John D. Rockefeller

[andy4theherd]

was doing some light reading this morning and found my way to Rockefeller. after the Standard Oil Company was deemed a monopoly and split up in 1911 he was worth $333 BILLION (adjusted for inflation to match the $ in 2007) after selling off to individual companies. to put that in context, Bill Gates (until just recently) was the richest man in the world worth $79.2 billion...

the Rockefeller family tree was very interesting. Vice President, several state Governors, Senators, House Delegates, and numerous bank presidents (Chase, JP Morgan, ect). most moving to different states and even changing political affiliations to win elections.

he is credited with donating over $530 million to different charities and research.

"What makes him problematic—and why he continues to inspire ambivalent reactions—is that his good side was every bit as good as his bad side was bad. Seldom has history produced such a contradictory figure."
-Biographer Ron Chernow

 

[Rock98Dog]

I've seen reports as high as $700 billion. It was claimed that he, JP Morgan and Carnegie were worth in excess of $1 trillion combined in 1910 (inflation adjusted).

 

[herdit44]

the men who built america on history was a pretty good miniseries. in it they talk about how at one point rockefeller, carnegie, and morgan's net worth was some insanely crazy percentage of the world's wealth, i wish i could remember the exact statistic.

 

[i am herdman]

the men who built america on history was a pretty good miniseries on history. in it they talk about how at one point rockefeller, carnegie, and morgan's net worth was some insanely crazy percentage of the world's wealth, i wish i could remember the exact statistic.

I saw that show. I can't remember the number but it was insane how much of the world net worth they controlled.

 

[Rock98Dog]

Another thing on that series they mentioned was that the three of them and Edison controlled 70% of US manufacturing.

 

[andy4theherd]

the men who built america on history was a pretty good miniseries. in it they talk about how at one point rockefeller, carnegie, and morgan's net worth was some insanely crazy percentage of the world's wealth, i wish i could remember the exact statistic.

using the reported $336 billion, in 1913 was 2% of the ENTIRE US economy.

 

[raleighherdfan]

was doing some light reading this morning and found my way to Rockefeller. after the Standard Oil Company was deemed a monopoly and split up in 1911 he was worth $333 BILLION (adjusted for inflation to match the $ in 2007) after selling off to individual companies. to put that in context, Bill Gates (until just recently) was the richest man in the world worth $79.2 billion...

the Rockefeller family tree was very interesting. Vice President, several state Governors, Senators, House Delegates, and numerous bank presidents (Chase, JP Morgan, ect). most moving to different states and even changing political affiliations to win elections.

he is credited with donating over $530 million to different charities and research.

"What makes him problematic—and why he continues to inspire ambivalent reactions—is that his good side was every bit as good as his bad side was bad. Seldom has history produced such a contradictory figure."
-Biographer Ron Chernow

These guys truly viewed business as the ultimate competitive endeavor. They believed in crushing their competitor to oblivion at all costs and bankrupting them beyond recovery. I am not sure even a young Bill Gates had the stones to do what they pulled off if he had been allowed.

 

[ohio herd]

These guys truly viewed business as the ultimate competitive endeavor. They believed in crushing their competitor to oblivion at all costs and bankrupting them beyond recovery. I am not sure even a young Bill Gates had the stones to do what they pulled off if he had been allowed.

cause they were busy making money not hugging trees and trying to control what everyone said and did.

 

[extragreen]

cause they were busy making money not hugging trees and trying to control what everyone said and did.

Which was all good, right?

 

[ohio herd]

Which was all good, right?

what is this? some random pic of trees? LOL

 

[extragreen]

what is this? some random pic of trees? LOL

It's the result of those non tree hugging capitalists you cons idolize. The pic above is from Wisconsin. The one below is from WV.

 

[wvkeeper(HN)]

Chernow's bio is really fascinating.

 

[i am herdman]

Thanks Greed.

From the guy who made a living on building stuff from cut down trees.

 

[andy4theherd]

the men who built america on history was a pretty good miniseries. in it they talk about how at one point rockefeller, carnegie, and morgan's net worth was some insanely crazy percentage of the world's wealth, i wish i could remember the exact statistic.

watching it now (lost interest in the Louisville game).

a lot of Donald Trump commentary...hmmmm

 

[andy4theherd]

Thanks Greed.

From the guy who made a living on building stuff from cut down trees.

in before, "they died of natural causes"...

 

[extragreen]

Thanks Greed.

From the guy who made a living on building stuff from cut down trees.

You're welcome Liar.

