Baseball is in bed with Draft King but ...Pete Rose is banned for life
Isn’t it odd
- Thread starter rammer101
- Start date
Pete Rose's biggest issue (bigger than betting on games) was that he was a dick about it for 30+ years... If he would have owned it when he got caught, agreed to never do it again, and been contrite/apologetic, he would probably be in the hall by now.
I still think he gets in eventually, but not until after his death. The MLB owners/execs won't give him the satisfaction while he's still kickin.
I still think he gets in eventually, but not until after his death. The MLB owners/execs won't give him the satisfaction while he's still kickin.
Oh my god this is so true. If he'd have apologized even 10 years after it happened, that would have been 20 years ago at this point, and nobody would care. He never let people forgive him. When you take a lie to the grave, people tend to make you live that lie all the way down.
Not on games in which you are playing/coaching.
There is almost 0% chance that other players, managers, coaches weren't betting as well. Athletes are too competitive to think otherwise. Look at Jordan.
That's a good point. Plus, we're also talking about the sport that had a huge steroid issue and did nothing about it, and now all of its record books are garbage and its history lost its meaning and connection to the present, resulting in a generation and counting of Americans growing up not considering it the pastime anymore.
Baseball, with all of it's unwritten rules and fraudulent records and horrible alumni and complete lack of organizational balance and out of control spending.............. I could do this for a long rant.... And I LOVE baseball.
Point is, Rose is one of the 5 best baseball players of all time. He was an unathletic guy who made himself the most successful hitter of all time by sheer force of will and commitment to training. He should be a unanimous hall of famer, but he's also a bastard of a man. Now the MLB is swimming in hypocrisy and will eventually put Rose in, after he's dead.
Point is, Rose is one of the 5 best baseball players of all time. He was an unathletic guy who made himself the most successful hitter of all time by sheer force of will and commitment to training. He should be a unanimous hall of famer, but he's also a bastard of a man. Now the MLB is swimming in hypocrisy and will eventually put Rose in, after he's dead.
I was walking through the Mirage in Las Vegas years ago with my boys. I suddenly see a table and no one around but the guy sitting at the table and a few people for security...it was Pete Rose. I did a double take and stopped and bought his book. He talked to me for 5-10 minutes like he’s known me his entire life. I was an officer in the Army at the time and didn’t say a word about it, but he asked me if I was and said he could tell by the way I carried myself. Meeting and talking to Pete will be something I’ll never forget.
2 points:
1) Did Pete place bets on baseball with a LEGAL sports book??? (The answer is no!) He claims he bet on his own team as a manager. No way to verify that...but EVEN if that's the (doubtful) truth, if he's got a large bet on a particular game, are his short term decisions on utilizing his pitching staff affected by his 'investment' at the expense of the long season or the pitchers' health? HUGE conflict of interests.
2) Rifle is correct Petey is not in the top 20 players when accounting for his defense. As a hitter, I could buy that argument if you bought me enough IPA's.
Defensively, Sparky couldn't have used him at all at any position with the Big Red Machine unless Dave Concepción wasn't the best defensive SS of that era. (Sorry Ozzie Smith fans, but Davey got his body in front of balls that OS would have to make gymnatistic moves to get to. Ozz did not have near as good as arm & really wasn't a better hitter either.) No Davey, then you can't hide Pete at third...and you aint' gonna replace the Big Dog @ 1st, nor Joe Morgan @ 2nd, nor Ken Griffey, Cesar Geronimo, nor George Foster ( who over 4 or so seasons was the most devastating power hitters & not bad at LF.
1) Did Pete place bets on baseball with a LEGAL sports book??? (The answer is no!) He claims he bet on his own team as a manager. No way to verify that...but EVEN if that's the (doubtful) truth, if he's got a large bet on a particular game, are his short term decisions on utilizing his pitching staff affected by his 'investment' at the expense of the long season or the pitchers' health? HUGE conflict of interests.
2) Rifle is correct Petey is not in the top 20 players when accounting for his defense. As a hitter, I could buy that argument if you bought me enough IPA's.
Defensively, Sparky couldn't have used him at all at any position with the Big Red Machine unless Dave Concepción wasn't the best defensive SS of that era. (Sorry Ozzie Smith fans, but Davey got his body in front of balls that OS would have to make gymnatistic moves to get to. Ozz did not have near as good as arm & really wasn't a better hitter either.) No Davey, then you can't hide Pete at third...and you aint' gonna replace the Big Dog @ 1st, nor Joe Morgan @ 2nd, nor Ken Griffey, Cesar Geronimo, nor George Foster ( who over 4 or so seasons was the most devastating power hitters & not bad at LF.
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Jordan wasn't betting on his own team. He bet on literally everything else however.
Rose isn't a top 20 of all time. Good hitter? Yeah. But there are plenty ahead of him at his position.
Mike Trout isn't even finished with his career and is on course to be the greatest of all time.
Rose's career - and amazing performance - coincided with the rise of Dexedrine in MLB. Not that I'd accuse that guy of doing anything off the books. (Of course Greenies, like most PEDs, were legal in MLB until 2007.)
