his family members 150 years ago. Second i find it curious that nobody seemed offended by this even when Obama was Pres. Suddenly Trump takes over and the %$&* hits the fan. It seems like some may be using this issue to stir up trouble.Just my view.
Jefferson was a president and leader of this country. Many presidents have black marks on their resumes either in professional or personal relations, Jefferson included. But he was a president who had a huge impact on the foundation of this country.
Robert E. Lee's biggest contribution to history is being a traitor to this country. He also had some other serious indiscretions as a member of this country. So, again I ask, what the fvck are we celebrating with people like this guy having statues and schools named after him? Are we celebrating his role as a leader of a traitorous movement? His promotion of violence against blacks? His promotion of exile for all blacks from his home state? What the fvck are we celebrating with this guy? I've asked this question in discussions in-person with people and previously on here, and I've never been given an answer.
Strong waves of discrimination against Jews were around far before Hitler. Hitler simply took it to another level. His actions - the strong discrimination - were a "product of his time."
The same holds true for the treatment of natives by Chris Columbus and friends, which is why there has been plenty of people speaking out against Columbus Day and celebrating him.
Sorry, but these statues and naming of buildings weren't done to remind us how far we have made it since the actions of these vile characters in history. They were made and named to celebrate these characters in history and their actions, the biggest of which should not be celebrated.
We have evolved a lot since the glory days of the KKK. Why don't we have KKK statues to remind us of our progress since that time?
Yeah, I'm shocked this movement wasn't stronger 60 years ago when blacks legally could be banned from restaurants and hotels. I'm shocked this movement wasn't stronger 30 years ago when the majority of Americans were still against interracial marriage. I'm shocked this movement wasn't stronger 10 years ago when the majority of Americans were against gay marriage. I'm shocked this movement wasn't stronger last night when a large percentage of Americans were against Muslims.
Just when did you expect this movement to get enough support to actually have progress? This country has had strong bigotry, legally, against blacks until just decades ago. It continues to have bigotry against gays.
Outside of the coasts and major cities, we are a country overwhelmingly full of bigoted rednecks with antiquated beliefs. This movement would have been squashed easily just a few decades ago.
I can't fathom why this is so hard for some to understand.
Cheeto has made repeated, strong, discriminatory rhetoric and attempts at policies for two years. That rhetoric has resulted in a rise in hate crimes, hate speech, and support of those things.
As a result, the opposite force has had to be stronger in their resistance against that rhetoric and actions. They look at those people who support Robert E. Lee statues and see them for what they are; bigots who are too cowardly to express their true feelings in a more modern world that we are in. In order to keep those cowardly bigots from spreading and marching in places like Charlottesville, a stronger force of resistance must be used.
Obama didn't promote hate, violence, and bigotry. Hence, there was no reason for anything. Cheeto has promoted those things, so in order for history to not repeat itself, you'll see a strong opposite force.
Rifle, I usually dig your logic, but I think it is obvious this is the left wing flavor of the month for a reason. It's a valid point: where was the outrage for the past eight years? I guess they were too busy doing the victory formation.
I have given this a lot of thought and see it as a nuanced thing. I don't want every Confederate statue taken down. The ones put up to glorify Confederate leaders, the ones put up in the 20th Century to give the finger to blacks, take them down. But there's another class of statue I support. The ones put up simply to honor the Confederate dead, that were put up for a couple of decades after the war, they need to remain. Most of the dead on both sides were just pawns for powerful men, same as in all wars. Most were poor and just fvxked. Hell, you could buy your way out of the draft. Many joined to fight just for a pay day. To a thinking person that's honest with history those memorials should be a testament that war sucks. And many of those were put up as part of an effort at getting over the grief of the war and moving one. I don't know if Germany has any memorials to their poor bastards that had little to no choice to fight under Hitler, but they should.
I have given this a lot of thought and see it as a nuanced thing. I don't want every Confederate statue taken down. The ones put up to glorify Confederate leaders, the ones put up in the 20th Century to give the finger to blacks, take them down. But there's another class of statue I support. The ones put up simply to honor the Confederate dead, that were put up for a couple of decades after the war, they need to remain. Most of the dead on both sides were just pawns for powerful men, same as in all wars. Most were poor and just fvxked. Hell, you could buy your way out of the draft. Many joined to fight just for a pay day. To a thinking person that's honest with history those memorials should be a testament that war sucks. And many of those were put up as part of an effort at getting over the grief of the war and moving one. I don't know if Germany has any memorials to their poor bastards that had little to no choice to fight under Hitler, but they should.
Like I said, I'm not bothered whether the statues stay or go. It's you Trumpanzees that are crying that your heroes are being removed.
Imagine the quantity of pigeon crap per statue is about equal among confederate statues and those of lefty heroes, FDR, JFK, RCB, MLK, etc., etc. Would make for an interesting empirical study to see how discerning the pigeons really are!!