See if you can tell the difference between the story told by the pictures I posted and this:

The company I purchase most of my products from holds FSC chain of custody certified by Rainforest Alliance, an independent, non-governmental organization with the published aims of working to conserve biodiversity and ensure sustainable livelihoods by transforming land-use practices, business practices and consumer behavior. By buying products with an FSC label you are supporting the growth of responsible forest management worldwide.

_____tree huggers

 

[Rock98Dog]

You're welcome Liar.

See if you can tell the difference between the story told by the pictures I posted and this:

The company I purchase most of my products from holds FSC chain of custody certified by Rainforest Alliance, an independent, non-governmental organization with the published aims of working to conserve biodiversity and ensure sustainable livelihoods by transforming land-use practices, business practices and consumer behavior. By buying products with an FSC label you are supporting the growth of responsible forest management worldwide.

_____tree huggers

That's a load of crap, even you should know that. Over 5,000 companies are certified, but at the end of the day every one of them processes trees that were slaughtered for the benefit of man. FSC has only been around for a little more than 20 years. Companies like Weyerhaeuser have been doing forest management for over 100 years. As a matter of fact, it was the large, high volume mills that pioneered forestry management because it was necessary to sustain their business.

Using 100+ year old pictures to make your point is just stupid. Growth was so thick then that you had to clear land to even establish a homestead almost anywhere but the plains. Your WV site was most likely a clearing for a mine community where all those trees were killed on site and used to build the structures shown.

 

[extragreen]

That's a load of crap, even you should know that. Over 5,000 companies are certified, but at the end of the day every one of them processes trees that were slaughtered for the benefit of man. FSC has only been around for a little more than 20 years. Companies like Weyerhaeuser have been doing forest management for over 100 years. As a matter of fact, it was the large, high volume mills that pioneered forestry management because it was necessary to sustain their business.

Using 100+ year old pictures to make your point is just stupid. Growth was so thick then that you had to clear land to even establish a homestead almost anywhere but the plains. Your WV site was most likely a clearing for a mine community where all those trees were killed on site and used to build the structures shown.

EXACTLY what is a load of crap?

Seriously, forest product suppliers cut down trees?

Of course timber companies pioneered forest management, AFTER the land east of the mississipi had been timbered and they started seeing their potential for profits disappear.

"Your WV site was most likely a clearing for a mine community"

Of course it was. Like this one, must've been a heckuva mine......

 

[andy4theherd]

so is it safe to assume based on EG's 100+ year old pics that there are no more forests?

 

[Raoul Duke MU]

Using 100+ year old pictures to make your point is just stupid. Growth was so thick then that you had to clear land to even establish a homestead almost anywhere but the plains. Your WV site was most likely a clearing for a mine community where all those trees were killed on site and used to build the structures shown.

It's not often I defend EG, but you do not know your WV history. WV was clear-cut to ever-living shit. It took man about 50 years to almost destroy one of the great forests of the world. I only say "almost" because there are a few stands of virgin forest left, like maybe 500 total acres out of 15 million acres. If you have been to one of those small areas, it is nothing like the rest of the forest you now see, it's a whole different ecosystem. Also of particular note is the fires. Have you ever been to Dolly Sods? That area was once covered in not only the greatest red spruce forest in the world, but also with humus up to ten feet deep. With the forest cover gone, that eventually burned from sparks from locomotives and sawmills. It burned away the soil too, all the way down to the rocks. That's why there are those weird places up there with flat rocky ground where there should be forest.

TL/DR version: man raped the shit out of the great Eastern forests, unless you know exactly where to look you have never seen a real Eastern US forest.

 

[i am herdman]

You're welcome Liar.

See if you can tell the difference between the story told by the pictures I posted and this:

The company I purchase most of my products from holds FSC chain of custody certified by Rainforest Alliance, an independent, non-governmental organization with the published aims of working to conserve biodiversity and ensure sustainable livelihoods by transforming land-use practices, business practices and consumer behavior. By buying products with an FSC label you are supporting the growth of responsible forest management worldwide.

_____tree huggers

Well it is still a damn tree and you made products from a tree.

 

[GeauxHerd]

It's the result of those non tree hugging capitalists you cons idolize. The pic above is from Wisconsin. The one below is from WV.

Looks like $ to me (and people earning a living wage)

 

[herdfan06]

Looks like $ to me (and people earning a living wage)

Same with this.

 

[extragreen]

Well it is still a damn tree and you made products from a tree.