Rose is definitely top 5 all time. What he did with his consistency will never be approached. All Star at 5 different positions. Greatest competitor ever. He may not have been a 5 tool player but his overall career is amazing!!
This is an often overlooked point, and why baseball is impossible to compare eras within itself... Hell, guys in the 1900's and teens used to do a bump mid-game to "keep their energy up." They were so high they didn't realize they had pitched 27 innings in a five day span, lol
You’re also clueless. Find a reputable ranking that has Rose in the top 5 all time. Hell, find a reputable ranking that has him in the top 10 all time. Hell, find a reputable ranking that has him in the top 15. Hell, I bet there aren’t even two that have him in the top 20.
Personally, what Rose did pales in comparison to Bonds, McGuire, etc. Those guys juiced and everyone knew it. As a result, their use of banned substances did affect the outcome of games. That's why I don't think either belong in the HOF or consider Bonds the legit HR king.
What Rose did may have been wrong, but it didn't affect the outcome of a game.
He should be in the hall based on his on field accomplishments. jmho
What Rose did may have been wrong, but it didn't affect the outcome of a game.
He should be in the hall based on his on field accomplishments. jmho
Betting on games you are playing/coaching/managing inherently effects the outcome of the game. Rose bet for and against the Reds when he was manager... Maybe he didn't pull a pitcher who was in trouble? Maybe he played a lineup he knew was bad? etc.
In Rose's defense, in modern professional sports, we have teams tanking intentionally to secure draft picks, which I don't see as being much different. I'd even roll that out to the popular practice of "workload management," like you see in the NBA, where stars take off certain games that their organization deems okay to lose. You've long seen the same thing in MLB, with coaches making lineups based on the pitcher, and if your #5-guy is on the mound, maybe a couple of your best players get the day off as well.
It goes against the idea of competitive sports, and its an awful trap for the paying fans. I know when I was a kid, on more than a few occasions, we'd drive all the way to Cincinnati for a Reds game, only to find out most of the stars were getting the day off. (Never Barry Larkin though, that guy always played.)
It goes against the idea of competitive sports, and its an awful trap for the paying fans. I know when I was a kid, on more than a few occasions, we'd drive all the way to Cincinnati for a Reds game, only to find out most of the stars were getting the day off. (Never Barry Larkin though, that guy always played.)
Sorry that you had to miss Todd Benzinger and Mariano Duncan.
Certainly could happen but I think if that happened players would catch on and bring it up to management. It would be hard to cover up something that blatant without someone figuring it out quickly. jmo
Pete Rose will forever be one of the greatest baseball players to play on the diamond. You guys comparing Mike trout to Pete Rose is just like the Lebron Jordan Debate.. it’s not worth it.. not a single bit of comparison to the two.
You won’t find a single reputable baseball analyst/professional who will say that Rose was better than Trout. It’s not even close, just like it’s not even close that Rose is a top 5 player of all time.
Rose would come in at #5, but finished #6. Rifle edged him out for the 5th spot.
lol, I'm the only one who said that in this thread, and it's based on sports writers who know the game better, who've said that.
Sorry people are crappin' on your guy. He was very good, but not as good as you may want to believe he is.
Bleacher Report did a ranking of the best players ever based on WAR, fWAR, and the traditional baseball stats (BA, HR, RBI, OBP, FIP for position players/ Wins, ERA, Saves, Ks for pitchers)... Pete Rose was not in the top 25. He was an honorable mention and they didn't even include guys still playing, so Trout wasn't on the list.
Outside issues were not factored in (steroids, juiced balls, Black Sox, gambling, etc) just pure numbers.
Their top 10 MLB players of all time based on the above criteria...
1. Babe Ruth
2. Willie Mays
3. Barry Bonds
4. Ted Williams
5. Hank Aaron
6. Ty Cobb
7. Lou Gehrig
8. Walter Johnson
9. Cy Young
10. Rogers Hornsby
Outside issues were not factored in (steroids, juiced balls, Black Sox, gambling, etc) just pure numbers.
Their top 10 MLB players of all time based on the above criteria...
1. Babe Ruth
2. Willie Mays
3. Barry Bonds
4. Ted Williams
5. Hank Aaron
6. Ty Cobb
7. Lou Gehrig
8. Walter Johnson
9. Cy Young
10. Rogers Hornsby
Bonds on there is laughable. He juiced most of his career. If he would have continued his head would have exploded it was getting so big from the roids.
I agree with you... But their analysis was numbers only.
Bonds didn't start juicing until 1998. By then he had already won three NL MVPs; three gold gloves; and seven silver sluggers. If his career had ended in 1998, Bonds would be a .290 hitter with 411 home runs, 1,917 hits, 1,216 RBI, and a .966 OPS. Those are HOFer numbers all by themselves.
I hated Bonds but he was an unbelievable talent.
I always looked at Pete Rose as another Ty Cobb, not necessarily a likable person, but one who was driven to succeed by inner passion and competitive spirit. I would guess that some of the old timers that got into the Hall did some things that would disqualify them in today's world, but most of their bad behavior was covered up by the media. Pete just happen to live in the wrong era.