Of course, your logic can be summed up with the equation: apple = dog = run

 

[Rock98Dog]

The "virgin forest" moniker always throws me. Trees have a life cycle, just like everything else. Forest fires have wiped clean millions of acres all over the U.S. Hundreds of times throughout history. Fires destroy the underlying ecosystem as much as any logging operation.

Here's the facts though, we have more standing timber in every region of the U.S. than we had 100 years ago, even while increasing our population by 200%. Here's about the most comprehensive report you would want to read on forestry. It's from 2012 and has all kinds of cool info.

http://www.fia.fs.fed.us/library/brochures/docs/2012/ForestFacts_1952-2012_English.pdf

 

[Raoul Duke MU]

No shit we have more than 100 years ago, the great clear cut was almost over. No where to go but up from the bottom. Let me also guess without clicking your link that the area of protected/reserved forest land has greatly increased in the last 100 years...amirite?

You do know there is a difference in the life cycle of individual trees and an entire ecosystem, right? And that fire has a different effect on the floor of a healthy forest and a dead, dry one?

And how does your reply refute the claim that there was little to zero concern for environmental impacts vs the almighty dollar during the American industrial revolution and expansion? Especially in WV, since that is where you and I sort of got diverted to?

 

[Rock98Dog]

No, the amount of protected land is not the driver. Reserved land makes up only 10% of total forested land in the U.S.

And yes, I know there is a difference between an ecosystem and a tree. Chances are that over the course of thousands, or millions, of years, the area that is now WV has been burned to a crisp several times, frozen under several feet of ice, had dinosaurs strolling through tropical vegetation, and everything in between. Therefore, the whole virgin forest thing is bunk. The ecosystem is always changing. Yep, man screwed with the cycle a bit for a short (relatively) time, but it will be what ever it's going to be in the future after we're gone and that thing it becomes will be the thing it was going to become whether or not we had ever been here.

 

[extragreen]

Yep, man screwed with the cycle a bit for a short (relatively) time, but it will be what ever it's going to be in the future after we're gone and that thing it becomes will be the thing it was going to become whether or not we had ever been here.

i.e. we can do anything we want, avoid responsibility for everything, and in the end it will all work out all the same in a few hundreds of thousands or millions of years.

 

[andy4theherd]

i.e. we can do anything we want, avoid responsibility for everything, and in the end it will all work out all the same in a few hundreds of thousands or millions of years.

i think he is saying "we" (as a species) are a hell of a lot less significant in the grand scheme of this planet than a lot of "experts" want to believe...

 

[Raoul Duke MU]

Blah words blah

And none of that answers the assertion from EG that during the robber baron era great wealth was amassed by a few men who gave zero fvcks about the environmental impacts of their actions. So can I assume you are still claiming scenes like the pics posted by EG were only in clearing for a farm or a mine? Because you are still dancing around that claim.

 

[raleighherdfan]

Where are the pictures taken from?

Link?

 

[i am herdman]

And none of that answers the assertion from EG that during the robber baron era great wealth was amassed by a few men who gave zero fvcks about the environmental impacts of their actions. So can I assume you are still claiming scenes like the pics posted by EG were only in clearing for a farm or a mine? Because you are still dancing around that claim.

I am kind of glad they didn't give a flip. They were building a great country at the time. If they had to worry about the fruit bats we would still be stuck at Plymouth Rock.

 

[Raoul Duke MU]

I am kind of glad they didn't give a flip. They were building a great country at the time. If they had to worry about the fruit bats we would still be stuck at Plymouth Rock.

I wish certain areas had been preserved. But no one thought that way back then. Then again this was the same society that put children to work in coal mines and steel mills.

 

[extragreen]

i think he is saying "we" (as a species) are a hell of a lot less significant in the grand scheme of this planet than a lot of "experts" want to believe...

You can think what you want, but what he said was that we will have zero impact regarding the condition of this planet, as if we had never been here.

 

[GeauxHerd]

No, the amount of protected land is not the driver. Reserved land makes up only 10% of total forested land in the U.S.

And yes, I know there is a difference between an ecosystem and a tree. Chances are that over the course of thousands, or millions, of years, the area that is now WV has been burned to a crisp several times, frozen under several feet of ice, had dinosaurs strolling through tropical vegetation, and everything in between. Therefore, the whole virgin forest thing is bunk. The ecosystem is always changing. Yep, man screwed with the cycle a bit for a short (relatively) time, but it will be what ever it's going to be in the future after we're gone and that thing it becomes will be the thing it was going to become whether or not we had ever been here.

Injuns also clear cutted the shit out of America as well and central america. Look up the Mayans and Pahokia